oldshurst442

About that Catera...

The Middle East got even BETTER versions of this car!

The Lumina SS

These had the Corvette's venerable 5.7 liter V8 under the hood in SS form! I don't know if it was the LT1 or the LS1, but yeah...V8!

Maybe Cadillac should have gone the V8 direction in North America too with the Catera.

Anybody read Arabic?  Anyway...there are numbers in the article down at the link that makes sense to my English eyes! Maybe they make sense to your English eyes too...just click on the link!

http://www.motiontrends.com/2001/m10/features/holden/holden.shtml

About the CLA not doing any damage to M-B's image...

All in due time.

When M-B OVER saturates the market full of CLA's and closer to mainstream C Class and E Class cars in North America along with the GLA and other MAINSTREAM offerings that play the pretend luxury card...you will see that damage...not now...in 5-10 years from now. And they will hurt as much as Cadillac is hurting now...

They walked away from this mess ONLY because dumb Americans  were  blinded by the love they have for German cars and the HATRED they have for American cars...but as Cadillac and Chevrolet offer BETTER cars for each and every price point Mercedes Benz offers...that hurt will come awfully soon! 

You see, American cars are getting better and better perceived by Americans themselves...

About this chat of slow tossability and today younglings discovering it...

1. I don't think today's cars have this slow fun tossability quality to them, therefore I don't think this phenomenon exists!

Why?

Today's cars are sooooooo in tune with safety in mind (electronic and computer controlled safety nannies), with traction control and electronic hand brakes and the like...that how CAN  one toss and turn and break the tail end loose? One has to have  wet pavement or snow to do that, or reach speeds that are too dangerous to achieve all that in the first place requiring insane horsepower levels JUST to achieve that in a short amount of time and space!

2. Today's cars are soooooo good in balancing weight and driving dynamics and the brakes are soooo good and the tires are wide and the tires have sooooo much more grip and the handling of MOST cars is so taut that the limits of even the most mundane car is pretty damned high requiring any type of shenanigans to be made at high enough speeds that are too dangerous to achieve all that in the first place requiring insane horsepower levels JUST to achieve that in a short amount of time and space!

@Sal Collaziano

I don't really care about all this back and forth to tell you the truth.

It was just a perception that I caught that I thought was a tad false and misleading.

I gave my opinion on it, you rebutted, I countered again. You acknowledged me. 

I respect you for that and that is why I upvoted your retreat post.

I don't want to bully you into submission.

I don't want you to feel like you owe me something.

I want you to continue with your insights.

You the hell am I to make you do otherwise???!!!

With that being said.

Buick and Lincoln, in 2017, serve different roles in the luxury market both in North America and in China.

Buick and Lincoln, in 2017, serve different roles within their respective corporate parent company as well.

I wanted to get that message across.

I did it with an "in your face" way about...that is just how I do things to make a point!

Nothing personal.  Just entertainment.  But that opinion that I shared with you, even if it was 'in your face', it is still a reality that is closer to the truth than what you originally wrote.

As far as your latest post is concerned, that post is more sincere and closer to reality than what you originally posted.

Thanx Sal, for hearing me out!

27 minutes ago, Scout said:

What the flock did I just read?  . 

I dont know!

Im a tad (phoqued up ) after reading it too!

@A Horse With No Name

I know you are just busting my chops in a playful way!

I enjoy returning the banter!

Its all in good FUN!!!

No peeing on the carpet for me anymore!

Im all grown up!!!

Im a big kid now!

On 2017-06-03 at 3:24 PM, Sal Collaziano said:

I'm not really comparing Lincoln to Buick at all. What I'm saying is people thought Buick was going to be America's version of Lexus but Lincoln took over that mission. Lexus isn't falling from grace because of it's styling. It's falling from grace because of its old drivetrains...

@Sal Collaziano

I noticed that @2b2 gave you a +1 for this post.

I took it away...

Why?

This explanation is more for @2b2 rather than yourself. I gave you a +1 for the last post you made!

On 2017-06-03 at 11:06 AM, Sal Collaziano said:

Continental vs LaCrosse? Of course, no contest

There it is!

A DIRECT comparison!

Hence why I rebutted with this:

On 2017-06-03 at 4:22 PM, oldshurst442 said:

Buick for the most part of its existence ALWAYS played second fiddle to Cadillac and consequently to Lincoln as Lincoln was Cadillac's rival!  Sure Buick had many many models in its historic past that were Cadillac and Lincoln equals, it really is NOT a compliment to compare the HISTORIC and AWESOMENESS of what the CONTINENTAL NAME PLATE MEANS TO THE LACROSSE NAME!!!

 

And this:

20 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

IN OTHER WORDS:

The Lacrosse is more like a MKZ rival.

Buick really has no answer or competitor to the Continental.

If people think that the Continental  could be  cross shopped with the Lacrosse, I think its a WIN for Buick, NOT the OTHER WAY AROUND!!!

INCLUDING the pics of the late 1990s/early 2000s  Lincoln Continental and Buick LeSabre!!!

@A Horse With No Name

The exclamation points are still there!!!!

No!!! Today was a nice WARM day!!!! 

Thank-you for asking!!!

The 1990s is where Mercedes got its real wind!'

That is the car that started it...

Before that...

Beverley Hills trophy wives drove these around...

Yeah...they were lusted after...but really, this model was sold in the 1970s all the way to 1989...

in the 1970s...THIS was TRAILING IN EVERY ASPECT ANY CADILLAC CAR in terms of tech, luxury AND desire!

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Everyone keeps saying "after the war" I am talking about going into Europe in the 70's, 30 years after the war.

Now...seeing your failed attempt to make it seem that Mercedes-Benz was a luxury car maker in the 1950s and 1960s...(at least you have moved on from that!!!)...you are trying to make it seem that Mercedes-Benz has high almighty in the 1970s...(yes Mercedes was starting to role but as a MAINSTREAM car maker with a couple of high rollin' models!)

I tolod you...I visited Greece thrice in the 1970s...the one time I was 1 years old...but the other two times I remember quite well...

The mechanicals of the W123 was sturdy like a tank...the interior left much to be desired...both in taxis and in civilian hands...why?

Europeans were POOR!

WE Americans were LAVISH!

WE were the ones to bask in the luxury!

Hence why ours cars were the way they were in the 1950s, 1960s and the 1970s...

And hence why European cars were SPARTAN...

Maybe you should start adding things up in your head and come to the proper conclusion!

THAT is what you literally saw...plus many in civilian hands too!

I rode in both taxis and civilian models both in 1977, 1979 AND in 1985 and 1987...because I went to Greece in 1985 and 1987...and trust me...the W123 was nowhere near being luxurious!

My dad's 1979 Chevrolet Impala was VERY comparable...interior quality...actually...WORSE than my dad's 1979 Impala!!!

In the good 'ole USA...we got the luxury side of Mercedes Benz...but even in the 1980s...Mercedes Benz was BEHIND in luxury and in sales to Cadillac!

Perception was changing...but 'twas the JAPANESE that headed THAT attack! Not Mercedes Benz!!!

I don't know how you got this idea that Mercedes Benz was high and  mighty in the lux department after the war....but we are 4 guys trying to school you...please listen!

Drew mentioned that Europe was war torn.

Casa said that both Allied and Axis forces bombed the shyte out of ALL European factories.

Balthy said that Europeans were too poor to buy Luxury cars and that Europeans are too nationalistic to buy fporeign makes...Drew and Casa also said that.

I POSTED pics...I gave you anecdotes of MY personal experiences...

The truth is there for you to acknowledge!

The REAL BMW of the 1960s

THIS is the car that kept the lights on at BMW

THAT was the state of LUXURY in Europe and THAT is why Cadillac did NOT go to Europe!

This is what they also sold at this time

Elvis bought one!

But it was AMERICAN MONEY that bought that! Not European money!

He also had...plenty of CADILLACS!

Not too bad lookin. Sexy Id say!

But nowhere near the technology that American cars had!

ONLY the Gullwing had state of the art tech!

But the top American cars all had access to that tech and was offered as options before the decade was up before 1960...

The Vette itself offered the same tech as the Gullwing the year after with Fuel Injection and the like!!!

Post-war Europe was left a disaster...

In reality...most RURAL Europeans rode these well into the 1970s...

In the cities...it was not all about the donkey, but in the 1950s and early 1960s, most people did not own that W114 Mercedes.

He will big time disappointed to know the reality of post-war Europe.

He does have one clue though, he keeps on mentioning it....

The displacement tax...

He should google what engines those cars came in....and he just might realize that Mercedes Benz wasnt selling that many W114s anyhow....'twas SMALLER Mercedes cars...

PS: a 2.4 liter engine in Greece is STILL humongous displacement, so NO! 

Cars for the regualar Joes in Europe well into the 1990s all have displacement of 1.9 liters or LESS!!!

sold from 1935-1942

then from 1946-1955 

The engine offered will only embarrass him further....

1955-1962

1.8 and 1.9 liter 4 pots in either gas or diesel

And these were for the better salaried folk of Europe...NOT MUCH TO TALK ABOUT, HUH?

Citroen 2CVs and Morris Minors and Opel Kadetts were the cars that really sold

Opel Kadett sold from 1962-1965

Kadett 1965-1973

I was born in Montreal in 1973, but I visited Greece in 1974(baptized), in 1977 and in 1979.

I remember 1977 as a dream, but I do have vivid memories and in 1979 is crystal clear to me.

If anything, I could equate to 1970s Greece as 1950s or 1960s Europe...because THAT is how it was...

And how was that?

Well...it does not take a genius to figure out how poor Europe was AFTER the war!!!

7 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Then buy the Damned Lincoln already...it comes with heated seats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Im waiting for the Tesla Model 3 to make its debut!!!

Tesla is America's next generation of Great American Cars!

The NEXT CHAPTER!!!

Tesla is....um....Tesla!!!!

Just now, A Horse With No Name said:

Given the number of exclamation points I think the Canadian winter has frozen your finger or something.

It is still bloody cold in the St Lawrence Valley!!!

Its JUNE fer chrissakes!!!

58 minutes ago, Sal Collaziano said:

I'm not really comparing Lincoln to Buick at all. What I'm saying is people thought Buick was going to be America's version of Lexus but Lincoln took over that mission. Lexus isn't falling from grace because of it's styling. It's falling from grace because of its old drivetrains...

Does it really matter what I said about Lexus being ugly?

I said it was falling from grace AND it was ugly as shyte!!! NOT JUST because it was ugly as shyte!!!

I did not give reasons as to why it was falling from grace....I did not require the need to....besides...YOU KNEW as to why Lexus was falling from grace as YOU pointed it out....and I knew YOU knew hence why I did NOT NEED to mention any reasons!!!

And...let  me repeat...

Buick for the most part of its existence ALWAYS played second fiddle to Cadillac and consequently to Lincoln as Lincoln was Cadillac's rival!  Sure Buick had many many models in its historic past that were Cadillac and Lincoln equals, it really is NOT a compliment to compare the HISTORIC and AWESOMENESS of what the CONTINENTAL NAME PLATE MEANS TO THE LACROSSE NAME!!!

Unless of course we want to think about this Continental

to which yes, Ill agree...the Lacrosse's Predecessor (the LeSabre) would be THAT Continental's competitor!

But somehow, I dont think Lincoln was envisioning  Quiet Luxuriousness of the late 1990s...

IN OTHER WORDS:

The Lacrosse is more like a MKZ rival.

Buick really has no answer or competitor to the Continental.

If people think that the Continental  could be  cross shopped with the Lacrosse, I think its a WIN for Buick, NOT the OTHER WAY AROUND!!!

YOU trying to defend yourself really does not do much for your argument!!!

WHY IS IT THAT INTERNET FOLK NEVER WANT TO ADMIT THEY MADE A  MISTAKE!!!

Listen....I dont want to make Federal  case about this, but NOBODY said Buick was gonna be America's Lexus....

1. Buick is Buick....

Buick will ALWAYS be America's....um...BUICK!!!

2. What we, um, North Americans want is Buick to become...um....Buick again....

Not Lexus, not Acura, not even Oldsmobile....but BUICK....

3. What we North Americans want LINCOLN to become, is for Lincoln to be LINCOLN again!

Not Lexus, not Buick, but LINCOLN!!! 

Both brands in the modern world of them being themselves!

So....Please....stop trying to convince me that your article is accurate in its content!  Its false!

Its lazy! Its an attempt to re-write history! Its stereotypical fodder!

3 hours ago, Sal Collaziano said:

I really think Lincoln's Quiet Luxury is going over well. We thought Buick was going to be the "Domestic Lexus" but it's becoming clear that Lincoln is taking that title instead. Continental vs LaCrosse? Of course, no contest

I dont think you realize. This line aint really a compliment for Lincoln!

1. Lincoln is compared to a falling from  grace really freakin' fast ugly as shyte Lexus!

2. Lincoln is compared to a second tier premium brand like Buick! 

Buick for the most part of its existence ALWAYS played second fiddle to Cadillac and consequently to Lincoln as Lincoln was Cadillac's rival!  Sure Buick had many many models in its historic past that were Cadillac and Lincoln equals, it really is NOT a compliment to compare the HISTORIC and AWESOMENESS of what the CONTINENTAL NAME PLATE MEANS TO THE LACROSSE NAME!!!

Unless of course we want to think about this Continental

to which yes, Ill agree...the Lacrosse's Predecessor (the LeSabre) would be THAT Continental's competitor!

But somehow, I dont think Lincoln was envisioning  Quiet Luxuriousness of the late 1990s...

IN OTHER WORDS:

The Lacrosse is more like a MKZ rival.

Buick really has no answer or competitor to the Continental.

If people think that the Continental  could be  cross shopped with the Lacrosse, I think its a WIN for Buick, NOT the OTHER WAY AROUND!!!

Im really starting to enjoy the Dropkick Murphys.

Love this song!

3 hours ago, daves87rs said:

More Fleetwood Mac.....

OK...

You mentioned Fleetwood Mac and I had the need to listen to this obscure song from them from the 80s.

I miss the diversity of music that the 1980s offered!

I think its a handsome SUV for what my opinion is worth. (I HATE ALMOST ALL SUVs and I THINK ALMOST ALL SUVs are ugly)

This one is boring as its just a box with the front and back corners rounded off. Yes its conservative in styling making that a very stereotypical SUV design, but it is nicely done. The new  VW fascia and the back lights look 'Audi-esque' giving it a touch of high class elegance which in turn makes it handsome.

The boxy design does give it a stately and authoritative stance which works very well with a larger SUV which adds to the handsomeness!

I like it.

Compared to the new Buick Enclave, I think that both are relatively good looking and if I was buying an SUV in this league, Id have a hard decision picking out a favorite IN THE LOOKS department between the two!!!

4 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

...and I would agree with this also.

That it is...an Italian company building cars in Canada...I do not consider this a domestic car in its own right....

Well....NO!

It is an American car maker, building cars in Canada, just like the other 2 American car makers building cars in Canada for the sake of POLITICAL respect of doing business between the 2 countries.

The owners of this company are now Italian, Chryco. is still very much American as Auburn Hills tries its darnedest to stay that way!!!

I know  Casa and yourself means by it all and I dont take offense by it...

Well, yes I did take offense to it.

This part:

Quote

building cars in Canada...I do not consider this a domestic car

This is why I said this:

Quote

for the sake of POLITICAL respect of doing business between the 2 countries.

Trump has got me huffin and a puffin

SORRY!

On 2017-05-31 at 5:37 PM, cp-the-nerd said:

2015 S4, not even close (or fair comparison, haha). Those old Chargers are trash. It's like asking would you rather have a 2015 Focus ST or a Cobalt SS Turbo. There's so little reason to get the much older car. The only thing the Charger has is the intoxicating V8, and maybe the seats. S4 clobbers it in interior, performance, and handling.

Its the size that I was hesitant about!

I like them....BIG!  Big and...um (clears throat)...black!

Well, both cars are black!

Enough of those shenanigans, I chose the S4 for the very same reasons and disliked the Charger for those very same reasons while I also LOVE that  V8. But in the end, high gas prices (in Quebec) and it having a very cheap interior for those years did the Charger in for me!

@Frisky Dingo

@A Horse With No Name

I read your posts in the Ford RS thread and realized you guys need to have another  "A Would You Rather" thread in your lives!

This one was buried fast with the sales threads that came out!

ENJOY!

23 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Couldn't tell, definitely looked like it had an engine--wasn't sitting high in the front..strange--in a carport in a residential area in Central Phoenix...hadn't noticed it before, but off a street I used to drive every day. 

cool!

Your story has piqued my curiosity. Now Im wondering if it truly has its original engine, how intact it is and inwhat  condition?

I like these! I believe that the Colonnade cars (the1st years not the late 70s ones) are underrated and underappreciated in terms of power (yes they were choked from the smog regs but like in the Olds' case (and the Grand Am) , the big block was still there!) and in style!

The Monte Carlo  and the Grand Am looked very classy and sporty along with that Cutlass 442/Hurst!

Speaking of the Challenger...

In 392 Scatpack or Hellcat trims, these have lessened my void in my heart for an Olds 442 that is no longer!

I keep on saying that my next car will be a Tesla Model 3, but it might not be...it might very well be a Challenger before it goes away!

50 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Saw a dusty '73 Olds Hurst/Olds Cutlass (white, gold stripe, padded top), parked baking in the vile Arizona sun...looked like it hadn't moved in a long time. 

Id buy it and ship it back to Montreal!

I bet you though the 455 is looooong gone though!

Great for you guys!

Also, Im liking the colour. It makes it look rich.

(My wife's Fusion is better than your wife's Cruze)

1930 Boatail

1932

1936

And JUST before the war started...all with V16 engines...1939

All Mercedes ever had was that 500K Special...

Oh yeah....and this one

That 1939 Cadillac was MODERN compared to that Hitler car when the war started!!!

1957 Ford Fairlane!

You wanna talk about engineering @smk4565 ?

This is on a freakin' Ford bro!!!!

You wanna cling to that ONE model in 1954?

GTFO!!!

PS:

@smk4565  You really dont want me posting pics of what Mercedes Benz was REALLY producing for the masses IMMEDIATELY AFTER the war WELL INTO in the 1950s and what engine offerings were available...

Even Chevrolet with their stove bolt Inline 6 offerings had better MODERN style, features, build quality, power AND desire!

Ill leave you with a ROCK-N-ROLL song to REMIND you HOW THINGS WERE ABOUT TO GET State's side in 1949/1950 and beyond...

(not the original but the video is what I wanna show)

Listen to the lyrics...And its just an Oldsmobile...not even Cadillac!

That one model in 1954-1957....THAT IS WHAT YOU WANNA CLING TO?

REALLY?

1954-1957

Really?

At the height of milk shakes, roller skates, hot rods and rock-n-roll America...

GTFO!!!