ccap41

Let's see a NASCAR do 500 miles without stopping for a refuel. An electric race car could be made to beat a NASCAR if they had a battery pack swap feature. Very good point. They will probably stop between 8-10 times Sunday for fuel and/or tires.

The Yukon starts $17,000 more than the Acadia and with the 2k price drop it will be 19k difference. That's pretty significant to most people, probably all buying the Acadia. So while it is only a step away it is an un-affordable jump for most. So size per dollar is why people are upset about it. Personally, I like it because I like the Edge and Grand Cherokee size vehicles. Larger, 2 row SUVs.

Nahhh you're drunk. Go home.

You've never replaced your headlights after 16 years????? I guess it doesn't have the DRL so unless you do a ton of night driving it kind of makes sense.

Me too...me too. But electric power also gets me hot and bothered... Im conflicted... However, Im not fighting the pain in my brain...Ive learned to love both at the same time... As you know CCAP, Im a muscle car guy through and through...and at the basic level...what does that mean actually? Gobs and gobs of torque at low RPMs. Well, electric power has all of its torque...and its a shyte load...INSTANTANEOUS at ANY RPM... Its hard for a muscle car guy NOT to love electric sport sedans...for the FEEL of you being pushed to the back of your seat when your foot presses the accelator pedal... Yeah.."feel"...we've seen that word before.... My partner's Model S...Oh, what a feeling! TESLA! (yeah..I stole that line from a certain Japanese automobile manufacturer) Do electric cars still have a tachometer? All this low end and instantaneous talk got me thinking.. Funny enough, I loved my 4.6 in my mustang, I can't get enough of the GT350 yeeeettttt my driving style suits electric and the monster push rod engines when it comes to performance cars and small displacement turbos like my current 2.0 where they make a lot of low end tq but don't scream on the top end. I'm not the kind to hoon around on a regular basis so low end tq is where it's at for me. I NEED to get a ride in a Model S. I can't imagine what that ride is like. Such a freakin quick car and it's big and...quiet!

Gasoline fumes, eh? How about the smell of a car running w/o catalytic converters or the smell of a race car burning that high octane stuff..also without cats?? Now that smell gets me all hot and bothered!

Also, not trying to bash your purchase in any way but how is that 3.7? I just looked up the numbers on it and 210hp out of a 3.7 sounds a little weak? Does it feel better than the numbers? I mean it isn't like 200hp is weak for a smaller SUV it just seems weak for the engine displacement. Actually, back then 210 hp out of a 3.7 was an improvement over 190 out of the 4.0 it replaced...V6 hp numbers are higher now than they were a decade ago.. Yeah, I also saw it was like 230tq so those are the kind of numbers you want out of an suv, if you ask me. I'd always take the usable tq over a peaky power band.

Neither car is "easy" to get in or out of in my opinion but the view from the Camaro is a deal breaker for me.. While I'm not a huge fan of the exterior I could deal with it and I guarantee if I bought one I would fall in love with the lines of it but when I sat in one the window didn't start will 6-8 inches above my shoulder. Granted, I'm not tall at only 5'8" but I'm not short either and the seat could have definitely been adjusted but there was no way it would adjust as much as I would have needed to feel comfortable looking out. I could live with the poor blind spot over time probably because any car in the class won't have great blind spot visibility but I was definitely hoping for more improvement than there was.

Anybody else watching the Duels in Daytona??? Pretty good racing!

Its more like this, CCAP Hahahaha I forgot about the puking guy!!

The interiors are a wash if you ask me. They're different but neither is actually anything special. It's more which design and shapes do you like better because neither is swathing everything in leather and soft touch materials or anything, and rightfully so. Personally, I think the Tacoma looks the best from the outside and I think a lot of that has to do with how "soft" the twins look, especially compared to their older brothers the Sierra and Silverado. Yeah it's borderline impressive how far GM has stayed away from dirt for any truck. Just appearance packages.

Totally missed the point. If the Camaro can gain conquest sales out of segment, then good. But the segment itself remains about bang for the buck. There is no aristocracy, despite what the various badges and stripe packages may imply. If your car can't deliver the goods for X amount of dollars it's not gonna do well. And the 1LE is about to finish tipping the apple cart. Why ever buy a Corvette then? Why not just buy a Camaro, super charge it for WAAAAY less then the price difference of a Camaro to a Vette and be on your way smoking everything on the streets? You honestly don't understand the intangibles statement that Suav put out there. It's like how a car "feels". You don't grasp that concept and it's shown over the course of 180 posts. I don't know if you're just being stubborn or if you actually don't understand it at this point. Suav's point is spot on. You don't understand what he is saying because he isn't saying Camaro and Mustang. If bang for your buck is all people cared about Porsche wouldn't be in business, Ferrari, Lamborghini, MB, BMW, etc. And to say this is the only market of cars in which people want bang for your buck is just an ignorant and ill-informed statement. For 42k you can get the same thing every other Camaro has or for 56k you can get something unique, equally capable, more powerful, and they aren't on the corner of every Chevy dealers' lot. People constantly are making automotive purchases from the heart/gut, especially when it comes to a toy car.

This is the $h! that annoys the hell out of people and why you've been referred to as a..."troll". The term gets thrown around quite a bit, well it used to when Wings was around. It's good to see his thrown didn't get too cold before somebody hopped into it. Keep it nice and warm while you're there, I know you will. go on, fluff away..

Ya know what's ironic? That is something almost EXACTLY like Wings would say. Shelby was a part of the 13+ GT500s. This is the first that I'm aware of that he is not a part of, for obvious reasons. I don't think Ford, or anybody else, is too worried what you think about the price of their GT350/R. The lone example I have.. it sat on the showroom for 2 days before being sold. I have a feeling Ford will be quite satisfied with that turnaround. Sorry but like Bong pointed out, the fact that Ford is now offering upgrades that were previously unavailable on the GT350, is at least an indication that Ford is trying to increase the value of it with the 1LE on it's way. It's a reactionary move by Ford because if they really felt the car was worth that (vs. the competition mind you, not in general), they would not have to offer that. I am not saying that his 100% the case but the evidence is certainly there to support such an assertion. Just something to consider before thinking he is just trolling to troll like the quitter did. Oh I understand your viewpoint but he is most certainly trolling to troll. Exactly like Wings would.. Same blatant statements talking up future stuff as if it is here now and the bestest ever to have ever been created on the face of the earth.

Are you that thick headed? C'mon man. Every automotive company ever(alright, I'll exclude the exotics) makes changes year over year(or two) to their packages that include more and more standard features. For example, backup cameras, lcd radio displays, power seats... Those are on base trims. As you go up the ladder the features become pricier. Cars never used to have massaging seats and ya know what? They come standard on certain trims of certain cars now as opposed to paying extra for them. So when the Silverado and Sierra get massaging seats is it because they are nervous of the F150(Platinum)? By your logic, yes, they will be nervous. See, stupid statement. What option that was not available on the GT350 is now available on it for 2017?

Ya know what's ironic? That is something almost EXACTLY like Wings would say. Shelby was a part of the 13+ GT500s. This is the first that I'm aware of that he is not a part of, for obvious reasons. I don't think Ford, or anybody else, is too worried what you think about the price of their GT350/R. The lone example I have.. it sat on the showroom for 2 days before being sold. I have a feeling Ford will be quite satisfied with that turnaround.

Never, not once, said that you did but the overall tone and words from the Ford camp was exactly what I said. I really could give a crap about the price one way or the other. All cars are overpriced. I'm just saying that the Shelby name isn't as valuable as it used to be. And are you not the one who said, on this thread, that you knew of a Shelby selling for exactly list price? Yes, I am the one who gave the ONLY example of an actual Shelby's price being sold. That was my point. We don't have examples of ones selling over or under or anything else. So to say, "...it would sell far above list because of demand for the NAME. It did not happen" is not necessarily true because out of all of the Shelbys that have been sold in the last couple of months we have one lone example of it selling at list price and zero selling at any other mark up or mark downs. We just don't know. Yes, they did insinuate or straight up say that but I don't know why you're telling me what other people have said.. that means nothing to this conversation unless you were either grouping me in with them or insinuating I said it as well. Absolutely correct, 99% of cars on the market are over priced. I'll give the sub 15k cars a break.. they probably aren't over priced.. but that's about it in my books. And this is why it sucks that cars are a hobby of mine(ours). If I could, I'd drive a different vehicle every 6 months and love it. I just love driving different things and with the price of cars that isn't practical in any way. What's your opinion on the 45k car? I'm genuinely curious because that is kind of an awkward price point for these cars.

Sexiest looking wagon I've ever seen. I can honestly say it looks sexier than a CTS-V wagon, even though the CTS-V wagon is gnarlier.

And I was never one of those people who gawked over the Shelby name bringing prices above list so I'm not really sure what the other posters have anything to do with this..? Also, how do either of us know what they are or are not selling for? I only know one example of a sale price and that's because of a good friend works at a stealership. I mean there are plenty examples of them LISTED above MSPR but we don't know what the out-the-door price is on them. Unless you have a source saying they are not selling above list then neither of us actually know what new owners are paying. I know I have no clue other than the one example and he's paying to have his shipped from (basically)STL to New Hampshire. He paid list but was obviously willing to pay extra for the car if he's sending his own truck and trailer for it.

So what you're saying is, theoretically, even if the GT350 was priced at 100k it "should" sell for even more if the Shelby name carried any weight? What if they already priced it accordingly though? Why would it sell over sticker if the sticker is already accurate to the market(which would incorporate the name)?

Really??? Amazon has their own delivery vehicles? Impressive.

Not based on what's going on up here with the GT500 and Zeta ZL1. Consumers know that SVT is the real development muscle behind the Shelby name, so it's judged accordingly. ZL1 doesn't have the name recognition the Shelby name does. How many people outside of us car nuts know The Legend has even passed? Probably most that buy a Shelby and prior to the GT350 he was a part of all of the cars with his name on them. Like the 662hp GT500. The name Shelby carries more weight than 1LE and will maintain a higher resale value if both cars have the same mileage on them. How much? No clue if I'm being honest. No clue at all. I just know the Shelby name has a lot of value. Actually, if I'm not wrong, the GT350 doesn't have SVT anywhere on it.. At least it isn't in the name. Maybe they have it engraved on the valve covers like they've done in the past. If Shelby had all that recognition, then it would sell above list price. It would not just be predicated on the used market value. Just saying. If it is priced correctly then it wouldn't, right? Or are you saying it doesn't matter what the list price is people will pay above it? And according to Bong, it is priced too high, or in this case, in line or where Shelbys "should" be. I guess what do you mean by " It would not just be predicated on the used market value." because that's where collector cars are also. Yes, used, but they have a solid demand still. Personally, I love the ZL1. It's right up my ally. Big V8, supercharged, 580hp, magnet shocks for a softer AND tighter suspension when I want them. It seems like the best GT of the two..that either of them had made up until now. Now the Mustang GT and Camaro SS are just better overall cars but I'd still take a ZL1 over a GT or SS in a heartbeat. To me, it was a "bruiser". It had brawn. Okay that went a little off topic.. oh well. On another off-topic bit.. check out how insane this dealer is. Mind you, this is just a Mustang GT. http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=62249&endYear=2017&modelCode1=MUST&showcaseOwnerId=3251723&makeCode1=FORD&startYear=2013&firstRecord=0&searchRadius=100&showcaseListingId=387682870&mmt=%5BFORD%5BMUST%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=413855461&Log=0 $100k. lol Edit: So I realize this is not scientific in ANY real way but when I sifted through AutoTrader for 13+ GT500s and ZL1 the GT500s tend to be roughly 5-7k more for about the same mileage. I tried to be at least somehwhat "accurate". Both between 3-15k miles and the GT500s were between 47k-57k(50-55 was the norm) and the ZL1s were more in the 40-50k range(they tended to have ~3-5k more miles as well). But for 45k I'd rather have a ZL1 than an SS 1LE. Actually, what would you guys rather have for 45k? It's kind of an awkward price for these cars. Can't get a GT350 or Z/28, could work really hard to find a GT500, or loaded up SS or GTs? Or throw the Challenger in there as well. No Hellcat but you could probably still find SRTs for that price.

Not based on what's going on up here with the GT500 and Zeta ZL1. Consumers know that SVT is the real development muscle behind the Shelby name, so it's judged accordingly. ZL1 doesn't have the name recognition the Shelby name does. How many people outside of us car nuts know The Legend has even passed? Probably most that buy a Shelby and prior to the GT350 he was a part of all of the cars with his name on them. Like the 662hp GT500. The name Shelby carries more weight than 1LE and will maintain a higher resale value if both cars have the same mileage on them. How much? No clue if I'm being honest. No clue at all. I just know the Shelby name has a lot of value. Actually, if I'm not wrong, the GT350 doesn't have SVT anywhere on it.. At least it isn't in the name. Maybe they have it engraved on the valve covers like they've done in the past.

I can honestly say that I don't know what the resale value is or depreciation rate is on the two over a 5 year period but I'd wager decent money that that bridge closes quite a bit right there.