oldshurst442

Sorry, I thought it was the S Class. I forgot that M-B wants to do LCDs across the line-up...still doesnt change the fact that the speedometer cluster looks like something I viewed as a young adult on a video game. And the E-Class is a land yacht itself as of lately... Problem is SMK...I dont like cars to park themselves...I like to park the bloody car myself... I learned to parallel park on a 1988 Chevy Fullsized van...a work van, no windows on the side panels, just 2 square windows on the back doors waaaaay in the back... I even learned to park that thing without back up sensors telling me how close I am to the vehicle in the back...because there was no such thing back in '88. SMK...although the S Class looks awesome for 2015, I dont lust for one. The E-Class looks like crap...the ONLY E Class I liked was the W211 2002-2009 E Class. From the premium to luxury cars in 2015? Maybe an AMG CLS 63, a M6 Grand Coupe, a CT6 would tickle my fancy. A Tesla Model S...and that is about it... Id rather resto-mod/pro tour a classic American car from the 1950s/1960s/early 1970s and put modern tech and luxury into them and spend that 100 000 thousand rather then buy something modern. Other than those 4 cars I mentioned...

When we were lookin' to get the wife a car and before we settled on the Fusion, we looked at the Verano and the Encore... My wife and I were amazed how much room there is in the Encore, and how much upscale it feels. Far more upscale than the Fusion and the Terrain. But it aint fair to criticize the Terrain as its an older vehicle. She just did not like the looks of the Encore. She preferred the Fusion. She liked the Verano, but since we kinda gave away the Mazda 3 to her brother, she felt that she wanted a bigger car than what she had before. The interior space both back and front of the Verano mimicked our 2009 Mazda 3...so we went with the bigger Fusion. If it werent for the exterior looks of the Encore, I think she might have chosen the Encore as she was more comfortable with the interior of the Encore rather than the Fusion's. I however think the Encore looks so much like a premium vehicle. I think the blue ring on the headlight bezels along with the waterfall grill give it that classic Buick luxury look. I like the Encore, a lot. But between the Fusion and the Encore, I do prefer the Fusion myself. Not a fair thing though for the Encore, I dont do SUVs, even less for small CUVs.

You know what makes me laugh... The Conti's interior looks like it mated with that S-Class and they begat this: A Mondeo Vignale... I do like the diamond look on the S-Class, its just toooooo busy with the vertical lines of the wood grain...

Is it better than this one? Actually....I dont like that interior... What I dont like about it: 1. Holy liquid crystals Batman...that speedometer looks like a Playstation Gran Turismo video game cluster...its effin cheesy if you ask me... And yes...Ive seen one live...it looks worse up close and personal... 2. too many lines and diamonds in the design in the wood grain and the seat leather making it look busy rather than elegant... It makes me dizzy just looking at it...There was a link about how M-B is going on with this....and probably many people will adore this...I for one cant stand it... Im sure the quality of the materials are great...and the colour combo is chosen by the customer...so Im leaving that colour combo alone...but it aint my cup of tea that choice of brown...I dont have a problem with that brown really, but for me, that white dont go with that brown...and then there is that black...too many colours that dont blend well...but like I said...this is more of a customization thing... It really is not fair to compare the S Class interior with the Continental interior...because the S Class is that much of a bigger car, wider... The Continental's interior looks cramped as its based on a mid-sized car that will be enlarged to what will barely make it to full size , from the Fusion platform... The S-Class really is of Land Yacht proportions making that "sleek" interior look vast...which makes a huuuuuge difference in perception of luxury.... The Conti's interior and the Lacrosse's interior are fine for what price range they are in...Im not in awe of them, but Im not a hater of them either.

I agree with you SMK for M-B being able to charge more because of image. The one Cadillac where I think beats M-B in image in an equivalent price and product area is the Escalade. One thought to ponder is if Cadillac ever chooses to price a future Cadillac Escalade V in M-B territory, in $120 000 territory, how well would people react to that? Because in the lower trims, in the $70 000 - $90 000 price range...the Escalade has the GL beat in image and prestige. BUT....M-B DOES offer a trim above that....so... And...the GL @ $120 000 is quite successful...

Maybe the could also hire Gordon Gekko while they're at it...

Hey CCAP... I think this is what it is...but with number 80... Im KNOW its the NATO Tigers...its the number that Im not sure of...

It wasnt a sad attempt at luxury though... Cadillac in 2015 STILL does not have a car worthy of this Phaeton...as the CT6 is not available yet... It really is embarrassing that it took Cadillac THIS long to get a car going in this league...a DECADE... HA! MORE THAN A DECADE!!!! Sorry if you dont agree, but the Phaeton was an engineering marvel. It just wore the wrong badge on the hood.

Wanted to give a shout out to GENERAL DYNAMICS for placing 13th in that Fortune Blue Ribbon thing they got going on... http://fortune.com/2015/12/15/blue-ribbon-2015/ GOOD ON YOU GENERAL DYNAMICS!!! The original developers of the F-16 Fighting Falcon, my absolute fave Fighter Jet.

Manufacturers that sell to rental fleets...why do some folk think its bad? Its bad only when your customer base is srinking because you build crap cars and you dump the rest of your unsold crap to rental fleets to bolster up sales... However, its good business when actual customers buy your cars because they actually want to own them and so you sell some of your less than stellar performing cars to rental fleets...maybe the cars that arent selling is because that generation is coming to end...whatever, its good business to sell...to whomever that wants to buy your cars... In other words...selling to fleets is just good business... If your business model sucks or if your products suck and your over all compnay sucks for variuos reasons...its not because you sell your cars to fleets heavily that selling to fleets is bad...your company sucks regardless where and to whom you sell to... What I find horrible in all of this where Hyundai/ Kia and Nissan is picking up the slack and mainly Asian brands...its because we are in AMERICA...and Hertz, Avis, Thrifty, Enterprize, they are American...and GOD DAMN IT...why is it that AMERICANS DONT BUY AMERICAN ANYMORE???!!! I get it...Chrysler, Ford and GM have used that business model trait for soooooo long in the past when they produced junk and dumped all their so called bread and butter cars to rental agencies just to say that they compete with the Asian cars that it has become synonymous to say that rental car fleets equates to struggling car sales because said cars are junk... But in Hyundai's case, I doubt that is the case in 2015...its a smart move by them to gain more exposure when people rent their cars from Thrify and its even more metal they move added to they sales they already make...I highly doubt Hyundai/Kia is relying on rental fleet sales to make the house payments if you know what I mean... I get it that Ford and GM and Chrysler dont ant to re-visit that road again...Im just stating that a car manufacturer that wants to have an additional income source, selling cars to rental fleets is not a bad move... About buying American and American that dont... Sure...the D3 built junk in the 1980s and 1990s....problem is...so did the Germans and the Japanese during that same time frame... The only thing Ill let up on is that some Japanese cars WERE built GREAT in the 1980s and 1990s...the Accord, the Camry, the Civic and Corolla...maybe a Nissan and a Mazda...but the rest were WORSE junk than the American cars!!! And...not that an Accord or Camry did not have any issues either... SO I REPEAT...WHY ARENT AMERICANS MORE PROUD OF THEIR AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY LIKE EUROPEANS ARE???!!! That will forever perplex me...

I analyzed the hood area some more... Boy did they cheapen out the design... I LOOOOVE the way that airflow valley is designed in my Fusion and on the Conti Concept...which should translate well on the spy shot car...but...on the spy shot car, FoMoCo took a 2013 design from a Ford Fusion instead of doing it the Lincoln way as its on the concept... The air flow aerodynamics on the Concept really starts on the bumper on top of that LED strip light and is part of the fender which envelops the whole headlight system and is directed to the back below the side windows on to the back end of the car...as opposed to the Fusion and the spy shot car where the aerodynamic airflow starts from the headlights...BIG DETAIL that is missing... THAT is the difference between elegance for luxury name plate and mainstream for plebeian average Joe family haulin duties .. And the lip on top of the grill...there is NO LIP that bulges roundly and then the hood starts leaving a gap between the hood and the front bumper clip...it really is an elegant hood on the Concept that is surrounded by sheet metal that seals itself shut with tight tolerances where the hood line follows through with the airflow line instead of it being like a Ford Fusion hood where the whole top rises and lowers... Cadillac does it this way...the Concept Conti follows that form...but not the spy shot car...another luxury elegant feature that has been cheapened out by FoMoCo for Lincoln... To boot, the CTS's aerodynamic air flow are exactly like how the Concept Conti is...it starts form the bumper, over the whole headlight system and on to the back and the lines are carried through from the bottom of the side windpws...and on top of the grill, that lip, does not look like a cheap feature as you would find on a more utilitarian vehicle... In 2015, where gadgets and leather is found on 20 000 dollar cars, it really is the little details that represent luxury... I hope Lincoln people figure this out soon...

I keep on saying this...its a big bloody shame when an average Joe, run of the mill, family hauler, looks the part of an expensive VIP sedan from an average Joe brand than all of the corporate brother's luxury brand's models'...including the so called game changer new vehicle from that luxury brand...

I was looking at the spy shots, and I too could not put my finger on it why I thought the silhouette of the car looks dated. Then when I read Drew's and CCAP's observations it became apparent to me why I think the silhouette looks dated...because I share their sentiments... I like the grill, the headlights, the taillights. But that silhouette, I cant get passed that dated look... I even analyzed the hood area...and THAT too, looks dated...Ive seen it before...and I see it daily me thinks... Let me explain with that visual help... 1. On top of the headlights of both Fusion and Conti... Both have similar air flow qualities...that are designed to flow the width of the headlights, on top of the hood along the side of the body below side windows....and on the hood itself, it bulges to make that valley so the air could flow... To boot, the Conti's, hood looks bland compared to the Fusion's, same air flow valley bulges for both, but the Conti stops having any other hood definitions, at least the Fusion has more elegant creases on the hood to make it interesting... 2. On top of the grill, both cars have a similar lip before the hood starts, same rounded bulge... 3. maybe to side mirrors of the Conti will change...but crikey...same bloody design in the spy shot car!!! Those 3 points would be other reasons why I think the Conti looks dated...it resembles my wife's 2013 Fusion... I sooooooo want to like this car....I soooooo want Lincoln to have success with this car...*SIGH*....FoMoCo really is making it hard for Lincoln to succeed...and Mullaly is looong gone...so what gives???!!!

Chocolate Milk for me... I know I said cognac coffee before....that was me trying to be cool... I wake up in the morning already ready to face the world... Yup...Im chirpy and happy...when I wake up... and the only fuel I need is a nice cold glass of chocolate milk! With one caveat... 3.25% and Nestlé Quick!

Yeah...I think that is more logical than want I said earlier. And you are definitely right about an Omega 'Slade in 2021/2022...CAFE. Although I dont agree with you with Lincoln. I believe the 'Gator still has mojo left in her, its up to FoMoCo and Lincoln to use their marketing genius to allow that mojo to come out when an all new 'Gator finally arrives. @ Drew Thanx for that insight as I too, forget that GM actually refreshes their vehicles often enough...

Is that a good thing? 8 or 9 years is a long time considering Rolls and Bentley will offer a real fullsize, (yeah I know...not in the same league price wise, but for now, the uber rich still buy 'Slades, Cadillac may not have to lose to Rolls or Bentley regardless if they have the cash to buy a Rolls or Bentley, retaining the cool factor by being seen in the 'Slade a should continue to be a priority for Cadillac) considering that Lexus might actually offer a brand new one, and Lincoln too, and Lincoln's 'Gator will have aluminum panels and there is still name recognition in the Navigator...8-9 years away for a new 'Slade seems to me like a Lincoln maneuver that left the 'Gator rot on the vine...

I most likely see this as the preamble to moving the Escalade off a body-on-frame platform and not sharing it with the others. I'd be all for a move to Omega for the Escalde to make it unibody and lighter. The Mercedes GL is not that mass efficient, but it still about 300 lbs less than an Escalade V8 to V8. The GLS should drop a couple hundred pounds on the next generation since all other Mercedes in the past few years have. Escalade will need less weight and or more power to keep pace. The rest of the segment is hopeless though, has Lexus put a new engine in the LX since like 06? The Navigator's body panels look like they are from an 07 Expedition. It is a 2 horse race at this point. I also would want the Slade to to move to Omega...but not now...there is no reason for it now... Maybe ever. The Escalade was ALWAYS a badge engineered SUV from BOF brothers Chevy and GMC... The 1st generation was as blatant a badge job as GM has ever done, and that did not stop the Escalade in being a success...unlike a certain J-Body platformed car...and for one year, it created a frenzy about the brand Cadillac...'twas not the Caddy that Zigs nor the Arts and Science 1st gen CTS...;twas really the 1st gen 'Slade...a badge job... The 2nd generation was also a blatant badge job...albeit less apparent, but not by much...and that too, did not stop the success...at a time when BMW and Mercedes-Benz just put the bitch slap on American Luxury name plates... The 3rd generation was even less a badge job...but very BOF...as Cadillac and GM did not hide the fact that this Escalade IS a GMT 900 underneath...and at about this time, it was very apparent to GM, to M-B, to BMW, to Land Rover, to Porsche, to Rolls Royce, to Bentley and just about everybody else, that the Escalade is King in the SUV world, prompting Rolls Royce and Bentley to get jealous and wanting a piece of that Escalade pie...let us not forget that the Escalade remains BOF... The 4rth generation is when the Escalade FINALLY approached the REAL LUXURY claim its name plate stands for...and when the competition finally appears from Rolls and Bentley..let us not forget hpw heavy these beasts will be...as heavy or heavier than the Escalade....let us not forger that the 'Slade also comes in ESV trim...and what does all that mean? It means that weight might not be a real concern to the buyers of these beasts... And until weight becomes of concern with the customer base...then Cadillac should really not concern themselves with Omega based SUVs... Cadillac should continue to make the 'Slade a Chevy based SUV...because THAT is one of its selling points...as soon as THAT becomes a liability, only THEN should Cadillac change the 'Slade... The only thing Cadillac should concern themsleves with the 'Slade, is to continue to refine that interior, to make that interior truly top tier one luxury...

Is it normal to go under all those re-evaluations as FCA seems to do lately... I mean...I get the part where a manufacturer is pro-active in dealing with the ever changing automotive scene and reacts to the fast changes that the industry seems to do, but in my opinion, FCA seems to be re-evaluating every 6 months... Just engineer a bloody product and send it out already for crikey's sake... Chrysler needs a LX platform replacement as of yesterday. Ditto Dodge. Chrysler needs that 100 sedan as of yesrterday. Chrysler ALSO needs a 100 based CUV as of yesterday...not either or... Alpha Romeo needs that RWD sedan that Sergio is showing us...as of yesterday... Alpha Romeo needs luxury SUVs and CUVs and 4 door coupes and 2 door coupes as of yesterday... Fiat...needs more cars than that 500 vehicle and the spin off of it as of.....yesterday... You people dont know how much I HATE this expression..."I need this yesterday" And I NEVER thought Id EVER use it...however...in this case...I deem it to be very very appropriate.

Chevy will most definitely squawk...the good thing is that Cadillac is based in NYC now and far away from Chevy to hinder Cadillac's uniqueness that should be in the GM umbrella.

The part I underlined in your post... THAT would be the mistake...I get it.

Gull Wing Doors - how many months/years of delay due to this single feature? Not allowing early adopters of the lower end models access to the supercharger network without an additional $10k fee for a software update. Picking fights with state legislatures and regulators instead of trying to work with them. Over promising on the battery swap idea and then under delivering (one battery swap location, never open) Some of the early model product mix wasn't very good, the low end models were price leaders that no one wanted to buy (obviously why they were canceled) Spending money to develop the zombie mode chemical warfare resistance stuff.... that was money poorly spent. Spending money developing ludicrous speed rather than greater range. - Gull wing doors Yes...gimmick. A needless gimmick that should have not been engineered in the first place so the Model X could have been sold already...money spent needlessly and money not being made. - Not Allowing Early Adopters of lower end to access superchargers without that 10 000 dollar fee... Maybe Im naive to this automotive business, but with this, Im not in agreement....as a restaurant owner, I also understand how much things cost...overhead and engineering...maybe he felt the need to NOT give away this software as to help with the cost of the infrastructure as its Tesla that is building this infrasture all on their own...that money has to be financed somehow...and Elon found a way to finance some of it some way... - Picking fights with anybody is never a good thing...especially when you need law makers on your side...maybe the other CEOs should have picked a more diplomatic figure for those missions...I agree. I wasnt aware of that... - The battery swap idea.... OH YEAH....THAT rings a bell...yeah...I remember that...I equated that idea with BBQ propane tanks...I ALWAYS avoided propane fill up stations where this was a policy...for obvious reasons... I guess he was desperate for solutions at that point in time when he dreamt up this one. - Product mix in the earlier years... Ill chalk that up to rookie mistakes in the car building world... If he chose NOT to listen to more experienced people...then yes douche....however, if no one at Tesla had ANY experience in this field...you cant really pin that on him as such - Zombie chemical war fare??? Sounds stupid...yes...a colossal waste of money...even if zombie really means VIP person being chauffered in a Tesla and a Tesla has anti-terrorist capabilities...he should have left that to companies that actually build fortified S Classes for people of importance and such... - Ludicrous speed.instead of range... Yes and no... The Model S is an EV,,,so range should be its priority...yet a Model S is also a status symbol...a very fast status symbol...and electric motors have the ability to achieve great speed because of instantaneos power and torque....he wanted to show case that as well...cant fault him for that angle... I see your point and everyone else's... But like you said...I also dont wish for failure for Tesla...because the Model S does not seemed as a compromised vehicle... However...unlike Hyper with me...I dont have Hyper on my ignore list...I read his posts...I learn from his posts...and I could see how the Model X could be a compromised vehicle... (Hyper...dont let that get to your head...you are a smart guy...however...YOU think you are ALWAYS right and DONT want to learn from ANYBODY...THAT gets my goat...)

OK...now Im curious. What were those bad decisions? I truly am not aware...and Id like to know. And does that mean the Model S could have been an even better product than it already is?

I would acknowledge that fact had I known more about Elon and what he has actually said and done in regards to the automotive industry for him to be called a douche...however...I dont really care for that...I equate that to National Enquirer BS... I look at the product itself and judge the product...I dont care for the rest of the stuff, its just noise.

Energy drinks on principle, dont agree with me. Id rather the original energy drink: coffee laced with cognac/brandy.