oldshurst442

Final thought of the night. Sorry El K. About the 6th generation Camaro compared to the 5th generation... Besides the platform change and the 6th gen being more svelte, visually speaking...there is NOT a lot of difference. Maybe I need to change my prescription on my eye glasses, but that is how I feel. Sexy...yeah, the 1969 original to which the 5th and 6th gen is based on is sexy. These new machines, not so much. Again, to these aging eyes. A brand new Camaro purchase for me would be this: A virtual trip to Year One...for a Dynacorn body shell And everything else that Year One and other aftermarket shops sell new-old parts such as fenders and grilles and all other modern technology hardware for it. And the project would end up something like this: Maybe even buy two of those body shells and the second project could turn out like this: So yeah....those would be sexy...the originals...

^^^ Casa's speech just proves to me that the XLR was a half-baked idea... 1. Corvette under the skin or not...in which the Chevy was better than it or not... And I forgot....thanx Casa for the reminder....the C6 was debuting...maybe the XLR should have been a C6 instead of the C5 under the skin... Visions of Mercedes Benz old roadster and old engine being transferred to Chrysler for the Crossfire...and we all know how that turned out for Chryco and the Crossfire....so why would THIS situation be any different? 2. Engines being what they are...a supercharged Northstar SHOULD have been the standard engine in the XLR....and like Casa states, why shouldnt the 505 HP V8 been a part of the XLR? Because its a Chevy engine? That did not stopped Cadillac from using that particualr Chevy V8 engine later... 3. The interiors of GM at that point in time...well, we all know what it was...no need to go back there. Sure, maybe Cadillac had some nice materials then, people did not notice, because whether Bvlgari was over paid or design simply sucked, the interior of the XLR simply did not woooo and wow anybody. Like I said...half assed rather than half-baked. The C5's interior might have been cheap, it was better than the C4...but at least it looked better than the XLR....it looked more sportier AND more elegant... How the eff could that be? Well, it was... And this is where the ELR comes in. While the ELR is a striking vehicle to look at...it aint majestic. Many people have different views on poolside: American arrogance, self indulgence, and over confidence is seen both positively AND negatively by different people. The ELR WAS NOT the RIGHT car for that commercial. The ELR, while being a coupe, fits perfect for that stigma...its a GREEN oriented car. The looks itself, while beautiful, it aint IMPOSING enough. Its too small. Aston Martin cars are also small, but Aston Martins have a majestic look about them. They have that road presence as if they were a 5 ton SUV...The ELR does not possess that. Going back to the XLR...there was a sight lost in translation from the Evoq concept car. The front end with the head lights and the back end with the fins that were prominent and the somewhat widebody effect were scaled back considerably on the XLR... Although the XLR was gorgeous, it lost all the Cadillac aggressive presence that made the Evoq such a jaw dropper...and the name just suited it perfectly... What we got was a watered down Arts and Science car with a name like XLR...a dirt and grime cleaner rather than such a befitting name for a Cadillac roadster...Evoq! Cadillac hopefully learns who they are, and maybe they could give the world what they want from Cadillac. Poolside is EXACTLY what people want from Cadillac. Including Europeans... Especially Saudis and Americans!

I just googled....the CT6 will be making its Canadian debut... We had the Camaro as a Canadian debut. The Cadillac XT5 was also there..as a Canadian debut. So was the Buick Avenir and the Acura NSX all as Canadian debuts... Toronto could kiss my .

Yeah...440 horses for a C5 is definitely not under powered... I forgot about the V variant. I still wanna see a XLR down the road, but as a BMW Z5 competitor rather than a M-B SL roadster competitor. I still wanna see an ELR down the road. But a 100% all electric Karma Fisker type body Cadillac...4 doors and sexy. Or 2 doors and sexy. Like a new Aston Martin DB10. Not that the outgoing ELR aint sexy, but it aint long hood/short deck and majestic kind of sexy.

It was only 5 years difference between the two. Only 5 year difference? Why does it feel much sooner? I dont know whether its because I perceive Saturn to have been with us as long as Pontiac was...(yeah, I know Pontiac=1926 and Saturn=1988 or 1989 or 1990) because Saturn did feel like it was part of the GM family for a helluva long time because I kinda liked Saturn... Or because I feel like it was just yesterday literally that Toyota announced they wanted to start selling cars to Generation X & Y and they will create a new brand underneath the Toyota nameplate...because I never took to the Scion brand...because ugly as sin cars...

I get the XLR part being a Corvette...never a good idea to sell a car with less horsepower, crappier interior (Im not necessarily talking about quality either) and COSTLIER than a car that its based on, especially a holy grail of a car that it was actually based on. It still doesnt change the fact that the XLR was still half-baked... It could have been a much better effort. Bulgari....or I should right it as Bvlgari...did the clock and the dashboard gauges... Yikes!!! That is about as perfect of an adjective I could think of in describing Bvgalri's work on the XLR.

I appreciated the sports analogy Hyper. I feel the need to explain my point of view of why I dont feel bad about the ELR going away. The ELR...falls into the same trap as every other GM produced car that was killed off way before it should have, but its like GM had no choice to kill them off because the cars were released half baked... The Fiero comes to mind. The Chevy SSR. Cadillac's own XLR. Even the Allante and its sister ship the Buick Reatta. Ill take a different approach here than Hyper's approach about wasted time. (Casa thinks it was wasted time and Hyper does not believe it to be) And even Casa's approach about he not seeing it as a wasted opportunity but as wasted time. I think it was a COLOSSAL wastage of time and an even bigger wasted opportunity. True that it may not have cost Cadillac that much money....but technically it cost Cadillac time....and time IS money. Because although it may NOT have set Cadillac back, but it did NOT move Cadillac FORWARD either, and Cadillac NEEDS to MOVE FORWARD in LEAPS and BOUNDS whenever possible, then the ELR experiment DID cost them time and...yeah...opportunity. Remember....Cadillac STILL does not have that wow factor car to put asses in the seats of said car... POOLSIDE promised us THAT type of Cadillac car...to go with that type of arrogant lifestyle Americans like to talk about.... You know...the American dream.... NOT taking off for vacation the full month of August... Working hard to achieve whatever tinkles our fancy... You know....putting man on the moon because...well the U.S. is the GREATEST country on earth and phoque it! Americans left the keys to the GM car on the moon because Americans are the only ones to go back there! And what kind of car did Neal McDonough drive off in the sunset so to speak? Yeah...THE CADILLAC ELR....but that Cadillac gets nixed...because NOBODY bought the damned thing, because NOBODY saw it like they still see an Eldorado! Big waste of time and opportunity. This Poolside commercial just BEGGED for an incredible arrogant, badass Cadillac. It should have been the Escalade in the commercial because an El Miraj still does not exist! Hold on... a 'V' Series Cadillac would have been better. Its true what Casa says... JDN is searching for a sub-ATS car. A non-electric ELR with a 2.0T making 270-300 horsepower and a 'V' variant making north of 350 is that answer.... Yup...2- 3 years have gone by with the ELR plus another 3-5 years for that sub-ATS called the CT3 to arrive IS wasted time and wasted opportunity...because that sub-ATS/CT3 was needed YESTERDAY....and THAT car could have ALSO fit nicely in the poolside commercial...All 'V' variant Cadillacs actually. If the ELR is FWD only, maybe they could have found a way to make it AWD to distinguish it from the Chevy/Buick/Opel Delta II platform. And THAT is why I dont feel bad for the ELR... Because the true believers at Cadillac were not in charge at that point in time when the ELR was given the green light. The ELR, like I mentioned before...and so has Hyper, is just another half-baked, poorly marketed GM vehicle that GM has a history of doing...

And the path currently taken by Toyota continues to mimic General Motors of old. At least Toyota did not wait too long to pull the plug on Scion, unlike GM with Saturn.

Ah yes....Poolside, and no follow up to that. Double and triple yes to the sub-ATS comment Casa. Maybe Cadillac could do a follow up to Poolside by sending off the ELR with the song Wasted days and Wasted Nights! Im on my tablette so you folk are spared any youtube links I was about to post!

Hey assface! Yeah, YOU! Stop cutting your nose to spite your face! I just thought that saying would compliment "assface" nicely. Rest well Mr. DFELT!

I, for one, aint sad to see it go. Good riddance is what I say. Get lost! Scram! I, however, cant wait to see what the CT6 'e' version has to offer. And maybe from there, Cadillac could pick up the electric pieces and start fresh for an EV halo car sometime in the future. There are a couple of these roaming the streets near my home and restaurant, and I must admit, its striking to see in real life. Nice car it is, bad pricing and maybe even a tad bad execution. Oh well. Chalk it up to yet another modern Cadillac failure and quickly move on. There is no need to dwell on it as some great products are on the way. Just to add to more drama to my post, I wanna take the time to add, that although I like the ELR, I dont have any passion for it. I prefer the Allante over this. Strange but true!

Im saddened by this news about cancer. Beat the cancer, man. Beat it! Im also happy by this news that you have already took actions to defeat this cancer! Heal my friend. Rest and come back soon! I wish you well.

Hey Cletus http://www.cheersandgears.com/topic/85617-beautiful-cars-appreciation-thread/page-2 post #36 shows BLU's appreciation of the colonnade body style while post #37 shows my appreciation of the colonnade body style. Also, this is an attempt by me to introduce you to this thread so maybe you could post pics of what cars you deem beautiful so we could all appreciate them with you.

Yup. And why I mentioned commoditization in this thread? Because THAT is what is diluting the definitions of what luxury is all about. Luxury is being able to afford multiple cars. But that is more in tune to high standard of living in a given country... LUXURY, the real meaning of it...is something lavish, opulence, grandeur...something unattainable by the average joe. and because in some circles of our society, where real passion for the automobile is concerned is dwindling, we have people with some money commoditizing even the very definition of luxury. And in reality, it aint even relegated to just the automobile, its even creeping up in clothes, watches...everything...(I should mention marketing with commoditizing together) Michael Korrs watches are everywhere in my neck of the woods....selling for 400-500 dollars CDN a pop... WHAT THE PHOQUE DOES MICHAEL KORRS KNOW ABOUT WATCHES AND WATCH MAKING???!!! Anyway...I hope you guys understand my rant about why I dont like this idea of a Mercedes Benz PICK-UP truck borrowed by a Nissan platform as a REAL M-B product or as a luxury one at that! Id rather M-B make their own platform....I KNOW they are more than capable... Its just cheaper to do it this way...you know...COMMODITIZATION of the automobile...

Yup. Just, yup! Especially the part where Balthy talks about 'The Best or Nothing' cliché. I know how "luxury" is perceived by some folk, hence the dude in Mr. Cubical's neck of the woods who bought a Sprinter and added AMG badges on it...the same type of dudes that want Escalade conversions for their Chevy/GMC Express Vans... A badge simply does not translate to luxury. A FABRICATED image also does not translate into luxury... Somehow, the Mercedes marketing department did actually that and succeeded. They made this vehicle into a luxury car. Which is fine...yet let us not forget that M-B tested the waters of this SUV in less than luxurious situations...whoring themselves to product placement...but it worked....I somehow dont connect dirt and mud with luxury, but hey...silly me...what am I thinking? Its the modern take on luxury. Its funny, that is why I laugh at human stupidity for badge snobbishness...because the way we view luxury, ANYTHING can be luxury then...just say it in your commercials and BINGO...instant luxury. If Ancient Greeks felt this way, King Midas would have saved himself a lot of grief by wishing anything he touches to turn to gold... meaning, he would be content to just to have copper, because copper shines like gold, and many things in Ancient Greece was made of copper. Going back to what Balthy said: The Best or Nothing. Even in work horse European duties....is the Nissan truck really the best or nothing? Want more laughter? Chevy also has partnered with Nissan for a workhorse truck... Does this mean that Mercedes is on the same level as Chevy or as Cadillac? Maybe both, because Cadillac too, relies on a Chevy for a luxury vehicle... But....there lies the joke....the Chevy platform for a pick-up truck and SUV compared to the Nissan platform for a pick-up truck that M-B will use...well, its true for Chevrolet the cliché The Best or Nothing.... I fear what this world is turning into. I also fear about the commoditization of the automobile.

There are several movie references I could make here with endless amounts of pics, GIFs and youtube clips. PICS & GIFS & YOUTUBE CLIPS...OH MY! You see, there goes another one... I wont post any of them though, as maybe too much of a (good thing?) maybe too much? Ill just make one quote though: What people believe prevails over the truth. SOPHOCLES.

I think its because I have never equated pick-up trucks, SUVs, CUVs as status symbols. Even the Escalade. I have always view these vehicles as work vehicles, tools. Appliances for hard work. Blue collar stuff. The off-roading 4x4s as enthusiast toys. Sure...those can be status symbols, but not of the snobby kind. Because mud is the farthest to aristocracy in my mind. To each his own. I will continue to laugh at what this world and this society has become.

I guess its how one wants to view what this world is becoming.

That is what I was thinking.... I do find it a great idea for the work truck thing for Europe. Actually, I might even say its about bloody time! M-B produces some pretty mighty, hefty work horses for Europe and 3rd world countries. A European market knows how rugged those commercial trucks are. And deep rooted in European history going far back before WW2...so a light to medium pick-up truck to claim market share form Toyota Hilux, Mazda B2000, Nissan Navarro (which ironically underpins this new thing) and VW Amarok is a smart move... But...to offer this in North America would be quite silly and embarrassing in any which form. Hypocritical you are calling me because its OK for GM and GMC and Cadillac and Lincoln? Well...just like M-B has a deep rooted history for work and military trucks in Europe, as does GM with Chevy and GMC along with Ford in North America. Also...Lincoln and Cadillac no longer offer pick-up trucks, the Caddy EXT/Avalanche was sold as a SUV but one could argue it was a pick-up truck more than it was a SUV... Ford and GMC/Chevy has an image of blue collar people...selling a Denali to these people is akin to what M-B is in Europe...is contradictory to M-B's image in North America is what Im saying.

Sprinter vans aside, and other commercial stuff that Mercedes produces, is this pick-up truck a competitor to the Chevy Colorado work truck or is it a GMC Sierra Denali/Cadillac Escalade EXT type vehicle? Because as a commercial medium duty truck, it makes sense for Mercedes to do this, especially using a Nissan, but if this is to impress the blue bloods, it is asinine, especially using a Nissan platform. If they want to go the Lincoln Blackwood route, maybe a pure bespoke M-B chassis would be better suited... Whatever I says, not that Id be impressed with it either way. I am not a truck guy, I dont really care. But I got to laugh at the ridiculous rate Mercedes Benz wants to whore itself unto every possible real or imagined niche there is. Yes Ms. Temple, it is quite a silly and embarrassing idea, isn't it ???!!!

And CCAP...like I was sayin' Im surprised refs dont get hit more often... Lucic, former Bruin now LA King, punches ref accidentally in the mouth trying to punch another player... This happened yesterday. Lucic's firstgame back from a suspension no less...

You are not the only one to think this way CCAP. This was a post from me a while back concerning the Cascada. http://www.cheersandgears.com/topic/85635-buick-news-2016-buick-cascada-priced-at-33990/?hl=%2Bbuick+%2Bcascada "Sharp little car...very European in flavour. Why is it that Im thinking that this car is 20 years too late? Why is it that Im thinking that this car would have made an excellent Saturn...or even a nice early 2000s Oldsmobile but why is it that dont I like it has a 2016 Buick? When I heard news of this last year, I was happy for Buick, but fast forward a year later with viewing it with Buick clothes on instead of Opel clothes, and Im in the least bit interested and kinda disappointed in it... Maybe the Avenir is giving me thoughts of grandeur for Buick and maybe I need to settle down my expectations of Buick... Or maybe...Buick should start getting with the program a little bit faster with products that make us salivate...this wont make anybody salivate...even the aforementioned ladies between the ages of 40-50. Because even those ladies...they probably salivate thinking about driving around in Bimmers..." I even got a thumbs up on that post....so somebody approved what I said! That would be 2 for the price of 1 right there in 1 post!

Was I the only one that thought the Buick Avista with Opel badging would be the Opel GT? Guess I was wrong, huh? Do I like this thing? I dont know. Looks like a Hot Wheels toy. Part of me enjoys the youthful exuberance of if it. Part of me just says, man that thing looks dinky. Ill hold on to my opinion a little longer as I think I have a stick up my butt currently that prevents me from enjoying this car presently.

At the Montreal show, there was a lone GT350R. White with blue stripes. NOBODY was around it! I dont think anybody realized what it was. I think people just thought it was just a regular Mustang. I mean, sure it was locked and nobody could get in it, and no hoopla advertisements announcing it, but the regular Mustang and the Convertible had a considerable flock gathered around them... The GT350 was by itself far from the other Mustangs, which should have signaled the people in the know thsat something is up with this machine...but no. I was the only guy drooling over it for at least 10 minutes before another gear head asked me if it was indeed the GT350. After I confirmed to him that it was, he nodded, took a brief look at it..and he left, just like that, he left... What is even crazier, that cross check that Wideman gave the linesman. Pretty intense. Im amazed that refs dont get hit accidentally more often actually.

@ DFELT Thanx a million! Looks like I aint that crazy after all. Like BLU said...maybe Im scary, but not crazy! On the other hand, there is that.