surreal1272

It needs It needs It needs What it needs is virtually nothing you are suggesting.

Everyone here already knew the CLA wasn't the best, especially when it got beat by a Buick in the most recent comparo of the two. "The best" Now that's rich!

Maybe you will stop pulling asinine comments out of your posterior just because this is not about Mercedes.

The CTS once started at $29,900. CLA with destination is now $33k, what it was in the past doesn't really matter today. And yes they do want to play in the low end of the luxury market because they want to win in every segment. Just like they won the Monaco Grand Prix on Sunday, and the AMG GT3 had a historic victory 1-2-3-4 finish at the 24 hours of the Nurburgring over the weekend, leaving BMW, Audi, Bentley and Porsche in the dust. We are not talking about a 13 year old CTS. We are talking about a $29K Mercedes sold two years ago that is the EXACT same car as the one they are asking more money for now so don't try to come off like they are not trying to compete with Buick and Lincoln with cars like that and then backpedal and say $h! like you just said in your last post. So at least you have finally confirmed what you have long denied. The CLA is a Buick/Lincoln competitor so you said they are trying to compete in the lower end market now.

I think Balth and I are in agreement. I think one maybe two additional CUVs/SUVs for Cadillac at most... but not a Benz-like 5 or 6. Benz has 6 SUV/CUVs today.. and a 7th since they seem to count the E-Class wagon in their crossovers, with apparently CUV variants waiting in the wings. Cadillac doesn't need that many. I could see an X3 sized competitor and maybe something between XT5 and Escalade... but anything below X3/GLC should be handled (and is handled) by Buick. Cadillac doesn't need to be the next purveyor of fake Louis Vuitton bags like Benz and Audi have become. Cadillac also does not need sales dogs like the GLE Coupe and X6 just to satisfy armchair CEOs with a penchant for comparing every number to Benz. The Cadillac ELR is dead. What Cadillac needs to do now with its car lineup is expand the number of body styles in the existing lines. There needs to be a CTS Coupe and Wagon again. There need to be multiple convertibles. There should be a coupe/convertible CT6. All three of their newest sedans need to be offered in coupe and convertible format... period. We already know the XTS is dead man walking, so I'm not counting that for anything. Next you'll tell me that Cadillac needs a minivan to compete with the Mercedes Benz Metris. Pointless as nothing competes with a Metris. Sure there is... the smaller Ford Transits, the Ram Promaster, the GMC/Chevy work vans, Nissan NV... all in the same price class and similar capability. The Metris is bigger than all of them, it is closer in size to a Sienna or Odyssey. Thus it is the only mid-size commercial van for sale in the USA (I think the Ram C/V is dead or about to be) and it has the same engine and transmission you get in a C-class, so performance is no doubt top notch.Wrong again.. Oh and let's not forget this, V8 and all RAM and Nissan both have vans that size as well. Funny how you only try to single out the small vans to prove whatever point it is that you are trying to prove. Anything else you want to be proven wrong on today SMK?

No, Cadillac does not. Mercedes does because they have to cover the entire market with a single brand, that's why they've been moving into Buick/GMC (and GMC/Chevy Commercial) territory lately. Cadillac can be more exclusive and selective with their vehicle offerings. We have heard that for years, and Cadillac isn't moving up market. The XT5 is priced lower than the SRX was 10 years ago. The CTS, XTS, ATS, XT5 are are under $46k starting, even the CT6 which was supposed to be $75-100k range they started at $54k. The push up isn't happening, otherwise XT5 would base at $54k and to up to $100k with options like the BMW X5 does. The Buick Lacrosse was going to move up market to Lexus ES pricing but instead a V6 Lacrosse is $2,000 cheaper than an Avalon. And I don't think Buick is a luxury brand so they shouldn't raise their prices. $25-45k is Buick country, no reason to go above that. Just because you've "heard it for years", doesn't make it any less true. That's what you can't seem to comprehend here. Oh and if $25-45k is Buick country, then why is Mercedes selling in the same country? Oh please show us where the CT6 was supposed to be $75-100K. Just sounds like more hyperbole BS to try and slam Cadillac while it is Mercedes that has dipped into the Buick market by selling the CLA, that (again) was beaten by a Regal. $33,000 to $252,000 is Mercedes country and they own a lot of real estate in between. Back in 2010-2013 there was talk of a DT7, and then LTS, both which would have 425 hp turbo V6 standard to take on the likes of the S-class, 7-series, A8. Ed Whitacre in 2010 green lighted a rear drive Cadillac flagship, I think that was to be on Zeta at the time, and V8 powered, but that car never showed up either. They have been talking about a V8 sedan for nearly a decade, yet no V8 full size sedan. We got CT6 instead. Wrong answer. The CLA started at $29K (please reference original ad), making it a Buick competitor. Debate and sugarcoat that all you want but that is the truth. Clearly Mercedes wants to play in the lower end market. Oh and if you don't understand why some of those particular vehicles were not released, being that they were still coming out of bankruptcy at the time, then you are as clueless as ever.

Sorry Drew. I couldn't help myself with that one.

I think Balth and I are in agreement. I think one maybe two additional CUVs/SUVs for Cadillac at most... but not a Benz-like 5 or 6. Benz has 6 SUV/CUVs today.. and a 7th since they seem to count the E-Class wagon in their crossovers, with apparently CUV variants waiting in the wings. Cadillac doesn't need that many. I could see an X3 sized competitor and maybe something between XT5 and Escalade... but anything below X3/GLC should be handled (and is handled) by Buick. Cadillac doesn't need to be the next purveyor of fake Louis Vuitton bags like Benz and Audi have become. Cadillac also does not need sales dogs like the GLE Coupe and X6 just to satisfy armchair CEOs with a penchant for comparing every number to Benz. The Cadillac ELR is dead. What Cadillac needs to do now with its car lineup is expand the number of body styles in the existing lines. There needs to be a CTS Coupe and Wagon again. There need to be multiple convertibles. There should be a coupe/convertible CT6. All three of their newest sedans need to be offered in coupe and convertible format... period. We already know the XTS is dead man walking, so I'm not counting that for anything. Next you'll tell me that Cadillac needs a minivan to compete with the Mercedes Benz Metris. Pointless as nothing competes with a Metris. Sure there is... the smaller Ford Transits, the Ram Promaster, the GMC/Chevy work vans, Nissan NV... all in the same price class and similar capability. The Metris cannot be associated with those inferior brands since Mercedes does not compete with them. That's what I heard from an insider with the company anyway.

I think Balth and I are in agreement. I think one maybe two additional CUVs/SUVs for Cadillac at most... but not a Benz-like 5 or 6. Benz has 6 SUV/CUVs today.. and a 7th since they seem to count the E-Class wagon in their crossovers, with apparently CUV variants waiting in the wings. Cadillac doesn't need that many. I could see an X3 sized competitor and maybe something between XT5 and Escalade... but anything below X3/GLC should be handled (and is handled) by Buick. Cadillac doesn't need to be the next purveyor of fake Louis Vuitton bags like Benz and Audi have become. Cadillac also does not need sales dogs like the GLE Coupe and X6 just to satisfy armchair CEOs with a penchant for comparing every number to Benz. The Cadillac ELR is dead. What Cadillac needs to do now with its car lineup is expand the number of body styles in the existing lines. There needs to be a CTS Coupe and Wagon again. There need to be multiple convertibles. There should be a coupe/convertible CT6. All three of their newest sedans need to be offered in coupe and convertible format... period. We already know the XTS is dead man walking, so I'm not counting that for anything. Next you'll tell me that Cadillac needs a minivan to compete with the Mercedes Benz Metris. Pointless as nothing competes with a Metris.

No, Cadillac does not. Mercedes does because they have to cover the entire market with a single brand, that's why they've been moving into Buick/GMC (and GMC/Chevy Commercial) territory lately. Cadillac can be more exclusive and selective with their vehicle offerings. We have heard that for years, and Cadillac isn't moving up market. The XT5 is priced lower than the SRX was 10 years ago. The CTS, XTS, ATS, XT5 are are under $46k starting, even the CT6 which was supposed to be $75-100k range they started at $54k. The push up isn't happening, otherwise XT5 would base at $54k and to up to $100k with options like the BMW X5 does. The Buick Lacrosse was going to move up market to Lexus ES pricing but instead a V6 Lacrosse is $2,000 cheaper than an Avalon. And I don't think Buick is a luxury brand so they shouldn't raise their prices. $25-45k is Buick country, no reason to go above that. Just because you've "heard it for years", doesn't make it any less true. That's what you can't seem to comprehend here. Oh and if $25-45k is Buick country, then why is Mercedes selling in the same country? Oh please show us where the CT6 was supposed to be $75-100K. Just sounds like more hyperbole BS to try and slam Cadillac while it is Mercedes that has dipped into the Buick market by selling the CLA, that (again) was beaten by a Regal.

What is wrong with niche segments? Mercedes is not the only one who can pull that off (looking at you AMG and E Class Wagon). You realize that right? Nothing is wrong with a Niche segment. But if your brand is built on "quiet luxury" you don't try to sell a hot hatch with a high revving turbo 4. That would be like Mini saying they want to introduce a full size sedan with a bench seat, so they can exploit a niche. There should be a Cruze RS hatch to compete with the Focus and Golf. You keep throwing that term around like it is supposed to mean that Buick has no other options. It would not hurt their branding one damn bit to do just that (in regards to a hot hatch for example). Me? Just give me a pure GNX replacement, two door only please.

No room to explain all the wrongs in that post. Every bit of what you just said can be applied to just about every auto maker out there, including Benz. Please tell me you are not this blind.

What is wrong with niche segments? Mercedes is not the only one who can pull that off (looking at you AMG and E Class Wagon). You realize that right?

Buick does compete on the lower end of the luxury segment. You want me to reference that Buick beating out a Mercedes most recently? Cadillac needs more CUVs. It does not need five for reasons already explained to certain Mercedes Benz fanboys.

So the more than $100K BMW i8 is a "sub brand"?Whatever you say. 'sub brand' has nothing to do with price...it simply means brand-within-a-brand. BMW's i and M ranges fit that definition, as does M-B's AMG and Maybach ranges. Same with Cadillac and V-series, Chrysler and SRT, Ford and SVT/ST, etc..They are sold at BMW dealerships and are BMWs so I think the term "sub-brand" is a huge misnomer.I would say the same thing for the other brands as well. I don't feel that is the right term for it anyway but maybe that's just me. It is the right term. Again, merely stating my opinion that it is a misused term in this case. I view those more as a brand extension. Also, my mention of price was meant as a tongue in cheek response to SMKs assertion that Benz won't go that route, even that is exactly what it is looking like.

So the more than $100K BMW i8 is a "sub brand"?Whatever you say. 'sub brand' has nothing to do with price...it simply means brand-within-a-brand. BMW's i and M ranges fit that definition, as does M-B's AMG and Maybach ranges. Same with Cadillac and V-series, Chrysler and SRT, Ford and SVT/ST, etc..They are sold at BMW dealerships and are BMWs so I think the term "sub-brand" is a huge misnomer.I would say the same thing for the other brands as well. I don't feel that is the right term for it anyway but maybe that's just me.

Been telling him this for months but he willfully ignores this everytime, hence his continued path towards trolling ignorance.

Go ahead. Compare a Buick to a Mercedes one more time. Oh and it most certainly IS an entry level car, hence being placed in the entry level position once occupied by the C-Class. Got to get that Buick buyer somehow right?

One day you will understand how ignorant your post truly was. BTW, this was bean counting, as well going after the bottom feeder market. mercedes-benz-cla-breakthroughs-large-10.jpg WOW If that does not show MB has joined the rank n file of the Ford, Dodge, Toyota and Chevy buyers, I have no Idea what does. Clearly MB is NOT the Luxury Auto Maker any longer but a mass market machine living off their legacy of past desire to be different than everyone else. Now they are just a Mass Produced Jelly Bean Company of Auto's. Yeah, since they don't make full size V12 luxury sedans, coupes, or luxury convertibles, such as these. So what? That is what is expected of Benz, not putting out sub-$30K cars to the "wannabe" crowd.

One day you will understand how ignorant your post truly was. BTW, this was bean counting, as well going after the bottom feeder market.

So what we get from Sauve here is GM can't to anything to make their product better and if they try then it will just suck anyway versus the competition. Also, how dare MT focus on the biggest carmaker in the world to see what plans they have for weight savings. They obviously should have talked about what everyone was doing so that's it's fair for everyone else. How dare them. </sarcasm>. Funny how I don't seem to recall this level of bitching when MT dedicated multiple articles to Fords aluminum process even they are not the only ones to have used aluminum.

Because 99.99999% of new car buyers want a CUV. Except for Mercedes buyers right? Or else that just makes it yet another silly number you just pulled out of thin air.

So it's, once again, your opinion that it is an opinion piece. Thanks for confirming that and a few other things.

So what Suave? It does not diminish what GM is trying to do anymore than it does Ford with their aluminum strategy. Don't know why you have to get so bent out of shape over this. Just because you feel that way doesn't make it so yet you continue to pass yourself off as the be all end all in these types of discussions.

It is not comparable when you only tell part of the story, the very same thing you criticized MT for here.