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Comments: Frankfurt 2017: Mercedes-AMG Project One Brings F1 Tech Into the Real World

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True on the C8 and hardly anything is know about the mid-engine corvette.

Project One is a whole other level that you almost can't compare anything to it. 

Lewis Hamilton had this to say:

“I love cars. And I’ve been saying to Mercedes for so long, why don’t you do a real car? Like, you’ve got AMG sports cars, but I’m talking about a supercar. Why is Ferrari building these supercars? We can build a better car than them. We build a better racing car than them, why don’t you guys build something that takes Mercedes to another stratosphere. And eventually I guess, after I’ve been saying it for ten years, so eventually they’ve gone ahead with it, and I think that’s cool.”

And so now Mercedes is in another stratosphere and can take it to Ferrari on the road, just as they have on the track the past 4 years.

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4 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Actually, the Project One is more real than the C8 in one sense--nothing has publically been announced about the C8, no concept has been shown, so it's just vaporware at this point...

True. Only spy photos and rumors of some sort of reveal at this year' Detroit Auto Show.

Unlike with the Ford GT surprise...

http://blog.caranddriver.com/latest-spy-pics-of-mid-engined-2019-c8-corvette-best-view-yet-of-cabin-and-overall-proportions/

 

And even then...like you said...it may all be just over in a blink of an eye and these photographs will just be photos of...something...and nothing...

This much I do agree...

But...the Project One is just a mock-up...

A Mock-up with descriptive words about said mock-up is just as "real" as said spy pics...

Those spy pics of a possible mid-engined GM car...probably the Corvette as JDN outright denied any Cadillac badge adorning such a thing...and the people witnessing these pics are knowing this is truly a mid-engined affair...

 

http://autoweek.com/article/spy-photos/new-spy-shots-mid-engine-c8-corvette-show-more-ever

 

 

Quote

 

While it has yet to receive one spoken word of confirmation from Chevrolet, the spy photos don’t lie: A mid-engine Corvette is probably on its way.

These spy shots give us our first glimpse of the interior, as well as small hints of the shape that will most likely be revealed at the 2018 Detroit auto show. Clearly, the doors open conventionally, and everything about the curves scream mid-engine. Even the larger rear brake rotor size hints at more weight being further back in the car -- another mid-engine tip-off.

These photos are more detailed than before and reveal what looks to be a car further along in the production process. The front of the car looks decidedly un-Corvette like, but the rear certainly reminds us of the C7. Not looking over a mile of hood and still being in a “Corvette” sure will be weird, but we can’t wait to see what Chevy can do with a seriously dynamic chassis.

 

 
And yes...I highlighted probably...
THAT would be the difference though between the Project One as we KNOW the Project One WILL be coming.
 
But...THAT is the thing...
 
Fanboyism goes both ways....
 
There is more to a Corvette than production stock performance numbers....and BEFORE we just claim  victory  about a Project One Mercedes automobile and then trying to out-do me and call an OBVIOUS attempt at GM FINALLY getting serious about mid-engined cars (FIERO WAS CHEAPENED)...WE MUST NOT COUNT OUT WHAT THE REAL WORLD DOES WITH CORVETTES...
 
ANY car could be tuned and  modified to out run ANY OTHER  car...
AND I HATE when the argument does end up going there when Mustangs and Camaros and Supra Twin Turbos are being compared to each other...stock versus modified fanboy arguments...
 
In THIS case though...
 
Corvettes racing on race tracks ALL OVER the world is a different animal..and YOU know that Corvettes DO get used and abused...because THAT is what Corvettes are built for!
 
And...@2.5 million dollars...NOBODY will be racing this "F1 for the street" hypercar...and you know what...I doubt the Project One...all 250 of them... are gonna be built to be used and abused on an almost daily basis...
 
Let us not forget that a Corvette is engineered as a daily driver as well as a race car...
Therefore...I get really pissy when fanboys just BLATANTLY dismiss what a Corvette actually does with REAL people actually daily driving them Mon-Fri  AND racing them Sat-Sun and back to work on Monday...for the most part...
 
PS:  I DID give props to the Project One...
 
Both CCAP and SMK DENIED CORVETTE MERITS...
 
So who are the trolls?
Me?
 
Its difficult to talk sanely when people dont want to act sane!
 
 
 
 

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5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

And so now Mercedes is in another stratosphere and can take it to Ferrari on the road, just as they have on the track the past 4 years.

Problem is...people actually race their Ferraris...

http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a12216811/30-million-dollar-ferrari-car-crash/

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44 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Those spy pics of a possible mid-engined GM car...probably the Corvette as JDN outright denied any Cadillac badge adorning such a thing...and the people witnessing these pics are knowing this is truly a mid-engined affair...

 

JDN is a bad manager.  Infiniti sales and Audi sales have gone up since he left those organizations and Cadillac has fallen to 7th place in American market sales.  

GM can do chassis and suspensions, they are pretty good at that, Cadillacs, Corvettes and Camaros all often get high marks in that regard.  But look at every comparison test a Cadillac has been in over the past 15 years, and every time, interior, build quality, NVH, refinement, etc always doom them.  JDN inherited a known problem, has done nothing to fix it, nothing to elevate the Cadillac brand, nothing to fix the marketing.

And people crash their Ferraris because they are upset and frustrated with 4 years of losing to Mercedes.

world-champions-F1-6.jpg

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Courtesy of wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuderia_Ferrari

Quote

 

The Ferrari team has achieved unparalleled success in Formula One and holds many significant records including:

  • Most Constructors' Championships: 16
  • Most Drivers' Championships: 15
  • Most Grands Prix participated (all-time): 945
  • Most Grands Prix started (all-time): 942[6]
  • Most wins (all-time): 228[7]
  • Most podiums (all-time): 721
  • Most one-two finishes (all-time): 83
  • Most pole positions (all-time): 211
  • Most WCC points (all-time): 7,033.5
  • Most WDC points (all-time): 7,935.27
  • Most fastest laps (all-time): 241
  • Most consecutive seasons with at least one victory during a season: 20 (1994–2013)

Ferrari is also the most successful F1 engine manufacturer, with 228 wins. Of the 19 tracks used in 2014, 8 have lap records set by the Ferrari F2004, with a further 3 set by the Ferrari F2003-GA, Ferrari F2008 and Ferrari F10.

 


 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_in_Formula_One

 

Quote

 

The manufacturer has collected more than 100 wins as engine supplier, and is ranked fourth in Formula One history. Five Constructors' and seven Drivers' Championships have been won with Mercedes-Benz engines.

Mercedes has become one of the most successful teams in recent Formula One history, having achieved consecutive Drivers' and Constructors' Championships from 2014 to 2016. In 2014, Mercedes managed 11 one-two finishes beating McLaren's 1988 record of 10. The record was beaten the following year having achieved 12 one-two finishes. Mercedes also collected 16 victories in 2014 and 2015 apiece breaking McLaren (1988) and Ferrari's (2002, 2004) record of 15. In 2016, they broke their own record, achieving 19 wins.


 

 

Like I said...

Ferrari is like the Montreal Canadiens...

Or...like the New York Yankees and Mercedes Benz is like the Boston Red Sox in MLB

The Red Sox are on a roll in the 2000s just like Mercedes Benz...

Problem is...

07265cdf8ebfee47cf6ec2d89ca1dae7--stanle44ce1cd33f58f9eb85750c456c80a8fc--bathro

 

oc099.jpg

 

00.jpg

 

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Ferrari's history in F1 is one of periods of dominance followed by fallow periods...boom or bust.     Not necessarily applicable to the car market though. 

Mercedes current run in F1 is an interesting circumstance, considering they were out of the sport for 55 years before buying Brawn (a 1 year team with a long backstory of previous teams).     

I'd like to see Ferrari back to winning to F1 championships, as well as McLaren (my favorite team from the 80s-90s)---F1 is much more entertaining when one team doesn't dominate but multiple are competitive, IMO...

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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9 hours ago, smk4565 said:

And people crash their Ferraris because they are upset and frustrated with 4 years of losing to Mercedes.

world-champions-F1-6.jpg

I say this is more a matter of who bought the race series and as such there will never be anyone else who will win the Mercedes F1 series but MB. So why would you want to spend millions in a race owned by one company that will always win no matter what others do.

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1 hour ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Ferrari's history in F1 is one of periods of dominance followed by fallow periods...boom or bust.     Not necessarily applicable to the car market though. 

Mercedes current run in F1 is an interesting circumstance, considering they were out of the sport for 55 years before buying Brawn (a 1 year team with a long backstory of previous teams).     

I'd like to see Ferrari back to winning to F1 championships, as well as McLaren (my favorite team from the 80s-90s)---F1 is much more entertaining when one team doesn't dominate but multiple are competitive, IMO...

The old adage win on Sunday, sell on Monday no longer applies...win or lose...boom or bust....moot point.

The fact that Ferrari has THAT many records and championships and the fact that the other teams are ALWAYS gunning for Ferrari is what counts...

Ferrari was, is and will forever remain the team to beat as some of those records seem like they will NEVER be reached by other teams and manufacturers.

The pressure is on Ferrari to continue to win, but there is also pressure for other teams to PREVENT Ferrari from winning.

The Yankees are hated for that exact reason. Whether they buy players (Bambino, Pedro Martinez), or they groom them from their own organization (Joe Dimmagio, Derek Jeter), no doubt about it...the Yankees ARE the Major League. The Red Sox unfortunately will forever remain behind The Pin Striped  Yankees.

It dont end there for Ferrari...Ferrari is also targeted at the 24 hour of LeMans over at IMSA...

1999-2004 was the last time Ferrari dominated...like the Yankees...it is in THIS era that wins ALSO do come...

Mercedes winning 3 in a row NOW is another moot point...

LIke...WTF is your argument? 

Just because Mercedes won 3 years in a row....A short decade ago...Ferrari won 5 in a row...

This reminds me of the Red Sox winning 3 Championships since the beginning of this Millennial era and finaly breaking free of the Bambino Curse and in there winning in style AGAINST the Yankess...the Yankees also winning 3-4 World Series since the late 1990s after a decade or two of mediocrity...yet the Yankees are sooooo far ahead...

And while yes...F1 is more fun when others win too...much like in MLB...you dont have to tell me...Montreal lost their Expos MUCH THE VERY SAME WAY AS MLB USED TO RUN THEIR LEAGUE AS F1 IS RUNNING THEIRS NOW...

I HATE THE YANKEES AS THE YANKEES (mostly daddy Steinbrenner) HAVE COME TO SYMBOLIZE THE REASON WHY THE EXPOS WENT TO WASHINGTON AND THE REASON WHY FOR THE ATHLETICS TO RESORT TO ANALYTICS TO WIN GAMES....

Back to Mercedes...

What are we...in 5th grade to discuss total Championships?

Trust me...I know of these types of discussions...I live in a city with MULTIPLE DYNASTIES in hockey...

and yes the HABS are HATED for THAT reason...

Still does not change the fact that the HABS ARE HOCKEY! 

Trust me...even though the HABS have NOT won since 1993...the team is NOT frustrated...the fans are...not the organization...

Same with Ferrari...yet they won 5 in a row a decade ago...Ferrari is quite arrogantly smug of where they are in history regarding racing...

Ford gave them a black eye AND a bloody nose in the 60s with the Ford GT thing...

Again last year...I dont think they cared all that much for last year....but in that span in between...Ferrari did continue winning shyte....

So...like I said...

Ferrari Folk ACTUALLY take pride in what Enzo started and RACE their cars...just like Porsche and Vette guys...

Does Mercedes have that even though Mercedes ALSO has a rich racing heritage?

Edited by oldshurst442

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From WIKI

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One

Quote


McLaren also announced that it was to reacquire the shares in its team from Mercedes Benz (McLaren's partnership with Mercedes was reported to have started to sour with the McLaren Mercedes SLR road car project and tough F1 championships which included McLaren being found guilty of spying on Ferrari). Hence, during the 2010 season, Mercedes Benz re-entered the sport as a manufacturer after its purchase of Brawn GP, and split with McLaren after 15 seasons with the team. This left Mercedes, McLaren, and Ferrari as the only car manufacturers in the sport, although both McLaren and Ferrari began as racing teams rather than manufacturers.

To compensate for the loss of manufacturer teams, four new teams were accepted entry into the 2010 season ahead of a much anticipated 'cost-cap' (see below). Entrants included a reborn Team Lotus – which was led by a Malaysian consortium including Tony Fernandes, the boss of Air Asia; Hispania Racing – the first Spanish Formula One team; as well as Virgin RacingRichard Branson's entry into the series following a successful partnership with Brawn the year before. They were also joined by the US F1 Team, which planned to run out of the United States as the only non-European based team in the sport. Financial issues befell the squad before they even made the grid. Despite the entry of these new teams, the proposed cost-cap was repealed and these teams – who did not have the budgets of the midfield and top-order teams – ran around at the back of the field until they inevitably collapsed; HRT in 2012, Caterham (formerly Lotus) in 2014 and Manor (formerly Virgin then Marussia), having survived falling into administration in 2014, went under at the end of 2016.

A rule shake-up in 2014 meant Mercedes emerged as the dominant force, with Lewis Hamilton winning the championship closely followed by his main rival and teammate, Nico Rosberg, with the team winning 16 out of the 19 races that season (all other victories coming from Daniel Ricciardo of Red Bull). 2014 also saw a financial crisis which resulted in the backmarker Marussia and Caterham teams being put into administration, alongside the uncertain futures of Force India and Sauber. Marussia returned under the Manor name in 2015, a season in which Ferrari were the only challengers to Mercedes, with Vettel taking victory in the three Grands Prix Mercedes did not win.[34]

 

 

Kinda  makes those recent Mercedes Benz Championships hollow, huh?

 

I get why we should feel all nice and warm about the Project One and all...and as an AUTOMOBILE enthusiast I FEEL THE LOVE for the Project One...but...

 

As a Dallas Cowboys fan...Troy Aikman is my guy...

Also...my choice for GOAT at the 1/4 back position is this guy...

maxresdefault.jpg

 

well...until this guy came along

0610-tom-brady-5-rings-at-patriots-1200x

 

Just because I root for 1 team...it does not mean I HAVE to denounce all other teams just because of sheer fanboyism...

 

I analyzed and dissected this discussion front to back, back to front...

 

When I say that a possible mid-engined Corvette WILL give the Project One a run for its money...

It aint ME being the fanboy of saying that...as I showed that a Vette dominates...and people that ENGINEER them and MOSTLY the people that own them have that passion to make them dominate...

But tis the people who ONLY will give props to the Project One and negate ANYTHING other than the Project One...

 

Several of you have gone outta your way to denounce the Vette and Ferrari trying to prove to ME that I am the one outta line...yet ironically...YOUR arguments to me are ALL OF FANBOYISM...

Mine are of reality!

YOURS is purely out of spite...

A mid-engined C8 is vaporware?

Sure...it may be...but that is more of you folk wanting it to be vaporware rather than what is really going on...

Not wanting to admit that a mid-engined Vette WILL punch above its weight class and give hypercars a run for their money while ONLY praising the Project One?

Yeah....wear those blinders but tell me Im  crazy...while resorting to the vaporware  comment again...

Photos and  mock-ups versus actual spy pics of a possible vehicle actually PHYSICALLY being tested...

Both have a realism to it, but both have vaporware written all over them...

How is it though that we could speculate what one car will do without any real facts...and CEO words dont  count, and we cant speculate what the other will do KNOWING what Vette engineers and Corvette Racing endeavors has achieved while thousands of loyal Vette hot rodders and racer and after market producers has actually accomplished with the Vette over the last 60 phoquing years???!!!

 

 

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I'm not a big baseball fan, but I'm enjoying the Indians current run.   Oddly, I never paid much attention to the local teams when I lived in Arizona, but after moving back to my original region I'm cheering for the Cleveland teams...Indians, Cavs, Browns...wish we had a hockey team.  About the only time I did follow hockey was when I lived in Colorado--followed the Avalanche for years.   And still a Broncos fan after 20 years.  Not sure how it applies to Mercedes vs Ferrari, but I've wandered off topic again.

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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You mean to tell me that you cant find a relation?

Common dude...

At the end of the day...both are of the sports category...

Car racing is a sport, non?  (some might argue that, but in no way that car racing is NOT SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT!!!)

And this discussion is about Ferrari and Mercedes and Vette doing battle in the racing part of the car equation, non?

But yeah...Im in left field somewhere...PUN INTENDED!

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4 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

You mean to tell me that you cant find a relation?

Common dude...

At the end of the day...both are of the sports category...

Car racing is a sport, non?  (some might argue that, but in no way that car racing is NOT SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT!!!)

And this discussion is about Ferrari and Mercedes and Vette doing battle in the racing part of the car equation, non?

But yeah...Im in left field somewhere...PUN INTENDED!

Yeah, all are sports.. I do love racing, haven't watched as much this year as in past years---buying the house and moving, multiple remodeling projects have really sucked up my time and energy.   Looking forward to going to some races at Mid-Ohio and other regional tracks next year. 

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Mercedes was the best in Formula 1 in 1954-1955, you know back when they didn't make luxury or performance cars and just made taxis.  They best Ferrari then, now that they are back in the sport they aren't beating Ferrari again.

Mercedes is joining Formula E so we'll see if they can win that.  McLaren is ditching Honda engines in F1 for Renault next year so they should actually finish a race and be competitive.

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Yeah well...the Brooklyn Dodgers also won a World Series in 1955...and Joltin' Joe had looong retired by then...

And when the Dodgers was the talk of the town in 1955, the Yankees quietly became legends again with  Mantle and Maris and the Dodgers quietly were no longer playing at Ebbetts field in Brooklyn...

And then there was this

giphy.gif

 

When the Yankees was at the bottom...

But quietly

this guy came along to fortify the Yankees as the BEST TEAM IN HISTORY IN ALL OF SPORTS!

giphy.gif

 

There is a small connection and purpose to that that I did

I doubt however if you could figure that out...

Edited by oldshurst442

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Bugatti Chiron: 1480 HP, 0-97KPH: 2.4, 0-200 : 6.5, top speed 261 (limited).
Rimac Concept One, 1224 HP, 0-100KPH: 2.4, 0-200 : 6.0, top speed 221 (limited).

 

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On 9/17/2017 at 11:42 PM, balthazar said:

Bugatti Chiron: 1480 HP, 0-97KPH: 2.4, 0-200 : 6.5, top speed 261 (limited).
Rimac Concept One, 1224 HP, 0-100KPH: 2.4, 0-200 : 6.0, top speed 221 (limited).

 

The AMG Project One (which is getting a new name for production thankfully) will beat the Rimac, and it isn't made by a man in a shed, it is made by Mercedes so you know it will work.  Even though Richard Hammond did roll a Rimac and survive with little injury so perhaps it is safe.   The AMG will stomp these cars in handling, it weighs nearly 1,500 lbs less than the Rimac.

A Tesla Model S P100 D does 0-125 mph in 10.5 seconds (and won Motor Trend's World's greatest drag race), Project One can do that in under 6 seconds.

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2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

A Tesla Model S P100 D does 0-125 mph in 10.5 seconds (and won Motor Trend's World's greatest drag race), Project One can do that in under 6 seconds.

No Proof that Project One will achieve this, just theory based on computer models and so Right now Project One is just Vaporware.

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On 9/17/2017 at 8:42 PM, balthazar said:

Bugatti Chiron: 1480 HP, 0-97KPH: 2.4, 0-200 : 6.5, top speed 261 (limited).
Rimac Concept One, 1224 HP, 0-100KPH: 2.4, 0-200 : 6.0, top speed 221 (limited).

 

Way too funny as this just proves EV over ICE in the Performance race and like everything in time, all products will get to the EV world. Very cool.

Be interesting to see this up against other hyper cars when and if they come out.

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Rimac is impressive as they offer 4 different motors in their car and the top is 517hp continuous with peak 877hp. With 625 Lb Ft of continous torque. Should be a blast to drive. Like what they have on their site

http://www.rimac-automobili.com/en/

Have to say that the Rimac is NO SHED BUILT car. They designed their own controllers and so much more based on what I see on their web site. This is a well funded car company. They have some very cool tech. I hope they survive or at least get bought by an auto company that wants to compete in the Hypercar war that I see coming.

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Rimac Torque Vectoring video is very cool plus they use DELL computers for their design work. :P

http://www.rimac-automobili.com/media/2305/rimac-torque-vectoring-inside-video.mp4

Interesting how they use the packaging design of a Volt, so their batteries are T shaped. Available liquid cooled or air cooled to optimize battery life for the project design.

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Rimac builds custom EV auto's for anyone, an asian guy paid them to build a 1 MegaWatt EV racer that placed 2nd at the Pikes Peak run.

 

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Rimac is one of the few 'supercars' that has any sort of cohesive, sophisticated design, IMO. The "LaFerrari" is ridiculous; fans/company will likely say it's all functional/wind tunnel tuned but the video proves- it doesn't matter. Hope the Rimac gets more exposure- it seems largely unknown.

However, it has set an EV hypercar performance bar that Mercedes has to contend with.

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Hard to take 'Rimac' seriously, though when compared to real car companies....a startup car company in Croatia?  Riiiight...more prototypes with low odds of success...I'm skeptical of these new supercar companies, just a lot of hype without substance.   M-B AMG I take seriously..

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar

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10 hours ago, dfelt said:

No Proof that Project One will achieve this, just theory based on computer models and so Right now Project One is just Vaporware.

Except  that Lewis Hamilton has driven it and his F1 car does 0-124 mph in 4.6 seconds with the same engine.  The 2 electric motors and all wheel drive will help make up for the 1,000 lb weigh difference.

 

47 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Rimac is one of the few 'supercars' that has any sort of cohesive, sophisticated design, IMO. The "LaFerrari" is ridiculous; fans/company will likely say it's all functional/wind tunnel tuned but the video proves- it doesn't matter. Hope the Rimac gets more exposure- it seems largely unknown.

However, it has set an EV hypercar performance bar that Mercedes has to contend with.

The Rimac is on season 2 of The Grand Tour which I think comes out in November.

The successor to Project One will be all electric around 2025, Mercedes already said they are going to take Formula E technology to put to a road car but they are a year away from racing Formula E.

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      Powering the Vision EQS is a dual motor system with continuous all wheel drive with approximately 469 horsepower and with about 560 lbs.-ft of torque. The juice for all that power comes from an approximately 100 kWh battery.  The top speed is estimated at 124 mph and 0 to 60 will happen in less than four and a half seconds.  The Vision EQS is capable of DC fast charging up to 350 KW. Range is estimated at around 435 on the WLTP rating cycle. 
      The interior of the EQS is intended to remind passengers of the deck of a boat, taking its inspiration from luxury yachts. The interior uses a portion of recycled plastic reclaimed from ocean waste. The wood is Maple from ecologically managed forests in Germany.  By using wood from Germany, it ensures a short transportation distance to reduce the CO2 output of the assembly process. 
       
       

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    • By Drew Dowdell
      Mercedes-Benz has debuted the third generation of plug-in hybrid GLC with a tongue twister of a name.  The Mercedes-Benx GLC 350e 4Matic EQ Power... yes, that's the whole model name...will have its formal debut at the Frankfurt International Auto Show this month. 
      The GLC 350e gets an increase in all-electric range to 28-30 miles on the NEDC rating, EPA rating is yet to be determined. Power comes from a 2.0-liter turbo 4-cylinder rated for 208 horsepower at 5,500 rpm and 258 lbs.-ft of torque at 1,200 - 4,000 rpm. Inside the 9-speed automatic is an electric motor that adds 121 horsepower and 325 lbs.-ft of torque for a total system output of 315 horsepower and 516 lbs.-ft of torque.  Acceleration to 60 is estimated at 5.6 seconds. 
      Level one charging (household plug) from 10% takes 7.75 hours to reach 100%. On a level two charger, that time drops to just 2.25 hours. The MBUX system can help drivers find a charging station by simply saying "Hey Mercedes, find charging stations nearby."

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