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William Maley

BMW News: BMW M Exec: Not So Bright Future For Manuals, Horsepower Limit

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It seems some changes are coming to BMW's M division based on recent comments from the head of the division, Frank van Meel.

 

First up is transmissions. van Meel tells Autocar that DCT dual-clutch and automatic transmissions have a bright future for M cars. Not so much for the manual transmission as sales are declining.

 

“From a technical standpoint, the future doesn’t look bright for manual gearboxes. The DCT and auto ’boxes are faster and they have better fuel consumption. It’s difficult to say we’ll stick to the manual, but we still have a big fan community for manuals and we are not going to take away something the customer wants to have,” said van Meel.

 

van Meel also brought up maximum power, saying that M cars will only go up to 600 horsepower.

 

“For now, 600bhp is the most you can get in an M car. We’re at the limit. If you go on adding more horsepower and torque, it’d probably be over the limits.”

 

Source: Autocar


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Funny.... GM and Chrysler can do 700hp in a manual, wonder why BMW can't manage it.

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So much for the Ultimate Driving Machine! Wonder if MB or Audi also have the same problem?

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Funny.... GM and Chrysler can do 700hp in a manual, wonder why BMW can't manage it.

 

Except GM doesn't have a 700hp car period, and the Hellcats' power makes for nothing more than good burn outs.

 

I for one applaud BMW on realizing how stupid this power war is. I'd much rather them focus on making their cars lighter and more involving than chasing outright horsepower. The funny thing is the haters complain either way. When their cars aren't tops-in-class in handling/steering, people say they focus on speed too much, and they're too soft. When they try to adjust their philosophy on the next car, people decry them for complaining about the lack of increase of power. It's a lose-lose. Hating on BMW is just the cool thing to do these days, and people will always find a way to jump on the bandwagon somehow. Nevermind that BMW offers manuals in probably more cars than any other maker.

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Usually as horsepower goes up in a car, weight goes up also.  Because they have to stiffen the chassis, bigger suspension, bigger brakes, etc.  And at some point you hit a limit of how much power you can put in a sedan and use it.  There are 500 hp cars that beat the Charger Hellcat 0-60 and a lot of cars that beat it in the corners. 

 

Mercedes has had a 600 hp car over 10 years.  Audi doesn't need a 600 hp car because they have Lamborghini and Bugatti to take care of that crowd.

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Funny.... GM and Chrysler can do 700hp in a manual, wonder why BMW can't manage it.

 

Except GM doesn't have a 700hp car period, and the Hellcats' power makes for nothing more than good burn outs.

 

I for one applaud BMW on realizing how stupid this power war is. I'd much rather them focus on making their cars lighter and more involving than chasing outright horsepower. The funny thing is the haters complain either way. When their cars aren't tops-in-class in handling/steering, people say they focus on speed too much, and they're too soft. When they try to adjust their philosophy on the next car, people decry them for complaining about the lack of increase of power. It's a lose-lose. Hating on BMW is just the cool thing to do these days, and people will always find a way to jump on the bandwagon somehow. Nevermind that BMW offers manuals in probably more cars than any other maker.

 

 

I don't hate BMWs.... can't hate something that bores me so much.  

 

The distance between a 650hp Z06 and 700hp Z06 is just an underdrive pulley away.   The 7-speed manual can handle it. 

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Funny.... GM and Chrysler can do 700hp in a manual, wonder why BMW can't manage it.

 

Except GM doesn't have a 700hp car period, and the Hellcats' power makes for nothing more than good burn outs.

 

I for one applaud BMW on realizing how stupid this power war is. I'd much rather them focus on making their cars lighter and more involving than chasing outright horsepower. The funny thing is the haters complain either way. When their cars aren't tops-in-class in handling/steering, people say they focus on speed too much, and they're too soft. When they try to adjust their philosophy on the next car, people decry them for complaining about the lack of increase of power. It's a lose-lose. Hating on BMW is just the cool thing to do these days, and people will always find a way to jump on the bandwagon somehow. Nevermind that BMW offers manuals in probably more cars than any other maker.

 

 

I don't hate BMWs.... can't hate something that bores me so much.  

 

The distance between a 650hp Z06 and 700hp Z06 is just an underdrive pulley away.   The 7-speed manual can handle it. 

 

 

I'm not sure what manuals have to do with anything. Like I said, BMW offers manuals in more of it's vehicles than just about anyone.

 

Also, 700hp in an M5/M6 is just a tune away. What's your point?

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Funny.... GM and Chrysler can do 700hp in a manual, wonder why BMW can't manage it.

 

Except GM doesn't have a 700hp car period, and the Hellcats' power makes for nothing more than good burn outs.

 

I for one applaud BMW on realizing how stupid this power war is. I'd much rather them focus on making their cars lighter and more involving than chasing outright horsepower. The funny thing is the haters complain either way. When their cars aren't tops-in-class in handling/steering, people say they focus on speed too much, and they're too soft. When they try to adjust their philosophy on the next car, people decry them for complaining about the lack of increase of power. It's a lose-lose. Hating on BMW is just the cool thing to do these days, and people will always find a way to jump on the bandwagon somehow. Nevermind that BMW offers manuals in probably more cars than any other maker.

 

Whew..I thought I was the only one who was going to feel this way.  Just improve on Power:Weight and it is just as good, if not even more effective because it helps around corners as well.

 

Realistically..what 1% of us could even exract a full 500hp out of a car..let alone north of 600hp. This is one reason I love the GT350/R and Z/28 so much. Both of them could have went to huge power numbers like the GT500 or ZL1(to a slightly lesser extent) but they didn't. Extracting a full 500-550hp out of a large pony car is about all you can realistically ask for. More than that and the power won't be put to the ground efectively..look GT500 and Hellcat or even the exotic SLS AMG(not Black Series).

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Maybe 8 and 10 speed automatics, especially with rapid paddle shifters, is hard to beat with 6 speed manuals. I can't imagine anyone wanting 8 and 10 speed manuals  :breakdance:

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Automatics are faster shifting, smoother shifted and get better economy than a manual.  The computer is just too good compared to what a human can do.

 

I'll throw this out there as a reason it isn't all about power.  Look at a Mazda Miata, if they put a 300 hp V6 in it, they chassis would be stronger, engine heavier, transmission heavier, bigger wheels, brakes, etc.  It would weigh 3250 lbs, not 2250 lbs, and then it wouldn't be a Miata anymore.

 

The best BMW is the E39 M5, that had 400 hp, but it was 3900 lbs.  Now these M cars are getting so heavy.  If BMW can put carbon fiber into mass production and make an M5 that is 3600 lbs, 500 hp is plenty, it will smoke what they are building now.

 

I guess to sum up, BMW doesn't really have a horsepower problem, they have a weight problem.

Edited by smk4565

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Automatics are faster shifting, smoother shifted and get better economy than a manual.  The computer is just too good compared to what a human can do.

 

I'll throw this out there as a reason it isn't all about power.  Look at a Mazda Miata, if they put a 300 hp V6 in it, they chassis would be stronger, engine heavier, transmission heavier, bigger wheels, brakes, etc.  It would weigh 3250 lbs, not 2250 lbs, and then it wouldn't be a Miata anymore.

 

The best BMW is the E39 M5, that had 400 hp, but it was 3900 lbs.  Now these M cars are getting so heavy.  If BMW can put carbon fiber into mass production and make an M5 that is 3600 lbs, 500 hp is plenty, it will smoke what they are building now.

 

I guess to sum up, BMW doesn't really have a horsepower problem, they have a weight probleI 

 

 

I don't know, if either the Miata or M5 had a sophisticated and rapid paddle shifter on the wheel, quick-servo banging through 8 gears, that would be quite impressive.

Edited by Wings4Life

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We are all talking about 500/600/700 horsepower like its nothing...

 

SMK talked about an E39 M5 making 400 @ 3900 lbs...that right there...is practically my dream horsepower maximum with weight...

 

I would be totally satisfied with a car the size of an E39 Bimmer,,,maybe a tad bigger...with weight around 3600 lbs...and MAXIMUM horsepower @400 with and equal amount of torques...@ 400 ft/lbs...

 

No need to go more than that.

Potholes where I live and ice and snow...actually...250 horsepower is too much...

Streets are crowded with pedestrians, fellow drivers and law enforcement...250 horsepower is good enough to fully enjoy a car's "limits" on public streets. 

 

500/600/700 horsepower on daily driven cars on public roads is just....overkill.  Fun...but overkill.

 

Maybe my 42 years of age is finally starting to show some maturity and some calmness...but that is how I feel.

 

Besides...like SMK said...more power does add more weight to a car...bigger this and stronger that is required to safely handle more power. Above a certain weight....it defeats the purpose...of being a perfectly balanced car...

A perfectly balanced car...well...it has to be balanced all around.

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