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Comments: Frankfurt 2017: Mercedes-AMG Project One Brings F1 Tech Into the Real World

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20 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

You call it performance models..and hooray for Mercedes Benz. and AMG

I call THAT diluting the brand...

Because the not ALL AMG C class cars dominate...as soon as you have a Camaro or Mustang dominating a C Class AMG....point is moot that AMG is something special...

Talking about AMG being special...and RARE...you cant just slap that badge on anything either...

I get that AMG is a hot commodity right now and Mercedes Benz wants to cash in...and good on for Mercedes for that!

In the long run...it probably will dilute that RARE and SPECIAL image AMG it once had...

Its HOT right now as AMG WAS RARE AND SPECIAL for those folk that are buying AMGs today but the next generation of enthusiasts wont be seeing AMG that way tomorrow when 3 Class cars adorn the AMG badge and 2 of those 3 AMGs gets spanked by Camaros...

YOU will deflect and say not competitors...

I will say this:

 

As the buyers going forward in 2017 ARE flocking to CUVs and SUVs...I must agree with you here and ask the same questions...

Im sure at this point...the way the Escalade and XT5 are selling versus the ATS and CTS...a XT5 V and Escalade V would do wonders for Cadillac's image in the performance world (IF and ONLY IF Cadillac V Series SUVs could dominate the way the ATS and CTS Vs do)...Hell...Cadillac's image over all...

The ATS V and CTS V do NOTHING for Cadillac's image as of now!

I have down played AMG enough...

Its time to praise AMG...

I agree with you here 100%

The ONLY thing I wish AMG STOP doing is OVERLY doing the lower grade Mercedes cars as THOSE cars are NOT deserving of the AMG badge...

Quite honestly...Id rather

  • a WRΧ STi
  • VW Golf R and GTi
  • Chevrolet SS
  • Charger Scatpack and Hellcat
  • 2012 Acura TL SH-AWD

than ANY C Class AMG or  CLA AMG...

Probably costs me less to buy, probably more fun to drive without the fakeness of "performance and luxury"

Then there is the 2 door coupes and roadsters

  • Challenger
  • Mustang
  • Fiat 124 Abarth

And there are  many folk like  me as I dont see that many C Class AMGs on the road where I come from...

But Mustangs, Challengers VW Golf GTis and Rs, WRXs are EVERYWHERE...

And yes....people drive their V8 Mustangs and Challengers in the winter here....so AWD is not THAT big a factor...

It is...but that is where the WRΧs come in...and winter beaters...

I dont have the garage space for a winter beater and a summer car...hence the Acura TL SH-AWD...

An no...the SH-AWD was for the 3.7 liter V6 with 305 naturally aspirated horses and NOT for the winter as the regular TL came with the 3.5 liter and 275-285 horses...

 

How are they getting spanked by Camaros and Mustangs?  First off the Camaro and Mustang aren't luxury cars.   So they aren't really that comparable.  Look at the interior and luxury feature list on a C-class vs a Camaro, not even close.  Secondly a C63 out performs a Camaro SS in some ways, can't match a 1LE, but then again the C-class is a luxury sedan first, not a sports car.  AMG makes the GT if you want a hardcore sports car.

Agreed, AMG does have performance SUVs, something you can't find at GM, and something Cadillac should have.

And it is good that cars like the 4 cylinder Camaro, the Miata, Golf GTI, WRX, etc exist because they have fun to drive at an affordable price.  An AMG car or Porsche is out of reach for the masses.

Here is a question, is the Chevrolet brand getting diluted but the Sonic and Spark?  Is Chevy losing Corvette sales because they sell sub compact bottom feeders like that and perennial rental car Malibus in the same dealer?  I always hear Mercedes haters saying CLA kills the brand, but never complain about a $100,000 Corvette next to a $13,000 Spark and a $19,000 City Express rebadged Nissan at the same dealership.

 

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Nope...not luxury cars...performance cars...JUST LIKE a C Class AMG...

Because a C Class is NOT a luxury car either...

It pretends to be luxury....

Listen SMK...

You hold the entry level shyte to high standards....I dont...

I really dont care for this discussion...

A C Class is nothing but an econobox for me...nothing YOU will say will change the way I feel...

YOU will not change your  views either no mattter what I say also...

The difference is that Mercedes Benz will NEVER get my money with them peddling econoboxes to me pretending they are luxury cars...entry level bullshyte brainwashing techniques...

A Camaro ZL1 1LE has a high price tag because of the performance goodies that are engineered on it...I dont care if aint it luxury...ditto for a 4 door  Charger Hellcat or Chevy SS...

I dont need a badge to make me feel good.

Kudos for all the latte swilling idiots out there that need to be coddled with entry level luxury fakery...

When a lowly  Chevy...spanks an almighty AMG...then AMG in my eyes aint almighty...

It aint a good thing for AMG to lose to a Chevy...

THIS is how I sees it...

You dont want to see it that way?

Good for you...if you happen to own a  C Class AMG and is confronted with a Camaro...just make sure the Camaro is of a 4 cylinder variety...because if it has a V8...he dont have to be a good driver to beat you...YOU on the other hand has to be INCREDIBLE...

And you know what....HE has NOTHING to lose....he drives a lowly Chevy...'tis you that spent an arm and a leg on a supposed performance machine...

Luxury you say?

Im sure the dude driving the V8 cares more for the rumble of his V8 rather than leatherette seats...

And if YOU havent learned that lesson yet...then you are still a young at mind...

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Car and Driver Lighting Lap times from this month's issue:

2016 Cadillac ATS-V sedan:   2:59.8

2015 Mercedes C63 sedan:    2:59.2

2017 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio   2:58.6

 

2016 Cadillac CTS-V:              2:56.8

2018 Mercedes-AMG E63 S:   2:55.4  (fastest sedan ever recorded) 

 

2018 Chevy Camaro ZL1 1LE:  2:45.7

2015 Corvette Z06:                  2:44.6

2018 Mercedes-AMG GT R:    2:43.4

2015 Porsche 918 Spyder      2:43.1 seconds (all time record holder)  

 

The fastest AMG coupe beats the fastest Camaro and fastest Corvette ever.   And it doesn't end there, Mercedes has Project One!

0-200 kph acceleration times:

Camaro ZL1:  13.1 seconds

C7 Corvette Z06:  10.2 seconds

Porsche 911 Turbo S  9.3 seconds

Ferarri LaFerrari  6.9 seconds

Bugatti Chiron 6.5 seconds

Project One   < 6 seconds

See the gap? 

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You think you helped your argument with that post?

37 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

2018 Chevy Camaro ZL1 1LE:  2:45.7

2015 Corvette Z06:                  2:44.6

2018 Mercedes-AMG GT R:    2:43.4

That is a 2-3 year old Vette while the 2018 Mercedes-AMG GT R is new....unless of course that is a typo...

Anyway...the ZR-1 is about to be released...but it dont matter...the Mercedes-AMG GT R is priced at 157 000 US dollars while the Z06 is HALF that price...

Not to mention the  Camaro...

That would be 2 CHEVROLETS on that list versus 1 AMG...

One could buy both  Chevys and still have enough  money left over to tune the Z06 to BEAT the Mercedes-AMG GT R around that track...

 

45 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

0-200 kph acceleration times:

Camaro ZL1:  13.1 seconds

C7 Corvette Z06:  10.2 seconds

Porsche 911 Turbo S  9.3 seconds

Ferarri LaFerrari  6.9 seconds

Bugatti Chiron 6.5 seconds

Project One   < 6 seconds

 1st point

Project One not out yet...not due for another couple of years...

2nd point...

This time..the same 2 Chevys but NO AMG

3rd point...

The mid-engined C8 will be out the same time the Project One will be out...

It will come close to the Project One's time plus the ZR-1 will be there  making 4 Chevys on that list to just that 1 AMG...

49 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

2016 Cadillac ATS-V sedan:   2:59.8

2015 Mercedes C63 sedan:    2:59.2

2017 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio   2:58.6

 

2016 Cadillac CTS-V:              2:56.8

2018 Mercedes-AMG E63 S:   2:55.4  (fastest sedan ever recorded) 

 

2018 Chevy Camaro ZL1 1LE:  2:45.7

2015 Corvette Z06:                  2:44.6

2018 Mercedes-AMG GT R:    2:43.4

2015 Porsche 918 Spyder      2:43.1 seconds (all time record holder)  

 

My My...The C63 AMG barely beats an ATS V...no need to mention the Camaro ZL1

And you said there was 2 more C Class AMGs to choose from?

I thought the C63 AMG was GOD the way you go about it!!!

I like MY point of view better..AMG is diluted....

 

 

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The C63 S sedan was the only one they had tested, the old C63 black series was actually faster (2:58.0)  but that was a 2012 car, not really relevant now.  Everything else on the list I posted is current generation.  The 2014 Mercedes SL63 ran a 2:59.1 and has had a refresh since then.  For a convertible that is really fast.

When the Camaro gets 4 doors then it can compete with the C63.  The C63 beats the M3 and ATS-V, its direct competitors.  If you look at all around car, not just lap time, look at refinement, rear seat room, luxury features, interior, etc, and compare a C63 to a Camaro and they aren't in the same league.  If your sole purpose for buying a car is going on track days, then the Camaro 1LE is the way to go.

The C8 isn't going to be close to Project One, I think you don't realize how fast Project One is.  A Koenigsegg One:1 with a 3,000 lb weight and 1,340 hp does 0-200 kph in 6.6 seconds.  The Project One is nearly a second faster than that.  And Project One is designed for corners, not straight line or top speed.  And Project One can travel on battery alone for 15 miles.

If Chevy racing is so great, there is a spot in Formula 1, they could even take over Sauber or Haas and go from there.  Bring it on, I would love to see more people challenge Mercedes.  

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I dont think you understand the meaning of performance car...or maybe you do but is sour that a Chevy defeats AMG...

I dont think you understand what Corvette stands for...

And we dont have ANY specs of a C8 Vette...

Using your OWN proof....Chevys in fact dominate on tracks...so phoque off with your designed for corners  nit straight line shyte

Chevrolet races in enough leagues...F1 aint neccessary...especially how Bernie and his Jail Bird Nazi lover run things...Chevy with two cars...Corvette and Camaro...tear up on German shyte...all for the fraction of the price...and Chevrolet aftermarket performance support really make a mess with German shyte...

Sorry SMK...

Chevrolet has just as deep heritage in speed and performance as Benz does...Louis Chevrolet was a Swiss-American race car driver, co-founder of the Chevrolet Motor Car Company in 1911, and a founder in 1916 of the Frontenac Motor Corporation, which made racing parts for Ford's Model T.

Anyway you slice it dude...

You mess with Chevy...your nose gets bloodied...

 

 

 

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Are we talking about a theoretical car? I don't see no C8 for sale yet. If, when, where, how... it's not out yet but an AMG GT sure as hell is and that's one badass car. Bests anything from the good ole U S of A has right now because Ford won't let anybody test their GT. 

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Given GM's history with mid-engine Corvettes, I assume the C8 will be cancelled before it gets into production.. 

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56 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Given GM's history with mid-engine Corvettes, I assume the C8 will be cancelled before it gets into production.. 

Mercedes has been teasing mid-engined concepts EVEN LONGER than Chevrolet, tho, but none have made it to production. Here's a whole room full, foreground one was from '65:

 

Screen Shot 2017-09-01 at 8.51.02 PM.png

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12 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

I dont think you understand the meaning of performance car...or maybe you do but is sour that a Chevy defeats AMG...

I dont think you understand what Corvette stands for...

And we dont have ANY specs of a C8 Vette...

Using your OWN proof....Chevys in fact dominate on tracks...so phoque off with your designed for corners  nit straight line shyte

Chevrolet races in enough leagues...F1 aint neccessary...especially how Bernie and his Jail Bird Nazi lover run things...Chevy with two cars...Corvette and Camaro...tear up on German shyte...all for the fraction of the price...and Chevrolet aftermarket performance support really make a mess with German shyte...

Sorry SMK...

Chevrolet has just as deep heritage in speed and performance as Benz does...Louis Chevrolet was a Swiss-American race car driver, co-founder of the Chevrolet Motor Car Company in 1911, and a founder in 1916 of the Frontenac Motor Corporation, which made racing parts for Ford's Model T.

Anyway you slice it dude...

You mess with Chevy...your nose gets bloodied...

 

 

 

Depends on how you define performance.  Personally I would take a Mercedes SL over an AMG GT because I'd rather have a comfortable cruiser with more luxury than a hardcore feel every pot hole sports car.  AMG is working with cars designed to be luxury cruisers first and modifying to be sporty.  

The one exception, besides Project One, is the GT which AMG did from scratch and it sets faster lap times than a great majority of cars on any track including the Nurburgring where it beats every Chevy ever made. 

If your definition of performance is lap times are all that matter on a budget than the Camaro is the way to go.

11 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Are we talking about a theoretical car? I don't see no C8 for sale yet. If, when, where, how... it's not out yet but an AMG GT sure as hell is and that's one badass car. Bests anything from the good ole U S of A has right now because Ford won't let anybody test their GT. 

We seem to be.  But it is pointless.  The Project One is in territory no road car has ever seen.  This is faster acceleration than a Bugatti Chiron with handling better than an Ariel Atom and gas mileage better than a Prius.  Basically that is what they have built.

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Okay you were doing good until you said better gas mileage than a Prius... There is no way you could daily drive that and achieve 50mpg. Yeah yeah yeah.. it's got a theoretically range of 18 miles of full EV but when that runs out there is no way it is still a 30mpg+ car. No. Freaking. Way. 

Yeah, this gets better fuel mileage for 18 miles, heck probably up to about 25 miles if you drive this like a little girl and keep a light foot beyond the EV range. 

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"and gas mileage better than a Prius."

 

Well, there we have it folks. The furthest from reality statement of the year. 

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The Porsche 918 gets 67 mpg-e with full charge, the Project One will beat that, it weighs over 1,000 lbs less and has more batteries.  The Porsche 918 on gas only still does 26 mpg combined, the Project One should be able to beat that since it 1/3 the displacement and the weight advantage.  

Perhaps Volt would have been a better comparison than Prius since it is a plug in hybrid.

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12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The Porsche 918 gets 67 mpg-e with full charge, the Project One will beat that, it weighs over 1,000 lbs less and has more batteries.  The Porsche 918 on gas only still does 26 mpg combined, the Project One should be able to beat that since it 1/3 the displacement and the weight advantage.  

Perhaps Volt would have been a better comparison than Prius since it is a plug in hybrid.

Better if we all just stop using the fictional EPA ratings since they do not seem to ever materialize. 

Believe it when you actually see it in real world driving.

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13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The Porsche 918 gets 67 mpg-e with full charge, the Project One will beat that, it weighs over 1,000 lbs less and has more batteries.  The Porsche 918 on gas only still does 26 mpg combined, the Project One should be able to beat that since it 1/3 the displacement and the weight advantage.  

Perhaps Volt would have been a better comparison than Prius since it is a plug in hybrid.

Let me say this only once because I am not going to waste my time here. No way a 1000HP Hypercar gets anywhere near what a Volt gets in overall MPGs, much less a Prius. You are literally just pulling numbers out of thin air.

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Footnote to the MPG statement. The Porsche 918 gets only 22 MPG (just saw that cap posted the same thing), not 26 as SMK claims while a Volt gets 37MPG gas only. The Project One will not get anywhere close to the Volt. 

Edited by surreal1272
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Not a chance. Plus, a 1.6L turbo.. that thing will NEED boost to move anything.. This will be light, very light but batteries still aren't feathers so it's tough to imagine it being some sub 3000lb car with batteries and motors. 

MT weighed a 918 at 3791lbs. So we can assume lighter than that but how much lighter? So to move, let's say, 3500lbs with a 1.6L it'll need boost almost all the time. Not max or peak boost but a n/a 1.6L v6 that spins to the heavens needs boost because zero torque at low rpm. 

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I expect the only way to get a decent MPG for this Hypercar is if they put in the supercapacitors from the EV F1 racing that give a boost to the electric motors, then you might get a .25% increase in MPG while you get a huge boost in performance.

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I can't imagine anyone buying a 'hypercar' would care about gas mileage--they are mostly stored, catch on fire, taken to shows, or driven in places like Dubai where fuel costs are negligible.

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Project one is estimated to be under 2,800 lbs.  One estimate was at 2,650 lbs.  F1 technology.

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7 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

I can't imagine anyone buying a 'hypercar' would care about gas mileage--they are mostly stored, catch on fire, taken to shows, or driven in places like Dubai where fuel costs are negligible.

Ive refrained to continue to talk about this as @CCAP and @SMK treat me like IM THE FANBOY....

Ive bit my lip on this yet both CCAP's choice words and SMK' attitude aint nothing but fanboyism...

On 9/12/2017 at 11:14 PM, oldshurst442 said:

I dont think you understand the meaning of performance car...or maybe you do but is sour that a Chevy defeats AMG...

I dont think you understand what Corvette stands for...

And we dont have ANY specs of a C8 Vette...

This is what I said...

Firstly...the Project One is as nonexistent as the C8...

Secondly...the link below will explain what it is what I meant by

On 9/12/2017 at 11:14 PM, oldshurst442 said:

I dont think you understand what Corvette stands for...

Which Im glad you said this as the aforementioned link will also address what you said...

7 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

I can't imagine anyone buying a 'hypercar' would care about gas mileage--they are mostly stored, catch on fire, taken to shows, or driven in places like Dubai where fuel costs are negligible.

 

http://www.autoextremist.com/
 

Quote

 

But then again, left to its own devices, Mercedes-Benz’ propensity to do stupid things knows no bounds. They also chose the Frankfurt show to unveil the Mercedes-AMG Project ONE, which had Mercedes PR minions crowing that, for the first time, a "two-seater supersports show car brings the very latest and efficient, fully-fledged Formula 1 hybrid technology from the race track to the road almost par for par to represent the highlight of AMG's 50th anniversary." Not that anyone asked for another supercar that has 1000HP, goes over 217 mph and costs $2.5 million, but Mercedes wanted us all to know that when it deigns to do it we should all bow down and genuflect at the sheer splendor of it all

Mercedes insists that the machine "combines outstanding racetrack performance and day-to-day suitable Formula 1 hybrid technology with exemplary efficiency. This is a world first." Except that bringing F1 technology from the track to the street is a nonstarter. As in, what's the point? And to what end? So the biggest swinging dick "enthusiasts" can fulfill their destiny by spending millions on another trophy car that never sees the light of day – or the road – and sits in the garage just long enough before heading to auction? And the Project One is only "a world first" until the next trophy supercar emerges.

 

 But MOSTLY for THIS LINK ABOUT CORVETTE!

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a12024898/this-generation-doesnt-remember-a-bad-corvette/

 

If we are truly real to ourselves...not fanboys, not trolls trying to outdo another internet persona...BUT TRULY REAL...one will take the time to read that Road And Track opinion piece and truly stop the idiocy of trying to yell louder whose penis is bigger...

 

The Corvette...well....you folk figure it out....if you truly are real car enthusiasts...

Edited by oldshurst442
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@oldshurst442 I think somewhere in time Greek and Germans have gone back and forth over who has the biggest Sausage. War is a bitch!

:roflmao: 

Signed your friendly PNW German! :P 

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2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Ive refrained to continue to talk about this as @CCAP and @SMK treat me like IM THE FANBOY....

Ive bit my lip on this yet both CCAP's choice words and SMK' attitude aint nothing but fanboyism...

This is what I said...

Firstly...the Project One is as nonexistent as the C8...

Secondly...the link below will explain what it is what I meant by

Which Im glad you said this as the aforementioned link will also address what you said...

 

http://www.autoextremist.com/
 

 But MOSTLY for THIS LINK ABOUT CORVETTE!

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a12024898/this-generation-doesnt-remember-a-bad-corvette/

 

If we are truly real to ourselves...not fanboys, not trolls trying to outdo another internet persona...BUT TRULY REAL...one will take the time to read that Road And Track opinion piece and truly stop the idiocy of trying to yell louder whose penis is bigger...

 

The Corvette...well....you folk figure it out....if you truly are real car enthusiasts...

Actually, the Project One is more real than the C8 in one sense--nothing has publically been announced about the C8, no concept has been shown, so it's just vaporware at this point...

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      The GLC 350e gets an increase in all-electric range to 28-30 miles on the NEDC rating, EPA rating is yet to be determined. Power comes from a 2.0-liter turbo 4-cylinder rated for 208 horsepower at 5,500 rpm and 258 lbs.-ft of torque at 1,200 - 4,000 rpm. Inside the 9-speed automatic is an electric motor that adds 121 horsepower and 325 lbs.-ft of torque for a total system output of 315 horsepower and 516 lbs.-ft of torque.  Acceleration to 60 is estimated at 5.6 seconds. 
      Level one charging (household plug) from 10% takes 7.75 hours to reach 100%. On a level two charger, that time drops to just 2.25 hours. The MBUX system can help drivers find a charging station by simply saying "Hey Mercedes, find charging stations nearby."

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