Stew

If the original Fusion wasn't based on the Mazda 6 it wouldn't have been nearly as successful. Food for thought......... Ford then, like Fiat is now of Chrysler, pulled the strings. On November 18, 2008, Ford announced that it would sell a 20% stake in Mazda, reducing its stake to 13.4% thus surrendering control of the company, which it held since 1996. It was still a platform designed by and for Mazda and put into use by Mazda years before Ford started making the Fusion. That is the point, like it or not. Using other manufacturers platforms is nothing new.

If the original Fusion wasn't based on the Mazda 6 it wouldn't have been nearly as successful. Food for thought.........

I think the Wrangler truck will get the same improvements as a the regular Wrangler because i isn't all new, but heavily redone evolution of the current JK platform. I have a new love though, hat Comanche concept based on the Renegade. LOVE it! I am sure hey will never build that one, bu I think hey would have a runaway hit.

All engines picked up a few MPG in the EPA cycle without getting more gears and actually getting a considerably larger footprint......

Agreed. Apparently there is going to be a large use of high strength hydroformed steel.

Maybe, but I don't understand why, with the myriad of differences coming, that a mere 24MPG hwy rating is hard to believe.

You are taking it further than you need. A greater rake to the windshield/grille does no have to take the Jeep look away at all. Here is an interesting AllPar article about the 18 Wrangler. http://www.allpar.com/SUVs/jeep/wrangler/2017.html No, I think you're underestimating how much work the other manufacturers have put into achieving 18/24 for the v6 4x4 Colorado and 18/23 for the v6 4x4Tacoma. If you don't think they put an emphasis on fuel economy and aerodynamics and then Jeep will be the first? C'mon. That flat windshield(raked or not), flat roof, fender flares.. all things that go on a vehicle aiming at improved "slipperiness". Riddle me this Batman. they can already get 16/23 from the MUCH larger and MUCH heavier Ram with the same Pentastar 3.6 V6/8 speed and even 15/21 from the 4x4 1500 Ram 4x4 with the 395 HP Hemi/8 speed. Seriously............. Do you think FCA is inventing aerodynamic air flow on the 2020 Jeep Truck for the first time ever. You honestly are either being that stubborn or you seriously think GM and Toyota have never put their trucks in a wind tunnel looking for an edge. If you don't think they have then maybe, just maybe, look at that lower front diffuser on the Colorado that make it appear only a few inches off the ground when you look at that. There is your riddle. Yes, and what is makin ou think they won't use a lot of these tricks on the Wrangler/pickup? you don't think FCA has wind tunnels? You can divert air around a vehicle, under and over. The Wrangler s going to have a lower roof combined with everything else mentioned. You are just being stubborn because it is FCA. There is absolutely ZERO reason hey cannot achieve 24 MPG on the highway. Just going from he same 5 speed to the 8 speed in the Charger pentastar netted 4 additional hwy MPG by itself as there was absolutely no difference between the aero of the 2.

You are taking it further than you need. A greater rake to the windshield/grille does no have to take the Jeep look away at all. Here is an interesting AllPar article about the 18 Wrangler. http://www.allpar.com/SUVs/jeep/wrangler/2017.html No, I think you're underestimating how much work the other manufacturers have put into achieving 18/24 for the v6 4x4 Colorado and 18/23 for the v6 4x4Tacoma. If you don't think they put an emphasis on fuel economy and aerodynamics and then Jeep will be the first? C'mon. That flat windshield(raked or not), flat roof, fender flares.. all things that go on a vehicle aiming at improved "slipperiness". Riddle me this Batman. they can already get 16/23 from the MUCH larger and MUCH heavier Ram with the same Pentastar 3.6 V6/8 speed and even 15/21 from the 4x4 1500 Ram 4x4 with the 395 HP Hemi/8 speed. Seriously.............

You are taking it further than you need. A greater rake to the windshield/grille does no have to take the Jeep look away at all. Here is an interesting AllPar article about the 18 Wrangler. http://www.allpar.com/SUVs/jeep/wrangler/2017.html

I agree, though from photos it is looking mini GC. I think they just got such a great design with the Patriot. it just screams Jeep with elements of the XJ and Wrangler baked into the design.

Yes, it will be based on the Wrangler so it will be printing money for FCA. I wonder how bad of fuel mileage the Jeep truck will get compared to the other trucks who have at least visited wind tunnels. It'll be rated 18/19 city/highway, lol. Actually the current Wranglers are already rated over 20 MPG on the hwy with the old 5 speed auto. This will be based on the new Wrangler which will be lighter, more aerodynamic, and have the 8 speed auto. m I say it will not have a problem matching Colorado FE engine for engine. No chance it would match the Colorado if they are working on similar drivelines. I mean even if the Wrangler truck had the newest 8 or 9spd from the FCA camp you're still talking about pushing a brick through air. I highly doubt they will be ballsy enough to change the look of the new Wrangler enough to be considered "aero efficient" by anybody's standards. I can't imagine it changing much from the current Wrangler's 16/21. I would definitely expect improvements but not a whole lot. 17/24 in its most efficient trim. Now if it has a 2WD version that would get another little bump over the Wranglers but I just don't see a way that this will match a Colorado's 18/26 in the v6 at all. Its not only " pushing a brick through the air ". Under vehicle aerodynamics on a vehicle are often overlooked. And on the Wrangler, they are less than ideal and greatly affect its drag coefficient The V6 Colorado is 17/24 with 4wd/V6 and I see that completely doable. There are tricks to increasing aero such as grill shudders, a greater rake to the windshield, and grill, all of which we know the Wrangler (and as an extension the pickup) will have. In the same way the Ram is far more aerodynamic than it looks.

Yes, it will be based on the Wrangler so it will be printing money for FCA. I wonder how bad of fuel mileage the Jeep truck will get compared to the other trucks who have at least visited wind tunnels. It'll be rated 18/19 city/highway, lol. Actually the current Wranglers are already rated over 20 MPG on the hwy with the old 5 speed auto. This will be based on the new Wrangler which will be lighter, more aerodynamic, and have the 8 speed auto. m I say it will not have a problem matching Colorado FE engine for engine.

Leave it to you to find the one low spot. Anyways, this is simply because they removed incentives in a class where the highest incentives and lowest price gets the sale.

Simply put, price. They drive well and are still good vehicles. i would own another one. The 6 speed auo that was introduced for 14 also helped with a major boost to sales. Everyone I know that owns one absolutely loves them. I hope all of those sales stick around when they are replaced with a single model soon.

C'MON EL K... You went from dissing the Ford Mustang GT350 and how to fix it to straight trolling Ford and their lack of RWD platforms... You know...Wings is no longer posting here, there is no Ford PR fluff master to "put into place"... MOPAR...you did mention the Giulia...HA! the Giulia is POSTPONED... But...lets talk about MOPAR... With an "old" platform, MOPAR still manages to keep the Challenger cool and hip. Even with Euro badge snobs, this car is revered... Ford...albeit not in the point in time I was looking at the GT350 at the Montreal auto show...the GT350 EL K...lets get that clear... Ford has made the GT350 into a lustful machine...Euro badge snobs look at it and wished their Euro trashed car was more like it...Jay Leno's words, not mine...and lets be honest...his circle of car guy friends sure makes yours and my car guy friends look like pansies... Lets be honest about the Camaro... Its a car with a CORVETTE engine under the hood. Yeah...you think that is a good marketing angle? Id rather just buy a Corvette and I could stop pretending owning a Corvette by driving a Camaro... And I aint even gonna talk about the bag over the head looks its got... You see EL K...I could troll Chevy just as good you try to troll Ford... Now...you know I dont want to do that. Just to correct one thing, they start building the Guilla next month......

Gotta disagree with you Stew, that is such an Ugly truck plus so far the Tacoma has not impressed me even in TRD PRO package. Would take a Diesel GM Mid size truck over this. Oh, don't get me wong, I think he GM wins are superior in nearl every way. More refined, more power, better FE, Far nicer inside, and much better looking outside. I just think this is the most complete TRD Pro package et and I am enticed by the off-road capabilities. GM's refusal to offer a more serious off-road package or at the very least decent ground clearance on the Trail Boss is what irks me.

Oh, i would of-road the heckens out of it lol.

I like it. it is probably the single Toyota product I would consider purchasing right now.

Dfelt: I still love driving sporty cars, just like my trucks oo CP, yes, they are fantastic lookers, been in love with them since they came out. I really hope they don't mess up the design with the new one, the curent is hard to beat. Of course i is is Audi and evolution instead of revolution is he name of the name haha.

When is the CT6 supposed to be on dealer lots?

Unfotunately mazda doesn't have the sales channels they need to really get those great cars moving though. this is another place a merger would greatly help Mazda. they would still be making the same vehicles and have the added bonus of making additional models for Chrysler, dodge etc to ammortize their own and maximize the use of their available production capacity. Same is true the other way around too. Could you Imagine what mazda could do with the Guilla's (or however yo spell it) new platform? Zoom Zoom indeed.

Mazda really have nothing like jeep or Ram and it would be good for them. Mazda also could supply better platforms than Fiat has and let Chrysler and Dodge continue to do the larger RWD cars and the minivans. This is a move I would do if I were to save FCA. I would also tone down the Alfa and Maserati attack and just focus on high end cars that would do well in Europe for Alfa and Maserati in America. Leverage the plants for Jeep and Mazda in Europe to cut the over capacity and need to import. Not sure what to do with Fiat. It might not hurt to let Mazda take over their direction. This way they would end up with a better car and one that may also do well in Japan. If Mazda touches it the people of Japan may be attracted to it as they love small and home brewed but with a twist. How more niche can you get than Italian heritage and Japan quality. yes, Mazda has been my top choice too. i just think there is so much they could offer each other to make each that much stronger.

I think Mazda would be a perfect fit too. I think there would be good synergy there. Maybe Mazda could use the upcoming Wrangler pickup platform for a reintroduction of their B series.

Views are views, but you badmouth FCA every chance you get, even in threads such as this that didn't have the first thing to do with them. that is outright annoying. In any case i am done here. Just telling the truth bother and sorry if you can't handle it. I speculate that Chrysler us working to cut the low volume and lower profit cars to help them in a merger with someone with a strong car line and no trucks. I saw one financial watcher call it a hail mary. Not my term but the Wall St Analyst. If you also note what I do say is FCA should have put all their money into Chrysler from the start and not Alfa. Where am I wrong here. Is that bashing too? My beef is FCA has raped Chrysler and Sergio is hurting FCA as a whole by not using his strongest division to increase volume and profits. You do not agree Chrysler should not have gotten the Alfa Money. Even now with Alfa losing sales that should make it even clearer. Like I said it is what it is. Knew you couldn't just let it drop.... Honestly, no. I hate to say it, but Chrysler hasn't been the strongest leg of the company for a very long time. Dodge got the lion's share. The CUV, the coupe, the sport's car, the 3 row SUV, and IMHO, they should have gotten the minivan. I like Chrysler, but honestly, they are redundant. Their product portfolio has not been strong for a very long time and until now with the current 200 and Pacifica they were judge a bunch of Dodge leftovers. If they killed CHrysler and gave Dodge back the minivan and a version of the 200 no one would miss them. It is sad, yes, but too many companies standing under one umbrella is not a good hing. If done right, Alfa could be a boom. Something fresh and covering a new sector that is currently not covered here under the FCA banner. Also, the Ram break off was under way well before Fiat was even in he picture. The though was each brand gets to concentrate on what it specializes in. It has worked too. Probably not what you expected and certainly don't agree with, bu there it is. Now do agree with part of what you state and not with some of the rest. Just let me have my opinion too with out you come storming in on every comment like I hate Chrysler. My post are not in hate they are of the issues I see and my wish they can correct them before they become irrelevant. I know you are passionate but so am I and we can both have our space if you let it happen. I just am sick and tired of being labeled for what I am not because our views are different. To me when I speak Chrysler I speaks of Jeep, Ram, Dodge and Chrysler cars. I see a place for all of them if managed correctly. I easily see Dodge being like Ford or Chevy and if done right Chrysler could rival Lincoln and even Cadillac. But at this point they are making Chrysler much less than what it could be. As for Alfa. There just is not much love or past history outside of Europe on a wide scale. The dreams of taking on BMW may be some where in the future but it is no where near 2018. Even for Cadillac it is in the future as you have to earn you spot even if you have a better car. Cadillac I see is years from being the automatic class leader. They first have to get the cars right and then they have to earn the market and reputation back. Like a Heavy Weight title you do not get it for going rounds. Too often it takes a knock out over time to earn the title. I believe they will get there but there is plenty of work to do and still a lot of trust and admiration to earn. You can build the best car in the world but you can not just design or engineer it to the top. You have to let the public embrace it for what it is once they learn and love it for what you did. Also a lot of Ego is involved with buying this car. Make it shine on someones ego or vanity they will buy it no matter what. That is one of the keys to BMW and many of their owners. If Cadillac could find a way to make the CT6 cool in the eyes of the public it could change the whole division. I do not think this is the car that will get them past that but I feel we will soon see it by 2020. That is a good photo of the CT6. I have noted Cadillac's do not photo well but in person you really get the 3D depth of the design much better. ok, fair enough, we will see what happens with Chrysler because there is a huge question mark out there. Hopefully Marchione is gone within a couple years. Would love to see someone like Giles take over, a very passionate car guy in charge would be interesting. Cadillac has the product and I agree they need to find a way to rebuild their cache as a brand. They have fantastic vehicles and more is coming. I do understand they have a recent not so great past to overcome. The CT6 is just so fantastic, but it irks me badge snobs won't give it the light of day. I think a major issue too, with Caddilac and Lincoln, right now is the discounted price factor. Everyone is used to discounts and the dealerships being willing to lop off thousands to get them in their cars. Anywho. i want this car to succeed and the car has the chops for sure.

I got the feeling it's gonna be a beast. Should be a great car. I agree\. finally got a chance to drool over a couple 2SS at the dealership. Dang, it is definitely a Camaro, but all the detailing is much better and I love the smaller, more svelte size.