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GM Keynote @ CES 2022 is Virtual, yet we see the Chevrolet Truck and SUV to lead their BEV Portfolio! :Comments


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David is the individual who claimed Rivian had "8-ft test mules out now", so I asked if there were any pics. 

You know; more information. 

I think the claim was erroneous- that's DOUBLE the length they have now.

Rivian (like I said) isn't aiming for contractors / commercial truck buyers- they don't need an 8-ft bed (again; t'wasn't I who said they were working on one). But at LEAST a 5.5' bed (keeping the crew cab) would be a lot more useful. 

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Not sure why you say it's not full-size: 82" wide, 76" tall, 136" wheelbase (Silverado starts at 139"). Really only the tiny bed is what's lacking.

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11 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

...He also doesn't own an HD anymore...

HD, regular, whatever. Still a full size. With less than an 8 foot bed? 

Edited by Robert Hall
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2 hours ago, balthazar said:

David is the individual who claimed Rivian had "8-ft test mules out now", so I asked if there were any pics. 

You know; more information. 

I think the claim was erroneous- that's DOUBLE the length they have now.

Rivian (like I said) isn't aiming for contractors / commercial truck buyers- they don't need an 8-ft bed (again; t'wasn't I who said they were working on one). But at LEAST a 5.5' bed (keeping the crew cab) would be a lot more useful. 

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Not sure why you say it's not full-size: 82" wide, 76" tall, 136" wheelbase (Silverado starts at 139"). Really only the tiny bed is what's lacking.

While I have not found the stories again, I do now that somewhere in the Rivian threads I had posted what was in the Bloomberg / WallStreet / CNN interviews where RJ the CEO said they are exploring alternative bed lengths to add down the road due to the flexible nature of their Skateboard platform. All one has to do is look at the Fleet section where you have your choice of 500 / 700 / 900 cubic feet vans on the same platform and see how much bigger they are and the fact that you can get them in FWD or AWD format for delivery services. AWD is focused on the Northern States where ice and snow make delivery more challenging. As such, I see them around Seattle all the time since this is the HQ market.

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Even in the testing in California where they have been caught with an R1T which you can clearly see is much shorter than the Van. So, 6- and 8-foot trucks are possible, and I tend to believe since the photo slipped of the king cab or extended cab version, that they would also have other formats.

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20 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

If Im to be answering SMK's question about what General Motors SUV/CUV and pick up trucks are capable off roading vehicles, Id be saying that historically, General Motors hasnt really engineered segment busting off roading vehicles.  For the military, yes.  And currently they have a huge military contract to supply troop vehicles for the military that seem to have awesome off roading chops.  Colorado pick-up truck based. And they are working on a Silverado truck based model too.  And most radically speaking, these will also be battery electric.

But to return to the question, nothing in history that GM has made over the years that captures awards for off roading quite as often as a Jeep.  There were a handful over the years though. But currently nothing in the civilian market.

But does it matter that GM has no Wrangler or Bronco competitor?

 

It's not about what they built in the past, it is about what the market wants now.  The Wrangler outsells every GM vehicle except the Silverado and Sierra, if you add Gladiator and Wrangler together they outsell the Sierra.  The Bronco is off to a strong sales start, Toyota sold 129k units of an 11 year old SUV that they probably paid off the tooling for in 2015.  

GM needs a Blazer that fits the nameplate.  And they aren't alone, Nissan better get the Xterra back fast and I think Toyota could revive the FJ Cruiser with a removable roof or soft roof option.  And whether those are all gas, EV or both, whatever, but Nissan and GM especially are leaving money on the table right now, Toyota could probably get even more (no Land Cruiser here, only the Lexus version, no FJ, etc.)

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20 hours ago, smk4565 said:

It's not about what they built in the past, it is about what the market wants now.

Using your logic, I will ask you this. Why did your favorite brand put out their first real EV for the low demand sedan market? I mean, all this talk about what the market wants now but I have YET to see this level of criticism directed toward your favorite brand, who decided a sedan was the best idea for their first real EV.

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4 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Using your logic, I will ask you this. Why did your favorite brand put out their first real EV for the low demand sedan market? I mean, all this talk about what the market wants now but I have YET to see this level of criticism directed toward your favorite brand, who decided a sedan was the best idea for their first real EV.

They make 9 SUV's right now.  They have 2 electric SUVs coming over the next year and the EQE, so they'll have the same number of EV's on the market as Tesla.   They probably went EQS first due to the range and aerodynamics which makes sense and to get EQE out quickly after it due to how many parts are probably shared between the 2. 

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14 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

They make 9 SUV's right now.  They have 2 electric SUVs coming over the next year and the EQE, so they'll have the same number of EV's on the market as Tesla.   They probably went EQS first due to the range and aerodynamics which makes sense and to get EQE out quickly after it due to how many parts are probably shared between the 2. 

Yet behind the American Big boys as with two EVs, they will catch up to Ford that has two out now.

In regard to Mercedes versus GM, by the end of this year, GM will have Bolt, BOLT EUV, Hummer EV Truck & SUV, Chevrolet Truck EV next year, Equinox EV also next year, Blazer EV end of 2023 and many more to come by 2025.

That shows Mercedes is very much behind and will have to play catch up after getting caught with their pants down on Dieselgate.

Catching up to Tesla, how about Mercedes catching up to Ford and GM. 🙄

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So via LinkedIn,  Walmart CEO has confirmed expanding in home grocery delivery creating 3,000 new roles and will use BrightDrop delivery vans to make this happen giving GM another big contract of EV vans.

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dougmcmillon_walmart-to-expand-inhome-delivery-reaching-activity-6884590382848589824-VEOR

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2 hours ago, David said:

Yet behind the American Big boys as with two EVs, they will catch up to Ford that has two out now.

In regard to Mercedes versus GM, by the end of this year, GM will have Bolt, BOLT EUV, Hummer EV Truck & SUV, Chevrolet Truck EV next year, Equinox EV also next year, Blazer EV end of 2023 and many more to come by 2025.

That shows Mercedes is very much behind and will have to play catch up after getting caught with their pants down on Dieselgate.

Catching up to Tesla, how about Mercedes catching up to Ford and GM. 🙄

Mercedes will be fine.  Their EV's cost what their gasoline cars cost.  Chevy and Ford's EV's  (and Hyundai and VW) cost double what their gas cars cost.  GMC never sold a vehicle over $100k before, Cadillac tried the Allante, XLR, STS-V, CT6 and those all bombed because outside of the Escalade, no one is paying $100k adjusted for inflation for a Cadillac.  So I am not sure where all these buyers for $100k Cadillac and GMC's are going to come from.

 The Mustang Mach-E was the worst selling Ford SUV last year, the Mustang coupe had it's worst sales year in history and still outsold the Mach-E by almost double.  In December the Mach-E was the worse selling Ford outside of the GT which I think is out of production and the Fusion which for sure is out of production.  And simple reason for that, most of the car buying public isn't looking to spend $50-60k on a small Ford crossover.   Same reason the VW iD4 is a dud, and the Hyundai Ionic 5 will be a dud.  

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Blackwings are solidly over $100K and Cadillac will sell every one they make, no problem.
And GMC has been selling over $90K already, plus the Denali Ultimate is coming sometime this year (starts at $80K). You can push an Escalade up nearly$50K in options, so you know the Ultimate will go over $100K with ease. And if you don't think GMC buyers spend big money, then why are the AT4 & Denali like 70% of all Sierra sales?

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Mercedes' issues are considerable- they claim they are 'the best' yet they've been riding on their coattails for a while now. They're years behind in getting BEs out, those BEs aren't class leading and they don't seem to know how to get them there, and the design language is confused and chaotic (when it isn't simply bland & tired). They also killed off all the V8s across the board, including AMGs; cars that only existed to showcase V8s.

Vainly, they're going to try and sell 'AMG' BEs that are going to bring a slim fraction of a percent of the performance gain over non-AMG variants, compared to the gains the IC variants brought. AMG is done.

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15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Mercedes will be fine.  Their EV's cost what their gasoline cars cost.  Chevy and Ford's EV's  (and Hyundai and VW) cost double what their gas cars cost.  GMC never sold a vehicle over $100k before, Cadillac tried the Allante, XLR, STS-V, CT6 and those all bombed because outside of the Escalade, no one is paying $100k adjusted for inflation for a Cadillac.  So I am not sure where all these buyers for $100k Cadillac and GMC's are going to come from.

 The Mustang Mach-E was the worst selling Ford SUV last year, the Mustang coupe had it's worst sales year in history and still outsold the Mach-E by almost double.  In December the Mach-E was the worse selling Ford outside of the GT which I think is out of production and the Fusion which for sure is out of production.  And simple reason for that, most of the car buying public isn't looking to spend $50-60k on a small Ford crossover.   Same reason the VW iD4 is a dud, and the Hyundai Ionic 5 will be a dud.  

YOU ARE SO FULL OF BS!!!

GM has plenty of rides selling north of $100K and GMC is proving under the Denali to be one of their best profit margin lines of auto's.

Ford #'s for 2021 show more people are choosing Green Mach-e to quote their own press release of numbers:

December 2021 Press Release (ford.com)

Mach-e sold 27,140 for 2021 increase of 904,566.7%

Mustang sold 61,090 for 2021 decreased 14.2%

Meanwhile Mrecedes-Benz really is not increasing sales in the US, Van sales dropped 20+% in 2021 and EV sales for the US is a pathetic 443 EQS sold.

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GLOBALLY, Sales are down 5%, to quote the MB press release on their BEV's:

Deliveries of Mercedes-Benz plug-in hybrid and electric passenger cars reached a record 227,458 units (+69.3%) of which 48,936 were Mercedes-EQ battery electric passenger cars (BEV) (+154.8%). Including smart and Mercedes-Benz Vans, total BEV sales rose above 99,000 units.

The bulk of this was China with Europe coming in second and still MB does not have anything for the masses in Europe.

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17 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Their EV's cost what their gasoline cars cost.

And your proof of this is what exactly? The EQS? It has no gasoline equivalent. The closest thing to it is the S-Class and it sure as hell isn't that. The EQB? That will start, minimum $50K while the GLB starts at $38K. Why are you lying?

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20 hours ago, smk4565 said:

They have 2 electric SUVs coming

There's the part I was looking for. It's "coming" but not before they released a low demand ugly ass sedan. Again, your criticism of MB does not equal the criticism you have bestowed upon literally everyone else.

 

And congrats. That EQB will have a whole 26 miles more range as the equally paltry ranged Jaguar E-Pace. The "best or nothing" right?

Edited by surreal1272
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17 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The Mustang Mach-E was the worst selling Ford SUV last year

Yet they sold every single one that they made. Guess that fact never occurred to you. And their worst selling SUV still sold more than anything out of Germany, mainly because the biggest player doesn’t even have an EV SUV yet. 

17 hours ago, smk4565 said:

no one is paying $100k adjusted for inflation for a Cadillac

Again, BS. Despite the struggles of their sedan sales overall, they sold every V series and Blackwing model produced so you are lying about that too. 

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1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

Yet they sold every single one that they made. Guess that fact never occurred to you. And their worst selling SUV still sold more than anything out of Germany, mainly because the biggest player doesn’t even have an EV SUV yet. 

Again, BS. Despite the struggles of their sedan sales overall, they sold every V series and Blackwing model produced so you are lying about that too. 

Every car company sells every car they make.  Tesla sold 190,000 Model Y's in the USA in 2021, Mach-E 27,000.  And the current wait for a Model Y is 7 months, yet people are still waiting for it, rather than buying a Ford or VW iD4.  So when the gas cars are gone, I don't see how Ford competes with Tesla.

Blackwing was really low volume, like in the hundreds, CT4 was down 48% in Q4 (although up for the year,  not sure if it had a full sales year in 2020) and CT5 was down 65% on Q4. Shouldn't Blackwing be elevating those cars and getting more people to buy them?   And where are the V-series SUVs?  

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2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Tesla sold 190,000 Model Y's in the USA in 2021,

Is that Model Y & Model 3 combined? I see thru Oct the Model Y was only at 105K - I seriously doubt they moved another 85K in just 2 months.

 

21 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I am not sure where all these buyers for $100k Cadillac and GMC's are going to come from.

 Like you said; GM will sell every one they build.

Edited by balthazar
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2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Every car company sells every car they make.  Tesla sold 190,000 Model Y's in the USA in 2021, Mach-E 27,000.  And the current wait for a Model Y is 7 months, yet people are still waiting for it, rather than buying a Ford or VW iD4.  So when the gas cars are gone, I don't see how Ford competes with Tesla.

Blackwing was really low volume, like in the hundreds, CT4 was down 48% in Q4 (although up for the year,  not sure if it had a full sales year in 2020) and CT5 was down 65% on Q4. Shouldn't Blackwing be elevating those cars and getting more people to buy them?   And where are the V-series SUVs?  

FFS. Where do you come up with this BS? Low volume? High volume? Who cares? You said they couldn’t sell $100K cars and I gave you just two that did. Besides, you never use that “low volume” excuse when folks bring your precious G-Wagen. Sorry but I’m done pandering to your endless bar moving. You said GM couldn’t and I and others showed you that they did and will continue to do so, end of story. 

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7 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Is that Model Y & Model 3 combined? I see thru Oct the Model Y was only at 105K - I seriously doubt they moved another 85K in just 2 months.

 

 Like you said; GM will sell every one they build.

Car and Driver has an estimate of 172,000 Model Y sold, Forbes best selling car lists estimates Model Y at 190,000 since Tesla doesn't give exact numbers.  Either way it is the best selling EV, and it dwarfs 27,000 Mach-E and 17,000 iD4, which are both a lot cheaper than a Model Y.  And I expect it will be the same story with the Ionic 5 and Kia EV6 next year, those are too expensive to do any significant volume, $50k for a  Hyundai/Kia hatchback, I don't think so.  

Only way these mainstream brands to compete is get their price down, if Chevy really delivers on a $30k Equinox that could be game changing.   But that would be half the price of a Model Y, that seems like it would be hard to do.  But if they can, they can capture the consumer base that can't afford a Tesla, which is what main stream car companies should be trying to do, rather than go head to head with Tesla. 

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5 hours ago, surreal1272 said:
23 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The Mustang Mach-E was the worst selling Ford SUV last year

Yet they sold every single one that they made. Guess that fact never occurred to you. And their worst selling SUV still sold more than anything out of Germany, mainly because the biggest player doesn’t even have an EV SUV yet.

Kind of like the G Wagen.. Sells like crap so it's the worst, right? *eyeroll* 

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