surreal1272

Whether they are production shots or not is irrelevant as they are all done that way (referring to the three I posted). Again, they rest of what you are saying is purely opinion based while you try to pas it off as fact. But it does get beaten in luxury. Whether by the slimmest of margins in the base S550 versus the designo interior option that elevates the S-Class. Wait... didn't you just bang on someone for using a rendered picture? I couldn't find what I thought looked exactly like the configurator Drew. So I'm not sure that's the base model that you have posted. Everywhere else the CT6 is top notch. The car is truly engineered as a proper Cadillac. On quick visit to MBs site confirms this is base trim. Also, you say you have the media as your evidence. Guess Drew doesn't count?

Tells me to post live shots and then immediately posts another "produced" shot. Why even bother having a discussion with you? Wait... didn't you just bang on someone for using a rendered picture? He sure did. My friend irony got a good laugh out of it.

Whether they are production shots or not is irrelevant as they are all done that way (referring to the three I posted). Again, they rest of what you are saying is purely opinion based while you try to pas it off as fact.

What verifiable fact? The only one who has been saying that it doesn't has been you. Also, if you had actually paid attention to the very first post comparing the two, you would have seen that they were referring to a base model S Class versus a platinum CT6, of which the latter DOES compare to. Not saying it is better but to act like it doesn't compare on some level because you say it doesnt, does not mean it is true. That is what you are not getting here.

Oops. Posted the Slade by mistake. Here we go.

I'm just going to leave this right here.

How well engineered was the Ciel?? The ElMiraj?? At what point was it not made clear that they were both styling exercises to usher in .. well new styling? The Ciel is the concept car of what the CT6, XT5, Escalade.. and CTS, f would look like, sans the convertible top. The ElMiraj is the next phase.. unless the new head of Global Design changes something. AND HOLD THE f@#k UP!!! Are U telling me that U believe that the S550.. because that's what I've been saying all along (not the S63 or S65) has an interior on par with the RR Ghost.. or the Bentley Continental??? Have U ever been in any of the three.. in recent years??? Dude.. just I'm done Those aren't my words, they're from the auto media that gets to spend time in all those vehicles. No, it doesn't beat them. But it's sure as hell closer to them, than the Cadillac is closer to it. And no one gives two $h!s on what platform or how well engineered those cars would have been if that kind of exacting styling, save for the fancy concept headlights were production vehicles. An El Miraj sedan would be beautiful, and worthy of being priced into the stratosphere. And now such a vehicle is up in the wind. Look, here's an example. Lexus had that coupe concept, and the production vehicle looks exactly like it, except the interior is closer to reality, but still off the charts in terms of how it reproduces the vision of the concept. Why couldn't Cadillac wait just a bit longer to get there? It's not like anyone will beat Cadillac on lightweighting anytime soon. The 7 Series has to use carbon fibre, and it still can't match the CT6. While you're here spitting venom about the CT6, I can only see the blatant double standard in your arguments. If you don't believe me, please reference your endless defense in the Continental thread while giving everyone else hell who dared to criticize it.Just saying. What goes around truly comes around. I still like the CT6 way more than the Conti. Besides, I still believe that handling at the limit is the last priority of anyone buying a large sedan. Especially Cadillac large sedans, given the vast history and most recently the XTS. And the Conti is a wallflower against an S-Class. There is no double standard. I wasn't giving hell. I was trying to coax a reasonable argument as to why anyone should care about driving dynamics in such large as hell sedans. From a luxury only standpoint, it's just a non-factor. And then if some GM fans started saying suddenly the CT6 is actually competitive interior-wise against the S-Class, they're patently wrong. Heck, ccap mentioned the comment how the CT6 is not going to match up to an S-Class. Which is what I'm trying to get inside the head of the staunch GM fan. Go ahead, rail against the Conti how it's not a sports sedan, something that Lincoln mentioned 5 months ago. Sorry but after reading through your posts on this thread, I see nothing "reasonable" in most of your arguments. More like lashing out (and this was before Casas insults).Btw, that last bit about the Conti proves my point.

How well engineered was the Ciel?? The ElMiraj?? At what point was it not made clear that they were both styling exercises to usher in .. well new styling? The Ciel is the concept car of what the CT6, XT5, Escalade.. and CTS, f would look like, sans the convertible top. The ElMiraj is the next phase.. unless the new head of Global Design changes something. AND HOLD THE f@#k UP!!! Are U telling me that U believe that the S550.. because that's what I've been saying all along (not the S63 or S65) has an interior on par with the RR Ghost.. or the Bentley Continental??? Have U ever been in any of the three.. in recent years??? Dude.. just I'm done Those aren't my words, they're from the auto media that gets to spend time in all those vehicles. No, it doesn't beat them. But it's sure as hell closer to them, than the Cadillac is closer to it. And no one gives two $h!s on what platform or how well engineered those cars would have been if that kind of exacting styling, save for the fancy concept headlights were production vehicles. An El Miraj sedan would be beautiful, and worthy of being priced into the stratosphere. And now such a vehicle is up in the wind. Look, here's an example. Lexus had that coupe concept, and the production vehicle looks exactly like it, except the interior is closer to reality, but still off the charts in terms of how it reproduces the vision of the concept. Why couldn't Cadillac wait just a bit longer to get there? It's not like anyone will beat Cadillac on lightweighting anytime soon. The 7 Series has to use carbon fibre, and it still can't match the CT6. While you're here spitting venom about the CT6, I can only see the blatant double standard in your arguments. If you don't believe me, please reference your endless defense in the Continental thread while giving everyone else hell who dared to criticize it. Just saying. What goes around truly comes around.

Marchionne floats an idea.

Agreed although this clearly was not intended as a political post as much as was a bait post.

And? So this means what? BTW, the answer is "nothing" because no one gives two $h!s about what Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei thinks. Obvious cheap shot is obvious and not very random. One could say Ayatollah Ali Khamenie comments are a cheap shot Yes they could and should. They could also say that this information was not worth anyone's time in the first place and really not worth spreading around the internet but hey, some folks have to do what they do. I've always found it humorous and a bit confusing when one says not worth " anyone's time " yet they initially comment on it, and then keep commenting. And I find it humorous when someone casts obvious bait and then acts like it is no big deal. Yes, I fell for your bait and told you why it was bait. Again, obvious bait post was obvious and should have never been posted in the first damn place. Comprehension is the key to understanding the fallacy of your initial bait post and follow up bait responses. Moving on with the random...

And? So this means what? BTW, the answer is "nothing" because no one gives two $h!s about what Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei thinks. Obvious cheap shot is obvious and not very random. One could say Ayatollah Ali Khamenie comments are a cheap shot Yes they could and should. They could also say that this information was not worth anyone's time in the first place and really not worth spreading around the internet but hey, some folks have to do what they do.

And the total among those five V12 will total less than it is worth bothering with. In other words, the only one who gives a crap about V12s is you and the 500 other people in this country of 300,000,000.

Another potential Marchionne massacre. What a colossal idiot!

And? So this means what? BTW, the answer is "nothing" because no one gives two $h!s about what Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei thinks. Obvious cheap shot is obvious and not very random.

And? Seriously? Is dead horse your favorite meal? You've certainly gotten the tenderizing part down pat. Man, you missed a good opportunity to use this! Damn it! Should have searched through the emoticon files for that one!

Hah! No they didn't. Again Benz trying to take credit for inventing something they didn't (Like saying they invented the car, or Airbags, or ABS) Try 2002 from Saturn or 1999 if you count the 3-door SC. And 1978 from Oldsmobile Good point on the Saturn coupe, always liked those suicide doors. The Mazda RX-8 had a similar set up. The CLS was still the trend setter that the rest followed. But if you ask Google who invented the car, the response is Karl Benz. Just stop this nonsense. You can't be a "trendsetter" if you were not the first to do it.

Maybe you missed the part where they said it "looked" fake (and it does but I feel that way about most wood trimmed interiors). I have always been a fan of the 2nd gen CTS interiors. I do not get the gripes (after spending some time in a 2012 3.6L recently). Love that it looked like nothing else at the time and had a very driver centric feel to it. Tis why I want the wagon variant (yes I know I'm a wagon weirdo).

Why would U compare the LaX with the ATS anyway? The LaX should be viewed as a step down from the CTS. The ATS more in line with the Regal or even Verano in terms of steps. Because he seems to think that anyone with $40k to spend is going to go the same direction he is... that RWD trumps everything else including size, or that someone looking for the size and comfort of a Lacrosse is going to downsize in to a really small CLA because glowing-pointy-star. Do people not read? I would prefer an ATS over a LaCrosee, but I prefer performance over length and interior dimensions. I said you can argue one over the other. If your view of luxury is leg room and a soft ride and some tech gadgets, you may want a Kia Cadenza or similar. Different strokes for different folks. "Do you not read?" The same thing could be said for you across this entire site.

Oh and show me ONE CUV under 5000lbs with a V12 and then explain, in depth, why Cadillac has to do that. That is your problem. You want Cadillac to do these things yet can't give one realistic compelling argument as to how to make that happen. You just throw out these imaginary engines (that GM does not have or need) and imaginary weight classes like it is the be all end all and that failure to adhere to your imaginary BS is a failure on GM and Cadillac. This is why no one here takes you seriously (between that and your utter Mercedes loving blindness).

You don't understand simple economics and scale do you? Why would GM, who has not one V12 in their stable, develop, market, and sell a vehicle for less than 1% of 1% of the luxury buying population? That is literally the dumbest thing you can possibly say if you think that is even remotely a good idea.

Thus supporting my statement about a fool and his money. Thanks for confirming that.

So what? We are not talking about super cars. We are talking about overpriced CUVs and SUVs. Maybe you missed that part of the argument. The only reason companies like Bentley offer V12s is to justify the huge mass they have to power. It's not rocket science we are talking about here.

Your information, as usual, is erroneous. BMW V-12 : 592 HP / 590 TRQ Cadillac V : 640 HP / 630 TRQ Already puts the smack down on the V-12, with a half-liter less displacement & 4 less cylinders. And no smoothness penalty. BMW's 12 needs a major overhaul. I think I read some rumor where BMW might up the power of the V12, as Rolls Royce will use it too. But if it is the 592 of the 760 which it probably will be, that engine does make peak torque at 1,500 rpm, which is really low. The CTS-V makes peak torque at 3,600. Regardless though, it is physically impossible to make a V8 as smooth as a V12 or an inline six for that matter. The V12 is the smoothest engine configuration. Dude U really should take a spin in the new CTS-V in Touring Mode just to understand how wrong U are. Take a rich guy with U.. cause they don't just allow test drives for the sake of doing it. While I won't claim that the LT4 is as smooth as the BMW V12, my reason for doing so is confined to the fact that I haven't tested them back to back. In driving a 760i I won;t lie.. I was certainly impressed with the NVH and power delivery.. but after driving the CTS-V for going on 3 months... I truly believe that Cadillac should forego the intro of the TTV8 they are planing and simply use the LT series engines, re-branded, as their choice of V8 But a CTS is a mid-size sedan. We are talking about a full size SUV with the X7. Put the CTS-V engine in an Escalade ESV that is 6,000 lbs and it is a different result. The engine would be working harder just in every day driving, more noise, more fuel burn. But at the same time I don't think the people buying a Supercharged V8 Escalade would care if it was noisy or 10 mpg thirsty. I also feel like the argument of "a turbo/super charged V8 is a good as a V12" is an argument made by companies without a V12. It is like when Lincoln tried to claim and Ecoboost V6 was better than the other luxury brands V8s. Lincoln had to say that since they didn't have a V8 sedan. The V12 just goes into the highest stratosphere of cars, it is the ultimate. As far as LT V8 vs a new line V8, that is a valid argument, since it is V8 vs V8. Then it is just personal preference of the engineering behind it and the power delivery of the two. A V12 doesn't mean jack squat in this day and age, especially when there are V8s with more horsepower and torque. A V12 is nothing but a word used to sell to fools who love to part with their money. Put a hi-po V8 in there and leave the V12 badges on it and most of those people would not be able to even tell the difference.

So the only reason why one should write about cars is so people can seek their advice and if they're not going to give said advice, then they shouldn't even bother writing? That's certainly news to me and makes zero sense. Why don't you join C&G guest car shopper? Great discussions to be had here!