surreal1272

Sorry Drew. I couldn't help myself with that one.

I think Balth and I are in agreement. I think one maybe two additional CUVs/SUVs for Cadillac at most... but not a Benz-like 5 or 6. Benz has 6 SUV/CUVs today.. and a 7th since they seem to count the E-Class wagon in their crossovers, with apparently CUV variants waiting in the wings. Cadillac doesn't need that many. I could see an X3 sized competitor and maybe something between XT5 and Escalade... but anything below X3/GLC should be handled (and is handled) by Buick. Cadillac doesn't need to be the next purveyor of fake Louis Vuitton bags like Benz and Audi have become. Cadillac also does not need sales dogs like the GLE Coupe and X6 just to satisfy armchair CEOs with a penchant for comparing every number to Benz. The Cadillac ELR is dead. What Cadillac needs to do now with its car lineup is expand the number of body styles in the existing lines. There needs to be a CTS Coupe and Wagon again. There need to be multiple convertibles. There should be a coupe/convertible CT6. All three of their newest sedans need to be offered in coupe and convertible format... period. We already know the XTS is dead man walking, so I'm not counting that for anything. Next you'll tell me that Cadillac needs a minivan to compete with the Mercedes Benz Metris. Pointless as nothing competes with a Metris. Sure there is... the smaller Ford Transits, the Ram Promaster, the GMC/Chevy work vans, Nissan NV... all in the same price class and similar capability. The Metris cannot be associated with those inferior brands since Mercedes does not compete with them. That's what I heard from an insider with the company anyway.

I think Balth and I are in agreement. I think one maybe two additional CUVs/SUVs for Cadillac at most... but not a Benz-like 5 or 6. Benz has 6 SUV/CUVs today.. and a 7th since they seem to count the E-Class wagon in their crossovers, with apparently CUV variants waiting in the wings. Cadillac doesn't need that many. I could see an X3 sized competitor and maybe something between XT5 and Escalade... but anything below X3/GLC should be handled (and is handled) by Buick. Cadillac doesn't need to be the next purveyor of fake Louis Vuitton bags like Benz and Audi have become. Cadillac also does not need sales dogs like the GLE Coupe and X6 just to satisfy armchair CEOs with a penchant for comparing every number to Benz. The Cadillac ELR is dead. What Cadillac needs to do now with its car lineup is expand the number of body styles in the existing lines. There needs to be a CTS Coupe and Wagon again. There need to be multiple convertibles. There should be a coupe/convertible CT6. All three of their newest sedans need to be offered in coupe and convertible format... period. We already know the XTS is dead man walking, so I'm not counting that for anything. Next you'll tell me that Cadillac needs a minivan to compete with the Mercedes Benz Metris. Pointless as nothing competes with a Metris.

No, Cadillac does not. Mercedes does because they have to cover the entire market with a single brand, that's why they've been moving into Buick/GMC (and GMC/Chevy Commercial) territory lately. Cadillac can be more exclusive and selective with their vehicle offerings. We have heard that for years, and Cadillac isn't moving up market. The XT5 is priced lower than the SRX was 10 years ago. The CTS, XTS, ATS, XT5 are are under $46k starting, even the CT6 which was supposed to be $75-100k range they started at $54k. The push up isn't happening, otherwise XT5 would base at $54k and to up to $100k with options like the BMW X5 does. The Buick Lacrosse was going to move up market to Lexus ES pricing but instead a V6 Lacrosse is $2,000 cheaper than an Avalon. And I don't think Buick is a luxury brand so they shouldn't raise their prices. $25-45k is Buick country, no reason to go above that. Just because you've "heard it for years", doesn't make it any less true. That's what you can't seem to comprehend here. Oh and if $25-45k is Buick country, then why is Mercedes selling in the same country? Oh please show us where the CT6 was supposed to be $75-100K. Just sounds like more hyperbole BS to try and slam Cadillac while it is Mercedes that has dipped into the Buick market by selling the CLA, that (again) was beaten by a Regal.

What is wrong with niche segments? Mercedes is not the only one who can pull that off (looking at you AMG and E Class Wagon). You realize that right? Nothing is wrong with a Niche segment. But if your brand is built on "quiet luxury" you don't try to sell a hot hatch with a high revving turbo 4. That would be like Mini saying they want to introduce a full size sedan with a bench seat, so they can exploit a niche. There should be a Cruze RS hatch to compete with the Focus and Golf. You keep throwing that term around like it is supposed to mean that Buick has no other options. It would not hurt their branding one damn bit to do just that (in regards to a hot hatch for example). Me? Just give me a pure GNX replacement, two door only please.

No room to explain all the wrongs in that post. Every bit of what you just said can be applied to just about every auto maker out there, including Benz. Please tell me you are not this blind.

What is wrong with niche segments? Mercedes is not the only one who can pull that off (looking at you AMG and E Class Wagon). You realize that right?

Buick does compete on the lower end of the luxury segment. You want me to reference that Buick beating out a Mercedes most recently? Cadillac needs more CUVs. It does not need five for reasons already explained to certain Mercedes Benz fanboys.

So the more than $100K BMW i8 is a "sub brand"?Whatever you say. 'sub brand' has nothing to do with price...it simply means brand-within-a-brand. BMW's i and M ranges fit that definition, as does M-B's AMG and Maybach ranges. Same with Cadillac and V-series, Chrysler and SRT, Ford and SVT/ST, etc..They are sold at BMW dealerships and are BMWs so I think the term "sub-brand" is a huge misnomer.I would say the same thing for the other brands as well. I don't feel that is the right term for it anyway but maybe that's just me. It is the right term. Again, merely stating my opinion that it is a misused term in this case. I view those more as a brand extension. Also, my mention of price was meant as a tongue in cheek response to SMKs assertion that Benz won't go that route, even that is exactly what it is looking like.

So the more than $100K BMW i8 is a "sub brand"?Whatever you say. 'sub brand' has nothing to do with price...it simply means brand-within-a-brand. BMW's i and M ranges fit that definition, as does M-B's AMG and Maybach ranges. Same with Cadillac and V-series, Chrysler and SRT, Ford and SVT/ST, etc..They are sold at BMW dealerships and are BMWs so I think the term "sub-brand" is a huge misnomer.I would say the same thing for the other brands as well. I don't feel that is the right term for it anyway but maybe that's just me.

Been telling him this for months but he willfully ignores this everytime, hence his continued path towards trolling ignorance.

Go ahead. Compare a Buick to a Mercedes one more time. Oh and it most certainly IS an entry level car, hence being placed in the entry level position once occupied by the C-Class. Got to get that Buick buyer somehow right?

One day you will understand how ignorant your post truly was. BTW, this was bean counting, as well going after the bottom feeder market. mercedes-benz-cla-breakthroughs-large-10.jpg WOW If that does not show MB has joined the rank n file of the Ford, Dodge, Toyota and Chevy buyers, I have no Idea what does. Clearly MB is NOT the Luxury Auto Maker any longer but a mass market machine living off their legacy of past desire to be different than everyone else. Now they are just a Mass Produced Jelly Bean Company of Auto's. Yeah, since they don't make full size V12 luxury sedans, coupes, or luxury convertibles, such as these. So what? That is what is expected of Benz, not putting out sub-$30K cars to the "wannabe" crowd.

One day you will understand how ignorant your post truly was. BTW, this was bean counting, as well going after the bottom feeder market.

So what we get from Sauve here is GM can't to anything to make their product better and if they try then it will just suck anyway versus the competition. Also, how dare MT focus on the biggest carmaker in the world to see what plans they have for weight savings. They obviously should have talked about what everyone was doing so that's it's fair for everyone else. How dare them. </sarcasm>. Funny how I don't seem to recall this level of bitching when MT dedicated multiple articles to Fords aluminum process even they are not the only ones to have used aluminum.

Because 99.99999% of new car buyers want a CUV. Except for Mercedes buyers right? Or else that just makes it yet another silly number you just pulled out of thin air.

So it's, once again, your opinion that it is an opinion piece. Thanks for confirming that and a few other things.

So what Suave? It does not diminish what GM is trying to do anymore than it does Ford with their aluminum strategy. Don't know why you have to get so bent out of shape over this. Just because you feel that way doesn't make it so yet you continue to pass yourself off as the be all end all in these types of discussions.

It is not comparable when you only tell part of the story, the very same thing you criticized MT for here.

That's the problem with assumptions. It wasn't Reg. I did it because I felt it was way off base in places.

Funny how you cherry picked the heavier model of the CT6 when it starts at 3647lbs while the XJ starts at 3891lbs. Just keeping things in perspective while you wander off in that post of yours.

Most of those comments came from one particular troll named "Cali". At least half were by that imbecile. BTW, what in the world are you babbling about?

Interesting how you only focus on the 500+ HP rather than admit that MB will also produce some best effort at that cause their basic engine will start at 75kW or 101HP which is half of what the Chevy BOLT will be which is 150kW or 200HP. It's the tasty Mercedes Benz Kool Aid that does it.

It's Mercedes. The naming problems of others do not apply to them. They were the first to create a one letter car and are above all criticisms of such things. They haven't even named it yet, or said exactly what these will be. One can speculate they are going right after Tesla though. Maybe they will make the E-wagen. Perhaps an E-wing with gullwing doors.The good thing about Mercedes is huge R&D budget and they aren't constrained as to what they can build or how many models they can have. A lot of the cars share drive trains and they only have like 4 platforms (not counting G-wagen) that they build a lot of variants off of. While the other guys talk about it, or show concept cars, Mercedes builds dream cars. And yet again, you don't get it. That breeze you felt over your head was the joke that flew by it. Of course, maybe it wasn't really a joke. Btw, do you want me to repost those pictures of those "dream cars" Mercedes didn't build because they are no damn different from any other automaker in that regard? Good grief. You must love Kool Aid.

It's Mercedes. The naming problems of others do not apply to them. They were the first to create a one letter car and are above all criticisms of such things.