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I would prefer that we ignore it and let Drew delete the post. People loosing thier shit and starting silly fights drives people away from the site.

Huge difference between a four dollar nine volt battery and a twenty thousand dollar Tesla battery. Point is made though. Although I bet if you pulled the history of the ten Rangers built right before mine and the ten Rangers built right after mine...and did it in ten years...there would be a wide wide variety of natural life spans for that Ecoboost four cylinder motor. This is why I only use internal combustion smoke detectors in my home. Those extra pipes through my roof aren't vent stacks for plumbing they are exhaust stacks for the detectors. Getting a little tired of running around the house with a small oil can trying to keep them fueled.

No 9V replaceable batteries are sold with a claimed 10-yr operating lifespan.

^ Agreed, but I have seen this commonly with detectors and LED (and CFL) bulbs. Enough to determine it’s likely not an anomaly. Good deal on BEV certification; that’s as it should be.

It is very interesting to see what is posted by leaders of various battery companies. EV focused writeups on EV battery life, but they seem to deal with the same key details as every other type of battery. How Long Should An Electric Car’s Battery Last? (myev.com) Just How Long Will An EV Battery Last? (insideevs.com) Battery Lifetime: How Long Can Electric Vehicle Batteries Last? (cleantechnica.com) Electric Car Battery Life, Cost of Replacement, Recycling & Leasing | EDF (edfenergy.com) From hearing aids to laptop batteries there are a variety of interesting responses, but the consistent thread I read is that depending on consistency of charging, power surges, extreme use versus a consistent use will all affect battery life. Course cheaper designed batteries tend to not last as long as higher quality batteries. Life Expectancy of Unused Batteries Tom Begley Batteries 424 (audiologyonline.com) CEO of Ray o Vac batteries talking about hearing aid batteries. This is solid from Trip Lite, read for the details, but this is consistent. 1. Ambient Temperature 2. Number of Discharges 3. Age 4. Load Sizing 5. Maintenance 5 Factors that will Shorten the Life of Your UPS Battery (tripplite.com) APC, one of the worlds largest UPS builders and sellers has the following on their battery for life expectancy. What is the expected life of my APC UPS battery? Environment: All Three Phase and Single Phase UPS Models Cause / Resolution: Most APC batteries should last three to five years. There are many factors which affect Battery life including environment and number of discharges. Below are some guidelines to ensure optimum life expectancy: 1. Operating Temperature: The optimum operating temperature for a lead-acid battery is 20-25° C (68-77° F). Elevated temperature reduces longevity. As a guideline, every 8° C (15° F) rise in temperature will cut the battery life in half. A battery which would last for 4 years at 25° C (77° F), will only be good for 2 years if operated at 33° C (95° F). Keep in mind that the battery temperature inside your UPS will always be warmer than the ambient temperature of the location where the UPS is installed. 2. Battery Calibration and Deep Discharge: Only perform runtime calibrations on your UPS one or two times a year, if necessary. Some of our customers want to check their systems to verify that their runtime is sufficient. However, consistently performing these calibrations can significantly decrease the life expectancy of your APC battery. It is also important to remember that a UPS is not designed for constant deep discharges. We do not reccomend using your APC Smart-UPS/Back-UPS as a portable power supply that is repeatedly discharged/recharged (like on a portable equipment cart). These units are designed for emergency use during unexpected power outages or momentary loss of power. 3. Storage: Do not store APC batteries for extended periods of time. New batteries/units should be stored for no more than 6 months from date of purchase, as they ship from the factory at approximately 80% charge. After this period, the battery should be used or it will lose a great deal of its charge . It is not advisable to store batteries that have already been in use. Extended storage without periodic charging can result in shortened life expectancy and erratic battery performance. Temperature also plays a large part in battery degradation during storage: If the ambient temperature during storage is - 15°C to + 30°C (+ 5°F to + 86°F), perform a full recharge cycle at least every six months. In environments where the ambient temperature is + 30°C to + 45°C (+ 86°F to + 113°F), perform a full recharge cycle at least every three months. 4. Load: As the load increases on your UPS, the runtime decreases. It is not recommended that the load exceed 80 percent of the UPS unit’s rated capacity. In the event of a power failure, a UPS loaded to full capacity will discharge the battery very quickly and there is a potential that the life expectancy of the battery will be significantly reduced.

Woo hoo...beautiful sunny day, hit the 50k mark. Jeep is running great.

Reality is complex.

How are battery life claims any different from the many bogus MPG claims for ICE autos? Example? Ford and their "Eco" and "Boost" MPG claims.

Yeah, where's Dwight, and USA-1, and Casa, etc. I know I recently begged a good guy, very long-time poster, to stay, despite the slant. He stayed, but he restricts himself to a very neutral area. Sad when some views are held to a different standard to the point that very good people just don't want to post. It's the varying views that spark discourse. A forum dies when every bird sings the same song. Watch the lower right corner of this space.

Wouldn't it be easier to ignore people and talk about cars? Asking for a friend.

I like this review.

Sure, but obviously 20 internal combustion engines operated by 20 operators over 10 years may involve a 1000 variables all affecting those outcomes. I expect all 20 -sans accidents- to still be operating. This, tho the OEM only basically guarantees it to work for 3 years. I was merely saying that in the most stress-less scenario like I outlined, a L-I battery should be able to perform to it's maximum potential & advertised lifespan. Or at least 90% of that. It's a controlled demonstration cycle.

Okay. That clarifies that. My last one was hard wired with a lithium battery backup. Ran for six years before I moved back to NC. One thing to consider is the maker of said smoke detector and who sources their batteries. Thing is that all of that irrelevant because EV batteries will have a unified standard applied (if not already) unlike smoke detector batteries. There will be more reliable and consistent references and guides for this. Smoke detector batteries will not be subject to the same standards. Your one example doesn't mean there is a widespread issue either without more research.

Random power outages (or surges) over the course of the 79 months (you stated), will 100% affect that battery. Thats one way to kill a battery prematurely. And Porsche dialing back that battery range (from their marketing range) is no different than companies that dial back MPGs for the same reason. Just my opinion though.

^ I can agree with that for the most part.

Good to know. I didn't know they had such a high trailering capacity. 6200 pounds IIRC. Ironically just turned 50k on the Aveo when I went to pick up a chainsaw.

Reality sucks for some and will be hard for those that hate change. Hate is a strong word but is something that we all have to work on as we live in a Multi-Cultural world and really need to learn to accept the differences that drive us. We all cannot expect everyone to change to be like us otherwise the world would be boring, but we can accept to agree to disagree. I do not expect Bill to ever like the EVs that are coming, but I also would not expect him to give up loving ICE auto's. I hope he can eventually come to accept them being part of the auto industry. I hope we all can at least talk about the pro's and con's of EV, BEV, Hybrids, etc. and acknowledge all auto's have their place in society, some more than others. Wishing you all a great weekend.

I would agree with your assessment that especially in this case, there is profiting at the expense of the consumer. Tesla has done this big time. I have much higher expectations for Rivian as RJ, CEO seems to have a much more common sense and grasp on Reality than Musk. Time will tell and Auto batteries are on the EPA cycle certification so I would expect as Ford, GM and many others of the old OEMs join the EV race that batteries will have to last the stated life expectancy.

Sounds pretty cool...I wonder if they will followup w/ a Trackhawk Hellcat version.

MPG is tested & certified; some vehicles get worse, some get better. A lot of variables in the operation of a combustion-engined vehicle (as in a BEV). I don't know that battery life certification is done, but between batteries & light bulbs, it certainly has been my observation that they commonly fall short with FAR less variables in their operation. You cannot 'hyper mile' a light bulb. It's worthy of some examination, IMO.

He's been a little bitter since November 3rd lol. OH NO! I brought up politics! Don't flog me Blu! Oh right. Not worried about the petty stuff.

OH.MY.GOD. Anyway... I went back and read my previous pertinent comments in this thread (it's an oldie) and I still hold the same opinion. That is all, enjoy your wknd.

Im here for both. Pics, vintage iron. New iron. But news too. Lots of informed peeps in here. Lots of good points of views...when there is actual discourse. Or...have I made THE mistake of thinking that there is lots of informed peeps in here and perhaps Im waisting my time posting in here? Eventually, I will stop posting in here if things do not improve... Ill repeat, Im sick and tired of walking on eggshells on what I can or cannot post in here JUST to appease a certain poster...

I want to apologize. But I wont. Like I said. Im sick and tired of walking on eggshells on what I can or cannot post. Im sick and tired of reading abolute BULLSHYTE regarding EVs on here. I like to share, discuss automobiles. I like to LEARN about new cars. I do NOT want my intelligence insulted. Im sick of it! There is GREAT automobile content here. Many different points of views that I lust and admire in here. @ocnblu used to be enjoyable. Now he is just a troll. Like what the phoque?! And his trolling, any trolling just triggers me! Tell he to stop his shytty antics! His shytty friend @ykX defends @ocnblu antics by saying shyte like he has a strong passion for not liking EVs...and then proceeds to school me. Phoque him too. What are we...in grade school? I NEVER insult anybody that does NOT insult me first! And I know you respect me, and thank-you for that... But anytime I come back trying to contribute nicely, I get to read the same ole shyte lies he phoquing spews... I could deal with the childish remarks on him not liking a Toyota Hilux, him trolling me about it. But Im really sick and tired of reading his bullshyte lies regarding actual cars news... And no! Why should I ignore ANY poster???!!! He is a grown ass man. Why dont he behave like one?

This is a more accurate reality. The resident asshole @ocnblu wants us to believe that EVs are not viable. Like at all... Just because HE hates EVs. Lets discuss EVS with TRUTH. NOT HALF-TRUTHES! im SICK AND PHOQUING tired of walking on eggshells on what I can or cannot post in this PHOIQUING cheers at phoquing gears forums without getting a laughy emogi vote from that asshole, or a negative downvote, or simply he ignoring ANTHING I have to say about anything really. He wants EVERYONE to toe the line of what HE wants to here. Ive been accuse of making it personal. The other asshole @ykX said I make it personal Another phoquing LIAR taking his forum friend's side. Never do I take things personal. But Ill draw a line where I feel like my intelligence has been insulted. And Ill call anybody up on it. Drama? You bet! I apologize to those that have to endure this that dont want to. But hey! Dont tell me this! Tell @ocnblu to grow the phoque up and STOP defending his antics! I aint the phoquing problem here! I get ganged up on. ENOUGH ALREADY!

If I wanted automotive reality I would read the Detroit Free Press or talk to someone inside the industry. I'm just here for the psychosis and delusional ranting...and the pics of vintage iron. They will sell a million Rivians in 2022...but it will be outsold by the Pontiac Grand Prix and the Plymouth Prowler. See how easy it is to live in an alternative reality?

In all seriousness that is the problem a lot of legacy car makers have. EVs seem better as EVs from the ground up. Converted gassers as production vehicles don't seem to work as well. Mini didn't sell a lot of EV Cooper's nor was the E Golf a particularly good car.

Right...because every EV fan wants to be complicit in the death of a significant other.

Yeah...me too!

Happy birthday. Your cake is in the frunk.... I always doubt all claims.

Amazing 53 years, looking forward to the next 53!

A huge number of people have given up already.

Maybe it's part of his devious plan to get rid of her. Tesla is under investigation by the government for suspension failures on high-mileage cars.