ccap41

Top of the page bump. And thanks dfelt. I'm afraid that their margains will slowly diminish because there are so many different products and only so many different ones can sell at a high enough rate to profit.

Call me a conspiracy theorist if you feel like it...but... Does anybody else worry that the automotive companies are starting to thin themselves out too far again? I mean look at BMW and MB and how they offer 78 different GLE/X5 variants and that can be said through both entire lineups. We are consistantly getting new niche vehicles from nearly evrey company, more and more performance variants within each lineup, there's an AMG and M for everything, ST/GT/RS for Fords and it sounds like they're only expanding, rumors of a full size Ram SUV, Chevy has two identical lineups and both are looking to add new vehicles to them.. Last time there were multiple brands involved but this time I feel like it is less brands(obviously) but expanding lineups to fill all of these voids but eventually people won't be buying cars again. It's just the cycle of economics, highs and lows. What happens when people can't afford cars again at the clip we're buying them right now? They'll be back where they once were, I feel. So, does anybody else kind of worry about this in the back of their minds as well or am I the only one?

That isn't too good considering nearly the entire automotive market is way up right now.

AB-SO-LUTELY! As far as I know a portion of a post cannot simply just disappear without a moderator fiddling with it or the "edited by:" appearing at the bottom(look below for example ). I think the bigger issue would be one reading what one wants to read rather than possibly giving somebody the benefit of the doubt when talking about a subjective aspect of a car, looks.

I could not agree more. They are just outrageously priced. It's stupid when you build a vehicle online and have absolutely no clue what you'd actually pay at a dealer because there are consistantly different rebates and incentives going around.

Actually if you look at it closely incentives can be actually be part of a solution for maximizing revenue or lowering costs. Simply put, they are gaining more in revenue by offering incentives, that they could without. Sound business strategy. And same of GM. Brand new truck really, with incentives pushing 10k very soon. INCENTIVES aren't bad folks, especially if it maximizes the bottom-line. Not really. Say you make 11 grand profit at a dealer negotiated price. If you knock 10k off that price it drives the profit down to 1 grand, Hence you have to sell 11 trucks at the incentive price to make the same amount of profit as if you could sale one at full price. In any case, they all do it, but he F-150 is the newest of the bunch and to be seeing such lofty discounts is no a good thing. If I'm not wrong, some of those dealer incentives are at the dealer's expense not Fords. So while some incentives are costing Ford profit(it's arguable that they would sell any at ful msrp) some are costing the dealer profits while Ford walks away with their full asking price to the dealers. Also, every mainstream manufacturer does it and they all do it all the time, not just after the new model year of a new vehicle. If they are showing their heavy discounts and continuing to increase their profits I'm sure the only people concerned about the incentive are the ones on the internet because they're doing juuuuust fine.

I know it won't add sales directly.. but it would grab some enthusiasts' attention and possibly just the general public's attention and get some indirect sales.

WTF. I can't get over how freakin' badass that car looks. 7.32.19. That puts it ahead of some pretty gnarly cars and 32nd all-time.

Unless it has something to compete with Magic Body Control like the Benz does.. it won't truly be the total package. Give me something to read the road so I NEVER feel the bumps, now that's marshmellow mode.

That is a better way to put it, overlap. It's funny because my driving style is definitely of the passive and a luxury cruiser would suite me better but I would still WANT the sporty, aggressive, nimble car. I'd like to read a comparison of the two but as a Ford guy that probably wouldn't be the best article to read..lol

Speaking of Transit, I've actually seen a lot of them in either box truck form or others the past few weeks. Aaaaaand... WHERE ARE THESE E-SERIES THEY'RE STILL SELLING?!?!? lol Good numbers across the board for Ford, less so for Lincoln.. Hopefully they will eventually just give us a damn RWD Lincoln. One can only dream. Drew, The Promaster is SO ugly that even a company who only wants the best tool for the job wouldn't want his company's name on the size of that.

Why would it be more of a turd than the base 2.5? The 2.0T COULD just be taken out of the Regal GS at 259hp/295tq and that's pretty stout numbers compared to the base 2.5's 200hp/191tq. And in all of those vehicles(the Fords) it wasn't the top engine so it's fine that it wasn't very quick as they offered an engine above the 2.0T.

^ I think that was the impression that was given. Also, with the CT6 starting at 55k does that mean that the Conti may possibly compete with it..? I know it appears that the Conti will definitely not be the driver's car like the CT6 but if they're of similar size, similar price, similar segment, then they'd compete, right?

Nice write up! Thanks for it. As for the 2.0T in it. I could see just a detuned 2.0T as a replacement for the base engine. As it stands it does seem too close in numbers to the 3.6(while probably a better choice would be the 2.0 for its tq curve but I don't think the customer would swallow a 2.0T as the top engine in a truck quite yet). If they could drop the numbers to around 225/250 that would be a fantastic base engine. But I guess they might not want that good of a base engine so people still pay the premium for the 3.6. Somehow it would be nice to see it squeezed in there. I guess the more I think about it the less sense it makes..

I FINALLY got to watch the video! Balls, I just can't get over the sound. I'm not sure if it was Ford or MT but it sucks they couldn't take it to Willow like everything else.

Alright Alright Alright.. I still think 47k isn't as bad as you're saying it is because I still think it is special.. however.. When it comes to the mechanicals I do think the only difference in a base GT350 and a GT is the engine, trans, and seats. I mean the front end on the exterior is different, completely different front facia and hood, I believe. I'd actually really like to know what suspension pieces are different from a GT PP.

$10k buys a nice chunk of Lingenfelter Camaro SS upgrades the downside to that is the devaluing of one vehicle.. Everybody knows the Shelby name will help hold it's value. If we're talking straight performance. Absolutely take a base GT or SS and stick the 10-15k in and you'll smoke some pretty exotic cars..but once we're talking aftermarket it is a whole different game. Are we buying museum pieces or race cars here? Every lap around a track will devalue the car. If you're worried about the long term value, buy a trailer and turn the car into a trailer queen that never adds any miles except driving on and off the trailer. Honestly, a Shelby that costs $10k - $20k more than a base Camaro SS with the same performance already has already devalued in my eyes..... but I'm the practical type and careful with money. Yeah and at the end of the day the name Shelby is more valuable than a highly modified Camaro/Mustang/Challenger that had the same dollar amount put into it. I agree that long term value is a silly thing to argue but then again we argue about a tenth here or there and refer to it as a slaughtering. Honestly, that engine alone is worth the 10k price jump. It's so glorious with all its noises.

$10k buys a nice chunk of Lingenfelter Camaro SS upgrades the downside to that is the devaluing of one vehicle.. Everybody knows the Shelby name will help hold it's value. If we're talking straight performance. Absolutely take a base GT or SS and stick the 10-15k in and you'll smoke some pretty exotic cars..but once we're talking aftermarket it is a whole different game.

I highlighted the 20 grand difference because that is the price difference between the two cars. So, that means that as optioned a mid-level Shelby is life and death to beat a base SS. And since the video discusses the Shelby's Magnetic Ride I'm guessing the Track Pack is the option pack it has. Now. Let that sink in. You could trim the price difference down by seven grand by removing some of the Shelby's handling chops. And you could remove another two or three by giving the Camaro Magnetic Ride. But as a Ford fan, do you really want to go down that road? It may be enough to tip the balance to the SS in most, if not all, categories. Alright, but the two numbers you keep clinging to will be the same with or without the Track Pack. I don't know how many times I've said it but you continue to compare these straight line numbers saying they are similar yet there is still no track test of the two of them. WE DONT KNOW. It is not "life or death" for the Shelby. I guess I just don't understand why you talk sooooooooooo much $h! against the Mustang when it isn't near as bad as you make it out to be. The GT350 is designed for something that the GT isn't and the SS is more like it. Do you know factually how much better the magnetic ride for both cars is? For all we know it's good for 0.1 in the figure eight. So for all we know they are, like I suggested, only 10k apart. And you get one of the best sounding motors ever created(opinion, but I haven't heard anybody dislike it yet) matched with the Shelby nameplate.

Yeah and you won't be buying a Camaro when you want a Shelby. That was kind of my point. Just because they are putting down similar numbers doesn't mean you will cross shop them and doesn't make the Corvette any less than spectacular. Personally, on cars like this I see the figure-8 a much more telling story as they are already rolling and two switchbacks that would upset an insuperior chassis. Low end torque isn't used when you're getting after it. It's used in 1st gear and that's it. After that every shift is done at redline and the rpms only drop a couple grand and you never see that brute of torque below 4k. Maybe on a slow, tight corner...but it wouldn't be often that a motor like the LT1 while down on peak power would have an advantage over a peak motor on a race track, which is the only place these cars can truly be extracted anyway. Where are you getting $20,000 from? You're comaring a base SS, correct? $37,XXX So a base GT350 is $47,XXX. You cannot logically list a base price to an as tested price. Again, if you're so worried about a couple tenths and the price difference then the Stingray will never sell again. Because that starts around 55k and youre only getting marginally better performance than the 37k Camaro. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Would you two please stop your pissing match in yet another thread so people can actually talk about the cars? Please, and thank you.

Very good question. I have a good friend who works at Cadillac PR. I've emailed him and asked him if any pictures of the base CT6 exist yet. I'll let you know what he says. That would be awesome! I always wonder these things because the majority of vehicles on the road aren't "platinums" or "Limiteds" or AMGs or whathave you and some look good stripped down and some don't. I think a lot of "lux" cars today look good down to base trim mostly because nobody puts small wheels on ANYTHING anymore so that gap is relatively filled in every trim. Edit: Wow, apparently the page/my internet lagged behind and I didn't see your second post till I had already posted this one. Anyway, Thanks for the find! and that looks great if that is the base trim/wheels. Good job Cadillac. I think they have themselves a standup triple.

And none of those are track times. That is my point. You're blowing this Camaro SS out of proportion UNTIL there is an actual comparison made available. ZL1 is not an SS, which you are comparing to the Shelby. So the resale of the ZL1 is pointless in this GT350/SS comparison. Based on your logic, if these numbers are "too close for comfort" why buy a Stingray? Why buy ANYTHING other than a Camaro SS because it is the best bang for your dollar? Right? That is basically what you're saying. 3.9 to 60mph is legitimately FAST. So why buy a car that can do it in 3.5? Would that not be "too close for comfort"? I mean a base Stingray runs 3.9 to 60mph, 1/4 mile in 12.2@118. Why buy it? Because it has the ability to hold 0.04g sustained? No, it has to be because of the brakes. The Vette stops ~15ft shorter than the Camaro. So, for $20,000 you car a car that has better brakes, and less interior room over the Camaro SS. Why buy it? Is it perhaps more than just the sum of those numbers that make it a great car? Absolutely. You're putting so much stock into a few numbers and riding those numbers to the grave high atop your clydesdale.

It's not a drag car and that is all you're currently comparing it to. There aren't comparative lap times that I know of, right? Aaaaand that is what the GT350 is. It is more of a road course car than a drag strip car and all you are comparing it by is straight line numbers. And I HATE, absolutely HATE talking about resale but there will be a much higher resale % for anything labled Shelby over "just" a Camaro(I didn't know how to word that without talking down to the Camaro but you get what I'm saying).

Oh I don't think it will ever look "bad". I'm just curous because we are always showcased the top trims(for obvious reasons) so I want to see what that base 2.0T looks like.

Can't the same exact thing be said for any race ever though? Just because the Chevy has gobs of torque doesn't mean it could start a highway pull at 3 grand or miss a shift and win. There is only one change to win a drag race of any kind. A screw up will lead to the other car winning 99% of the time, unless the car just happens to be an absolute monster. I think the GT350 will definitely have an edge on a highway pull over a standing start though but I think that is kind of obvious with how the car was designed and it's intentions. Yeah, these will be driven by idiots not just going to 60mph. I am not a street racer. Never have, hopefully never will. Gateway Motorsport park is 40 minutes from home and every Wednesday they have a "test n tune" for like 15 bucks. I definitely do not see it as being different to be different. It has that peaky motor for a reason. Sometimes there is such a thing as too much torque and it is more than likely when you're exiting a corner and want to stand on the throttle at a mellow 3-4k(in the Chevy) and POW! torque everywhere. Progressive powerbands have their place and it is definitely not on a drag strip. They know this. Ohhhh man!! YOU JUST WAIT!! Once the 2017 GT500 drops.. It'll just...It'll... FAST!!!!