oldshurst442

OK...now that we came to a conclusion, let's find common ground again! And I KNOW what Cadillacs to post that you and I together like! (I dont like it when we are on different pages) Ill do 4 doors instead of coupes

yes. stalemate.

It also means lazy GM designers not putting enough effort to distinguish their Cadillac pride and joy that is Eldorado from the rest of the gang. If a car crazy enthusiast much like myself doesnt care and isnt interested enough to tell the difference, what does that tell you about the Eldorado's styling? If a car crazy enthusiast much like myself doesnt see the minute details, how can you expect an Average Joe to see those minute details and...ultimately: How can you expect an Average Joe to care enough to buy an Eldorado in 1985 over a 1985 BMW 6 Series then BECAUSE it has minute styling differences from the other two? Cadillac losing market share to BMW in the 1980s and into the 1990s is a very real thing. And that Eldorado styling choice to look like an Oldsmobile ( a brand BELOW the Cadillac line no matter how much you think Oldsmobile is luxury, Oldsmobile is still BELOW Cadillac) is a big no no. One has to look at how the styling was done in 1969 to see why its a big no no...

Probably not, mate. Especially now with this pandemic thing we all have to deal with.

Its still a big no no...

These are my 4 favorite jet fighters. No particular order.

A close second are all these fighters. Spitfire, Mustang, Messerschmidt and the P40 are all in 2nd place.

Minus the damned Swastika, this would be my favorite WW2 fighter. Aesthetics wise and performance wise. And I HATE myself for loving this airplane as much as I do.

Lincoln got it right with the Continental. On the INSIDE. NOT on the outside. To use an extended Ford Fusion/Ford Edge platform that also houses the badge engineered Lincoln versions of those vehicles on that platform (CD4 platform) was the error. The MKX and MKZ Lincolns are not 1980s bad for badge engineering from Detroit, but not worthy Lincolns either. Whatever I said about Cadillac goes for Lincoln word for word... The Continental should have been on a BESPOKE platform that would capture that presence that the concept had. From the long wheelbase to the little details that made the difference for a true luxury vehicle but when they squeezed it into a FWD appliance platform, the Continental lost it all in translation. And THAT bespoke platform could have spawned OTHER high end Lincoln products. Instead of just using that "ONE FORD" mentality of a decade ago. Notice that campaign slogan was ONE FORD. FORD Lincoln is part of the FORD MOTOR COMPANY but a Lincoln is NOT a Ford... Fixing Lincoln and Cadillac really shoudnt be difficult. But it takes MONEY to build them up and time. Proper time to properly engineer proper Cadillacs and proper Lincolns WITHOUT the CHEAPSKATE BEANCOUNTING. Again....look at what Ford can do with a Ford GT and a GT350 and GT500 Mustang and Lincoln Navigator and THAT is how Lincoln could be propped up again. Time and money well spent along with awesome marketing campaigns. Lincoln as a brand could benefit from that kind of love that was given to the Mustang, GT, Navigator and Mach E... Its up to FoMoCo and Lincoln leaders to do so...

Easy peasy. Cease and desist with all base XT4s and CT4s. Dont even consider any vehicle below that threshold. XT4s and CT4s could exist, but high end ones. We all bemoan how cheap the materials are in these. Well...high end materials in them. Top of the line powertrains in them, whatever that may mean for luxury in 2020. No corporate shared engines in these Cadillacs. Even if they are XT4s and CT4s... YES...that means Cadillac and GM HAS to spend the money on Cadillac for R&D... No cheap bean counting... And hence the price tags will match the quality and technology and everything else that needs to align with what Cadillac as a true luxury brand needs to be. IE: HIGH PRICE TAGS MEANT FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY MAKE MONEY THAT PEOPLE IN THAT CLASS BRACKET COULD ACTUALLY AFFORD. The middle class folk should NOT be a clientele for Cadillac... THAT includes favorable lease deals. None of that. THAT is what BMW and Mercedes do to sell more cars in America. Cadillac needs to get away from that. Rolls Royce and Ferrari do not have favorable lease deals. Neither should Cadillac. Cadillac does NOT need to be boutique. But Cadillac does not need to be a car for everyone. CT5s and XT5s and CT6s and XT6s is where Cadillac NEEDS to play in. But THOSE NEED to be top of the line, high quality. XT4s and CT4s COULD exist for bread and butter purposes along with base CT5s and base XT5s and base XT6s. But in THIS case, what I just said, about favorable leases and cheap interiors to support mass production to support every Tom Dick and Harry to buy them NEED NOT APPLY. Cadillacs bread and butter definition just means selling enough $50 000 and above price tagged cars to make enough profit to sustain HALO BOUTIQUE car production like a SIXTEEN, or even a CIEN and MOST DEFINITELY an EL MIRAJ and CIEL where those could touch Rolls Royce price tags. Which means that ONLY top of the line availability of CT4s and XT4s, that go for 45 000-50 000 MINIMUM and BASE CT5s and XT5s and XT6s that START at $50 000-$55 000 will sell in only SMALL amounts. That means the other half of their line-up made up of high end CT5 Vs and XT5 Vs and CT6 Vs and XT6 Vs and Escalades will ALL be at the 80 000- 100 000 or above price levels. Which ALSO means Cadillac will NOT be selling a lot. But enough to make BILLIONS in profit. And then the boutique cars that WILL be at Rolls Royce price levels. Marketing takes care of the image and gotta have it levels in richer than God sheeple. Something that Cadillac lacks...is marketing and that gotta have it image. But...the product not only has to have that quality, luxury feels to them INSIDE...but the OUTSIDE has to SCREAM gotta have it too. I said its easy peasy. Its not. The easy peasy part is to actually build the quality, the technology and the luxury. Eliminate the beancounting and you get the Corvette C8. The HARD part is to convince the people to buy your product. But you gotta start somewhere. And where to start is what I said. ELIMINATE the cheap priced, cheap feeling XT4s and CT4s and base CT5s and XT5s and XT6s. START producing QUALITY HIGH END product THROUGH AND THROUGH WITH PRICE TAGS to match. Cadillac aint doing that. Not when they peddle XT4s...with Chevrolet price tags...and Chevrolet interiors to match that low price tag to sell to folk that would otherwise buy a Chevrolet or Honda but because they were enticed by a low lease price and now they could afford a "Cadillac". A Cadillac by badge, but NOT but legacy, quality, luxury or even price tag...

Even Pontiac joined in on the 1980s party. Those GM E Bodies were leftovers from the 1970s...and I wouldnt have said anything if those GM E Bodies embodied Glam Rock from Kiss or Sweet like a KITT Firebird or a mullet Camaro or even Disco like a G Body... Those E Bodies embody boogie woogie bugle boy dreams. Not new money, millionaire yuppiness that a BMW 6 Series embodies. And for the Cyndi Lauper and WHAM lovers out there. A Pontiac Fiero, as far as the1980s go , IS a beautiful machine. And what it could have been had GM not bean-counted it to death. Which blows both Corvette C4 AND BMW 6 Series outta the sky. This 1990 or 1991 concept was supposed to be the 2nd generation Fiero. Some believe it to be how the original Fiero was to be.

Here. Some real 1980s style from General Motors. From Chevrolet. This style borrows heavily from its past, but its oh so 1980s goodness. Not that dullard, stale, staid, antique styling of those E Bodies from Cadillac, Buick and Oldsmobile. But the fresh, cocaine inspired, yuppie enthused, Wall Street madness, new aged '80s craziness of the C4 Corvette.

I could feel the '80s douchey yuppiness oozing out of the computer screen as I post these pics.

Yes. Just opinions. But its fun ribbing each other though. I must admit. The Riviera is not too shabby in this early to mid 1980s era. I do prefer it over the other two GM siblings. Between all three siblings, to me, the Riviera is more classy and oozes more luxury presence. The Oldsmobile seems to be more "sporty" looking. And "sporty" is in quotation marks. Because in the 1980s. whether we like it or not, whether we like or hate these frustrated failed racing car driver automotive journalists, the 6 Series wipes the floor with this GM platform...the 6 Series WOULD be sporty...especially in M635CSi guise... And the Cadillac Eldorado just PROVES why Cadillac has failed in the market place the last 40 or so years as compared to BMW and Audi and Mercedes. Its just a badge job Oldsmobile. At least the Riviera had a few curvey body panels that were different. The Toronado and the Eldorado seem to share the same pieces...except for front and rear clips. And even if the Toro and Eldo do NOT share the same body panels, BECAUSE it SEEMS like they do...THAT would be a BIG NO NO for the halo car Caddy... I do like the Riviera. This Riviera. Not the transverse V6 ones that came after. Better than the other two GM siblings for sure. But I prefer the Bimmer. It may not be as classy as the Riviera in looks. But BMWs are not supposed to be classy... The 6 Series is sporty. And its certainly more sporty than GM's trio in looks , feels and driving dynamics. And GM's interiors at this point in time, including these three...were certainly no better than BMW's 6 Series...

^^^ Um...NO! Id rather the Bimmer. That Buick has two other GM divisions that share that badge engineered styling. Not that its ugly or anything...its just there...like a plastic fork. The 1960s and early 1970s Boattail Rivieras had shark nose front ends. BMW imitated that style early on in the 1970s and carried it through with the 6 Series in a very nice and cool 1980s kinda way. What makes that 1980s Riviera special? Because its painted all black? That Rolling Stone song was made in the 1960s ironically and by the 1980s, Metallica had their own version of "Black" in their song that was fresher and newer and...cooler...kinda like that Bimmer 6 Series By the 1980s, Mick Jagger was Dancing in the Streets with a remake trying to stay relevant...kinda like that 80's Riviera. Yeah...the metaphors are strong and rampant and I hope you get them!

Ill repeat. Stiffer springs equate to luxury? According to whom? (rhetorical question...but there are many reasons and people who accepted that characteristic to be the new definition of luxury and Cadillac and Lincoln was left out in the cold...) Ill give kudos to BMW that took that narrative and ran with it and made not only Cadillac chase them, and KIA, and Lexus, BUT Mercedes AND Audi as well. BMW had a good awesome strategy with the help of these American car magazines. But the narrative of what is luxury has changed again as times have changed...again. BMW had a hand in that too, unbeknownst to them. They muddied their offerings, made them more traditionally American with American style luxury of yore...with their bigly 7 Series and their opulent SUVs. And SUVs are more of an American thing than anything else... And BECAUSE the narrative of luxury being redefined again, THAT is why high priced, high content, more opulent versions of work horse AMERICAN pick-up trucks ARE luxury in TODAY's 2020 world... After all, their luxury branded SUV counterparts that are based on the workhorse SUVs which are based on the workhorse pick-up trucks ARE luxury, non? What is good for the goose is good for the gander, non? (regarding literally econobox BMW 3 Series and taxi cab M-B E Class...) Back to Cadillac. Cadillac does indeed need to STOP trying to sell to the lowest common denominator and trying to sell to the masses. THAT means that their vehicles...ALL OF THEM...ALL TRIMS AND MODELS....need to be TOP NOTCH which ALSO means that the price tags NEED to go up up up. Which also means that their sales WILL NOT be high... Price tags do NOT reflect quality and luxury. Quality and...the CURRENT definition of luxury define luxury. But prices NEED to reflect that. Therefore...price tags NEED to be high. But that means that regular folk...middle class folk and lower classes, even high end middle class folk NEED NOT APPLY...which means that sales are going to be limited...but that is OK. THAT is what is needed for Cadillac.

They say flying is easier than driving. (Dont know myself, I havent flown an aircraft, but that is what "they" say.) Therefore, if you could drive a car, you could fly an aircraft. (With proper training...) Yes, the military stuff is cool. Id say cooler than the civilian stuff. I happen to love both though. At one time, I liked aircraft more than I did cars.

As far as 1980s cars and 1980s styling goes, the BMW 6 Series is a good looking car. Just look what the 1980s Riviera ended being (and that also includes ya'lls favorite longtitude FWD V8 one as well as the traverse V6 one) and then you get a clearer picture of why the BMW 6 Series is a good looking car. But, thank goodness we humans dont all have the same taste and opinions. What a boring world it would be. But...those who say the 6 Series is not beautiful: Y'all are WRONG!

All you could do IS laugh... You got nothing else...

I am not suggesting that the 6 Series resembles the Riviera like I did with the other style of pics I did earlier in this thread with other cars. I just wanted to appreciate THE personal coupe of the 1960s and then show how BMW did their version 20 years later. Although you could see how BMW took some visual styling cues from the Riviera and made it their own. And yes. I think the 6 Series is beautiful.

yes he said it. He just spun it a different way afterwards when he saw his deceit could not fly with the more educated, less idiotic Americans ... Stop being an enabler... YOU are part of the problem... It doint look good when you whine about NO POLITCS. YET HERE YOU ARE CONTINUING WITH...POLITICS Back to airplanes for the SECOND TIME

You just ignore links...like the right wing piece of shyte you are. And when he says he wants to open up the Canadian/American border when his country is dying from the supposed hoax of a virus...one that YOU also believed was a hoax... (you want links to those posts YOU made when YOU downvoted me? Assh0le?) You are a bible thumper besides all that? Practise what the good book taught you... Trump...according to the good book is an evil doer. And YOU enable him... I would worry more about how you would explain to your maker on why you enable an evil doer more so than a couple of chosen words I say to you....even on Easter Sunday. At least I aint a hypocritical, evil doer enabler... When HE wanted to block 3M masks to come to Canada when Canada actually supplies the materials to 3M....yeah...I HAVE SKIN in this you MORON!!! Back to airplanes because obviously YOU are in your own retarded Trump world of lies, deceit and IGNORANCE. (You want proof that he tried to block 3M masks to Canada? You want proof that Canada supplies 3M? Google it you dumb phoque because all you are gonna say to me is fake phoquing news...)

Shove a phoquing dildo up yours, and then stick it in your mouth. The RULES STATE NO POLITICS! Why the phoquing Al Gore reference you Republican jack ass???!!! Why the Trudeau reference then you right wing assh0le???!!! You hypocritical sum bitch... if YOU wanted NO politics...then YOU wouldnt have mention Al Gore in the FIRST PHOQUING PLACE and YOU would have IGNORED MY POSTS and NOT answered me back! To which I didnt EVEN MENTION HIS PRESIDENCY! I even DEFENDED HIM! BUT ACCORDING TO YOU< YOU WEASEL, I CANT EVEN ENJOY THE FREEDOM OF CALLING HIM A CON DURING HIS 1980s DAYS! ARE YOU PHOQUING KIDDING ME???!!! YOU are a LITTLE weasel. A BIG...LITTLE WEASEL! PHOQUE OFF, BRO! You PAY for your subscription in here and THAT is why Drew defends (defended you?) and THAT is why I get the flack I do when I raise my tone in here. But that will NEVER stop me from answering you back in kind!

Nope. The 3 Series BMW was just an econobox that had sporty intentions. And sporty I mean they handled corners better than American land yachts. But that is not a strike against American land yachts. To be fair, our roads for the most part were and still are relatively straight and our highway systems were and still are meant to connect vast amounts of square miles connecting vast amounts of American and Canadian territories connecting each of us together connecting both our countries together between ourselves as Americans or Canadians from coast to coast East and West and North to South and between BOTH of our countries crossing THE longest UNDEFENDED border between 2 countries. The BMW ride that is supposed sporty is just stiffer springs. THAT is what is classified as luxury? American land yachts were PURPOSEFULLY meant wallow as to absorb any bumps on our very straight roads making our car rides as SMOOTH as possible and THAT was the philosophy. Riding on a cloud meant that THAT was the LUXURY of traveling LONG distances to achieve FAMILY vacations... The 3 Series and its predecessor had SPARTAN econobox interiors. INCLUDING 1980s M3s. The E30 1990 3 Series started getting better interiors...but please...do NOT say that a 3 Series was luxury then. Its like going back to the taxi cab M-B E Class discussion. The high price tags is because foreign cars are taxed to death in North America. But THAT also goes for American cars abroad. @ 5:38 in the video, the dude says the C8 will cost 46 000 pounds, in US money, but it will be much more than that in the UK when Chevrolet will be selling them there. 70 000-75 000 pounds to be exact he says. And hence why Mercedes cars in the 70s were almost double the price from Cadillacs. Same thing. But NEVER almost twice the luxury. Maybe 50% the luxury the Cadillacs had... Price...has NOTHING to do with luxury was the argument.... I would agree! Its just too phoquing bad Cadillac and GM and the other Detroit makers stooped soooooo low to phoque up their cars from the mid 1970s-late 1990s. But...that has all changed. Its weird looking at a BMW 3 Series today. It looks to be BIGGER than a 1980s and 1990s 5 Series. It has been...Americanized both in size, weight AND driving characteristics. Weird...huh?