Jump to content
William Maley

BMW News: BMW M Exec: Not So Bright Future For Manuals, Horsepower Limit

Recommended Posts

It seems some changes are coming to BMW's M division based on recent comments from the head of the division, Frank van Meel.

 

First up is transmissions. van Meel tells Autocar that DCT dual-clutch and automatic transmissions have a bright future for M cars. Not so much for the manual transmission as sales are declining.

 

“From a technical standpoint, the future doesn’t look bright for manual gearboxes. The DCT and auto ’boxes are faster and they have better fuel consumption. It’s difficult to say we’ll stick to the manual, but we still have a big fan community for manuals and we are not going to take away something the customer wants to have,” said van Meel.

 

van Meel also brought up maximum power, saying that M cars will only go up to 600 horsepower.

 

“For now, 600bhp is the most you can get in an M car. We’re at the limit. If you go on adding more horsepower and torque, it’d probably be over the limits.”

 

Source: Autocar


View full article

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So much for the Ultimate Driving Machine! Wonder if MB or Audi also have the same problem?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny.... GM and Chrysler can do 700hp in a manual, wonder why BMW can't manage it.

 

Except GM doesn't have a 700hp car period, and the Hellcats' power makes for nothing more than good burn outs.

 

I for one applaud BMW on realizing how stupid this power war is. I'd much rather them focus on making their cars lighter and more involving than chasing outright horsepower. The funny thing is the haters complain either way. When their cars aren't tops-in-class in handling/steering, people say they focus on speed too much, and they're too soft. When they try to adjust their philosophy on the next car, people decry them for complaining about the lack of increase of power. It's a lose-lose. Hating on BMW is just the cool thing to do these days, and people will always find a way to jump on the bandwagon somehow. Nevermind that BMW offers manuals in probably more cars than any other maker.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Usually as horsepower goes up in a car, weight goes up also.  Because they have to stiffen the chassis, bigger suspension, bigger brakes, etc.  And at some point you hit a limit of how much power you can put in a sedan and use it.  There are 500 hp cars that beat the Charger Hellcat 0-60 and a lot of cars that beat it in the corners. 

 

Mercedes has had a 600 hp car over 10 years.  Audi doesn't need a 600 hp car because they have Lamborghini and Bugatti to take care of that crowd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Funny.... GM and Chrysler can do 700hp in a manual, wonder why BMW can't manage it.

 

Except GM doesn't have a 700hp car period, and the Hellcats' power makes for nothing more than good burn outs.

 

I for one applaud BMW on realizing how stupid this power war is. I'd much rather them focus on making their cars lighter and more involving than chasing outright horsepower. The funny thing is the haters complain either way. When their cars aren't tops-in-class in handling/steering, people say they focus on speed too much, and they're too soft. When they try to adjust their philosophy on the next car, people decry them for complaining about the lack of increase of power. It's a lose-lose. Hating on BMW is just the cool thing to do these days, and people will always find a way to jump on the bandwagon somehow. Nevermind that BMW offers manuals in probably more cars than any other maker.

 

 

I don't hate BMWs.... can't hate something that bores me so much.  

 

The distance between a 650hp Z06 and 700hp Z06 is just an underdrive pulley away.   The 7-speed manual can handle it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Funny.... GM and Chrysler can do 700hp in a manual, wonder why BMW can't manage it.

 

Except GM doesn't have a 700hp car period, and the Hellcats' power makes for nothing more than good burn outs.

 

I for one applaud BMW on realizing how stupid this power war is. I'd much rather them focus on making their cars lighter and more involving than chasing outright horsepower. The funny thing is the haters complain either way. When their cars aren't tops-in-class in handling/steering, people say they focus on speed too much, and they're too soft. When they try to adjust their philosophy on the next car, people decry them for complaining about the lack of increase of power. It's a lose-lose. Hating on BMW is just the cool thing to do these days, and people will always find a way to jump on the bandwagon somehow. Nevermind that BMW offers manuals in probably more cars than any other maker.

 

 

I don't hate BMWs.... can't hate something that bores me so much.  

 

The distance between a 650hp Z06 and 700hp Z06 is just an underdrive pulley away.   The 7-speed manual can handle it. 

 

 

I'm not sure what manuals have to do with anything. Like I said, BMW offers manuals in more of it's vehicles than just about anyone.

 

Also, 700hp in an M5/M6 is just a tune away. What's your point?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Funny.... GM and Chrysler can do 700hp in a manual, wonder why BMW can't manage it.

 

Except GM doesn't have a 700hp car period, and the Hellcats' power makes for nothing more than good burn outs.

 

I for one applaud BMW on realizing how stupid this power war is. I'd much rather them focus on making their cars lighter and more involving than chasing outright horsepower. The funny thing is the haters complain either way. When their cars aren't tops-in-class in handling/steering, people say they focus on speed too much, and they're too soft. When they try to adjust their philosophy on the next car, people decry them for complaining about the lack of increase of power. It's a lose-lose. Hating on BMW is just the cool thing to do these days, and people will always find a way to jump on the bandwagon somehow. Nevermind that BMW offers manuals in probably more cars than any other maker.

 

Whew..I thought I was the only one who was going to feel this way.  Just improve on Power:Weight and it is just as good, if not even more effective because it helps around corners as well.

 

Realistically..what 1% of us could even exract a full 500hp out of a car..let alone north of 600hp. This is one reason I love the GT350/R and Z/28 so much. Both of them could have went to huge power numbers like the GT500 or ZL1(to a slightly lesser extent) but they didn't. Extracting a full 500-550hp out of a large pony car is about all you can realistically ask for. More than that and the power won't be put to the ground efectively..look GT500 and Hellcat or even the exotic SLS AMG(not Black Series).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe 8 and 10 speed automatics, especially with rapid paddle shifters, is hard to beat with 6 speed manuals. I can't imagine anyone wanting 8 and 10 speed manuals  :breakdance:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Automatics are faster shifting, smoother shifted and get better economy than a manual.  The computer is just too good compared to what a human can do.

 

I'll throw this out there as a reason it isn't all about power.  Look at a Mazda Miata, if they put a 300 hp V6 in it, they chassis would be stronger, engine heavier, transmission heavier, bigger wheels, brakes, etc.  It would weigh 3250 lbs, not 2250 lbs, and then it wouldn't be a Miata anymore.

 

The best BMW is the E39 M5, that had 400 hp, but it was 3900 lbs.  Now these M cars are getting so heavy.  If BMW can put carbon fiber into mass production and make an M5 that is 3600 lbs, 500 hp is plenty, it will smoke what they are building now.

 

I guess to sum up, BMW doesn't really have a horsepower problem, they have a weight problem.

Edited by smk4565

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Automatics are faster shifting, smoother shifted and get better economy than a manual.  The computer is just too good compared to what a human can do.

 

I'll throw this out there as a reason it isn't all about power.  Look at a Mazda Miata, if they put a 300 hp V6 in it, they chassis would be stronger, engine heavier, transmission heavier, bigger wheels, brakes, etc.  It would weigh 3250 lbs, not 2250 lbs, and then it wouldn't be a Miata anymore.

 

The best BMW is the E39 M5, that had 400 hp, but it was 3900 lbs.  Now these M cars are getting so heavy.  If BMW can put carbon fiber into mass production and make an M5 that is 3600 lbs, 500 hp is plenty, it will smoke what they are building now.

 

I guess to sum up, BMW doesn't really have a horsepower problem, they have a weight probleI 

 

 

I don't know, if either the Miata or M5 had a sophisticated and rapid paddle shifter on the wheel, quick-servo banging through 8 gears, that would be quite impressive.

Edited by Wings4Life

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are all talking about 500/600/700 horsepower like its nothing...

 

SMK talked about an E39 M5 making 400 @ 3900 lbs...that right there...is practically my dream horsepower maximum with weight...

 

I would be totally satisfied with a car the size of an E39 Bimmer,,,maybe a tad bigger...with weight around 3600 lbs...and MAXIMUM horsepower @400 with and equal amount of torques...@ 400 ft/lbs...

 

No need to go more than that.

Potholes where I live and ice and snow...actually...250 horsepower is too much...

Streets are crowded with pedestrians, fellow drivers and law enforcement...250 horsepower is good enough to fully enjoy a car's "limits" on public streets. 

 

500/600/700 horsepower on daily driven cars on public roads is just....overkill.  Fun...but overkill.

 

Maybe my 42 years of age is finally starting to show some maturity and some calmness...but that is how I feel.

 

Besides...like SMK said...more power does add more weight to a car...bigger this and stronger that is required to safely handle more power. Above a certain weight....it defeats the purpose...of being a perfectly balanced car...

A perfectly balanced car...well...it has to be balanced all around.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Social Stream

  • Similar Content

    • By dfelt
      Royal Dutch Shell us a global oil / gas producing company and yet even they see that the future will be about servicing the needs of energy by more than one traditional source as they have expanded in the last few years with solar, wind, natural gas, bio-fuel, hydrogen effectively covering various energy fronts. Shell then took this a step further last year when they bought NewMotion Charging with operates for profit 30,000 plus charging points across Netherlands, Germany, France and the U.K.
      This deal becomes the foundation for Shell's continued expansion of offering electric mobility charging solutions at their North America stations using Greenlots technology team. Together Shell will offer best in class software and services that enable large-scale deployment of Smart Charging Infrastructure and integrate efficiently with advanced energy resources like solar, wind and power storage.
      With the NewMotion purchase, Shell started with adding recharging service at their stations across the U.K. with expansion through out the rest of 2018 and into 2019 in their four original markets with expansion in Europe.

      Royal Dutch Shell has again expanded their recharging service by purchasing Greenlots one of the leading private for profit companies based in Los Angela's California. Shell and Greenlots sees a seismic shift in how people and goods are transported. To Quote Brett Hauser, CEO of Greenlots, "sees Electrification enabling a more connected, autonomous and personalized experience of auto mobility. Greenlots technology, backed by the resources, scale and reach  of Shell will accelerate this transition of future mobility ecosystem that is safer, cleaner and more accessible."
      Shell will be spending between $1-2 billion a year adding Recharging stations across North America as electricity recharging becomes a significant part of its business co-existing along side other forms of fuel from CNG, LNG, Hydrogen and traditional gas / diesel. Shell chargers will start off as basic DC/AC level 3 charging options but will be changed as faster versions come on the market such as the 800V fast chargers the auto industry is looking at using for new electric vehicles that are coming to market. 
      Greenlots currently has charging in 13 countries around the world making Shell one of the leading recharging as a service vendors now. Shell now becomes a major vendor in selling recharging equipment for retail business, apartment / condo's, homes, cities, Utilities, workplaces, mass transit lots, etc.

      Greenlots currently has 350 DC fast chargers located across the U.S. on major freeway systems at public rest areas currently focused on the core East Coast and the Pacific Electric Highway, I5 which runs from Vancouver B.C. south to Baja California.
      Greenlots is a major player with having signed an agreement with Electrify America the Volkswagen-subsidiary that is spending billions to install chargers all across the U.S. which will be credit card / debit card accessible for recharging by any EV.
      Shell has not stated what their gas station Rechargers will look like here in North America. BMW and Kia are customers that when you purchase an EV from these auto vendors, the charger you can buy for your home will be a Greenlots charger.

       
    • By dfelt
      Royal Dutch Shell us a global oil / gas producing company and yet even they see that the future will be about servicing the needs of energy by more than one traditional source as they have expanded in the last few years with solar, wind, natural gas, bio-fuel, hydrogen effectively covering various energy fronts. Shell then took this a step further last year when they bought NewMotion Charging with operates for profit 30,000 plus charging points across Netherlands, Germany, France and the U.K.
      This deal becomes the foundation for Shell's continued expansion of offering electric mobility charging solutions at their North America stations using Greenlots technology team. Together Shell will offer best in class software and services that enable large-scale deployment of Smart Charging Infrastructure and integrate efficiently with advanced energy resources like solar, wind and power storage.
      With the NewMotion purchase, Shell started with adding recharging service at their stations across the U.K. with expansion through out the rest of 2018 and into 2019 in their four original markets with expansion in Europe.

      Royal Dutch Shell has again expanded their recharging service by purchasing Greenlots one of the leading private for profit companies based in Los Angela's California. Shell and Greenlots sees a seismic shift in how people and goods are transported. To Quote Brett Hauser, CEO of Greenlots, "sees Electrification enabling a more connected, autonomous and personalized experience of auto mobility. Greenlots technology, backed by the resources, scale and reach  of Shell will accelerate this transition of future mobility ecosystem that is safer, cleaner and more accessible."
      Shell will be spending between $1-2 billion a year adding Recharging stations across North America as electricity recharging becomes a significant part of its business co-existing along side other forms of fuel from CNG, LNG, Hydrogen and traditional gas / diesel. Shell chargers will start off as basic DC/AC level 3 charging options but will be changed as faster versions come on the market such as the 800V fast chargers the auto industry is looking at using for new electric vehicles that are coming to market. 
      Greenlots currently has charging in 13 countries around the world making Shell one of the leading recharging as a service vendors now. Shell now becomes a major vendor in selling recharging equipment for retail business, apartment / condo's, homes, cities, Utilities, workplaces, mass transit lots, etc.

      Greenlots currently has 350 DC fast chargers located across the U.S. on major freeway systems at public rest areas currently focused on the core East Coast and the Pacific Electric Highway, I5 which runs from Vancouver B.C. south to Baja California.
      Greenlots is a major player with having signed an agreement with Electrify America the Volkswagen-subsidiary that is spending billions to install chargers all across the U.S. which will be credit card / debit card accessible for recharging by any EV.
      Shell has not stated what their gas station Rechargers will look like here in North America. BMW and Kia are customers that when you purchase an EV from these auto vendors, the charger you can buy for your home will be a Greenlots charger.

       

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      The number of automakers teaming up to share and develop new vehicles and technologies is growing in an effort to help reduce costs. A new report from German paper Handelsblatt says that BMW and Daimler are considering such a move.
      Speaking to sources at both companies, BMW and Daimler are looking into possibly jointly developing their next-generation compact cars (BMW 1-Series and Mercedes-Benz A-Class) - as part of a wider cooperation that includes sharing autonomous car tech. Working together on a new compact car platform would save the two companies billions in investments. If the two decide to move forward with this, the first cars aren't expected to arrive until 2025.
      But trying to sell this idea to BMW and Mercedes-Benz engineers may be the difficult part according to the report.
      Daimler and BMW have teamed up before,
      In 2015, the two along with Audi purchased Nokia's mapping software, Here. Last year, BMW and Daimler merged their short-term rental services to create a better presence in the mobility market. Source: Handelsblatt, Automotive News (Subscription Required)

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      The number of automakers teaming up to share and develop new vehicles and technologies is growing in an effort to help reduce costs. A new report from German paper Handelsblatt says that BMW and Daimler are considering such a move.
      Speaking to sources at both companies, BMW and Daimler are looking into possibly jointly developing their next-generation compact cars (BMW 1-Series and Mercedes-Benz A-Class) - as part of a wider cooperation that includes sharing autonomous car tech. Working together on a new compact car platform would save the two companies billions in investments. If the two decide to move forward with this, the first cars aren't expected to arrive until 2025.
      But trying to sell this idea to BMW and Mercedes-Benz engineers may be the difficult part according to the report.
      Daimler and BMW have teamed up before,
      In 2015, the two along with Audi purchased Nokia's mapping software, Here. Last year, BMW and Daimler merged their short-term rental services to create a better presence in the mobility market. Source: Handelsblatt, Automotive News (Subscription Required)
    • By William Maley
      Genesis has been building itself up as a competitor to the likes of the German luxury brands, for much lower prices. But it is still missing a few items, like having some sort of crossover or SUV - something that will be launching in the coming year or so. The brand is lacking a performance variant to take on the likes of BMW's M and Mercedes' AMG. However, a comment made by Hyundai product planner Mike O’Brien hints they're looking into it.
      "A big effort with the G70 was thermal management, to make sure that this car will hold u. We're building for the future. I'll just say that," said O'Brien to Road & Track.
      Proper thermal management is something essential for new vehicles, but you don't normally hear an automaker talk about it except when it comes to high-performance models. This becomes more intriguing when you take into account that Albert Biermann, now the head of Hyundai's r&d division, worked previously at BMW's M division.
      More from Road & Track:
      The comment about possibly badging it as a N model is also interesting. We have reported previously that Genesis has no plans on doing a N, so it hints that Genesis may come up with its own branding for a performance model.
      Source: Road & Track

      View full article
  • My Clubs

  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Reader Rides

About us

CheersandGears.com - Founded 2001

We ♥ Cars

Get in touch

Follow us

Recent tweets

facebook

×