surreal1272

You used them as a luxury example while ignoring their luxury price, which is far north of $49K, which is now $3K more than what you stated earlier as the baseline. Arrgh? Really Sauve? The loss that SMK is asking Ford to take, based off of his own criteria about it being nicer than a $90K Escalade, is beyond unreasonable because basically he thinks Ford/Lincoln should build this $80-90K Lincoln and sell it for $46K (sorry but his $10K loss claim would not meet the luxury criteria he made for this mystical Lincoln so). Sorry, but NO company has done that and a profit driven company like Ford sure as hell won't do that. The big fix for them is just making Lincoln more unique and given them something that Ford itself doesn't have. Again, the sell at a loss argument just won't fly with Ford, nor anyone else for that matter. Let me make it clear Suave, that I am not ragging on you here. Lincoln has issues beyond belief, despite what their fans may say but selling at a price loss is not the short term solution to a long term problem. Sorry, I meant the expression as the disgust of how I actually think of the Lincoln situation, not as a dismissal of your argument. No worries. I know that I can come off a little too direct. I can certainly understand the disgust.

Arrgh? Really Sauve? The loss that SMK is asking Ford to take, based off of his own criteria about it being nicer than a $90K Escalade, is beyond unreasonable because basically he thinks Ford/Lincoln should build this $80-90K Lincoln and sell it for $46K (sorry but his $10K loss claim would not meet the luxury criteria he made for this mystical Lincoln so). Sorry, but NO company has done that and a profit driven company like Ford sure as hell won't do that. The big fix for them is just making Lincoln more unique and given them something that Ford itself doesn't have. Again, the sell at a loss argument just won't fly with Ford, nor anyone else for that matter. Let me make it clear Suave, that I am not ragging on you here. Lincoln has issues beyond belief, despite what their fans may say but selling at a price loss is not the short term solution to a long term problem.

So what you are saying is that Ford should just lose money on a brand that is just now making them money? The face I am making right now is one of pure laughter.

You do realize that your price to luxury ratio (given your stated expectations by wanting it to be nicer than a $90K Escalade) has about a $40K gulf right? Hyundai can't do so I sure as hell know Lincoln can't at that price. That is simply pulling numbers and expectations out of thin air SMK. Could Mercedes do that for $45K?

And no Breitling is worth $160K. That is criminal but some idiot will do it just because.

Nothing can hide the fact that it is ugly as sin on the outside.

Must be why Aston Martin hasn't grilled Ford too hard.

itemizing each opinion does not change the fact they were all risks to a degree. And as far as the definition or risk, I would say that following the Germans lock-step is hardly a risk. Lmao. You have provided no reasoning behind YOUR itemized list of "risks" and now you offer no rebuttal to my counterargument. I also see Drew has responded to your list in similar fashion. You've made it abundantly clear you do not understand risk in the automotive industry. In fact, just about every move Ford makes with Lincoln is done to MINIMIZE risk: -sharing platforms and powertrains -testing any new technology on the Ford brand -focusing on the highest profit luxury segments -abandoning the unique split-wing design for the new derivative luxury mash-up design Exactly. How is it a "risk" when they were never the first one in any of those developments he mentioned? Maybe he is confusing "risk" with "hey, let's follow Acura, Cadillac, and Lexus lead and put out a rebadged CUV and call it the MKX".

Camaro? Wrong thread Maybe you should read the entire conversation leading up to that statement before making silly accusations.

Says some. Truth is, when 700,000 people roll through NAIAS snapping a gazillion cell phone pics, they will all include one design language for sedan. Nobody, except us ridiculous forum dwellers, cares which was 6 weeks in front of the other. Says everyone who doesn't work for Ford, or else you wouldn't be making 500 different excuses for that very fact.

False. Globally, Cadillac sales are up 16%. In the US, sales are flat but average transaction prices are up $7,000 per unit over the last 12 months... and that's after a huge jump in the prior 12 months. Escalade transaction prices are up $20k over the previous model. Selling the same number of vehicles but at a $7k increase in price is a really good position to be in. Yeah, well, if we are suddenly talking global, then Lincoln is REALLY up. But flat = 'nowhere' in the US. In fairness, Lincoln had nowhere else to go but "up" so a bit of a misleading statement to make there.

While their profit has increased for the last several years as well. Gotta suck when that happens. Thanks for saving another down vote for me. For someone who trumps up profits so much when it comes to Ford, it sure is sweet irony that you would down vote the same kind of statement when it is NOT about Ford. Fact is that while volume is down, profits are up for Cadillac. maybe you were downvoted for another reason. ATP's and the price of lettuce in China has what to do with the fact that customers are flocking to CUV's, and Cadillac is behind the development 8-ball there. That's a simple fact. So you were just trolling then. Thanks for confirming that. Again, when it comes to ATPs and profits from Ford, you rah rah rah it all the way home but when it comes to anything NOT Ford, you sidestep, deflect, and make lousy excuses for it. Drew has already pointed out those facts very well, that you have willfully ignored.

It's like you completely ignored the previous pages explaining why going the full size hybrid truck route is difficult as well as pointless, as far the truck market is concerned.

He was replying to my statement about Cadillac's profits being up.

All I am gong to say is this. Google is your friend. Nothing else needs to be explained to you.

No!!! NOOOO!!! No! No!! Why?!! I don't know, ask the damn doe. She's the idiot... That royally sucks Thed. I do not miss that about NC. I have had more close calls than I care to count in my 35 years in that state.

Well, if we are to go off of this, then it is even worse than it seems. It was benchmarked against the Porsche 911, BMW M3, and even Nissan GT-R yet cannot beat the new Camaro. Now, what happened there? Is the new Camaro better than those three that the Mustang benchmarked themselves against? Or is it just the fact that saying the Mustang was benchmarked against those three nothing more than marketing speak? Either possibility is certainly worthy of a debate.

While their profit has increased for the last several years as well. Gotta suck when that happens. Thanks for saving another down vote for me. For someone who trumps up profits so much when it comes to Ford, it sure is sweet irony that you would down vote the same kind of statement when it is NOT about Ford. Fact is that while volume is down, profits are up for Cadillac.

While their profit has increased for the last several years as well. Gotta suck when that happens.

Exactly. What is the "risk" in a new nose job? Want to take a risk? A proper RWD/AWD Lincoln coupe would be a "risk". A real RWD Continental would be a "risk". Putting a new nose on the same face is not a "risk". Now, let me finish my haterade. I'm still thirsty.

Looks way too much like the now six year old (and no longer in production) Saturn Astra. I do agree that there should most definitely be a Cruze Hatch and SS variant.

Very sharp and I like the color combo used on the interior. Even the wood finish doesn't bother me as much with that combo.

Only one person wants that, it seems. I am not that person because the car was garbage and that is all I have to say about it. There were three people who commented on that vehicle, including yourself. Yes and I said it was garbage, end of story. Besides, this not about the poster right? It's supposed to be about the subject. Moving along...

Who would have thought that an MKZ can upstage so many in the luxury segment, with minor changes. As much as I like the new front style, it really is the rear most angle that just stands out unlike anything else..... and even the profile remains one of the better ones in the mid luxury market place. It does have a nice profile to it. That is one of the things I have always liked about it. My wife loves them and wants one so bad she can't stand it. Told her CPO is going to be our route short of some unexpected lotto winnings.