surreal1272

ATS was designed to be the lightest car in the class, the whole "every gram matters" philosophy they talked about. But some other guys got lighter, or got roomier and bigger while not adding any weight, and most of the ATS weight advantage in 2013 was in comparing an NA 4 cylinder ATS to a turbo 4 BMW and a V6 Mercedes. Low weight is nice, it isn't the way to win buyers. If it drives like a tin can, or has no interior space, or a cheap interior, no one will care what it weighs. So how does the CLA get away with it since, in lower to mid level trims, it suffers from a lot of the same issues?

I noticed the same thing but this is going to happen after several weeks of very intense discussions across multiple threads. There is always the "letdown" period before it seems to start back up again. It also happens when the repeating trolls get set aside for their actions. That does tend to pare the posts down because no one has to deal with the trolling BS afterwards until it all starts anew on the next "My Ford is better than your Chevy" (and vice versa obviously) or "Cadillac sucks because they can't blah blah blah" thread. The other factor is that those kind of threads can get a little tiring to see the EXACT same "arguments" made time and time again.

Depends. My magic can be a little "erratic".

This is actually not a bad looking truck in person but that heft is going to kill sales for it when most of the competition has gone on a diet.

Is this a serious question? Buick all the way. In fact, this is literally the only domestic from the 80's I would have (a close second to the Monte Carlo SS). Is this a serious question? Buick all the way. In fact, this is literally the only domestic from the 80's I would have (a close second to the Monte Carlo SS).

No. This morning at a press conference, Mitsubishi Motors chairman Osamu Masuko said a takeover was going to happen sooner or later. Plus, Mitsubishi already had a connection with Nissan concerning kei cars in Japan and they were in talks about extending this partnership. Whether they intended to sell or not is not my issue. I understand that completely. However, hat doesn't mean that Nissan wasn't looking to get a better deal. Letting the fuel controversy slip out prior to the buyout seems to lend some credence to it but maybe I'm just wearing my tinfoil hat a little too tight in regards to this.

So Nissan busted mistubishi on their fuel issues and then buys thirty percent of them. Does that not sound fishy to anyone else, i.e. stock manipulation?

How in the world are they copying a ten year old BMW? They have, for the most part, met or passed them in the driving dynamics category and they sure as $h! don't look like any BMW. Please elaborate. This because some here forgot how absolutely craptastic German interiors were thirty years ago.

Nice $300K Maybach that is nowhere close to the actual S Class being brought up here.

Nor does it have to. Good f@#king God fanboy. A few people make even a passing mention of a Mercedes and you go off the unrelated deep end again.

No. I'm saying make up your mind. Pick a stance and stick with it. You don't call someone out for that and then go do the EXACT same thing. If you don't understand the problem there, then this discussion is over.

Whether they are production shots or not is irrelevant as they are all done that way (referring to the three I posted). Again, they rest of what you are saying is purely opinion based while you try to pas it off as fact. But it does get beaten in luxury. Whether by the slimmest of margins in the base S550 versus the designo interior option that elevates the S-Class. Wait... didn't you just bang on someone for using a rendered picture? I couldn't find what I thought looked exactly like the configurator Drew. So I'm not sure that's the base model that you have posted. Everywhere else the CT6 is top notch. The car is truly engineered as a proper Cadillac. You don't get to move the bar here SMK II. We were talking about interiors l, not luxury. Duh! The S Class is more luxurious. It damn well better be for $100K and then some!

Whether they are production shots or not is irrelevant as they are all done that way (referring to the three I posted). Again, they rest of what you are saying is purely opinion based while you try to pas it off as fact. But it does get beaten in luxury. Whether by the slimmest of margins in the base S550 versus the designo interior option that elevates the S-Class. Wait... didn't you just bang on someone for using a rendered picture? I couldn't find what I thought looked exactly like the configurator Drew. So I'm not sure that's the base model that you have posted. Everywhere else the CT6 is top notch. The car is truly engineered as a proper Cadillac. On quick visit to MBs site confirms this is base trim. Also, you say you have the media as your evidence. Guess Drew doesn't count?

Tells me to post live shots and then immediately posts another "produced" shot. Why even bother having a discussion with you? Wait... didn't you just bang on someone for using a rendered picture? He sure did. My friend irony got a good laugh out of it.

Whether they are production shots or not is irrelevant as they are all done that way (referring to the three I posted). Again, they rest of what you are saying is purely opinion based while you try to pas it off as fact.

What verifiable fact? The only one who has been saying that it doesn't has been you. Also, if you had actually paid attention to the very first post comparing the two, you would have seen that they were referring to a base model S Class versus a platinum CT6, of which the latter DOES compare to. Not saying it is better but to act like it doesn't compare on some level because you say it doesnt, does not mean it is true. That is what you are not getting here.

Oops. Posted the Slade by mistake. Here we go.

I'm just going to leave this right here.

How well engineered was the Ciel?? The ElMiraj?? At what point was it not made clear that they were both styling exercises to usher in .. well new styling? The Ciel is the concept car of what the CT6, XT5, Escalade.. and CTS, f would look like, sans the convertible top. The ElMiraj is the next phase.. unless the new head of Global Design changes something. AND HOLD THE f@#k UP!!! Are U telling me that U believe that the S550.. because that's what I've been saying all along (not the S63 or S65) has an interior on par with the RR Ghost.. or the Bentley Continental??? Have U ever been in any of the three.. in recent years??? Dude.. just I'm done Those aren't my words, they're from the auto media that gets to spend time in all those vehicles. No, it doesn't beat them. But it's sure as hell closer to them, than the Cadillac is closer to it. And no one gives two $h!s on what platform or how well engineered those cars would have been if that kind of exacting styling, save for the fancy concept headlights were production vehicles. An El Miraj sedan would be beautiful, and worthy of being priced into the stratosphere. And now such a vehicle is up in the wind. Look, here's an example. Lexus had that coupe concept, and the production vehicle looks exactly like it, except the interior is closer to reality, but still off the charts in terms of how it reproduces the vision of the concept. Why couldn't Cadillac wait just a bit longer to get there? It's not like anyone will beat Cadillac on lightweighting anytime soon. The 7 Series has to use carbon fibre, and it still can't match the CT6. While you're here spitting venom about the CT6, I can only see the blatant double standard in your arguments. If you don't believe me, please reference your endless defense in the Continental thread while giving everyone else hell who dared to criticize it.Just saying. What goes around truly comes around. I still like the CT6 way more than the Conti. Besides, I still believe that handling at the limit is the last priority of anyone buying a large sedan. Especially Cadillac large sedans, given the vast history and most recently the XTS. And the Conti is a wallflower against an S-Class. There is no double standard. I wasn't giving hell. I was trying to coax a reasonable argument as to why anyone should care about driving dynamics in such large as hell sedans. From a luxury only standpoint, it's just a non-factor. And then if some GM fans started saying suddenly the CT6 is actually competitive interior-wise against the S-Class, they're patently wrong. Heck, ccap mentioned the comment how the CT6 is not going to match up to an S-Class. Which is what I'm trying to get inside the head of the staunch GM fan. Go ahead, rail against the Conti how it's not a sports sedan, something that Lincoln mentioned 5 months ago. Sorry but after reading through your posts on this thread, I see nothing "reasonable" in most of your arguments. More like lashing out (and this was before Casas insults).Btw, that last bit about the Conti proves my point.

How well engineered was the Ciel?? The ElMiraj?? At what point was it not made clear that they were both styling exercises to usher in .. well new styling? The Ciel is the concept car of what the CT6, XT5, Escalade.. and CTS, f would look like, sans the convertible top. The ElMiraj is the next phase.. unless the new head of Global Design changes something. AND HOLD THE f@#k UP!!! Are U telling me that U believe that the S550.. because that's what I've been saying all along (not the S63 or S65) has an interior on par with the RR Ghost.. or the Bentley Continental??? Have U ever been in any of the three.. in recent years??? Dude.. just I'm done Those aren't my words, they're from the auto media that gets to spend time in all those vehicles. No, it doesn't beat them. But it's sure as hell closer to them, than the Cadillac is closer to it. And no one gives two $h!s on what platform or how well engineered those cars would have been if that kind of exacting styling, save for the fancy concept headlights were production vehicles. An El Miraj sedan would be beautiful, and worthy of being priced into the stratosphere. And now such a vehicle is up in the wind. Look, here's an example. Lexus had that coupe concept, and the production vehicle looks exactly like it, except the interior is closer to reality, but still off the charts in terms of how it reproduces the vision of the concept. Why couldn't Cadillac wait just a bit longer to get there? It's not like anyone will beat Cadillac on lightweighting anytime soon. The 7 Series has to use carbon fibre, and it still can't match the CT6. While you're here spitting venom about the CT6, I can only see the blatant double standard in your arguments. If you don't believe me, please reference your endless defense in the Continental thread while giving everyone else hell who dared to criticize it. Just saying. What goes around truly comes around.

Marchionne floats an idea.

Agreed although this clearly was not intended as a political post as much as was a bait post.

And? So this means what? BTW, the answer is "nothing" because no one gives two $h!s about what Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei thinks. Obvious cheap shot is obvious and not very random. One could say Ayatollah Ali Khamenie comments are a cheap shot Yes they could and should. They could also say that this information was not worth anyone's time in the first place and really not worth spreading around the internet but hey, some folks have to do what they do. I've always found it humorous and a bit confusing when one says not worth " anyone's time " yet they initially comment on it, and then keep commenting. And I find it humorous when someone casts obvious bait and then acts like it is no big deal. Yes, I fell for your bait and told you why it was bait. Again, obvious bait post was obvious and should have never been posted in the first damn place. Comprehension is the key to understanding the fallacy of your initial bait post and follow up bait responses. Moving on with the random...

And? So this means what? BTW, the answer is "nothing" because no one gives two $h!s about what Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei thinks. Obvious cheap shot is obvious and not very random. One could say Ayatollah Ali Khamenie comments are a cheap shot Yes they could and should. They could also say that this information was not worth anyone's time in the first place and really not worth spreading around the internet but hey, some folks have to do what they do.

And the total among those five V12 will total less than it is worth bothering with. In other words, the only one who gives a crap about V12s is you and the 500 other people in this country of 300,000,000.