oldshurst442

Yeah. I thought so! Anyway, my thoughts still stand. GM's partnership with Chinese automotive brands, like SAIC, well, I do not think they produce good stuff. I googled some of their stuff and even if the quality is up to snuff, which I dont think it to be true, they arent really appealing anyway. Their SUVs are very derivative looking and their cars look like cheap knock-offs of VWs and/or Hondas... I think they own MG automobiles...of former English decent...and some other cars look like MG cars of the 1990s...YIKES!!! While EVs are important to the Chinese market, GM is engineering their own platforms, and with Rivian, they may not need Chinese platformed EVs for Buick...although good to ease up on the EV costs, but not necessary to use. Selling EVs in China is a whole different discussion though.

Garlits? THE Don Garlits? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Garlits He said in that video that we know the planet is going green. He also said a fool would realize top fuel drag and funny car in the present configuration cant go on. 50-60 thousand dollars to make one run. It may be exciting to watch, but it aint sustainable. And THE Don Garlits is promoting electrics? In 2014? Wow! And I thought the the only way to do a drag race was with gasoline or rocket fuel... But I just realized....even if I havent gone to a drag strip in like 25 years and only twice in my life at that... I realized that although the sounds are great...the thrill aint about the sounds... Its actually the thrill of the fight...er....race itself...to see who crossed the line first or fastest... When we were young, we dragged raced with pods that had gravity as fuel. And the only sound we heard from our racing pods was squeeky wheels if we forgot to oil them up... Bet the EV haterz forgot about that, huh? Oh well...if electric drag racing is good enough for Don Garlits, then EV drag racing is good enough for me!!!

Chinese Buicks? Well, if anything, the Chinese admiration for Buick should be considered a positive for us North American Buick admirers as its the Chinese consumer that has kept Buick's iconic brand image alive. But, is GM suggesting to rebadge GM's Chinese automotive partners' vehicles and peddle them as Buicks over here? (correct me if Im wrong but the Chinese Buick sedans are what we got over here too, non? The Velite was the Verano which begat the convertible which is the Chevy Cruze anyway which had its bones be engineered by Opel...the Regal and Lacrosse are on the Epsilon 2 platform...again, Opel which the Lacrosse will die and possibly the Impala too) SHYTE! THAT is even WORSE than Opel sourced Buicks! At least Opel was part of the GM umbrella. Since 1929! Opel had a helping hand in several successful GM engineering demands over the decades...the thing is, Opel was as much a GM brand as Pontiac was. Nope! I do NOT approve of this! I smell 1980s and 1990s Buick FWD mediocre redundancy repeating itself. Buick Skyhawk of the 1970s and Buick Somerset of the 1980s and Buick Skylark of the 1990s... *SIGH*

The REAL question is how many 60 000 dollar priced vehicles (and over..but not less than 60 000)does Mercedes Benz really sell. (Not city buses and Freightliner 18 wheelers) But honest to goodness 60 000 dollar REAL luxury cars and SUVs. Because we DO know that Cadillac is at the 400 000 unit level. OK...minus a few ATS cars...Cadillac at 350 000. Not that real luxury cars should be measured by how many units sold...but since our resident M-B fan likes to hear his own voice on this, Im curious...

You know that "entry level" luxury is an oxymoron, right? You know that is not a thing, right? Like...even if the word "luxury" is in the phrase "entry level luxury", you know that is not real luxury, right? What Mercedes sells is zircon to folk. So a better way of putting that is Mercedes Benz has fooled millions into buying zircon. I hope you also know and understand that Chevy also sells a ton of "entry level" price tagged vehicles. Or as you put it...luxury priced... Because if you tally up all the HD Silverados and Tahoes and Suburbans, Chevy actually sells MORE of those 3 than what all of Mercedes sells... I wouldnt be tooting that too loudly, buddy. That Mercedes sells lots and lots of C Class and A class cars and YOU try pass those as 1%er vehicles...

I just got a crazy idea. Instead of creating dumb ass commercials trying to convince that Buicks are not for old people, why doesnt Buick build cars and CUVs tht are NOT for old people. Because even if the Cascada was a convertible, it sure looked and smelled like moth balls, if you know what I mean. I dont get it. Even in China, Buick should have at least attempted to bring back the Riviera nameplate... It would have been better if Buick actually gave the Chinese and the Americans a bloody Riviera... There is soooo much youthful exuberance in that design that no no words need to be spoken to tell people what Buick is all about... It even out-Musks Elon Musk by making bolder doors... Its even a Hybrid... The one in 2007 was similar and just as jaw dropping gorgeous. And in my honest opinion, This next one works better as a Buick than it did a Chevrolet...a cop car Chevrolet at that... I mean, its a Buick therefore a high price tag would not have caused a heart attack because Buick. Park Avenue at that... And the Chevy SS was different enough in the looks department that Chevy wouldnt be afarid to advertise the SS and sell some copies to make...you know...money... What were they afraid of with the Park Avenue? That it was the 1st generation Zeta platform? That didnt stop Pontiac in getting the G8 nor did it not phase the Chinese that bought the Park Avenue by the ton. Its not as if Buick had such an incredible image in America back then that the Zeta Park Avenue would be an embarrassment. Au contraire, it was light years ahead of what Buick was peddling back then. The Lucerne was just a re-badged Olds Aurora that was uglier...and had grandpa driving characteristics as opposed to the Aurora and especially to the even sportier Pontiac Bonneville. Its a bloody shame that Pontiac, Oldsmobile and now Buick have been mismanaged to oblivion.

Yeah! No kidding! But it somehow worked. But Buick had mojo. The engineers built Buick motors that were beasts. The stylists gave Buick some pizzazz. Ditto for Pontiac. What happened? Why did it go all to hell? HOW did they let it all go to hell? WHY did they let it all go to hell?

I thought Buick was unto something just before the bankruptcy with the Buick Enclave and then right after the bankruptcy when Buick had a great car in the new Lacrosse and then the little Verano and Encore. I thought Buick was gonna push through and BE something. But I forgot to acknowledge that Buick, really had no brand identity to make me believe that they would succeed. What is Buick's brand identity? What has Buick's brand identity been since the 1980s? They produced the Grand National and the GNX which were awesome cool rides. but why did they even do that? Those GNs did not fit with anything they had. It did put them on the map, I guess, but Buick never followed through with anything remotely close to being sporty after that. They had the Reatta, which was cool, but it took another 25 years to get another convertible in their stable. And both convertibles lasted 3 years each... What were they producing in the 1990s that gave them a brand identity? NOTHING! When Oldsmobile died, Saturn kinda took they place, but not really. Saturn's initial brand identity was scrapped in favour of imitating Oldsmobile's new found resurgence in being a foreign brand fighter, which was technically Saturn's thing too, but Oldsmobile was the one that had any real steam going forward and GM just killed them. Screwing up Saturn in the process too. But Buick? What WAS Buick's brand identity. Oldsmobile and Saturn went away and it seems like GM tried to get Buick to start where Oldsmobile left off. But with NO clear direction... Saturn got Opel's in the end, so Buick peddled Opels unto Buick when Saturn went away... OK...but Buick NEVER had a CLEAR AND CONCISE direction to follow. So I ask again. What is Buick's raison d'etre in North America? Why should I buy a Buick anything over its competition? And THAT competition INCLUDES Chevrolet and Cadillac and GMC... PS: If Buick goes away in North America, and it just might as Buick is not distinguished enough to stand out as a brand that someone might be proud of owning...what a sad state of affairs for the conglomerate that is called "General" Motors. General Motors used to mean something. It meant Chevrolet. (visions of Bel Airs, Impalas and Corvettes) It meant Pontiac. (visions of Bonnevilles and Grand Prixs and GTOs and Trans Ams) It meant Oldsmobile (visions of the Rocket 88 and Cutlass) it meant Buick ( Doctor's cars. THE Roadmaster. The Rat Pack Riviera) it meant Cadillac (THE STANDARD OF THE WORLD) We are now gonna be reduced to Chevy and Cadillac... Nah, I dont include GMC in this as I get visions of Chevrolet rebranded trucks. In other words, I think of Chevrolet when I think of GMC... ITS PITIFUL!!!

I didnt even think about that angle. Thanks for the insight.

There is a yuuuuuge difference between that Chevy's face ^^^ and the modern one!

Finally! GM has re-entered the Europen market! Maybe this bike could help with Cadillac sales over there!

I might have missed the point you were trying to make. Please explain. Slowly if you can. My brain sometimes lags...

There is nothing wrong with taking a peek...but its pathetic trying to mask a tiny penis with strong "fake" masculinity... coocoo!! Made you look!!!

I dont see the resemblance myself, about that green cartoon character and the Rivian truck, but... the Rivian truck makes me think about a Star Wars Rogue One robot for whatever reason. K-2SO I do not like the looks of the Rivian truck too much. I think the vertical, race car track like accent LED lighting around the 4 circle LED lights look bizarre and out of place to the otherwise horizontal lines it has on its fascia. That contrast does not mesh well together in my opinion. But...because it looks different and unique to other front ends in the car biz, I think its a fantastic way to establish brand identity. Besides, it aint worse than this monstrosity The Rivian truck just looks geeky and may say that the owner is awkward socially. At least it does not scream out loud that the owner of a Silverado HD truck has a tiny penis!

I take it you dont like the Matrix/Vibe LOL Listen, Pontiac was trying to be all Fast and the Furious back then BEFORE their even was Fast and the Furious. Pontiac's versions of the Quad 4 were usually the ones with slightly more horspower ratings (an earthshattering 5 horsepower more...) and were the fastest in performance of all the FWD Quad 4 vehicles. Including the Beretta GTZ or the Calais 442 or the Achieva Quad 4...The Pontiac Grand Am GTs with the Quad 4 were always the hottest versions. Oldsmobile and Pontiac understood the 4 cylinder tuner movement in the late 1980s and 1990s. But 'twas Pontiac that really tried to push the performance and excitement buttons on its cars. Pontiac was fast and the furious rice before anybody else was with their plastic cladding body panels and body kits in the mid to late 1980s. They were fast and the furious before they tried to be BMW... So I get the reasons behind the Vibe. And I applaud it. Its just that they SHOULD have pushed the Fast and the Furious buttons a LOT harder like they did with the Pontiac Grand Am GT Quad 4 a decade earlier... Including offering a 220-250 horsepower AWD, RAm Air hood, plastic body cladding VIBE GT-R for the young Fast and The Furious rebels to buy it. Toyota did that through TRD for their Matrix, but I dont think an engine upgrade was involved. Just ricey parts. Pontiac though is famous for showhorning bigger, badder engines in their more tamer offerings... Tempest to GTO anyone? OK...back to the Cadillac. I agree!

Yeah...but coudnt GM just shoehorn the ecotec? NUMMI was a GM/Toyota plant. Joint venture and I do understand that fact . But surely GM could have made arrangements to get an ecotec under there somewhere. Ecotecs were not specialty engines. They were the corporate 4 cylinder engine. Cheap to mass produce so GM could have showhorned the supercharged engine ANYWHERE... I understand what that implies....MONEY... But...this is why NOW we know why Pontiac is no longer with us and why all Pontiac had in their showrooms were FWD appliance filler redundancy... PS: I couldnt care less what Toyota done or not. PSS: Toyota rode that wave though with THEIR Matrix through TRD...

Yes. With Corolla bones. But it was still a cool little hatch. Toyota or not. Pontiac sibling or not. The tuner crowd took to them The Vibe and Matrix were offered with AWD. Now...remember, the Fast and The Furious movies are coming out at this time. Deep pride for Japanese performance on small hatches. 4 cylinders are being tuned like crazy...since the 1990s and in the early 2000s it was at a red hot peak. Pontiac has got a very tune-able ecotec at this time. Supercharged and turbo versions were offered on that engine. Tuners got 1000 horsepower with them. AWD was offered in the Vibe... The Vibe, like you said...IS A TOYOTA... The Fast and Furious movie star...IS A TOYOTA... Pontiac missed out on that BIG TIME!!! It gave us a very ricey yet very Fast and the Furiousy concept... JapaneseSportCars.com it says on that pic THAT is how Pontiac missed out...

We cant erase our past mistakes. Only learn from them and to NEVER repeat them. That goes for ALL humanity in all of its colours and cultures.

I was fine with the Vibe. It was a cool little hatchback that was a pre-cursor to the small hatch morphing into small CUV that we have today. This is the Vibe that should have been made as an option though A Vibe GT-R as a concept to introduce the Vibe. Ram Air induction. 190 horsepower versus the 180 we got ...19 inch wheels, eibach suspension...on the concept. It should have been built and given to us as an option with the supercharged ecotec that was in the Saturn Ion Red Line and the Cobalt SS. A turbo version would be also viable. This was in 2003. When Pontiac just lost its Firebird. A Vibe like that could have eased the pain a little bit for losing the Firebird. Then the GTO came along. But Pontiac would have had two performance machines in the showroom instead of 1 obscure one. Chevy and Saturn got that supercharged ecotec... Fine for Chevy, but Pontiac was the brand that built excitement. Saturn was just your different kind of company... So just like that... GM screws up two of their brands images...

Nope you are not... But when a Rivian truck replaces the good ole V8 pick-up from GM...you will... And good news, GM will probably invest in Rivian...to further the EV tech so that EVs will be the future sometime soon... PLUS...politics do carve the automotive landscape... My dad hated 4 cylinders, but in 1986, when his RWD V8 Chevy died on him, because of politics, he was guided by politics to purchase a FWD 4 cylinder Chevy. Although a RWD V8 Chevy could be bought, the same one that died on him, (a 1979 Impala versus a 1986 Caprice), his purchase was a 4cylinder Celebrity. And when that died in 1994, his next purchase was a FWD 6 cylinder. He never wanted that FWD vehicle. His desires were always RWD V8s...and he could have bought a new version of his favorite RWD V8 Chevy, he was stuck buying a FWD V6 Pontiac. because politics made it expensive for him to drive RWD V8s... wanting and buying... EVs are expensive NOW... Like I said...short term blindness...

mmmmmm. No. Politics seem to put a dent to that argument. Government regs also seem to put a dent into that argument. CAFE did a lot to downsize cars in the 1970s. Japanese cars got a foothold in this market because of CAFE. FWD became the norm. 4 cylinder engines became the norm. The thing is...stricter CAFE TODAY is pushing EVs into our future...regardless of market share... The future is coming BECAUSE plans were changed...for ICE CAFE regs...regardless of what EV market share is in 2019... Unless CAFE regs change, plans for EVs will not change... Trump wanted to eradicate what Obama did with those strict CAFE regs....but GM of all corporations thought that was a bad idea, because GM wants to push forward with the EVs and though that if those CAFE regs were to disappear, than that would delay the progress made for EVs...GM wants to have less strict CAFE regs, but still strict enough for EVs to push through... Like I said...most of all the automotive world WANTS the EV future to happen. I havent strayed from that thought. because THAT is the reality... Its a GLOBAL direction and the automotive world is behind it all the way.

Well...I got the same speculation on the opposite side of the fence... That was not meant for a victory parade for you. Nor for me. But was just a way for me to tell you that you aint right. You aint wrong, But you aint right. We have reached an impasse regarding our debate. Which is good. But that impasse does NOT mean that EVs are NOT gonna be our future... Those plans for EVs going forward are par for the course as we speak. Especially when many OEMs are spending billions on this.

Nothing concrete yet. Diesel fuel is 100% sure though. But, like I said with the HD broadcasting thingy. It will take a collaboration of everybody to make this a reality. You and I do NOT know what kinds of talks are happening BEHIND the scenes to facilitate such a move, between everybody involved... to ban ICE. And yes...automotive CEOs DO talk to world leaders for such things... Speculation is all I got. But speculation that this is not gonna happen is all you got too... But because there is soooooo much talk about EVs and bans and stuff, it looks like Im closer in my speculations than you are. All you got is plans change. I got proof of those plans being in effect and par for the course. Until further notice, But that hasnt happened....yet...but we dont know if that will ever happen, that the EV plan will be reversed...

You are right. Plans always change. Still doesnt change the fact that as of now...EVs are the future going forward. THAT is THE plan going forward. And until further notice, THAT is what WE have got going. And...unless you could tell the future and tell me for sure that plans WILL change...you got nothing...just a generic statement of plans always change.