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On my outbound flight a few weeks ago, I had a few movies to look at on my video monitor. I didn't really listen to it with earphones, but I kept glancing at "Nomadland" while eating, napping, looking out the window ... It had Frances McDormand in it. She was in "Three Billboards ...," another dark movie. I've come to the conclusion that you might need to be on I.V. antidepressants to watch a movie with Frances McDormand.

100% agree. Charging infrastructure has also grown exponentially in that time frame.

Why is this a war on ICE? If and when these EV's start to get to the point where you can drive them across the country, we still need the charging infrastructure for the entire population. That's not just the stations but the entire grid system, cabling, substations, and generation. We need all forms of fuel and generation to get us there. It seems that the time line is moving fast but the technology is in infancy, there's more to see coming down the Pike before EV's can claim victory in your war. I applaud the advancement but this might take u 200 years before we get there. I truly think GM is rushing this through killing the Voltic drive system as that was a more logical approach to the end goal. All of the manufacturer's are pricing themselves out of business trying to scale up to 100% EV's by such and such year on the backs of the average ICE buyer. In all other technology advancement the early adapter footed the bill now even those who can't afford a new car are paying for others to get a new EV with their tax dollars and you guys are taking about another round of cash for clunkers when a 1500 dollar car is bringing in 7500?

Sure Cash for ICE and recycle them all with a decent incentive. KKB value on your auto and off to the shredder!

What worries me is just how bad things are going to get for new cars in general. The used car market is going to be nuts! I thought I might have to fight to keep my Equinox. Looks like it might even be a little cheaper as well. So I’m planning the purchase late next month/early November. Thinking about keeping the Trax as well. Cars are not going to be cheap for a very long time……

I was "listening" to this the other night. Here I am, walking down a street in Palermo and, one level above the restaurants and shops, are apartments with their French doors open onto their balconies. A dude wearing only some cargo shorts was rocking out to this song on the balcony. His lady friend or significant other was nowhere as into it as he was, and was making only a few moves. I wasn't going to take a photo or video. I tried doing that the night before with some lady lowering a plastic pail to the ground level while some Mama Celeste types were sitting on their chairs outside ... and these ladies told me to take a hike in Sicilian. So I wasn't going to push my luck with the dancing duo on the balcony. Young hearts run free! A sassy song from the disco era.

Ehhh it's a Rivian sponsored event. I'll be more impressed with positive reviews when Rivian isn't the one loaning a truck to a journalist/Youtuber.

^ Someone screwed a GM piece down on a Ford. Fisher was decades past doing 'outside' work (from GM) by the 1960s.

Well... NO! You see, there is too much bitchin' and whinin' and stallin' and meanderin' down the same ole path and NOT enough of what YOU just suggested (the bolded parts) to improve. How is that gonna happen when literally NOTHING is done to improve that... Why dont awesome American ingenuity and entrepreneurism and catch the bulls by the horns attitude that BUILT America to what it is today when the industrial revolution started 150 years ago do something about it? https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-pushes-norways-ev-sales-140113295.html Look it... Gasoline is awesome. Octane is a hell of a drug. The sounds of V8s is aural sex. Problem is, octane no longer rules our roads. Eco small micro displacement turboed, muffler muffled to non-existent sounds other than a few buzz buzzers buzzing here and there 4 bangers that rule our roads. Always with the across country road trips as an excuse... Shyte, in some cases, during special circumstances, FLYING is CHEAPER going from one side to the country the other than using ones own car. And AMERICANS DO LIKE TO FLY... Catch my drift. In other words.... Driving across the damned country is NOT the ONLY option anymore. Its not 19 phoquing 55... Its NOT Griswold's family truckster anymore... Christ all mighty... Shyte... Lucid Air is said to have a 500 plus mile range... COMMON MAN!!! Its 2021. It aint 2017. 5 years have passed when THESE arguments kinda made sense. In 5 years....things have changed DRASTICALLY in this area... The technology may still be in its infancy, but its evolving quite fast. And well....the ENERGY industry in the US is lagging their feet because the EV industry in the US is LEADING the way WORLDWIDE... Tesla Lucid gm Ford Rivian Lets all get real here. EVs are coming. They are already here. Laws are in place to stifle the internal combustion engine. The WORLD minus the United States of America sees it. The WORLD is adapting. The US is STILL bitchin' and whinin' and stallin' and meanderin' down the same ole path. Except for Tesla Lucid gm Ford Rivian Its up to American entrepreneurial and ingenuity know-how to MAKE the rest of your concerns happen. Even places poor like Greece are trying to find solutions https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a36619034/vw-turning-greek-island-into-an-ev-oasis/ The Asian world is FULL of all kinds of possible solutions... Google it. You will be amazed... This line of EV denial is getting quite old I must say. Sorry for the in your face post. But I am getting tired of this logic...

^ looks dumpy, whatever segment that's supposed to be in.

It’s lost the only thing that still gave the car character, it’s nasty V8 noises.

Two regulars are having b-days today on C&G, according to the homepage: William Maley and ccap41 Every once in a while, I spot these. I just returned to check the forum after crossing the pond, so I'm still a wet noodle. Happy birthday to both C&G members!

^ There's 275 million IC vehicles in the U.S. - you and I will never see them 'pushed out of the used market'.

This is good news. In order for a BEV to defeat ICE, the energy density problem Must Be Solved to the point where ICE becomes uneconomical (or at least makes ICE look expensive). Imagine your next vehicle having all the conveniences of ICE but it is battery powered. No more gas station visits. Much less routine maintenance (especially fluid changes!). And hopefully: lower prices than ICE. Most people cannot afford to BUY (not lease) a new car because the median price is almost $40K. I think we as consumers deserve a break; how about $28K instead? I do hope that these solid state batteries will lead to lower prices and push ICE out of the used car market for good.

Saw this just now on Facebook and it proves why I cannot stand dealerships and wish they all would take a damn hike. The guy who posted this is literally a salesman for Capital Ford in Raleigh (near me). For $100K, that better come with about ten kilos of the devils dandruff is all I’m going to say.

Yes that does make logical sense. There are many interesting reads in the Tech Sector on the Jalopnik.com site.

Sure, why not. Highly informative threads like this make C&G fun! I re-learned a bunch of stuff today re-reading this thread.

fascinating..a.thread resurrected after almost 12 years...

Incorrect- as stated above, "all-steel body" referred to the exterior skin. Prior to that claim, car manufacturers didn't have large enough presses to stamp 1-piece roofs, and closed cars were finished with fabric inserts. I've seen these in person in Model T Ford's: wood framing, stretched chicken wire, some padding material, then a top stretched layer of canvas material which was then waterproofed. These were not ideal- they did require maintenance over time and weren't leak-proof. Cadillac showed it's Aerodynamic Coupe in '33, and it went into limited production for '34-37. It had an all-steel roof, thusly was the first 'all steel' body. GM didn't start promoting the feature until it was brought out in the other divisions in 1935. http://www.autonews.com/article/19960626/ANA/606260845/steel-roof-was-hard-to-come-by-at-first

After reading a few books on GM, Fisher Body may have been a wholly owned subsidary of GM, but if you were to ask people that worked in the FB division, they worked for FB not GM. It was a highly territorial divison and one of my favorite quotes from the books that i read went something like this "GMAD and Fisher body were run like individual fifedoms where if plant space was shared, they would draw division lines between the two stating terrority." -- not a direct quote but something like that was said to roger smith by an anaylist. Here is some more cool facts about Fisher at the wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher_Body

Hmmm... which brings to mind another point. I wonder if Fleetwood, the maker of camper trailers and mobile homes, is a descendant of the company that made bodies for Cadillac? EDIT: with a little research, it seems they are two totally different entities, with the motorhome/camper/house company founded in California in 1950, and the Fleetwood coachworks started in Fleetwood, PA in 1909 and integrated into GM by 1931. I think "Fleetwood" is a very cool name, evoking speed and old-world luxury in one word.