surreal1272

I wouldn’t know. I didn’t vote for either one of them but your “dilemma” illustrates the problem with the voting process and the mindset of most voters to begin with. You, like so many others, assumed that there were only two choices.

@ccap41-Yet you chose not inform yourself about Trump (or at least selectively not inform yourself about him). Interesting.

Enjoy being duped then. Sorry indeed.

And that’s the problem. It should matter. Saying it doesn’t is just turning a blind eye or just doing this...

You literally ignored every other reason to check his taxes by focusing only on how much he makes as opposed to how he made it and by what means. That’s the point of the tax reveal. We Americans have an absolute right to know how someone made their fortune once they become a public servant, whether it is Hillary Clinton, Ted Cruz, Nancy Pelosi, or Donald Trump. If you don’t see the reasons why, especially after all the legitimate reasons given on this thread, then you are honestly blind, no offense.

Actually it does when HE SAID HE WOULD. I don’t know about you but I prefer presidents keep their word. Besides, it would resolve this “how much is he really worth” argument. And I got some news for you. It matters to a lot of people given his international dealings. If you can’t see the importance of that, then there’s no need in further talking about this with you because it has been nicely laid out throughout this entire thread as to why it’s important. You also cherry picked my statement regarding the debt with a China vs. Japan. The rate at which it has gone up is only one part of the equation. Read this to to get a better idea of why our debt to China is a bigger deal than the debt to Japan. https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-debt-to-china-how-much-does-it-own-3306355

Here’s what you’re not getting. The money possessed by all those other billionaires can be pretty easily verified. Trumps cannot. The man has lied about his wealth for decades and that is a fact. He routinely campaign these finance magazines to show he has more than he actually does. If he wants to really let everyone know how much he has then all he has to do is release his taxes like he promised back in 2016. Otherwise, it’s just another con in a long line of David Dennison cons. Oh and to to answer your Japan debt question, it’s really easy. It sucks but the debt with China is the one growing at a faster rate and we are not always at the potential for military conflict with Japan (not since the 1940s anyway). The ramifications with China are far greater as a result.

What China is doing is not equal to the practices that killed the US economy in the 1930s. Their method of “protectionism” is far different than what we used back in the day. Well it’s easy to get started or recover from bankruptcies when daddy fronts you the money on multiple occasions. Fact. I stand by my “average at best” statement. That would be China and Russia with some side help from the Deutsche Bank. No American bank would touch him. That should tell you something right there.

Those are all fine and dandy scenarios but you chose to ignore one big number. $1.23 Trillion Thats the amount is US debt OWNED by China. You also skipped this number: $12 Trillion That is China’s economy whose growth and GDP, for the record, has and continues to outpace the US economy and GDP and has for the last thirty years. To pretend like this is small potatoes is just ignorant to the facts. A snippet from Investopedia.com ”The World Bank reported a spurt in China’s economic growth in 2017 for the first time since 2010, mainly driven by a cyclical rebound in global trade. It projects a growth of 6.6% in 2018 which would sober down to around 5.5% by 2023. Over the years, the difference in the size of the Chinese and the U.S. economy has been shrinking rapidly. In 2017, the Chinese GDP in nominal terms stood at $12.01 trillion, lower than the U.S. by $7.37 trillion. In 2018, the gap is expected to reduce to $6.32 trillion and by 2023 the difference would be of $2.96 trillion. In terms of GDP in PPP, China is the largest economy with a GDP (PPP) of $23.15 trillion. By 2023, China GDP (PPP) would be $37.06 trillion. China’s huge population brings down its GDP per capita to $8,643.11 (seventy-second position).” Besides, everything you just stated contradicts your “The US could do it all ourselves” statement you made earlier. You can’t sit on both sides of the fence where that is concerned. Yes, we know China has bent some rules but guess what? So have we! This is not news nor will it change a damn thing by implementing tariffs, which is the original subject of the thread to begin with. History has shown tariffs and protectionism policies to be a huge failures. See the 1930s if you have any doubts about that because Trump is reading from that outdated playbook. All the number shell games you just played do not change that fact. And remember folks. All this “buy America” propaganda was typed and posted on devices NOT made in the US.

And add this. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/donald-trumps-13-biggest-business-failures-59556/amp/

You have a point but it still flies in the face of Trump of being this super smart business man when he is average at best and sure as hell not some kind of “extremely stable genius”. I also refer to his other failures like his vodka venture that flopped fantastically despite the normal Trumpian fanfare. The man can’t even get US banks to front him money anymore. It’s why he owes China a crap ton of money. https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/302216-how-much-money-does-the-trump-organization-owe%3famp

My bad. Lost count at four lol! Let me say this again. The man couldn’t sell VODKA and couldn’t keep multiple casinos open! Those are two things that this country loves more than anything yet he couldn’t figure out how to make money on it. Booze and gambling!

I try to be reasonable but in a nutshell.

Sorry it took a few minutes of laughter wearing off before I could respond. I never made any assumptions about you so your little “I don’t care what you think of me” rings a bit hollow. I hear Trump University offers a great education with a great “How to negotiate and kiss the asses of North Korean dictators” program. That’s what I think of him and your “best president” remark. Just LMAO over here!

And that is why you fail. I am not “anti-trump”. I’m anti-idiot. Obama was one more times than I can count but Trump has taken it to a whole other level. Sorry you can’t accept facts so much that you have to make assumptions about the folks who dare to put out valid criticisms of Trumps policies. I suggest growing up and getting over your delicate snowflake feelings towards this and actually listen to what people are saying instead of what you think they’re saying. You might actually learn something. Not going to keep this going yet you made another snide post right after this post. Your piece is clearly worth jack squat apparently. If you want to left out of it, maybe you should just stop coming to this thread and voting however you please since you’ve said your piece. Just save those great thoughts for future EV threads.

So nothing to offer towards the conversation at hand @ocnblu but you sure find time to down vote the truth. Honestly, it’s pretty pathetic and childish at this point but then again Trump supporters tend to reveal themselves as the true snowflakes of the world.

What I find hilarious is that you have some folks talking about the spending issues with our social programs yet they are eerily silent when it comes to biggest piece of the US budget pie. Free Trade is idealism yet the “orange man” is trying to get that very thing passed through Congress this fall via the USMCA. You can’t support his stand on tariffs and support his notion of free trade at the same time yet you seem content to put both into the hands of one man. And let me say this again. Idealism aside (and that is exactly what you are talking about), this country cannot compete with a 1.5 billion person labor force, and damn sure not with tariffs. They can and will get it from somewhere else. Ask Brazil and their soybean industry how much they love the extra business they have picked up from China. That’s where your “we can make everything” argument falls apart because so can a host of other countries. We are not unique in this regard.

“Orange man understands it”. You mean the four time bankrupt, won’t release his taxes, couldn’t even sell vodka, the head of the defunct Trump University, the most transparent person on the planet, orange man? That’s the man you’re talking about? Sorry but I can’t even begin to take that seriously if you think he is the answer to our problems.

We have all we need huh? All but the 1.5 billion person labor force and half of the rare earth metals for starters. It is a novel though but we won’t ever self supply everything we need. Never have and it won’t start today, end of story. And please list these social “entitlements” you speak of. Things like social security and Medicare are not entitlements and folks on the right need to stop calling it that. We paid into it so it is not an “entitlement”, plain and simple. And if you want to get into the welfare side of it, feel free. Between my wife and myself, we worked nine years at AZDES (Arizona’s welfare department). There are so many myths about it, that I don’t think I could fit it all on this site. Seems like some folks need a lesson in idealism vs. realism.

Sure. I’ll do that as soon as it costs $100 to buy a new car lol!

Was Elon holding a water bong when he said that?

Tariffs implemented with China in the last year have increased our deficit with them. Tariffs are not the answer because no matter how much you tariff, we will never be able to compete with the cheap labor of China and many other countries. Innovation and creating new industry are the first steps in increasing our exports to others without the need of growth constricting tariffs. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/story/2019/03/06/us-china-trade-deficit-record-1242498 To further illustrate how just implementing tariffs is an oversimplification that ignores far bigger problems. https://www.econlib.org/tariffs-and-the-trade-deficit/

These downvotes and laugh emojis seems to back up that assessment lol. All bluster, no substance. ?

Here’s what I know in regards to discussing politics. For eight years under Obama, I was criticized left and right over my displeasure with some of his policies (if only one could view the old MT forum archives). Now I catch hell for criticizing Trump. Both sides need to get the hell over it, if you ask me but I have noticed that the Trump camp seems to have a much tougher time accepting that than the old Obama camp. Just my observation.

My neighbor has the Compass with the nine speed. It’s a nice looking ride but they gripe about the acceleration and gas mileage, which seems to be a common theme. They do like the way it rides and the dark gray color shows very well.