oldshurst442

I got this far into your post...when I thought about ONLY one thing. LETS GO CRAZY!!! LETS GET NUTS!!!

Same here. C5 Vettes also. I posted some C4 Vettes in another thread 2-3 weeks ago, and ever since then, I fell in love with them again. The early ones. 1984-1989. With the square flat front and concave back. And Ive been loving the C5 for about a week now when I saw one driving around. Saw the same one again just now. Literally. I just came home. I saw it 2 minutes before entering my home. I kissed the wife. She told me to disinfect my hands before kissing her, said hi to my kids and turned on the computer to log in this site, read what you wrote and responded to it with this lame post.

Saw this earlier Laughed a bit. But Im just not feeling it. Im feeling kinda rebellious tonight. So I listened to the non-parody version. And now I guess I mellowed out because of the Ramones...but Ill do the Offspring cover. Idle hands was an AWESOME MOVIE!!! Just to let you you know...I dont DO drugs. Not then. Not now...never will. And now...Im happy again!!!

Them's fightin' words... Period correct fightin' song. (Accounting for both Pontiacs pictured above that is) Id challenge you to a drag race for pink slips if it werent for this Covid19 thing. That and I dont own an F-Body nor an A-Body...just yet. So you lucky!

Government subsidies. A necessary evil on many levels. In a perfect world, government subsidies should not be. But as we all no, there is no such thing as a perfect anything. For starters, in a global economy to which many American companies compete in, is most of these global countries, many governments subsidize their national industries and subsidies their national manufacturing. For starters, Japan subsidizes their automotive industry to levels that seem insane to American minds. The Chinese even worse. GM, Ford, NEED American taxpayer money JUST for those two reasons alone... Secondly, even if you dont think American taxpayer money should go to GM/Ford, American taxpayer money goes to foreign automobile manufacturers let alone GM and Ford. All those Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, Mazda, Mercedes, BMW, Volkswagen (Porsche and everything thing else VW...), Hyundai/KIA manufacturing plants...IN THE USofA...ALL GOT some sort of American governmental level of tax breaks, grants, loans on guaranteed low low low interest rates and the like... You think that is fair for GM and Ford NOT to get taxpayer money when American taxpayer money goes to everybody else? OK...we eliminate ALL taxpayer money of all sorts to ALL companies... THAT only solves what happens on your land...THAT does NOT solve what GM and Ford face in the global market when all other nations subsidize their industries... Example with the aircraft industry because it happens in the automotive industry too: Boeing gets taxpayer money in very loopholey ways. Fine! Boeing complains that Bombardier Aerospace is subsidized by the Canadian government! Fine! Boeing's subsidies stop. OK... Canada WILL NOT stop subsidizing Bombardier Aerospace. (OK...maybe they will now even before this COVID19 thing happened.) Problem is...Brazil will NOT stop subsidizing Embraer. Bigger problem than Embraer and Bombardier Aerospace is that Airbus will continue to get government support by not 1 country. Not 2 countries. But 3 countries...(Germany, Spain and France) How can Boeing compete with that? Boeing NEEDS the American government and the loopholey ways of subsidies...that is how. (I dont like the lies that Boeing done to try to undermine the CS100/Airbus220, but that is for another time) There are things that need to be more in check. I agree. Example: Bombardier, JUST before the CS100 (now Airbus 220) was being certified by the FAA and the TCCA(Canadian equivalent), Bombardier needed billions of dollars of loans from the Canadian Government for reasons. There was an uproar by Canadians. From Quebec and the rest of the country. Canada gave some interest free loans and the Quebec government said they will give money, but they need to partner up wioth the Quebec government. Bombardier agreed to those terms. ONE YEAR LATER...Bombardier LAYS OFF people saying they are bleeding money. What about those billions of dollars they got a year earlier? WELL...the family that owns Bombardier (like Ford) have a controlling interest in the company...and they got a very very healthy end of year raise in CEO salary and bonuses... Let me tell you, they had to answer to the Quebec folk as there was an uproar. The link below...the green sign reads... "steal from the poor to give to the rich" The red sign reads "Bombardier and others, old or new aristocrats, same insensibilities, same arrogance, same justifiactions" https://business.financialpost.com/transportation/bombardier-inc-executives-defer-half-of-their-32-6-million-compensation-after-uproar-over-pay-hike https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/bombardier-defends-pay-structure-after-public-outcry-over-executive-pay-increases-1.4051413 So yeah...while government subsidies should not be, they also should be.

When one has a certain narrative stuck in one's mind, one will invent all kinds of theories to justify one's opinion. Reality says otherwise.

I googled Cavalier, Cobalt and Cruze US sales The Cavalier in 1985 had 400 000 units sold. In 1986 had 350 000 units. 1987-1990 had 300 000 units per yer sold. The Cavalier also had 300 000 units sold constantly in the 1990s but also had many 200 000- 250 000 units sold too. The Cobalt had two or three years of 200 000 units sold The trend of 200 000-250 000 units sold per year sold for the Cruze continued. Id say, 200 000-300 000 units for econobox small FWD Chevys are the norm. Is that a big enough number to say Chevrolet conceded to Honda, Toyota, Kia and Hyundai? Well...I googled Civic, Corolla, Elantra and Forte US sales figures... If I made a mistake somewhere, the Civic and Corolla figures always stayed relatively constant in their sales in the US. And that would be surprisingly as much as the Cavalier/Cobalt/Cruze sales figures. Like I said, unless I made a mistake... And there was never any huge bumps in sales for anyone of these cars. Not for the Civic, not for the Corolla. The Civic and Corolla always sold in and around 300 000 units. They dipped in the 250 000 units and had some 400 000 units sold, but their sweet spot were always in the 300 000s. The Cavalier did see a few 400 000 units sold, to 350 000 units to many more 200 000-250 000 units. Id say, Chevys sweet spot would be between 200 000-250 000 untis. The Elantra went from below 100 000 units to selling constantly in the 200 000-250 000 untis sold so I think the Elantra has become the Cavalier/Cobalt/Cruze. But to say that Chevrolet conceded market share to Honda, Toyota and Hyunda/Kia I think is false. Maybe a tad to the Elantra as the Forte still sells like shyte. I think its more accurate to say that BECAUSE the market has shifted to CUVs that GM is just cutting ties to the small FWD econobox car and just wants to concentrate on producing and selling small FWD oriented AWD econobox equivalent CUVs... The CR-V in the late 1990s has gone from 100 000 units to close to 400 000 units in 2019. 200 000 units in 2010. 300 000 units in 2013... Same pattern for the RAV4. Except the RAV4 has eclipsed the 400 000 units thrice the last 3 years. The Equinox is a slightly larger vehicle than any Cavalier/Cobalt/Cruze and CUV that Im mentioning, but the Equinox barely hit 100 000 units prior to 2008 and since 2008 has gained a lot of sales going to 200 000 in 2011, 300 000 in 2017 and in 2019 350 000. When one has a certain narrative stuck in his mind, one will invent all kinds of theories to justify one's opinion. Reality says otherwise. In response to the usual ad nauseum anti-EV rhetoric... Although the Bolt sells like shyte as compared to what a FWD econobox Chevy done, Chevy doing away with these cars has NOTHING to do with the BOLT and EVERYTHING to do with CUVs...and NOTHING still to conceding sales to the Japanese (maybe Koreans though) but maintaining and possibly growing market share... https://carsalesbase.com/us-chevrolet-cavalier/ https://carsalesbase.com/us-chevrolet-cobalt/ https://carsalesbase.com/us-chevrolet-cruze/ https://carsalesbase.com/us-honda-civic/ https://carsalesbase.com/us-toyota-corolla-sedan/ https://carsalesbase.com/us-hyundai-elantra/ https://carsalesbase.com/us-toyota-rav4/ https://carsalesbase.com/us-honda-cr-v/ https://carsalesbase.com/us-chevrolet-equinox/ PS: I dont think the Citation nor the Chevette done damage to future Cavalier/Cobalt/Cruze sales. I dont think those cars even done harm to Celebrity/Lumina/Impala sales either as all these other cars still sold well DESPITE the shytiness pf the Citation and the Chevette... What I think done more damage is the constant name changing... Vega to Chevette to Cavalier to Cobalt to Cruze. Citation to Celebrity to Lumina to Impala.

snow and road salt and old Chevy got my attention. Then I read...Texas. I got jealous. I wanted to share a Montreal pic with you folk. So I googled vintage Montreal and winter in Montreal and all that... I wanted to somehow match Balthy's pic. This is what I got and Im very happy about it. I got a classic Montreal street, got the snow AND I got not 1 Chevy, but 2 in the pic. Im so proud of myself!!!

It looks sharp. I rarely like silver or grey on vehicles but the way yours has the tinted windows up front, the black roof and the black mags...they contrast amazingly with the silver body. In not so many words, your Flex looks great. Ive driven a loaner Flex before...on one of those many Fusion recalls, and Acura I think had given me a base Explorer (go figure...) on a TL recall, and I soooooo preferred the Flex for ride, handling, space. If I remember correctly, both had the 3.5 liter. Which I am familiar with as I owned a 2009 Edge at one time with that 3.5 liter 6. I liked that engine. Wish it was in my wife's Fusion. But Ill be honest, neither 3 were my cup of tea. But between the three, in looks I do prefer the Edge, but the Flex has kinda grown on me over the years. I still wouldnt own one. But I do like them. And if I had to own one...Id take it like in the pic below, but chrome delete. I would prefer if the door handles were either body colour but better if they were black. Your mags would be cool on it, but with red instead of the silver. Thinking about it, and googling the 2009 Edge to remember myself how it looked, I think I prefer the Flex over the 2009 Edge. Hmmmm. Weird how this turned out. PS: I prefer your Flex without the pinstriping as well!

Ill answer you this with someone else's post...that answered you but you decided to ignore...

@smk4565 You know what is funny and you havent realized it? You...yourself...keep on comparing other cars to the Corvette. Do you know what that signifies? Do you know what that means when you...yourself, keeps on throwing all kinds of cars trying to take down the Corvette? Its not a bad thing, for the Corvette, to be compared to cars costing thousands upon thousands of dollars...and thousands more than then the Corvette... Its not a good thing... for the other cars you keep throwing at the Vette to try to prove a point... The only car consistently mentioned in your rants...is the Corvette. Think about it...

*SIGH* The thing is... THAT bolded what I quoted...is what THE Corvette is all about. THAT is the VERY definition of Corvette. THAT is why its a...CHEVROLET and NOT a Cadillac. Funny...you are the one to be pushing for a mid-engined Cadillac to have all that high horsepower and for the Corvette to sgtay neutered. YOU are the one to be confused as to why GM uses a Chevrolet as its halo car. Well...THAT right there is one identity marker in what makes the Corvette a Corvette and what makes Corvette special in the car world and why the Corvette sells the amount it sells. The Corvette does have trims that are double. A 2019 ZR1 was 135 000. And you are right. The ZR1 was not the volume seller. But the ZR1 is not what Chevrolet banks on to sell on volume.... Chevrolet has a business model for the Corvette. That business model has been a success for Chevrolet for the last 50 years plus.

The 911 Turbo S is 3500 LBS... A Carrera is 3100lbs. 3500lbs because of AWD and THAT makes it porky if you wanna be honest about it. A C8 is 3600lbs. And that would be because Corvette's "PDK" unit is heavy, but sturdy to take all that possible high torque in future models. And for the folk that will heavily modify their base Corvettes. Remember, Chevy's V8 engine has the world's most aftermarket support. And that aftermarket support pushes these engines to ungodly levels of horsepower and torque... Carbon fibre also adds cost. Its not an engineering problem. Its more of a "how to mass produce carbon fibre at a lower cost so it could be viable to sell Corvette at 60 000-90 000 dollars and to do that profitable" problem. But honestly, YOU as a Mercedes lover, you really dont want Chevy Corvette engineers to figure out how to mass produce carbon fibre on the cheap because your ego will just explode... PS: its not only to mass produce carbon fibre on the cheap on Corvette's assembly line that poses a problem. Its also to find a way to to repair carbon fibre on the cheap when Corvette body panels get accidented because Corvettes are not garage queen supercars. They are raced. They are daily driven. Corvettes get smacked around pretty good.

To you. To me...the Corvette IS the best sports car in the world. Why? Because the Corvette costs thousands of dollars less and I get almost the performance that ANY other sports car does. And...I could spend just a tiny bit more on Chevy's ENORMOUS aftermarket performance goodies and I BETTER by ENORMOUS amounts ANY sports car in the world. And my Corvette would be just as reliable as it is stock from the factory. The AMG GT will cost you your arm and leg on repair bills after the warranty is up and if you decide to modify it...it will cost you your other arm and leg doing so...and reliability? By God man, there are no more limbs for you to barter with to pay for that...you'd be selling your organs...

Let me introduce you to the C8 Corvette Supercruise will eventually arrive in a year or two with the other iterations like maybe the Grand Sport...maybe it will even be available with the Z51 package next year... Remember though, Corvette prices arent suppose to reach boutique levels...so maybe interiors might take a hit a tad and the best that could be had is a Z51 interior even with a Zora... But that C8 improvement on its interiors is awesome...I wouldnt be asking more...honestly, a C4 Corvette interior was not bad for what you got and it was BETTER than the Porsche interior of the same time frame no matter what anybody says. A C5 interior was also not bad for what you got and yes...the same 911 era interior was a lot better as compared to its last gen and the C5 Vette's, but then again, the 911's price tag soared. A C6 interior was not bad either, but the pattern here is to bitch about the Corvette's interior. A C7 interior was great, but the pattern continues as to bitch about Corvette interiors. A C8 interior is AWESOME and the pattern to bitch about Corvette interiors SHOULD stop no matter how expensive some of these trims get...but the pattern to most anti-Vette folk will be to bitch about Corvette interiors...

Ill look at it later. Im gonna watch Young Guns II with the family right about now. We saw Young Guns last night. Yeah. Ive introduced my kids to the Old West during this pandemic...

That what was said above and the Zora will be a hybrid electric. Meaning...it will have electric motors boosting that power to 1000HP. How many electric motors? 3? Maybe 4? Well...undoubtedly, like @William Maley said waaaay above there in the beginning...IT WILL BE AWD... But its nice to ignore all logical posts by logical people when some of us have a goddam biased agenda around here... And it gets tiring... PS: We know NOTHING about the ZR1... just that it will be a TTV8 possibly the 5.5liter and perhaps it WONT be a flat plane crank. Perhaps Chevrolet engineers will have a traditional mechanical AWD system for it? Maybe like @USA-1 was suggesting what the C8 platform is capable of with its suspension geometry and sticky sticky rubber wont need AWD? The Z06 I believe will have active aero. The other trims, ZR1, ZORA will most likely have it too... I am not sure about the Grand Sport, though. Suffice it to say, the C8 platform is a monster...

Yeah...Montreal cops do that too. And yes...what you said is logical that most busy metro area PDs have this as standard protocol. They are there, they were called, they might as well "earn" their work effort of being called to a scene of an accident that could have been solved by just writing up a joint accident report otherwise... Like you said, its revenue so they might issue a "failure to control your vehicle" ticket or an "obstruction of traffic" ticket or some other bullshyte bylaw thing they could write you up for. But in Montreal...that kind of thing is rare. Well...Montreal police and Quebec Provincial Police (The SQ) have other ways that trap you into tickets. This way is not a favorite of theirs. But like @dfelt said...its really a safety net to protect oneself.

again... 1. making fun of me 2. trolling me 3. not responding to the content nor giving a rebuttal Whatever dude.

Yeah...I know. But...the irony is that...you live in a dream world where I come from. Problem is... You dont discuss ANYTHING. When you get pushed into a corner to vocalize and actually defend your side...you dont... You just punch up the old laughy voting thingy and ignore all other discourse. Proof again in THIS post. Im waiting to see your rebuttal when I called you out on the SEMA E COPO Camaro auction failure. I got a few counterpoints to counter you with. Im quite a few steps ahead in waiting. What do you do though? You laugh it up. You post a clowney Pinocchio while laughing at me calling me a clown in not so many words and then you tell me quite frankly that YOUR point of view is TRUTH while mine is fantasy... Yet no rebuttal of any substance... You trolled me, you called me a clown. You didnt show me ANY evidence of why a SEMA auction failure is THE WORD of EV failure. I used logic but I got rebuttals lined up for you to back up my logic. You are just laughing at me. No rebuttals. Same thing with the political talks. But you will whine about it though. So...why did you make fun of me? Are YOU the only one to be able to PHOQUE this website's rules? You hate EVs... Get the phoque out of this thread and stop trolling it if you are not going to discuss this rationally. Stop the derailing and the trolling.

That is all you do. That is all you ever do. That is all you got. Believe in a narrative. Push a narrative. Lecture us all about this narrative. Ignore everything else. Continue to believe in the narrative. (I dont fault you there...its the internet after all)...but your relentless pushing of your narrow minded narrative and your dissing the other points of view and your continual whining and the hypocrisy of it all is tiresome... So...now...you admit to trolling... Along with politics...THAT is also AGAINST THIS site's policies. Like I said, your hypocritical posting is tiresome at best...

Contempt for it or not that it has bred not, the Supra has outsold the BMW version. But THAT just proves MY point even more. BMW fanbois and Toyota fanbois could cry all they want about how one fanbase says the car is a BMW underneath and the other says its not a real BMW...the Camaro sells comfortably well... And again, the Mustang Mach E has EQUALED the Camaro sales...and sold out... Only cynical in YOUR small minded view of the world... YOU are kinda like those Supra fanbois... wah wah wah And yet, a Mustang Mach E has sold as many Camaros ICE coupes... The Camaro EV not selling as YOU put it is because of SEVERAL reasons. 1. NOT a PRODUCTION Camaro. Its a CONCEPT one off. No REAL substance there 2. NO MARKETING push for it. 3. GM's marketing sucks anyway. They couldnt sell a legit Covid19 vaccine to a Covid19 dying victim to save their sorry ass. But keep that dumb narrative alive while you think you got something going on based only on your narrow view of the world while always ignoring the BIGGER picture...

I really think the styling is doing in the Camaro. When it was on the Zeta platform, it was big and heavy and most enthusiasts were bitching about that, but the sales figures were on par to the Mustang's. It was a bunker inside but the sales were very Mustang-like. THAT was not a deterrent... The Challenger had what camaro sales have now. Actually, the Challenger sales only grew to a smaller amount. But that is because of really crazy horsepower top end Challengers fueling the lower end Challenger sales...and the addition of AWD to the V6 base version making a pony car available to those that want one in snowy States and Provinces. But, like I said, the Challenger sales only grew a tiny bit. NOT that a growth in Challenger sales mean that a decline in Camaro sales are related. Its more like Dodge's marketing with an AWD V6 base and being first to introduce crazy high HP numbers with awesome marketed Hellcat and Demon names and ad campaigns made sure that the Challenger sold in decent numbers for the years to come as a new platform is nowhere near to come. Back to Chevy. They made the Camaro smaller, more in line as a Mustang...and the sales were there as well. Its just that historically, the Mustang almost always surpassed the Camaro's in sales. But, in 2016, the switch to Alpha in sales was high. Not as high as the Zeta Camaro...but that has NOTHING to do with it being smaller, nor the interior being a bunker, nor the price tag, BUT because the STYLING has NOT changed since 2010... And now we are in 2020. And really, the first time we saw a 1969 inspired, retro new Camaro was in 2008 when the movie Transformers came out. In 2016 when Chevy introduced a new generation, the SAME 1969 inspired retro Camaro was kept that was first introduced in 2008 and made into production in 2010... Not to mention the Alpha Camaro refreshes are not exactly mind blowing as compared to what Dodge has done to their even older platformed Challenger... 2008 "Bumblebee" as a concept at the Detroit NAIAS. Then the movie came out in 2009. 2010 production Camaro 2015 Camaro. Last year for the Zeta. and the Alpha Camaro 2018 side profile Again, versus the Zeta platform In now...a decade...literally, the changes are small. The Challenger has got mind blowing marketed Hellcats, Demons and refreshes that are beautiful to augment their sales slightly. The Camaro has stumbled. But yet, STILL sell 50 000 units per year or more since 2016. On the decline, but nothing that a new styling direction cannot fix... The Mustang is just the benchmark in sales that both the Challenger and Camaro have ALWAYS been chasing and the Pontiac Trans Am and Plymouth 'Cuda STOPPED chasing...