Leaderboard

Rhymes with Bone.

Nova Time!

'Gone' was my understanding. That's how I've heard it pronounced by podcasters.

I did watch Autoline and Jeremy Clarkson said a couple months back there was one city in China that awarded 1 car license all last year. Once China goes EV the rest will follow, there are 4 times more people there than in the USA and they spend on infrastructure and grow, grow, grow.

I hear you. I understand. I did just that when I took my family to Greece this past summer. Yeah, we did the touristic, historic spots. For my kids to see and learn what is their culture and what place does it have in this crazy big world we live in. But we also did a lot of walking and talking and soul searching and we often took the road of the beaten path, away from the tourists, where the local yokels once did (old donkey trails that even young modern Greeks dont take) to see how Greek villages really function (or used to). We also talked to many local yokels to get their perspective of today's Greece and how they cope in the 2010s. I got to see Greece when I was young, how my mom grew up as a kid. I got to see Greece, how Greece was in the 1970s. I got to see how Greek villages functioned for hundreds, maybe thousands of years. Because when I went to Greece to see where my momma grew up, to meet my grand parents, the island where my mom grew up, her village and the other villages around, and the surrounding islands, well, even in the 1970s, not much had changed since the ancient times. Modern cars and telephones were there. Not all the people had those though. It was a cool experience and although I did not realize it then 100% what I was witnessing, although I did have an idea, 'twas in my late 20s that it dawned on me that old European villages in the 1970s was somewhat going back into time. And I am proud that my kids, to a degree, got to see a tiny glimpse of that. Maybe not live it like I did, but they saw the remnants of the past. Those donkey trails are not used anymore by anybody so somebody that knows what to look for could see the 1970s, the 1960s, and yes nature has taken over so anything older than that is harder to find, but I saw in the 1970s, the 1950s, 1940s, 1920s, 1890s in those villages...so I know its there and I explained that to my kids.

As far as Im concerned...about V12s, V10s, V8s, V6s, I6s, flat 6s, 4 cylinders and inline 5s versus electric motors. If not a Ferrari 12 cylinder, I dont really care for them all that much. Ferrari or bust. V10s. Dont care for them all that much either. Unless its a Mopar V10. OK...I got room for the Porsche Carrera GT and the Lexus LFA. The BMW V10? ? Nah...I think I prefer an electric motored Tesla Model S instead... V8s...well, V8s for me is where its at. From muscle cars, to sports cars, to luxury rides, to classic American boulevard land yacht cruisers, to exotic supercars, the V8s is what I prefer. I do like a good 6 cylinder engine, whether inline or in a Vee or even horizontally opposed, I enjoy a 6 cylinder car. 4 cylinder cars...If I could, Id pass on those. I do enjoy a good 4 cylinder Honda from the 1990s, but that is where I limit myself as an enthusiast. I know there are other great 4 cylinder cars, but 4 cylinder caars aint my bag, baby! And then we have electric motored cars. I think I could enjoy the instant torque and smoothness in my daily driven vehicle. Would it replace the V8 in my heart? Probably not. As I enjoy the V8 sounds too much. The Instantaneous and humongous torque WILL replace the V8 in my heart, but not the sweet sounds that a V8 makes. Will I care for an electric motor personality? Lets be honest... Modern cars, other than the real deal enthusiast cars out there, the V8 Mustang, The V8 Camaro, The V8 Challenger and V8 Charger, The Vette, all the sportcar Porsches, the Miatas, the and all the other high dollar sports cars, there really isnt much personality going on. The small pocket rocket GTis and Civic Sis got some handling spunk going on, but as far as engine personality is concerned, not much distinguishing one from another. Yeah, there are differences, but...(explained later on) The full sized pick-up trucks got V8s. The Bimmers and M-Bs got V8s. The Cadillac Blackwing CT6 is a V8... Explanation: But lets be really really really honest...the way modern consumers want quiet cabins, no vibrations of any kind because modern consumers deem vibrations as low quality and as nuisasances, and the way that most engines all fall into the same displacement categories (example: every manufacturer makes a turbo 2.0 liter 4 cylinder) there really isnt much personality to be had here... The V8 vehicles I mentioned above, even for the V8 pick-up trucks, their personalities are all muted. Faint V8 rumble could only be heard upon acceleration, and that too is toned down. All the noise insulation, noise canceling technologies, vibration free counterbalances and the like...not much individuality is happening... Therefore, I (we as consumers) have been programmed NOT to think about vehicle personality the last 20 years or so. Especially when CUVs and SUVs are being presented to us as viable machines for me to own and we (not me) gobble them up like there is no other freakin' niche...(coupes are dead, convertibles are dead, sedans are dying...at least in decades past, the society then bought all kinds of types too. Today, single, married, young, old, female, male, trans, gay, straight, fat, skinny, short, tall, hairy, bald, smart, dumb, sane, crazy, white, black, latino, asian, north south, east, west, liberal, conservative, democrat, republican, commie, capitalist, we (not me) all buy damned SUVs...) I applaud BMW for keeping the V12 until 2023 or so. Im curious to see what BMW will do to counter the Model S and the Porsche Taycan. Im MORE curious to see what BMW has in store for an EV Rolls Royce. Because I dont think Ill care for an EV BMW sport sedan. They never had me as a fan, but they lost me even more when they decided that SAVs are a thing and they went all fat and bloated for their cars that they now pass off as sports sedans... (minus that BMW 1M and its successor M2 and the E39 M5 and Z8) Im even MORE curious to see how Volkswagen Group goes about EVs and how they handle the "personality" part. They got Bentley. That is in a GT class. 2 and 4 door. Different than a sports sedan but not quite luxo boat cruiser. They got luxo isolation chamber SUV. They got Porsche. Porsche has sports car, roadster, GT, sports sedan and sport crossovers. They are all different from Bentley. They got Audi. A mix and match between Porsche and Bentley. They got VW. What "personality" is VW going to go after with their EVs? I think I will always prefer Tesla over all other EV sport sedans. I think Ill stick to GM and what it will bring to the table with their EVs with Chevy, Buick and Cadillac. Maybe Ford too. But with that being said, I got to see what everybody actually does with EVs, because as of now...Tesla is best! Nobody else comes close.

V12s do that too. Silence and smoothness and torque. Or you can make a V12 roar as loud as you want. I am not arguing that EVs do a much better job at silence and smoothness and torque. Im just saying that in 2019, V12s still have a place. And until Rolls, Bentley, Cadillac, Mercedes get really really serious about induction electric motors, V12s are the top of the heap... Rolls Royce (BMW), Bentley (Audi, Porsche), Mercedes STILL in 2019 do NOT have an electric motored vehicle for sale... And when I say BMW, I do NOT mean an i3 and the really really useless mileaged (range) i8. Nor do I mean an equally useless electric mileaged (range) Porsche 918. In 2019, the ONLY adequate EV to do the job of what a V12 should be doing as what we are talking now about quiet drive, torque and silence and smoothness is a Tesla Model S. But the Model S is sold as a sports sedan to kick exotic supercar and muscle car ass rather than luxo boat isolation chamber. The Model S also is more or less second tier luxury on the inside rather than top tier. The Porsche Taycan is gonna be a sports sedan...and...not on sale yet. So...luxo boat isolation chambers have no choice BUT to be V12s... In 2023...like I said, we have about another 4 years to get there. As of now, V12s are the top of the heap for what we are talking about in this thread.

Maybe in a Ferrari a V12 makes sense for noise. But in a 7-series, S-class, Rolls or Bentley you want silent drive and torque. EV does that.

Gotta start somewhere, I can see Lyft and Uber doing this to remove the people part that has also brought issues with rape, assault, even death. Down south in Tacoma, police are looking for a man who is posing as an Uber driver and raping woman. I can see these companies fully wanting a level 5 auto for their fleet to replace human drivers and insure the safety of the passengers.

To drive? There isn't an ICE out there that can out smooth or out torque an electric of similar size power unit. If you were talking the Ford GT, I may see your point about the visceral feeling of the engine, but these are isolation chambers that pride themselves on removing any feeling of the engine beyond the thrust.

The excess is in the results... not how the sausage is made.

They go into production in a few weeks and will be on sale by the summer.

Idiot POTUS45 and his incompetent business bully approach clearly threatens global trade in ways he is incapable of understanding as he would not do such moronic comments if he was a real businessman. This is so insulting to our country and the world the lack of professional leadership in DC. This approach to jobs, trade, etc. is going to hurt the poor to low income the most as costs across the board will go up. Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic.

Conversions are just aftermarket novelties, though... the subject here are production luxury cars. The Taycan seems interesting, but I wouldn't take one over a Panamera. Likewise, I wouldn't choose an electric BMW 7 series over a V12. Likewise I wouldn't pick a shoddily built Tesla over a well built V8 or V12 luxury car at the various price points Tesla sells at. I just don't see anything premium or luxury about an electric propulsion system..there is a lot of hype currently, and I think they are going to be a growing market segment for a long time, but to me it's nothing special compared to a V8 or V12.

Electric is boring, though compared to 12 cylinders.

@oldshurst442 For me, it has to be Cuba. I have/had numerous friends from Catholic school whose parents came from Cuba and, not to sound like a jerk, they see themselves as Europeans and Spaniards, with over 60% of Cubans having lineage that came (to Cuba) from Spain's Canary Islands, so they have a good sense of self and are therefore much easier to deal with and get along with. As an adult, I look back at what my friends' parents went through in leaving Cuba with the shirts on their backs and how, in short order, they had such upbeat personalities and incredible senses of humor here in the U.S. I want to walk around the places they probably walked around when they lived in Cuba. I'm talking about friendships that go back to childhood. The good news: Summer is 2 months away and it's time to take a trip or two.

Good news. There are many other islands to discover in and around the Caribbean that may or may not be over saturated with dumb ass tourists.

V12s are still usefull. Whether 600 horsepower V8s exist or electric motors will be dominant in the luxury class of vehicles. V12s are still the top of the heap in 2019. We still have a-ways to go to reach 2023 when maybe electric motors will dominate the luxury world. Plus, V12s are not meant for pure speed and fastness. But for smoothness AND speed in a GT car. In a cruiser. But not a bruiser ride. But a smooth, boulevard, cruiser ride and V12s are just about the best there is IN 2019. I aint talking about hybrid technology either. Just pure internal combustion technology. And while it does take 2 turbos for BMW's V12 to get to 600 on 6.6 liters, Im sure BMW could get more than that outta them. But Im not sure BMW wants to dump R&D money on the V12 to achieve that. Ferrari did though. On a 6.5 liter V12 making close to 800 NATURALLY ASPIRATED horsepower. The most NATURALLY ASPIRATED horses EVER to be offered on a road going production vehicle on their GT car. Because the 812 Superfast is a GT car. (but a lackluster torque number as compared to that stupendous horsepower number) Their new big SUV, whatever its called, could possibly use this V12 they got. Why not? They wont sell many, true. But their V12 is still needed. For 2019. It be not a good decision to dump the V12 now. In 2023? well, we arent there yet. Possibly a good decision then.

They can get 600 hp out of a V8, so I don't know how much longer the V12 is needed. Post 2023 it will all be about electric cars, especially on the high end.

Thanks blu- I spent an hour the other night watching utube episodes. Funny stuff. - - - - - '41 DeSoto Business Coupe - love the lines ~