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How do you separate preference from bias?


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So I have gotten over negative feelings I have for both Chrysler and GM but for some reason seem to have a somewhat irrational case of real dislike for Ford motor company at the moment. I really like the current F150, the Lincoln crossover products, the Mustang, the ST twins, the Fusion Sport...and several other products.

But for whatever reason I seem to have a real dislike for Ford that is not rational. Any advice you have for helping me think more rationally about them would be appreciated. 

Thanks!

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3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

There is an old quote from Gandhi:

I" like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Perhaps it is Ford worshippers that cause such feelings @A Horse With No Name.

That is part of it...

3 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Hate is a very natural human emotion!

I say embrace your hatred and your anger. Let it flow. Through you, over you, all around you!

Dont ease up! Just accept and grow stronger!

You hate Ford?

I say GOOD FOR YOU!!!

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Ford fans = Jedi younglings

@A Horse With No Name = Annakin Skywalker

 

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I can relate!

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I grew up in a Ford family, my first 3 cars were all Ford products...but from an early age I had an awareness of other car makers, from reading Car & Driver, Road & Track, Motor Trend, etc, and interest in a variety of cars internationally, through my fascination with model cars and die cast.   My older brother was into Chevys and Pontiacs also besides Fords, and my sister's first car was also Ford but once she got out on her own got into Datsuns and later other imports.    I'd consider another Ford at some point, but am happy w/ Jeeps for now. 

As far as hating on brands or disliking them, there are brands I've disliked or perhaps not been attracted to, but never something I would consider as strong as 'hate'...I save those stronger emotions for more important matters. 

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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1 hour ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

I grew up in a Ford family, my first 3 cars were all Ford products...but from an early age I had an awareness of other car makers, from reading Car & Driver, Road & Track, Motor Trend, etc, and interest in a variety of cars internationally, through my fascination with model cars and die cast.   My older brother was into Chevys and Pontiacs also besides Fords, and my sister's first car was also Ford but once she got out on her own got into Datsuns and later other imports.    I'd consider another Ford at some point, but am happy w/ Jeeps for now. 

As far as hating on brands or disliking them, there are brands I've disliked or perhaps not been attracted to, but never something I would consider as strong as 'hate'...I save those stronger emotions for more important matters. 

Fair enough...maybe I should say strongly dislike...

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8 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

There is an old quote from Gandhi:

I" like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Perhaps it is Ford worshippers that cause such feelings @A Horse With No Name.

From where I stand I don't see any difference between GM and Ford fanboys, and there is way more GM fanboys on this site then Ford 

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33 minutes ago, ykX said:

From where I stand I don't see any difference between GM and Ford fanboys, and there is way more GM fanboys on this site then Ford 

Fair enough also....I actually tend to like imports more than either Ford or GM products. Really I am not that  much of a domestic car guy in terms of my hard wiring...I would probably take the right 911 or Jaguar F type over any domestic car built....this site keeps me in balance and is fairly rational.

Edited by A Horse With No Name
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I just always try to remind myself to separate my feelings for a brand or it's fans from my impressions of a car.

For instance, I like a lot of Ferrari models. The brand as a whole, I'm not a fan of in the slightest. 

GM, on the other hand, I like in general. But some of their cars are total duds, and I won't hold back from calling them such.

I try to judge a car as though I don't know what the maker is, and I don't subject it to my own personal preferences over how the car performs it's intended function.

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5 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

I grew up in a Ford family, my first 3 cars were all Ford products...but from an early age I had an awareness of other car makers, from reading Car & Driver, Road & Track, Motor Trend, etc, and interest in a variety of cars internationally, through my fascination with model cars and die cast.   My older brother was into Chevys and Pontiacs also besides Fords, and my sister's first car was also Ford but once she got out on her own got into Datsuns and later other imports.    I'd consider another Ford at some point, but am happy w/ Jeeps for now. 

As far as hating on brands or disliking them, there are brands I've disliked or perhaps not been attracted to, but never something I would consider as strong as 'hate'...I save those stronger emotions for more important matters. 

I'm with you here... I don't hate any brands.  While I'd never want to own one or drive a long distance in one, I think taking an extended spin in a Yugo would be neat just to have the experience. 

That said, I grew up in a Ford / GM / Obscure-sh!tbox-import family. There are things I like and dislike about each.  GM ergonomics and interior layout generally just "fit" me better.  I have lots and lots of good memories of my parents '94 Bonneville that they bought about a year before I got my license.  My dad still has his F-150 he bought when I was in 9th or 10th grade.  The imports we had were never the well known type... there was a Fiat that I only barely remember, a VW Type 3 squareback, an early 80s Subaru GL Wagon 4x4 5-speed, and a Dodge Colt Vista wagon 4x4 5-speed.

That familiarity with GM and Ford products makes me feel much more comfortable in them.  It makes me feel uncomfortable in vehicles like Toyota or Benz where the Cruise control / Tilt wheel / head lamp controls are in the wrong place or wrong shape.  After years of GM cars with the WonderStalk, it took a while to get used to the cruise control in my Lincoln, but eventually it felt comfortable.  I've been driving the CR-V for nearly 10 years now and I still have to hunt for the Cruise Control on/off button when Albert turns it off for some unknown reason.

That said, as much as I've praised some specific Ford products here over the years, the actions of certain visitors to this site plus some of the actions of Ford PR people have left a bad taste in my mouth. 

I always try to relay my observations to readers in as even handed and objective way possible.  In those cases where I am reviewing a Ford product, it isn't the brand, but its followers that I have to try to put out of my mind.  I do find myself being careful of how or what I say that is or might be construed as negative in an attempt to avoid having to deal with trolling..... but really shouldn't do that as it is a disservice to you readers. 

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4 hours ago, ykX said:

From where I stand I don't see any difference between GM and Ford fanboys, and there is way more GM fanboys on this site then Ford 

The origins of this site, before I took it over, were as a GM fan site... so it is natural to find that here.   Still, fanboys are fine. There wouldn't be a site if fanboys didn't exist.  I'll be the first to admit that there have been some whoppers told by some of the GM fans here.... right along with the Benz Fans ... Ford fans... and VW fans... and Chrysler Co. fans. 

It's when telling whoppers crosses the line into trolling, abusive posts, and flat out falsehoods that would make politicians blush that I have to step in and either correct the record or take more punitive measures. 

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1 hour ago, Frisky Dingo said:

I just always try to remind myself to separate my feelings for a brand or it's fans from my impressions of a car.

For instance, I like a lot of Ferrari models. The brand as a whole, I'm not a fan of in the slightest. 

GM, on the other hand, I like in general. But some of their cars are total duds, and I won't hold back from calling them such.

I try to judge a car as though I don't know what the maker is, and I don't subject it to my own personal preferences over how the car performs it's intended function.

I agree...I really like the Camaro, but it is nowhere near the car the Mustang or Challenger are.

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As an aside, it is funny how you get familiar with a particular model or brand's controls then when you change cars or in a rental it takes time to get used to them....muscle memory and all that.

After 2 months, I'm still hunting for the missing right stalk and missing center console parking brake in my '14 JGC.   My '00 JGC had all the lighting features on the left stalk, all the wiper ones on the right stalk, and a center console parking brake.   The '14 has a dash knob for lighting, a stalk on the left w/ wiper functions, and foot operated parking brake...   all locations that show M-Bs influence on the WK2, I think.

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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5 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The origins of this site, before I took it over, were as a GM fan site... so it is natural to find that here.   Still, fanboys are fine. There wouldn't be a site if fanboys didn't exist.  I'll be the first to admit that there have been some whoppers told by some of the GM fans here.... right along with the Benz Fans ... Ford fans... and VW fans... and Chrysler Co. fans. 

It's when telling whoppers crosses the line into trolling, abusive posts, and flat out falsehoods that would make politicians blush that I have to step in and either correct the record or take more punitive measures. 

My MINI Cooper S will outrun a Buggati Veyron, it is worth more than a V 16 Cadillac from the Classic Era, will out tow a Ford Power Stroke diesel, and you are all less than men for not driving one...

Now you have heard it from the BMW/MINI crowd as well...

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2 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I agree...I really like the Camaro, but it is nowhere near the car the Mustang or Challenger are.

The poor outward visibility kind of kills the Camaro for me...feels like being in a pill box, and my head touches the headliner.    I like the new Mustang a lot, but of the 3, the Challenger really appeals to me the most..it's the '70s styling and heftiness that appeal to me...

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1 minute ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

The poor outward visibility kind of kills the Camaro for me...feels like being in a pill box, and my head touches the headliner.    I like the new Mustang a lot, but of the 3, the Challenger really appeals to me the most..it's the '70s styling and heftiness that appeal to me...

I think it is a close tie between the Mustang and Callenger with Camaro a distant second.

4 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

As an aside, it is funny how you get familiar with a particular model or brand's controls then when you change cars or in a rental it takes time to get used to them....muscle memory and all that.

After 2 months, I'm still hunting for the missing right stalk and missing center console parking brake in my '14 JGC.   My '00 JGC had all the lighting features on the left stalk, all the wiper ones on the right stalk, and a center console parking brake.   The '14 has a dash knob for lighting, a stalk on the left w/ wiper functions, and foot operated parking brake...   both attributes that show M-Bs influence, I think.

It is interesting to change up vehicles, yes...probably why I am replacing a recently departed German car with another German car...

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Just now, A Horse With No Name said:

I think it is a close tie between the Mustang and Callenger with Camaro a distant second.

I have ridden in a couple of the current Mustangs, haven't driven one yet..the odd thing to me is they seem big on the outside--about as big as my '69--but the interior seems very tight, smaller than my '87...

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Just now, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

I have ridden in a couple of the current Mustangs, haven't driven one yet..the odd thing to me is they seem big on the outside--about as big as my '69--but the interior seems very tight, smaller than my '87...

Actually i test drove one, and was very comfortable.  We are roughly the same size...

I would rate both the Miata and BRZ as better overall drivers cars, but overall...the Mustang comes in second right behind the GTI for the best car overall under 50K that I have ever driven.

But the GTI comes in first IMHO...

Even though this is a thread started about my reservations about Ford....they get some things really right.

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8 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I agree...I really like the Camaro, but it is nowhere near the car the Mustang or Challenger are.

And that's a bit of a subjective thing as well.  The current Camaro is a fantastic driving car, as would be expected for something based on a Cadillac. It is great if you want a sports car all the time.

The Mustang is a much more livable car for daily use and has a better blend of comfort and sport.  Put the Camaro and Mustang next to each other, and the Mustang will seemingly tower over the very low riding Camaro.

The Challenger doesn't have the suspension to keep up with the other two in handling, but it's big, fast in a straight line, and the most comfortable for a long distance (source: Me driving the Challenger and Mustang back and forth between Miami and Key West)

Which of the cars is "better" hinges entirely on which aspect you find most important.  For everyday driving, I value comfort over sport, so I would opt for a Challenger (Hemi :drool:) or a Mustang (the seats are fantastic).  If I was taking something to the track regularly, I'd opt for a Camaro and something else to daily (hey, I'm getting old.. it's not easy to get into low slung cars as it use to be)

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1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

And that's a bit of a subjective thing as well.  The current Camaro is a fantastic driving car, as would be expected for something based on a Cadillac. It is great if you want a sports car all the time.

The Mustang is a much more livable car for daily use and has a better blend of comfort and sport.  Put the Camaro and Mustang next to each other, and the Mustang will seemingly tower over the very low riding Camaro.

The Challenger doesn't have the suspension to keep up with the other two in handling, but it's big, fast in a straight line, and the most comfortable for a long distance (source: Me driving the Challenger and Mustang back and forth between Miami and Key West)

Which of the cars is "better" hinges entirely on which aspect you find most important.  For everyday driving, I value comfort over sport, so I would opt for a Challenger (Hemi :drool:) or a Mustang (the seats are fantastic).  If I was taking something to the track regularly, I'd opt for a Camaro and something else to daily (hey, I'm getting old.. it's not easy to get into low slung cars as it use to be)

The whole interior is fantastic on the Mustang....and yes with a Hemi...O holy #$%^ on the Challenger.

See my impressions of the Camaro were more of it being a boulevard cruiser and I didn't find it as sporty or athletic as the Challenger or Mustang.

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Just now, A Horse With No Name said:

The whole interior is fantastic on the Mustang....and yes with a Hemi...O holy #$%^ on the Challenger.

See my impressions of the Camaro were more of it being a boulevard cruiser and I didn't find it as sporty or athletic as the Challenger or Mustang.

Which year / model did you drive?  I would certainly agree with you if you were talking about 5th Gen Camaro.  I haven't driven a low end 6th gen, only highly optioned SS models. 

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Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

Which year / model did you drive?  I would certainly agree with you if you were talking about 5th Gen Camaro.  I haven't driven a low end 6th gen, only highly optioned SS models. 

5th gen V6 manual. Car just felt really heavy and unresponsive. I probably should have driven a 6th gen V6 manual in my latest quest for a car...

I think I liked the ecoboost Mustang I drove because it felt really nimble and the interior was fantastic...

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Just now, A Horse With No Name said:

5th gen V6 manual. Car just felt really heavy and unresponsive. I probably should have driven a 6th gen V6 manual in my latest quest for a car...

doh... probably the worst way to option that car because .... well it is heavy and unresponsive.   That was a big heavy car and the V6 was simply no match for all of that mass.  It's only when you opt for the small-block does the car have enough torque to move around smartly.  Equipped equivalently, the Mustang is much better... still a bit of a cruiser... but definitely more responsive. 

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Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

doh... probably the worst way to option that car because .... well it is heavy and unresponsive.   That was a big heavy car and the V6 was simply no match for all of that mass.  It's only when you opt for the small-block does the car have enough torque to move around smartly.  Equipped equivalently, the Mustang is much better... still a bit of a cruiser... but definitely more responsive. 

I would give my eye teeth for a Camaro SS but I drive a ton of miles and it would eat me up in fuel costs...

People are getting in the thirties with the Ecoboost Mustang driven responsibly which is just insane.

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2 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I would give my eye teeth for a Camaro SS but I drive a ton of miles and it would eat me up in fuel costs...

Challenger... honestly.  Even with the Hemi you'd do decent on fuel economy, but the V6 with the 8-speed runs plenty well enough to satisfy as a daily. Keep it at the legal speed limit, and you'll get some pretty surprising fuel economy too.

I'm not sure how Chrysler managed to make such a heavy car with a V6 run more energetically than the Camaro setup... but they did. 

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