oldshurst442

Well, Peugeot has changed since those days. Peugeot has also gained a more upscale and sporty identity but retained a still affordable price. Think of what Oldsmobile could have been in the mid 2000s had GM not killed them off. Or a better managed Saturn brand as soon as Oldsmobile went away. Or even Buick just a few years back had Buick built on what the Verano and Encore established... But the main thing is that their cars are no longer junk.

I dont know anymore.... yeah...The Verano and the Malibu Premier. If I was to stay with the Chevy theme of ranting against Cadillac being in the same showroom floor as Chevrolets...and complaining about Cadillac being in the same price range as top level Chevrolets, and sharing more or less the same 4 cylinder turbo, yeah, the Premier Malibu. Sorry for the mistaken identity and for the long winded rants.

Well...Buick is tippy toeing towards an end in North America. Because there is an over-saturation of brands here. (How is it that Hyundai managed to create a lux brand and create several cars for it, and managed to get those models to sell at KIA as well, but GM cant seem to get Buick to sell and have Cadillac's target market on track in the same time frame that Hyundai decided to get their luxury brand online?) Peugeot... Well...they cant do any worse than Alpha Romeo and Fiat. Hell, they cant do any worse than Buick... So yeah... on a different point of view that I had earlier...it DOES seem that Im telling you that there might be a chance... even if it IS a one in a million chance... Against all odds, Genesis seems to be surviving somehow in North America. Acura and Infinity and Lexus replaced Oldsmobile, Pontiac and Mercury in that market place. Hyundai and KIA seems to have replaced Saturn and Plymouth. Genesis seems to be doing something.... I do NOT know what, but I do know that Buick aint too hot right about now... Cadillac cars are struggling...Lincoln cars are struggling. Lincoln SUVs are OK...Cadillac SUVs are better than OK... Acura is now stagnant... BMW and Audi, Mercedes are doing better than OK... Hey...maybe there is a slight chance of Peugeot making a dent here...who knows?

Not in Canada. Well, at least in the Montreal region, I do not know of one stand alone Cadillac dealership. Does not exist is what Im saying. As far as RWD and the ATS.. The ATS is a fine precision handling machine, even at the lower end. But that 2.0T does NOT belong in ANY Cadillac...And while the Fusion is AWD and a family hauler and the top trim where the lower trimmed ATS resides...again...THERE is where the problem resides.. Cadillac should have never been reduced to be a European version of BMW or Mercedes Benz to chase volume to where Cadillacs become econoboxes themselves to compete in that price range... With the risk of sounding like SMK... The ATS does NOT have a V8. The ATS does NOT have a convertible version. Yet, the Chevy version does...and has the SAME base engine. 2.0T The Chevy version does not have a sedan version but that somehow makes the ATS appealing? Why? So the owners could haul other people in it, like their family? So...how does THAT differ from the FWD Fusion that could be optioned to be a hot little AWD number? And IF Ford had decided to do a RS/ST version instead of a subdued Sport version, how does THAT bode for Cadillac and the ATS? Because Cadillac and RWD? Like I said...take all that we are bitching about the Blazer, the different sized saucages and platform sharing GM is doing, but apply THAT to Cadillac... The Acadia, the Transverse, the Blazer, the Enclave...its all fine...for volume and profit. Boring as phoque SUV appliances. But THAT is what Chevy and GMC is for. Not so sure for Buick, but whatever. Doesnt Cadillac deserve MORE than that though? And back to the XT5. FWD... I swear I could hear SMK laughing at us over here!!! The ATS was such a waste and took Cadillac 2 steps back. The car itself was fantastic...image wise I think it sucked. The BMW 3 Series grew in size and IT became a tweener to where the former CTS was. How ironic... But to NOT screw themselves in Europe primarily, BMW made a 2 Series which was closer in size to when the 3 Series WAS the ultimate driving machine...and an econobox at that! THIS thread, even though we are bitchin' about Blazer value and high price, I think we should really come to grips that Cadillac may not be going in the right direction going down market chasing Chevrolet volume... Sure, Cadillac is getting those high sales with their FWD CUVs...you said it yourself...FWD... We are bitching about the Blazer being yet another FWD appliance fodder...and getting pissed because it steps on Cadillac's FWD appliance fodder, and suggesting that Ford's FWD appliance fodder maybe a better value than the Chevy, yet we arent flinching about how WRONG it is for Cadillac to even BE in this price point and configuration to begin with!!!

Yes...far cry... But in reality...THAT is the problem... Why in the world are we even mentioning Pontiac Torrent and Chevy Blazer in the same breath as Cadillac XT5? For Cadillac to chase those Lexus RX buyers? Who are the same as those Acura RDX buyers? Who also flock to buy the ILX/RDX/EL/Integra? Which GM sold the Pontiac Sunbird GT and Saturn Ion red line to compete with? Which was a Cimarron? THAT is the problem... Cadillac does NOT need to have what Chevy/Pontiac/Oldsmobile has or had. Cadillac and Chevy COULD platform share...but Cadillac needs to really distance itself from that Pontiac/Oldsmobile/Buick price points. Leave that to Chevy, Buick and GMC. Cadillac needs to become Cadillac again. The badge? As far as Im concerned, at the lower price points of an ATS versus a Ford Fusion Sport or Platinum. Cadillac no better than Ford here. The dealership experience? When a Chevy Cruze is bought at the same lot as the ATS with the same 2.0T? The Ford dealership and the Cadillac dealership experience at the GM superstore selling Chevys and Cadillacs might actually be the same...

And overlapping trims and price points fighting for the same sorry assed customer base... Where, maybe this problem that existed then, today, is less apparent...so yeah Frogger! But... THIS what was said is NOT to be ignored... Because... While this makes sense because... Obviously this is more important...but... There is a way to do this... As Volkswagen has done succesfully, as GM once upon a time ago did that succesfully too Because ultimately...the way things are going...NOT with Chevy and the Blazer, but with Cadillac and the XT4, CT4 and if the Chevy models ever get to Oldsmobile levels of confort and luxury across all their models, which Chevy can...(1957 Bel Air, Impala, early1970s Monte Carlo and Kingswood), Cadillac will be questioning their own existence like how Balthy was saying to me earlier, Because Cadillac as of now, other than the Escalade, is not being seen as a top tier luxury brand. How could it when us, as enthusiasts in a GM primary website, give flack to Chevy for being in a Cadillac realm of pricing, which is at the lower end of the spectrum, yet we are quite content with Cadillacs being priced to compete with Ford Edge STs.. Because what it REALLY boils down to...FORGET about the Blazer...GIVE ME ONE GOOD REASON WHY I SHOULD BUY THE CADILLAC XT5 OVER THE FORD EDGE ST???!!! Yes...use ALL the criteria we are bitching about the Blazer and transfer THAT unto to Cadillac... BECAUSE THAT is my issue with all this. The Blazer is fine where it is. Its Cadillac the real problem here!

LOL. Both actually. I was under the impression that Lasalles were manufactured by the same factories that Cadillacs were produced in and yes, at lower prices that Cadillacs were sold at and because I thought that Cadillacs were manufactured in the same factories as Cadillacs were, I thought that Lasalles were just cheaper priced Cadillacs with a Lasalle badge on them instead of a Cadillac badge on them.

Cadillac is not..well was not, your average luxury brand. It was much more than that. The Lasalle brand was created to sell at a price point lower than Cadillac that Cadillac actually manufactured, right? The brand stopped being produced because of WW2, right? But when WW2 ended, Buick just just took over that spot, right? And Cadillac just continued on being THE Standard of the World and in North America at least, was even more prestigious that Rolls Royce right? Even producing a model that cost more to buy than Rolls Royce, right? I mean, V16 Cadillacs of the 1930s were always in that Rolls Royce territory, along with Deusenbergs but after WW2, Cadillac was very much alone in that regard, right? I mean, America was just about the only country that was not exactly decimated by WW2 and thrived 10 fold after, right? Leaving Cadillac and with Lincoln, to be the choice for the world's most rich and powerful. And those folks were in America for the most part, right? JUST because the 1960s happened and that was the start for GM going haywire with all the brand overlapping and it went out of control in the 1970s and by the 1980s is was too late for Cadillac to right the ship that in 2019 going forward that Cadillac HAS to have a Cimarron sedan and Cimarron CUV in their line-up just to be like every other luxury brand does it today, right? I want Cadillac to BE the Standard of the World. Doing what other luxury brands like Acura, Lexus, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Jaguar does it, does NOT mean that Cadillac NEEDS to. Rolls and Bentley are in the boutique level of luxury. Top top top tier. Ferrari and Lamborghini are boutique sports car makers that will be producing boutique SUVs... Porsche WAS a boutique sports car maker and now has become a full fledged SUV maker. Not even a boutique SUV maker as their Macan is based off of VW bones and sold in mainstream levels of sales in that slightly higher than Chevy Blazer prices... Im sure there is a spot where Cadillac could and SHOULD thrive in. Somewhere where a Porsche Panamera resides in no lower and for now, as high as a Mercedes S Class Maybach. Until Cadillac gets enough steam to go higher than that. Of course awesome cars and cuvs with 50 000 dollar price tags from Cadillac could be sold, but those gotta be the best of the best vis-a-vis the competition. That means no lease queens with 2.0T engines. That means ATS V as THE base ATS and as the lowest Cadillac cars and CUVs go with luxury interior and performance. That means the CT5 should be at the very least a V sport in conception. As a base vehicle. THAT is what I envision Cadillac to be. I dont want Cadillac to be the American version of the European version of BMW or Mercedes Benz. I want Cadillac to be...CADILLAC.

I made a quick, dramatic post about what vehicles and markets Id want Cadillac to be in without really thinking about it too deeply, but yeah, what you said here is what I believe in as well.

Quebec has NEVER mirrored France. The people have NEVER wanted even to be, French...fromm France. The people are very quite comfortable in being French Canadian with our, (yes, even I Im Greek, I see myself as a Quebecois) own French (Quebecois) culture that is...Canadian... The love of hockey. Yes its a Canadian thing, but its a religion here. The Quebecois were the first in North America to denounce religion...to distance religion from politics and public affairs. Therefore hockey remains the sole religion. The French Canadians have adopted mainly American sports like baseball. Curling is not a thing in Quebec. Baseball is. Football too. Soccer aint a thing here. We follow it as there are many Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Greek, Irish, Mexican folk, but baseball, hockey, football (yes the NFL) still has a stronger following than soccer. As much as Montreal is very European in many regards, its American too. But Montreal prides itself of being both. Quebec city prides itself being of French settlers, but its QUEBEC City...not a French from France city. Quebec has always wanted to speak French...in THEIR province. Speak English but not to have the English dictate to them in THEIR province what to do... France is nowhere mentioned in Quebec affairs. While some France cultural aspects along with European ones are quite apparent in Quebec, like alcohol drinking at the age of 18 in bars or closing time for bars being 3:00 AM or sex not being such a taboo... prostitution not being frowned upon, pimping yes, not prostitution per se...Quebec laws balance European way of life as much as North American... And I could go on, but it is a car forum... I just wanted to make that clear. That French Canadians LOVE being Canadian being French Canadian, in North American having their own little piece of Earth called Quebec.

Let me guess. Quebec is one of those provinces? Quebec does buy more small imported vehicles than any other province and the French population might adopt Peugeot as PSA is...from France. It may be a cultural thing now that the Quebec people have slowly accepted their Frenchness as for the longest time, the French Canadian Quebecois hated France for ditching them in North America. Some cars and CUVs that they sell are attractive, but relying on one province to do you success in North America is foolish as I dont think the other 3 Canadian provinces and the 15 American states gives a shyte for French cars.

Yes. I could agree to that. I cant disagree because it really is the truth. That "brands overlap brands & models overlap models. It's the way the industry has been for decades." Was it a smart move on Chevy's part to introduce the Impala and the way Chevy sold the Impala with all that class and "luxury" features it had? Over 13 million sold making it the highest selling Chevy model. The answer is clearly yes! My beef, if its not already clear, is not that Chevy is aiming that high. Im good with it! My beef is with Buick not focused properly and their product line is suffering for it. My other beef is that Cadillac is aiming TOO low. I dont mind if they do go low somewhat, since GM does not have the Pontiac and Oldsmobile filler brands anymore, but to encroach Chevy levels of price, not a good thing. Again, Ill bring up ATS and XT4. Cadillac does NOT need this. Chevy could handle that part. BLAZER anybody???!!! Camaro anybody? If Cadillac wants a small performing RWD car, maybe the ATS-V Sport with a TTV6 400 horsepower that the V currently has SHOULD be the LOWEST ATS it offers and the full out V should be the V8 that the Camaro ZL1 offers... Lease queen ATS with the 2.0T should NOT even be a thought for Cadillac dealerships. BUICK could handle the lease queen 2.0T ATS level vehicles... XT4? Same thing... Cadillac does not need this... The problem with this is that BMW and Audi and Mercedes has this world wide. That world wide, BMW, Audi and Mercedes Benz sell lower market vehicles, but these lower market vehicles are NOT sold as entry level luxury or luxury. Those models are really sold as econobox cars. Cadillac's strategy to emulate that is doing it wrong... Therefore, if Cadillac wants to sell a bazillion 2 Series and 3 Series econobox competitor cars in Europe and in China, that Cadillac has to sell itself as an entry level brand...there, and here... But Cadillac was NEVER that. Therefore Cadillac should just cut that crap out! No need for Cadillac to overlap Chevrolet... THAT is how I sees it. ATS, XT4, XT5 is just Cadiallc overlapping Chevrolet. I dont sees it as the Blazer overlapping Cadillac. I sees the XT5 overlapping the Blazer...not a good thing for Cadillac!

From my perspective: Cadillac shouldn't be playing at this level. Cadillac shouldnt be selling cars at this price point. Cadillac shouldnt be trying stoop to Lexus or Acura levels of entry level lux. That WAS Oldsmobile territory and Pontiac. Cadillac should be higher level than that. Now that Olds and Pontiac are gone, leave that to Chevy and Buick and let Cadillac BE Cadillac. THE standard of the world. You aint gonna get there by selling "entry level" BS marketing... THE standard of the world MEANS building and selling dreams. Not crappy XT5s. By building and selling sky is the limit Ciels and golden dreams Eldorados... ATS...nope CTS...nope. CTS-V: YES! CT6 and CT6-Vs: YES! Escalade: YES! XT5:NOPE XT6: MAYBE XT4: ARE YOU MAD???!!! NO WAY!!! The Blazer is fine where it is. Its Cadillac that is out of its league here! It SHOULD aim higher! We are bitching about a Chevy having a base 2.0 liter 4 banger, but over at Cadillac, Cadillac uses the same base 4 cylinder in certain models yet we dont cry fowl for Cadillac doing that. Am I missing something?

THAT would be the answer to everything, right? Different people value different things... Now, if you noticed, I did not quote you on the horsepower/torque numbers. Nor do I wanna us to go on a defending rant of why X model is worth more and is valued more than Y model because of whatever reasons... I could cry fowl and shout 'til the cows come home why BMW is NOT worth their price of admission at ANY level they sell CUVs and cars at, but there are takers. I could call those BMW leasers/owners fools and laugh at them just as we have done here with the Blazer. But in reality, if ANY car manufacturer sets a price for a certain car, and it sells in the market place in high enough numbers for a profit, then its a sales success no matter what we say about it. Like I said, I could turn blue in the face with anger about BMWs, but BMWs sell in quite the high numbers....at a profit... We'll see what the market place has in store for the Blazer. Especially vis-a-vis its competitors. Personally, I do prefer the Edge ST, any Edge, over any CUV, but I really dont care how many it has got over the Blazer. Personally, If I valued speed over anything else, I wouldnt even be looking at a CUV, and I know, you even showed me how the Edge ST is a GREAT performer, but in MY eyes, I dont value CUVs in that light...I STILL would prefer a car, coupe, for speed over a CUV...even though the Edge ST may wipe the floor over some cars that I deem to be performance cars... In other words...different people value different things. I dont find a problem with the Blazer being that high in price. I havent sat in one either to see if the fit and finish is on par with its competitors, but assuming that fit and finish, options are on par, hey, if Chevy can peddle a Blazer at 50 000 dollars, more power to them. Ive seen quite a few Edge's in my neighborhood. None of the ST kind. Gasoline prices are high where Im at. Bolts and Model 3s are everywhere though... (at approximate same price points...) Different people value different things...

I do not know what to tell you on that. Pontiac is no longer around, the excitement brand. Mind you, Chevy was always full of excitement after 1955. The Tri-box Chevys, the Corvettes, Corvairs, the SS vehicles from Impala to Malibus (Chevelles) to Camaros. Chevy also had a touch of lux as well. The 1957 Bel Air. The Impalas of the 1960s. The Caprice name plate after that. The Monte Carlo. The Kingswood station wagons. A touch of lux on the Chevrolet side of things, but you have to admit, those cars had class. Therefore, Chevrolet could EASILY today and has done so countless of times throughout is history, be Pontiac, Oldsmobile AND Chevrolet all at the same time. People gravitate towards Chevrolet. Chevrolet would be missing a big opportunity to NOT try to get as many sales as Chevy can at whatever price level. If it could go slightly up market to where Oldsmobile was and still sell affordable stuff, why not?

Yeah... But The Acura RDX is a competitor too. The RDX starts at 38 000. It is slightly smaller than the Blazer, but..still has a 2.0T... Which one is the Blazer and which one is the RDX? The Murano seems to have been a pioneer for this segment 15 or so years ago.

True. It seems though, that Chevy is focused on Acura as well, on the Blazer. Not a negative mind you. A very good thing. Where it becomes bothersome is that Buick is not focused on anybody in particular and is getting lost in the shuffle by its other corporate siblings which leaves Buick to be in no man's land. Cadillac's focus is ever changing with all those changes on top. Johan is gone, the new guy is in and yet again, the ship is sailing in a slightly different course....again. The more things change, the more they stay the same...

Yeah! GMC Acadia and Buick Enclave. It seems like the Cadillac XT5 and soon to be XT6 is the Pontiac Lemans, 4 door Bonneville and Grand Prix while the GMC Acadia would be the Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme or something like that... The only cure for that would be to cut Buick loose. GMC, as long as GMC is quite different in philosophy than Chevy and Cadillac, which they are, then it be fine. But it seems like Buick is lost in space somewhere. Chevy is encroaching its territory from below while Cadillac is encroaching its territory from above.

How I see the price situation with the Blazer vis-a-vis the Cadillac XT5 Cadillac is trying to go downmarket to sell higher volumes. The ATS...the base price of an ATS is lower than the highest trim Malibu...has the same 2.0T engine...OK, one is FWD and the other is RWD. Does that really make that much of a difference when most folk either dont care or dont even know what the difference is? Chevrolet, more like GM, is trying to fill a void in the mid level of price for the lower end brands, ie Chevrolet, when Pontiac and Oldsmobile are no longer in existence. This Blazer could have been a G-Body equivalent back in the day. I see the Blazer as it being a G-Body equivalent. Back in the day there was a Malibu, and Monte Carlo and the Monte Carlo came in "luxury" LS trim or "muscle car" SS trim. The Malibu was a coupe or 4 door family haluer that had a V8 option making it a "muscle car" on the cheap. Then there was Pontiac with their Lemans coupe and 4 door Bonneville and the Grand Prix. At a higher price than the Chevys. Then there was Oldsmobile and the Cutlass and Buick with their Regal... Cadillac did not even play in this market. Well...The XT5 is what the Cutlass and Regal was and the Blazer is what the Monte Carlo SS and the Grand Prix were. And this is why there is an overlap in price with a Chevy and Cadillac. Ive complained about this before, but not on Chevy. But on Cadillac. For me, its fine that Chevy is aiming high in that price range. For me, I do not want Cadillac to be aiming that low. I have a problem for Cadillac playing in the 40 000-55 000 dollar price range. I want Cadillac ONLY to be at the 60 000 dollar price range and up.

Maybe that dealership relocated to Washington due to lack of interest by Montrealers for Opel vehicles...

Yuck! The last Mercedes of that size I liked was the 190 way back when. And even then... One thing that I was surprised to see in Greece last summer, that Bimmers were nowhere to be seen. But the C Class was everywhere. It was shocking to me as in the 1980s, 1990s, and early 2000s the BMW 3 Series in Greece was a staple. I guess your feeling for getting your partner into one may not be such a bad idea...if Greeks like it (not this Greek though) then you cant go wrong... But you sure you want to trust a nation that has a hard time with their money for the last...100 years...yet drive Mercedes Benz C Classes? ? Their judgement may not be the best you know... Something to think about...

Im laughing. But for you at the time must not have been that funny! Im also laughing at the effect our resident M-B fanboy has had on us. +1 on the Skylines! I dont think Ill ever own a German car. Ever. Ill drool over some cars that have come out of Germany, but Ill never buy one.

The story actually made me tear up. Family owned business. Knowing their customers. GM reps telling them to get rid of the gas pumps but the guy knew that was a stupid idea as he knew how to get people to come in his dealership. He knew his customers. He would order vehicles with specific clients in mind with specific options knewing well when the time has come for his loyal cutomer base to change vehicles back in the day... Small town mentality. Small town friendliness and hospitality. Sure it was a business....to make money, but doing business with your friendly neighbors is what we have lost in our selfish ways nowadays. They support your business, you sell them stuff at fair and reasonable prices. Which in turn makes you buy from your other friendly neighbor Hood stores around you.... THAT is what made me tear up! Thax Balthy. Great story indeed.

This car is too cute for my tastes. Or so I thought. But there are soooooo many cute details embedded in this car that Im ashamed to admit that I like. I like that charm the Mini Cooper has. Take here these taillights for instance. And there are other similarly cute details too. You cant help BUT like a car this cute. It is embarrassing when you pride yourself a very macho muscle car lover though. This next one needs no words explaining why. Im mean, just look at it!!! And finally. I hate SUVs. Cant STAND THEM. I HATE BMWs. Im VERY local with my friends and on any automotive forum website on how much I hate SUVs and how I LOATHE BMW and how I LOATHE BMW for insulting our intelligence with this SAV bullshyte. With that being said... So you could see how me admitting to this becomes embarrassing. Ok...downright hypocritical. Hey...it is what it is!

Yet Ferrari...went from a 6.3 liter V12 to a...gulp...6.5 liter V12 in their 812 Superfast, that they will continue to build. Coincidentally, Chevy's, Dodge's and Ford's largest displacement V8s in their 700 plus horsepower behemoths are smaller than Ferrrari's 6.5 liter V12.. Hey...arent F1 engines 6 cylinder affairs nowadays? So what does F1 races have to do with 1%er V12 engines anyhow? Alls I know is that Ferrari is doing juuuuust fine with V12s and their supercars! sometimes downsizing doesnt always work while keeping the status quo works miracles...if past history taught us a lesson...