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I can see that. Flood cars from NC, amazing damage... I intend to avoid anything to do with Musk. Morally a horrible human being.

No. Third space has a specific definition and something like a Costco doesn't meet that as its primary purpose is retail. Besides, Pacific Northwest was once the land of coffee shops, very much inside the definition of third space. Third Spaces in the U.S. have been disappearing, dramatically so since Covid. Sociological experts are studying this as part of the greater issue of isolation that has been happening here.

I won't go on weekends if I can help it. I go early or mid-week and never have to wait. A 20-30 cent a gallon difference in price adds up when filling 27 gallons. The only other station I use is the Speedway also nearby because they've been having HUGE discounts on E85 lately and even with the hit to my MPGs, I make out better. I've paid as little as $2.59 a gallon for E85 while Costco is $3.25 for regular. I only take a 1 mpg hit on the highway and 3-4 mpg city.

The easiest way to remember what a third space is: A Third Space is a place to be, not a place to go. When I was in college there was a chain of coffee shops and restaurants based on the characters from A Christmas Carol. Ebenezer's was a fantastic coffee shop with lots of room. It had big couches, a nice gas fire in the winter, good basic foods, quiet booths to work. Fezziwig's was a restaurant done up like an old English pub with aged wood beams and English pub fare (it still exists in principle today but now it's a glorified TGI Fridays), and Cratchet's was a small sandwich shop. Ebenezer's was my favorite. It's gone from how I remember it but I've often thought if I won the Powerball, I would create a coffee chain (ironically, since I don't drink it) that was very much a 3rd space place like Ebenezer's... I'd even steal the name and call it Ebenezers Counting House instead, and fit it out with fireplaces, cozy corners, and gigabit wifi.

AFTER tax incentives. Don't Elon Musk this and advertise the price with savings built into that. They actually start around $60,000.

I totally get the point your making, but then I think it also could depend on where one lives. With Costco having so many free samples, it has become common for folks to meet at Costco, taste all the free food even if they do not buy anything else. Plus most Costco's at least here are part of a much larger retail area that usually also has a Starbucks, Jamba Juice, etc. so I see multiple options for charge and go hang out. I do get the coffee shop, bar, YMCA thing too. SUV starts at $50,000 and Truck @ $51,500 for the early reservation holders who sign up now. I think Third Space is clearly also a regional thing in how one defines it as I have come to realize that how the east coast versus the west coast sees things like this is very different.

That's not really the definition of a 3rd space. Most people don't go to Costco to hang out and meet friends. The definition of a 3rd space is a place for people to go and gather for social interaction that is not their home nor work. In the UK, this might be the local pub. In the US, it might be a coffee shop, bar, or even the YMCA. Retail shopping like Costco and a grocery store doesn't really count as a third space because it's not a social thing.

I don't think it ever was a thing. People don't go to SuperChargers to hang out. EV charging stations should be something you take your car to while you're doing something else. Plug in while you're shopping for groceries, or having dinner with friends, or hiking in a park. Building a glorified convenience store to be the destination for EV users is never going to take off in large numbers as a business model. Convenience stores just aren't that compelling. Ironically, Starbucks had the ideal business model for EV charging, yet they've actively been moving away from a model which would make sense. SBX use to be comfortable places to sit and be a 3rd space. These days, they play music loud, have uncomfortable seating, and usually poor parking. Their goal is throughput. They don't want you to hang around. They want you to buy their overpriced coffee and food and be on your way. They don't want you hanging around to work and eat while your car charges.

It seems that Tesla has decided that a Cheap Tesla or an affordable one for the masses is not needed as everyone will pay Tesla to ride in their RoboTaxi's, Law suit filed over the name. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/elon-musk-makes-major-tesla-u-turn-on-affordable-electric-vehicles-pointless/ar-AA1t0O3g?ocid=BingHp01&cvid=2315a0a6151343a8e858ca0c3d25fa96&ei=84

It's a novelty...I suppose some would like it, I'd prefer have buckets and a center console with storage space.

I do love fall in Ohio. Nice cool sunny day, going for a scenic drive in a bit.

Two years in the making, President and CEO, Scout Motors, Scott Keogh made the following statement: “Two years in the making, the day has finally come to share the next generation of Scout vehicles with the world. The original core idea — rugged, versatile vehicles capable of off-road adventure and family duty — is more relevant than ever. We couldn’t be prouder to revitalize this iconic American brand, create thousands of American jobs, and put American ingenuity back to work.” In revealing the all-new electric Scout Traveler SUV and Scout Terra truck concepts, Scout ushers in a new era of EVs with the following bold statement: A bold, iconic design with multifunctional spaces built for gathering and connection; the Connection Machine™ Body-on-frame chassis, solid rear axle, and front and rear mechanical lockers deliver robust capability and off-road performance Projected towing of over 7,000 pounds for the Scout Traveler and over 10,000 pounds for the Scout Terra, both with nearly 2,000 pounds of payload Anticipated 0-60 miles per hour (mph) in as quick as 3.5 seconds is made possible by an estimated nearly 1,000 lb.-ft. of torque through the four-wheel-drive system Scout vehicle software will be built upon a modern zonal architecture, enabling over-the-air updates, remote diagnostic, and enhanced customer lifetime value Fully electric models are anticipated to offer up to 350 miles of range, extended range variants are projected to offer more than 500 miles of range through a built-in, gas-powered generator An exclusive Scout Motors sales and service network will provide direct sales from Scout Motors to customers and embraces the same modern, seamless, customer-first philosophy that defines Scout vehicles Traveler entry model starting as low as $50,000 with available incentives, with retail prices starting under $60,000.3 Terra entry model starting as low as $51,500 with available incentives, with retail prices starting under $60,000.3 Initial production targeted for 2027.  Consumers can make a reservation to order their Scout Traveler or Scout Terra beginning at 6:30 p.m. EDT on October 24, 2024, at www.scoutmotors.com hp1017.webm     Engineered for work and play, the Scout Traveler and Terra offer up to 35-inch tires, over 1 foot of ground clearance, nearly 3 feet of water fording capability, front sway bar disconnect, front and rear mechanical lockers, competitive approach and departure angles and robust competition suspension options. Modern Auto tools for today can be ordered in two formats, 100 percent battery electric offering up to 350 miles of pure EV range or in range extended configuration allowing more than 500 miles of range with a built-in gas generator. Both systems will preserve the Scout off-road characteristics and packaging benefits of a pure electric powertrain. Both power train options will ensure Scout Motors can respond to an evolving market demand. All Scout Motor vehicles will come standard with the NACS (North America Charging Standard) port, 800-volt architecture, 350 kilowatt charging that is also bi-directional. Scout will leverage over-the-air (OTA) software architecture updates, snappy touchscreen interface, high-resolution camera views and personalization for an ultimate user experience. Scout vehicles will have gold club fitting front trunks (Frunks), multiple 120V outlets, USB-C power ports and for the Terra truck a 5 1/2ft bed that will have two 120V and a single 240V outlets in the bed for heavy duty tool usage on the job site or home appliance usage for power outages at home or whatever you desires might be for plugged in options. Scout Motors has listened and been guided by the customer. The EREV (extended range electric vehicle) system is called Harvester.  The gas-powered generator delivers on a refuel anywhere you can find a pump or plug, while maintaining the packaging and performance benefits of an electric vehicle. The Harvester energy system delivers the benefits the customers have asked for in their lifestyle that works for them. Scout Motors   View full article

No dealership network. They will be direct to customer sales, like Tesla and Rivian.

Looking over their reservation process, that is not the case.

With the usual dealer 'market adjustments' they will probably start at $75k or more.

When was the last time you priced something at $5.90 and that wasn't' considered "around $6.00"? Let's be honest, it's a couple years out and plenty of things could change. Stating it will be "around" $60,000 is much safer and likely more accurate than saying "under", when we all know how auto manufacturers do things. What was the last EV that actually same out spot on for their press released price when they show/announce it 2+ years out? Has there been any? Where'd you see this?

Rivian has stated that even with water intrusion into the cab, the electronics should not be affected since the whole purpose of the Rivian design was to be waterproof for the R1 series. That is not going to be the same for the R2 and R3, but the R1 is supposed to be waterproof. I think maybe the insurance person does not really understand the Rivian R1 autos.

With a minimum two year window before it even comes out, it will be above both of those figures. Count on it.

Agree, Want nothing to do with Musk or Tesla as long as he is the CEO and Chairmen. Have to say after looking at the video, I am puzzled as to why the Rivian is there as they are built to survive that flooding of the system, so cleaning it up, that should be good to go.

Absolutely fantastic model building...

Was not trying to Musk it, Just went by the press release and with the rebate at $7,500, that makes the SUV $57,500 to start and the Truck at $59,000 to start. Still under $60,000, not around.

Agree... Removing a flooded car from a river. Ending on a positive note, a cool model train video.

This.

@smk4565, weren't you dead-set on Elon keeping his word on a $25k vehicle?

Random aside, I'm not into Costco, never saw the appeal.(buying in bulk would make sense for families, though)....there is one a couple miles from me, and they always seem to have long lines at their gas pumps on Sat/Sun mornings..couldn't imagine waiting in line to get gas, I'm in and out of my local Shell in a few minutes..

Sure, but that infrastructure doesn't get built overnight and people are buying EVs today. With the updates to the 2025 Mustang Mach-E including the addition of a heat pump, the Mach-E looks like it's back in the running for being a 300C replacement for us also. Albert doesn't like how big the Scout would be. It's Dodge Durango in length.

Right on!!! And dont forget it also has the silhouettes and profiles of a Tesla Model S. Despite Elon, Id rather be driving the Model S than the Chinese knock-off.

@oldshurst442 @Robert Hall @Drew Dowdell @trinacriabob @A Horse With No Name @ccap41 @surreal1272 So I have seen a ton of writeups this week and it seems this old school feature is having a revival as so many folks have posted about it online that they are excited by this. Front Bench Seat as an option in both Truck and SUV. The Scout EVs Have One Incredible Throwback Feature Thoughts on this guys? Yea / Neah ??????? Find this comparison an interesting read, seems they are more alike in various ways and yet very different in others such as the solid axles compared to the modern independent axles of Rivian. Thoughts on this? Scout Traveler Vs. Rivian R1S: How Do They Compare?

Nice, evocative photos. It stops at the clams! LOL. I am very ok with fish that is of the filet-able form. I have had intermittent bad gastric experiences with shellfish, so I tread carefully. I have no idea why it's random.

Took a drive in the beautiful rolling hills of Geauga County then up to the North Coast of Lake County, to Grand River for a late lunch of clams at Pickle Bills then a walk on the beach at Fairport Harbor. Love the clouds.

I think it's fine for people who may not have access to a home charger. I wouldn't opt for it myself. Being able to use the Tesla network and the other networks coming online would negate my need for it.

Yes. The pick-up does have Rivian vibes. But better looking vibes. In my eyes, the Rivian signature front fascia is just weird lookin'. I dont like all that lightbar across the whole front end with those weirdly stacked headlight look which aint even stacked headlights. I didnt like that front end then when first introduced and I havent much endeared to it now. The Scout SUV is a cool shape. I like how it keeps the C-Pillar from its classic predecessor. I also get Ford Bronco vibes from it. All the Scout SUVs of the 1960s and 1970s had similar vibes to the Bronco of that period so its only fitting that the ressurected versions of both keep the vibes the same 50 years later.

Ready to cancel the EValanche and R2 reservations for one each of these. These are suppose to have CarPlay. Just need to find out what the tow hitch rating will be. Edit: It looks like I'd be fine. I need a 600 lbs. tongue weight rating to put the motorcycle carrier on the back. So I'd just need one equipped for 6,000 lbs or more of towing.

Thank-you. I got pretty angry that someone could possibly admire a thing as a Hitler. We could praise some things that thing managed to do but as a former political leader (Trump)trying to get back into power its just appalling of Trump trying to emulate some sort of emption for that thing. What is worse, the so called 'news' platform of which he announces such admiration for a monster like Hitler enables him to do so. Which makes me even angrier. And Im amazed and confused and even angrier still that DJT still has followers. I would love to administer Mr. Trump's dosage of cyanide if he admires Hitler so much and wants to emulate him. Ill just cut to the chase and avoid all the unnecessary fascism and destruction and go straight to the conclusion... We ALL know bhow it ends with Hitler. Why go through all of that? Cyanide to Trump right now and cut the middleman, right?

I never did like Rush. A couple of songs here and there. This is one of those songs that I kinda like. LOVE the guitars and the drums. ESPECIALLY the drums in this song. She has a thousand times better voice than Geddy Lee. I prefer her rendition of this song. BUT...Neil Pert is UNTOUCHABLE and especially in this song so the cover lacks greatly as compared to the original. a But...Ill let you into my mind by showing you my thought process when I post songs and cars together in this thread. I either choose a song or car or era. Then I try to marry them together with the other elements. We (you) chose the cover of a Rush song. Tom Sawyer. 1. OK...Rush is a Canadian band. 2. Tom Sawyer...and American mythical character. Mark Twain is the author of which the subject is named Tom Sawyer. 3. Both lyrics of song AND Mark Twain himself are about being a rebel of free spirited mind. I try to think of a car that closely matches these descriptions... And I got one. 1. I chose the Ford GT because its an American icon with a free spirit and rebel attitude. 427 cubic inches of raw American V8 power winning against puny motored European and Italian sports cars. 2. This version that I chose is built in Canada. With an even more rebelious and free spirited mind in that its a turbo V6. Always keep them guessing what your next move will be. Rush is Canadian. 3. The pics: the first one is snow covered in the backround, possibly in Canada. But snow and Canada are synonymous one could say. The second pic is photograghed in Montreal. And theres you have it. What the thought processes are.

Interesting comparison.

They have manuals in the cars they test with as a baseline. If not, they probably have some code to restrict the license (to automatics). I'm going to say go with the flow in case you need to rent a manual or drive someone's manual car for some reason.

Assuming at the start you meant not EV, since at the end you state gasoline engine which is ICE. There is a reason Italy has failed the auto industry for long term growth and survival as they are stuck in the past and not willing to move with the times. 500,000 auto's build, down 250,000 from last year and continuing to consolidate as they built crap autos and drivers training requiring a nearly dead technology, manual is a joke. Pathetic in the living in the past way of life.

If overseas, economical car with automatic and not ICE. I will have too much on my plate ... the (stress of the) to do list is insane, including doing driving school. Italy will not swap U.S. driver licenses. (The school is always done with a manual, so I'll have to get back on that bicycle.) Portugal will exchange them. I talked to one lady in Italy who was really nice but also a douchebag in how she made it sound like I was preparing for a flight to the moon. I went to driver's ed in 10th grade, cracked jokes with my friends, did the work, got an A, got 2 wrong on the written test, and got a 100 on the drive test. My parents moved us to Italy before I ever started school and we came back before the 3rd grade. I did not speak English and K through 2 was in Italian. In the 5th grade, my teacher, a nun, said she wanted to talk to me. I was wondering what I had done wrong. She just wanted to pull me aside to tell me my standardized test scores, which surprised the hell out of me! Point is that Italians have one glaring fault - they are quite obtuse in getting it that smart people can figure things out. I think they have this narrow view because they did not colonize. Somalia doesn't count. OTOH, the Spaniards, French, and Portuguese did, so they are less likely to insult people for minor speech "irregularities" since people in other lands far away have slightly differently accented versions of their languages and some of their customs. End of rant. Small car. Automatic. Reputable brand. Gasoline engine.

EV, Hybrid or ICE? Car, SUV, Truck or Van? Very interested in what you will get.

Today marks the 1 year anniversary that I don't have a car registered to me. Letting go of the LaCrosse was initially difficult, but I've gotten used to it. I rent when I need to. (That's what people like Manhattanites do!) From 16 on, I had regular access to a car, even if our family ones weren't registered to me. I have to figure out what to buy and when. If across the pond, it will NOT be a new car. A weird state of limbo to be in, to be sure, but I don't really have a choice and I'll get it sorted out.

Good Read and why EV Chargers are a good thing for businesses. Public EV chargers are good for the planet. They're also good for business. | Grist

Those of us that pay attention to history know that a certain fascist in the 1930's used the same type of attack to get the disillusioned to put him in power and we ended up with WWII. Now we have another individual who beams with adulation over Russia, China and especially North Korea leaders and is wanting to be in the same position. Democracy has never been more in danger than now. Our freedoms are at stake and every person needs to get out and vote. Those that can move to another place have options, those with families, kids, grandkids, have less options, but one would hope the sanity of the nation would choose the lesser of the evils and not be swayed by negativity. This country was founded by multi-cultural people and not a single specific group. Our Multi-cultural heritage is what gives us such amazing delights in food, Music, product design in having options. Hold the criminals accountable and let freedom flourish. I will leave it at that for this soap box.

Yeah, true. But it was put into motion for different reasons and it was a bug that my foreign born doctor out West put in my ear about 10 years ago. I filed it away. It then involved contacting the consulate to get the citizenship recognized and then be issued that passport. It's not bad if you're first-gen, but it's still a lot of work. You have these third-gen on one side who have to have it, and they have to come through with a big paper trail. Still, I never thought it would come to this. The EU in general is also very concerned with the outcome.