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I see some dipped their whole head into the devils lettuces before they posted this, with the coup de grace being "a Tesla becomes cheaper than owning a Corolla.". BTW, I think I will compare Escalade sales to Sprinter van sales, while we are it. Or how about Ford F-150 sales against Mercedes Benz EQE (in the same vain as your asinine EQS to CT4 sales comparison)? That sounds about right, doesn't it? Just pure fanboy nonsense SMK. Sorry.

You can't ACTUALLY believe they'll be selling 50k trucks though, right? Just the mass/size alone and a stainless steel body will bring their costs well above a Model 3. A Model 3 with AWD starts at 53k. I just cannot fathom how this could be priced in the 50k price range. Maybe their complete base model(that likely will only be on sale for a few months, like the 35k Model 3) will be shown for 50k. But, everybody and their brother knows this thing will not be a 50k truck once you add AWD (because it's a truck and I'd wager 90% of orders will be AWD) and a battery to go 300 miles or more. "At the event in Los Angeles, Tesla CEO Elon Musk announced that the new Cybertruck will start at $39,900 before incentives, but there will be two more AWD variations that will start at $49,900 and $69,900 respectively." That's a quote from who knows how long ago but it was supposed to be on sale in 2021, then 2022. It's 2023. It's supposed to start production this year...but we'll have to see what ACTUALLY happens here.

"If...if...if" We have been hearing that about the Cybertruck for what...three years now? And your price point argument ignores a couple of things. First, the Cybertruck will not be even $50K, as it has already been pointed out. Second, while the D3 have pushed their tuck towards higher price points, $80K trucks are not even close to their volume and they start at around $15K LESS then this hypothetical $50K entry price of the Cybertruck. Two words for you regarding the D3 volume movers. "Work" and "truck". Third, the loan rate talk applies to Tesla as well so, how exactly does that help them get to that magical 200K number? This is not even close to a legitimate comparison (in regards to sales volume and price points) and you know that but you have been pushing this "if, if, if" nonsense for so long, regarding the Cybertruck, that it just like Elons claims over the last three years. Just empty words and white noise.

For some reason, I just don't give a sht about this car. EVs, 911 Turbos and such cars have made me care less about insane quarter mile times. Cars that can make insane passes AND do other things are cool but, this doesn't do anything for me. For a one-trick pony, I'm sure one could get this performance with a GT500 with slicks, a pulley, and a tune and it can also take corners and stop. Probably damn close with a ZL1, as well. Heck, probably a Hellcat Redeye, too. Yeah, yeah yeah, modded VS stock... but this is one very expensive one-trick pony.

I have and would love that Metallic Green on an Escalade. It is deep, rich and just beautiful. Great Green color, I am surprised that Cadillac does not offer it on the LYRIQ.

Robert you talking about this OEM color that they had on the 2020 CT5-V?

Id go for the original Hellcat hood. All black. Just 6 chromed Hellcat logos. 1 on each side of the front fenders and 4 on the wheels. The center caps. The mags from the original Chalenger Hellcat. Black mags. Wide body. And when I say all balck...I mean all black. Just the Hellcat logos are to be shiny and blingy chrome. That is it.

I got a really short drive in one in a Grand Wagoneer. It's smooth with gobs of low-end torque. You don't miss the very nice 6.4 eTorque at all.

Not betting against Tesla, just stating they are not as great a company as you and the Tesla Rabid Fan followers make it out to be. I believe the other OEMs are going to catch up and Tesla will be a hurting company. Already, sales have slowed down and their only way to keep momentum is to cut prices on a long in the tooth style from a political polarizing CEO. A man who has forgotten he works for the shareholders not himself. Right Now Kia and Hyundai are building better EVs according to the media than Tesla and buyers are listening. His political push of his world is also turning off people who do not want to be associated with Tesla CEO and as such are dumping their Tesla and going Mach-e, EV6, Ioniq 6 and now we have solid reviews on Genesis GV60 EV. Tesla's Days as king are numbered and you hit all the correct points about what Tesla is facing on top of the sexual harassment lawsuits against Musk and the Company. The HR department and Legal have their hands full. The next 24 months could really make a difference for Tesla.

You do know that Tesla is pushing their luck, right? NHTSA is investigating Tesla for their autopilot baffoonery and fraud and if they DO find Tesla's autopilot AS fraud, then Tesla will more than likely be charged and found guilty of criminal negligence. And THAT is something no OTHER producer of cars has EVER faced. And THAT is saying a lot from all the shyte this industry has shat upon people 100 plus years ago... Some investors are suing Musk for involving Tesla with his Twitter purchase. THAT whole mess doesnt look good for Musk and consequently Tesla. And...between that Twitter thing and Musk's over-promising and under-delivering on many Tesla things, investors have startedto lose faith in Tesla slowly slowly. The longer Musk sits as CHIEF executive officer at Tesla, the more investors lose confidence in Tesla day by day ESPECIALLY when he opens up his shytty mouth.... Profits and billions of are one thing...but in the CAR making business many many MANY billiions are needed CONTINUOUSLY and if Tesla doesnt have the trust from investors or banks sometime in the near future...and its a very very real possibility...then they cant finance NEW models. And as you know...new models and the next star car is what keeps a car company alive... GM, Toyota and VAG have NO problems with that. And... All of those 3 companies at one time had lost trust from bankers and investors...and GM had to restructure through a bankruptcy...unfortunately for Tesla, Tesla is not as big as GM and therefore restructuring wont be a thing for them... Meaning...bye bye Tesla. And Tesla wont BE the first car company to go under to never return.

You are talking about the Challenger, right? There are so many cars mentioned above your post, Ive lost focus. I view the Challenger (Hellcat for me as its my favorite trim), not as a quarter mile queen, but as a top dog muscle car, and muscle cars is what I like mostly, and I also equate muscle cars as comfortable cruisers big enough to haul family stuff that make nice V8 sounds and go like stink when pressing on the 'go' pedal. A Mustang or Camaro or a Trans Am, which would be muscle cars too, but smaller ones in the pony car class, are too small for my tastes. A Challenger was and is a tad smaller than the mid size muscle car segment, but a tad bigger than the pony car segment. And since TRUE midsized and full sized muscle cars dont exist anymore, then the Challenger is the one that I drool over all else in the muscle car segment today. I love a Mustang and Camaro too. However, there exists 2 cars that are not really in THE muscle car class, mainly because of price, luxury. These 2 cars are mainly marketed in the LUXURY class and these 2 cars is what I really really like in 2023 besides a Challenger Hellcat. Yes...its a BMW. I would have preferred if the Cadillac was toned down in luxury a tad and marketed and sold as an Oldsmobile. Although I love a Cadillac, Im not a Cadillac type of guy. A Cadillac type of guy is like a 1%er. Im not that. Im a well educated, hard working blue collar type of guy that has done well financially for myself. And Oldsmobile fits THAT bill for me. And alas, Im not a prick either, so a BMW is a no go as well...

Not the same color, but they did add a Green Mist color to the 2023 Escalade ESV-V edition. LOL, @Robert Hall @oldshurst442 WOW, talk about it and GM has now updated their Cadillac web site for 2024 models and we have green colors, not the same as the CT-5 V edition, but here is the Emerald Lake Metallic on the Lyriq with their Slate Interior.

Is that why the three years delayed Cybertruck has been such a sales hit? And let's not forget that legendary Tesla reliability and build quality because, you know, efficiency. Yeah, so much winning lol.

If they were so efficient, they would not have so much manual labor installing stuff or have tents in their fremont parking lot to build the Tesla 3. Yes they have a couple Mega presses, but that is on the Tesla Y and they still have not improved assembly of the S, X, 3 or Y. There is a reason their fit n finish suck. No Tesla will not be able to do a 50K RWD truck without loss or an AWD truck @ $60K without a loss. Musk knows this and already they have downsized the truck and have stated they will start with top end AWD trucks, $100,000 plus first. They are still a solid year away from full production if they are on track to start production at the end of this year. If they still have these 1.5 million reservations, it will take years to produce and get caught up. MUSK LIES, LIES LIES, he will not produce cheap trucks, he has too many other projects that he needs money for and as proven with the canceled $35K Tesla 3 that almost never happened except for a few he had to build due to lawsuits, I doubt we will see what you are talking about.

They could do rwd base at $50k, awd at $60k is what I am thinking. Tesla has a more efficient manufacturing process with newer plants than the legacy OEM’s. That is where Tesla is winning. They also vertically integrate, rather than buying everything from suppliers who have a mark up, then sell to a dealer that has a mark up.

It has to be around $50k to start to get the 200,000 volume I think. That’s the magic number because we see how GM, Ford and Ram pushed truck prices to 60, 70, 80 thousand and now these trucks are stuck on dealer lots. A $60k loan at 6.5% is about $1100 a month for 6 years. Then add gas, maintenance, insurance, it is like $1500 a month to drive a new pick up. Not going to be a huge buyer pool if they keep pushing prices and interest rates stay high. If Tesla is priced like an ICE truck with $7500 tax credit, no gas, limited maintenance, better resale value then there is a big cost savings for the Tesla.

My wife and I watched this trailer the other day. We both look forward to seeing it. It looks corny but, still funny.

Exactly, and we all understand why. Most companies do the same thing. I don't foresee a 40k Cybertruck ever though. That was announced like 5 years ago and inflation has been insane. I could guess a 50k work truck version may possibly be a thing...but I'm not too confident in that either. This will be a 100k vehicle and they're not selling 200-250,000 $100k of these a year. Nobody has sales like that. Nothing could possibly have demand like that.

It's in the Grand Wagoneer already, maybe the Wagoneer, as well. https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2023-jeep-wagoneer-l-hurricane-i-6-first-test-review/

Totally agree and as I posted in my response to him above, Musk at the investors day meeting said they would be focusing on the top end Cybertruck first, a truck that is 6 figures. So they will not if ever have a common persons truck like Ford, GM or Ram.

I cannot imagine them selling 200-250k vehicles for more than one year, when it's hot and new. Once the novelty wears off, it just doesn't come off as a truck that can sell a quarter million units a year, consistently. Knowing their Model X pricing, starting at $99,990., I can't imagine a truck will be much less. I know Elon claimed 40k or whatnot, but this won't be had for under 100k for awhile. There are so many details we don't have on this hypothetical truck yet that it's tough to say anything about it. Ford will have a 2nd gen Lightning by the time this is out and both Ram and GM will have theirs in customers' hands already. So yeah, it may take some sales back but by being so damn late, they'll already have lost hundreds of thousands of sales to the D3.

I get that. There is a place for everything. I saw a pic of a dark green CT5-v recently. Love the muscle car in a tuxedo sport sedan style.

Subtle is a nice way to go. Especially the way the 300C SRT8 was in 2013. I agree!!! With me though, Id like to flash a little bit of the wild side.

@oldshurst442 @Robert Hall @ccap41 @surreal1272 @Drew Dowdell @trinacriabob @riviera74 Check out what the Hellcat can do on the German Autobahn.

I do wonder if the Charger and Challenger will continue. It hasn’t been clear to me if 2023 is just the end of the Hellcat models or the end of the current Charger and Challenger generation completely. They are being quiet about that unless I’ve misunderstood. I hope they do use it in cars. I assume Ram will get it for trucks and Jeep will use it elsewhere.

I just don't like small cars in general. Too noisy on the road, cramped and uncomfortable. For my next new car, it will probably be another Grand Cherokee...maybe an Overland or Summit w/ the McIntosh stereo. I'm channeling my inner 65 year old, but I would love a brand new 1996 Cadillac Brougham, Buick Roadmaster or Lincoln Town Car w/ today's infotainment systems, soft-touch interior trim and today's V8 power and efficiency. But with the classic cushy seats and ride and quiet...I want serenity in my drive, but still want blast some U2, NIN, Eagles, Joe Bonamassa, Pink Floyd, Pearl Jam, or Beethoven when I feel like it..

I wanted to give a vote on this post. But I dont know which one to give. 1. I cant give an upvote because although I agree with the post. I dont also. I mean, I UNDERSTAND what you mean, I agree with you, but I dont as I, my wife really, doesnt mind a small FWD car... And THAT is where I dont agree. Not with the statement, I undersatand your statement, but I dont mind a small FWD car... 2. I cant give you a heart because...well...see above. 3. its not a negative vote... 4. Its not a Hell Yeah vote. Because obviously this kinda car could actually BE in my driveway. But not for ME. For my wife. Because for ME, I ALSO dont care a whole lot for a small car. I dont mind the FWD part though... 5. Its not a sad or confused vote... 6. Its not a great idea. Its not educational. Although it might be educational as we just educated ourselves as to how you feel about small FWD cars... 7. Its not a facepalm So its best not to vote? So this post gets an upvote instead... Depending how small it is, if its too small, then maybe my wife wont want it. For now, if we need to get a brand new EV...for her...its a Chevy Equinox EV. For me. NOTHING is out there that I would like to own. ICE or EV. Sure...a Challenger or Mustang is always nice. Those arent too usefull for my needs though. Maybe the Dodge Banshee/Charger EV that is still a concept might be the answer. Or Ill bight the bullet and get myself a CUV. The Mustang Mach-E.

I wonder what the deal w/ all the Hellcat thefts is...do they have a particular vulnerability w/ the ignition or locks? Or are thieves getting smarter and more clever...

I still wouldn't mind having a Challenger..though I don't need a Hellcat..the regular R/T or R/T Scat Pack 392 w/ a manual and maybe the wide body would be fine, as long as it's in F8 green or octane red. Maybe I'll get a CPO or otherwise clean late model one when I get my property plans sorted (got to have more garage space). Though I do like the 2015+ Mustang quite a bit also.

@oldshurst442 @Robert Hall As I watched the Demon 170 reveal, when they gave the Name, the online crowd was so disappointed. So many pointed to the evil little leprechaun they used to tease this car. Many thought it would be named using some of the evil Leprechaun names like "Killian" or "Mordecai". Many thought they would use actual Demon names such as "Succubus" or "Incubi". End result, I am sure there were Legal concerns about the naming of the auto and they already owned the Demon name, but I still feel this is one of the biggest let downs by a auto company after all the buildup.

I thought the same about the Demon 170 name. So tame. The Hellcat image is outrageous, the name should be outrageous. Something like Demon Tire Mutilator, Demon Defecator ( since it sh*ts all over the competition), Demon Dominator… I read that the silver and black 170 they have been showing to the press has been stolen already.

The Cybertruck is one body style only, not remotely competitive with the F150. You actually think there will be a next generation that competes w/ the F150? I doubt it...they haven't even made a 2nd generation of the Model S. Tiny company, poor quality, unable to compete w/ real car companies...claiming they will have a product that will outsell the F150 is just fanboy dreamer BS.

I assume the Charger EV will be a low volume novelty though. Can't imagine the police fleet volume of Chargers going to the EV version. Definitely going to be interesting to see what comes out in the next year or so. I can't imagine the Cybertruck will ever be in high production, let alone 'wrecking' the sales of full size trucks...it's just a novelty..no way that garbage will outsell the F150.

Betting against Tesla = bad idea.

So Cybertruck could take 10-15% of that market, I think that is pretty reasonable. That still puts the F150 to about 600k units a year, the Model Y could pass that. Mercedes EV sales aren't poor, the EQS is the only one that was on sale all last year, it is the #2 selling vehicle over $100,000 ICE or EV and it is only #2 because Mercedes makes the #1 seller. The EQS outsold the Taycan, the 911, even outsold the Cadillac CT4 that is 1/3rd the price. Mercedes too though needs to ramp up more production and they need the smaller size EVs because the volume lives there, not with a $125,000 sedan. And my point is not about low EV sales, it is more about profitability of EV sales, which these low volume producers don't make any money. And my other point is Tesla hasn't hit the mainstream price yet, once you can get a Tesla for the same price as an ICE Chevy/Ford/Toyota/Hyundai/etc and then get a tax credit, no gas, limited maintenance, less depreciation, a Tesla becomes cheaper than owning a Corolla. That is game over for the legacy OEM's.