oldshurst442

The States... The States have also rebuilt their automotive companies too...M-B, BMW, VW...OK...I think VW was the Brits... The Japanese car companies too...

I agree with what you said Drew 100000000000%. Europe is fantastic when it comes to trains, buses and metro systems... They had no choice...after WW2, roads were destroyed....gasoline was uber expensive...still is... The bestand cheapest way for Europe to get the people back on the roads to work was through a very elaborate public transit system... Donkeys with Donkey trails and itty bitty cars was how they got going after the war and how they advanced their cities was with public transit... Here in North America....with the visions of grandeur that soldiers saw with the autobahn...which coincided with GM's vision of the future for the automobile in their Motorama exhibits , the car was our form of freedom and excess luxury....and THAT ideology is gonna be nearly impossible to reverse...so much so...that some of us are soooooo wound up in our gasoline powered cars, that we wont even accept electric cars...so how in the world are we gonna accept mass public transit? Its sad really!

Thanx for the info....I really did not feel like reading the article because: 1. The way I read that quote, it made me question my sanity...maybe I got seduced and sedated by lovely females and when I awoke, Quebec was independent. 2. Our Premier, Mr. Couillard did make some noise at this conference...some UNWANTED noise that some in his office and other opposing politicians dont agree with....but the Montreal Gazette says he wants to do away with NATURAL GAS by 2050, nothing about GASOLINE.... http://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/analysis-couillard-shows-how-green-he-is-at-climate-conference-back-home-people-wonder-is-it-practical which makes no sense at all as Quebec also owns a natural gas company that supplies Quebecois with natural gas....Gaz Metropolitain... And others also point out how quite the task that would be to achieve this....therefore, even if he also agreed to no gasoline powered vehicles by 2050...I doubt this will ever come to fruition... However....googling this story for further info...I came across an article that Toyota wants to reduce by 90% of 2010 sales of gasoline powered cars by 2050...interesting... http://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/energy/article/Toyota-aims-to-nearly-eliminate-gasoline-cars-by-6571406.php

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Exactly, not just bagpipes....but bagpipes that shoot flames!

I kinda see the AMG coupe with no gullwings as an attempt to NOT confuse that car with the M-B's own SLS...and to NOT be seen as trying too hard to compete with Porsche in copying the shock and awe approach of Lambo...(sincere thought process) Yes its complex...maybe Tesla wants to be seen with this as an engineering feat that they have mastered... OK OK...my argument is falling apart here...not that Im trying to win it or anything...just shooting the shyte with you...(not so snicere thought process...like I said...just shooting the shyte)

I love them bagpipes!!! I prefer the guitar, electric guitar...and a bouzouki...but the bagpipes....its such a cool instrument!

We talked about how a friend of a friend of a friend saw a guy play "Thunderstruck" by AC/DC on bagpipes that shot flames out of them and we simply used our imaginations run wild. I must admit...its "funner" just to 'google' and see it for myself though... AND ITS 1-1!!! GOOD!!! But to tell you the truth...Id rather see a few HABS noses being bloodied rather than just a 1-1 tie! HOWEVER...the Bruins just scored again!!!....OK OK....Ill take the 2-1 lead!!!

Oh...I know GM wants Tesla's customers...(and eveybody else for that matter, like you said), but GM is also lobbying...on the same issues as Tesla is lobbying...but on the other side of the issue as what Tesla is lobbying... That kind of game is dirty...its business, I understand....its still dirty. I heard a rumor that Ford, Chryco and GM had something to do with Tucker's demise....is GM trying to repeat history? Losing focus Tesla is? I wasnt aware of that....if gullwing doors on the Model X is one of these lack of focus dilemmas, it may not be so bad...because Tesla also has acknowledged a need in the market place for electric SUVs...hence the Model X to begin with....OK....gullwing doors may be a gimmick....everybody sells cars on gimmicks... Mercedes Benz has LCD screens all over the place now and calls that luxury. BMW is toying with Nintendo Wii ideologies with hand gestures in the air to change a radio station instead of just using a damned knob... Ford has ecoboost... I may not have anything on GM as gimmicky as I type this as Im drawing a blank for GM, which may be a good thing for GM if GM is producing and selling cars without the use of gimmicks, but it seems to me, like Delorenzo always rants about....it really should be about the product... Therefore...if GM truly is producing cars without gimmicks, then they will not have a problem selling cars in the near future and GM will soon have mojo of their own. So....there is no need for GM to be wanting Tesla's customers, in due time, they will have customers breaking down the doors for their products... About those gullwing doors...why such a fuss over them? And in my opinion, it has worked as many people are talking about them, for or against... Its not as if this hasnt been done before...M-B, DMC, and to a certain degree (scissor doors)...Lambo. Nothing new or shocking. Have those kinds of doors failed in the market place? Maybe for DMC...certainly not for M-B. Remember, some sort of blingy gimmick is necessary...M-B is going all LCD screens for their interiors...its funny how we havent made pages and pages of denouncing M-Bs funny ideas...and in my honest opinion, Tesla has as much hoonage as M-B does.

I dont mind watching a HABS team dominate a Bruins team in hockey plays...what I do mind though, is when all these changes they made to the game as of late to eliminate aggressiveness, a Bruins/Habs rivalry becomes boring when the Bruins actually try to play hockey to try to win knowing that they might not have the skills to win...yes....yes...a bit of goonery to spice up the rivalry and intensity to "send a message" for the next game is what I wished would happen...but what we have here....is actual hockey.... What is that all about???!!! I know the Bruins will lose tonight, even though its only 1-0 for the Habs heading into the 3rd...I WANT TO SEE A REAL HOCKEY GAME BREAK OUT!!!

Problem is though....the customers that want a Tesla, Model X included, these guys, they want nothing that GM offers...including Cadillac V Series cars and Corvettes and 'Slades...even the new CT6...hybrid Meaning...GM may want Tesla's customers, Tesla's potential customers dont want GM... PS: The Model X most certainly is hella weird, but...its a TESLA...and THAT is what counts... Tesla has made itslef a name...GM wishes it had that name and that mojo me thinks...

Im sorry guys...Im still on this Star Wars thing... And yes Suave...I heard Darth's voice when I read your post... Its very hard for me to get off of it...until I see Episode 7 I guess... Continue on with this analysis paper...and I vote Ye...so, stop being lazy...use the force if you have to.

Well....I got but one small link...Road and Track online. http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/news/a27567/two-thirds-of-early-tesla-model-s/ It really does not say much....just a couple of sentences that counter EL K's thought process, albeit with no further proof of why they feel this way...but it is a counter thought process... From the link: Keep in mind that the link is addressing the first early production Model S'... And Im sure the writers that wrote this took into consideration the amount of money it will take to repair these issues, and how Tesla does not hold anything back with their customers and Tesla actually gives them loaners...

you know...I just had a nasty though DFELT... A long long time ago in a galaxy far far away....(because Im still on a Star Wars kick) Well, more accurate than that, not tooo long ago, people broke into other people's cars to steal GO PRO cameras or Garwin GPS sytstems or phones that were laying around, those screens, dont they just invite the uninvited to break your windows to pry off and steal those floating screens?

When in Hell did Québec become a country? There was only two referendums, in 1981 and in 1996, and both times the answer was NO!!! Alls I know...Pauline Marois better not read that article from Car and Driver, délusions of grandeur have been curtailed, we dont want any false hopes...I mean, just because the Force has awakened that separatists in Québec also have to be awakened...

Well...THIS thread is all about the anecdote, so...pay attention boy... Great kid, but he doesnt listen...

I havent had too many bad experiences. Its because with me and my experiences: 1. I know what I like. 2. I know what I want. 3. I know what I need. (all three things may not necessarily be the same either...) 4. I know what I could afford before stepping into a dealership 5. I usually buy more often than not, the top of the line highest trim model (my wife is the opposite...its the base model she chooses) 6. I usually buy, more often than not, a car that is in the showroom or on the lot. 7. And because I do that, the colour, although important, if all else jives, which also helps with the negotiations, unless the colour is really hideous, becomes lees important. 8. I know how to negotiate...and what does that mean? a. I know how much cars cost...its written on the bloody paper on the windshield b. I know what cars could be negotiated aggressively on, when in the year to do that and when I do negotiate a price of a vehicle with a salesman in his office, its because I am buying that car TODAY... c. I know a good deal when I see one. I dont fall for the 'games', but I dont get any games because the salesguys KNOW im serious...my body language allows them to "close" me...because I allow for negotiations to happen...I dont low ball...I know how low I could go. I dont go low when a brand new of the year hot model comes out..things like that... d. I know what a "fair" deal is...and because Im a business guy myself...I own a restaurant, I have the mentality that Im here to buy, he is here to sell, he is here to make money...duh...its a business... And most of the time...things go smoooooothly.... There was only two times when things did not go well, both times happened in 1999 when I was 26 years old... long story short Jeep dealership. I walk in...I sit inside a Grand Cherokee...I want....Ill buy. Salesman walks to me while Im sitting inside the Jeep. - "She is nice, isnt she?" he says to me...yes in English, yes in a southern drawl, keep in mind this is Montreal... > "sure is" I respond...innocently as I did not know where he was going with this. > "How much is this particular model gonna set ME back" I says to him while also acknowledging to him there is no transaction bill anywhere in the vehicle.. - he blurts out a number which I dont remember now...and this: "and maybe one day, you could afford something like this" > I get out of the Jeep,close the door very slowly like, I let the door touch the latch and gently push on the window sill to close it while telling him nonchalantly "well, sir, that day is today, too bad for you, you wont be selling this Jeep to me" and I leave. The other time was, later that week at a Toyota dealership. My business partner knew this Toyota salesman, my business partner is also 6 years older than I...anyhoo, he told me to go see this guy...I did with my 26 year old cousin....we were both looking to get a 4Runner. Well, same story there, did not take us seriously...and we were 26 years old...granted...we both still looked like we were 19 year olds at that point in time...there is no reason for that...anyhoo, I told my partner what a jackass he was, he called hil to tell him off. He did tell him off, he begged him to tell us to come back...and we would get a fantastic deal.... I later went to another dealership to look at a Solara...I ended up buying a 1999 Olds Alero and my cousin traded in his 1994 Integra Special Edition for a 1999 Acura Integra GS-R.

restomodding and pro-touring could go many different ways... If I was doing a 1980s G-Body from GM....other than a numbers matchiung GNX that Id keep stock...I would NEVER go higher than a modern 5.3 liter V8 from GM ... Id probably do 300 horse 3.6 liter V6 ... A 3rd generation F-Body? Hell..because those arent exactly classics yet...other than maybe a 1989 Turbo Trans Am...Id even tinker with the idea of a 2.0T... When classic muscle is concerned though from the 1960s and early 1970s....pro-touring resto-modded LSx motors would be the way Id go... No...not Novas...those would be 2.0Ts and TTV6 3.6liters...Im talking about faux GTos and 442s and Chevelles and Impala SS...

@ Reg... So...if Tesla wont benefit the consumer...what advantages are there for Tesla....if I cant haggle the price and save me some money...Ill still buy a Porsche EV or a Chevy Volt...where that business modle helps me...and that business model clearly helps the old guard... Guys...YOU CANT HAVE IT BOITH WAYS!!!! Either Tesla's way is NOT advantageous or it is....pick one and go with that...dont flip flop... But it seems to me ya'll afraid of change or afraid of Tesla or just plain evil...you folk WAQNT to join the Drak Side.... Come to the Dark Side...it is your Destiny...I have FORESEEN IT!!!

@ Wings... advantageous..... So we punish and become a Commie state because Michigan laws and the big Detroit 3 are antiquitated Becaue Tesla is a brand new company that does not want to be burdened and shackled with a flawed business model...so we continue on with a middle ages approach... I can see clearly now...Michigan State laws are ISIS and ISIL... LMFAO!!!

Fairness...by not allowing a legal business to do....business...in a very capitalistic way...by cutting out the middleman...in a very free market country... HA! Wings....trying to control the market by favouring one way over another is very contradictory to what your country stands for...in fact...many Americans have died defending this particular way and the so called freedoms it carries....during WW2 and Korea and especially in Viet Nam... Americans have painted other Americans during the 1950s as Commies...that was known as McCarthyism.... Americans love to hate socialists....and make fun of Canada for this very reason that Michigan is denying Tesla... So.....how is selling to the public outright unfair? I thought 'twas necessary for a car maker to have a dealership because of all that inventory they need to have in a showroom....if anything...Tesla is at a disadvantage with this kinda business model... OK....it is not a disadvantaged...rather an advantage...because that is what YOU are saying.... OK...that means that dealerships only screw the customer...so why should I feel for the old guard again? OK....that is not the reason you say? What is this disadvantage you talk about? Is it because the old guard is an antiquated way of doing business because THAT is what YOU are implying.... So...why should a car company NOT break the mold and MODERNIZE the business model? The old guard cant have it both ways.... They cant continue with a very dated way of doing business and they cant stop progress...