surreal1272

Or it could be because there is no business case for Toyota to go all in on a niche car (Supra) and it makes it more cost effect to partner up with another company for it. Again, that Benz bias coming through that keeps you from seeing the obvious reasons why Toyota went that route. They won't because the price of those two is FAR lower than the Lexus which doesn't even compete well with its actual competition at that price point. The Lexus is also three inches shorter than the average Stang, adding slightly to the heft factor when you are down on torque.

Very sharp ride @ykX! Bonus points for the color choice and major bonus points for the six speed manual! The current 'Stang has been growing on me and my neighbor has a sharp looking black GT (albeit a tad loud at 1 AM) that's a stick as well.

Seems to me that he made it pretty clear. Those are all things that have to be addressed at some point with an ICE auto. Not sur ehow one can be confused about that.

Any fuel "savings" is mostly due to US (cough*socialism 101*cough) subsidies of the oil industry over the last hundred years. I get what you were saying but that was not the core part of the back and forth between Balth and myself. If we are going to bring up fueling fine, let's try this. The average EV with minimum 200 miles of range, cost roughly around $9 to full charge (some places are cheaper than and some are more). That is FAR cheaper than a gas fill up on any ICE outside of a hybrid that gets 50MPG. (based on the same 200 mile range) and all of that can be done from your home while you sleep. Even if you account for a 220V home charger installation (for quick charging), it would cost "slightly" more to hardline a gas pump to your home and do the same thing with that. Just offering a little "outside the box" thinking here.

Curious statement for someone who never answers ANY questions. Mr. Cerebral lol.

Car prices have outpaced wages during that time. Again, no savings. And electricity for EVs is cheaper than gas for ICE. And the core point was auto companies passing on savings to consumers, which has not happened. Go back to the first part of the conversation between Balth and myself.

Not when the total price of the car has gone up during that same time.

It's all good my Canadian friend.

I am just going to say this. Toyota’s ownership of Subaru wasn’t made official until ten months ago so trying to connect one to the other, in terms of reliability, would be an incorrect assessment. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.torquenews.com/1084/subaru-officially-joins-toyota-group-what-it-means-new-outback-and-forester-models/amp

He is not even close to that bad lol. At least Balth will engage in a meaningful discussion. He is right about Toyota to a point. Some of their models are just "blah" and have some issues the days that Toyotas are not normally known for (looking at the cheapness of the RAV 4 here) but there is literally not one SUV that hold a candle to the 4Runner and the LC in terms of long term reliability plus killer resale. Could they use a real update? Sure but by the same token, why fix what isn't broken? The 4Runner continues to sell well.

It never came down. It was on the market for at least half a dozen other nations. That would be a solid argument if it weren’t for two things. 1. They (4Runners) were just as solid in 2009 as they are now. 2. Again, forty years of reliability.

Name one SUV made in the last forty years that is more reliable long term (sorry but recalls do not mean "unreliable") while having killer resale like the 4Runner (go ahead and sprinkle in the Land Cruiser while you're at it).

BS. I made my obvious joke while actually discussing the subject at hand, unlike yourself. You never, NOT ONCE, answered my original question (which was for you to tell us how you think you know the potential EV market better than EVERY auto company out there) which is what created the joke in the first place. Why? Because all you do is troll. Now, having said that, here's the kicker (and evidence you provide yourself). If the subject has been beaten to death then why the hell do you keep coming back to it and contribute nothing? Again, because you're trolling (or what you call "entertaining"). Pathetic considering you are the one who requested this subject matter take place here instead of Random Thoughts, all simply because you were tired of seeing it (and apparently because you have never heard of the "ignore" button"). You want others to follow the rules while you flaunt and ignore them, again, just like the outgoing president I'm sure you voted for). That is what has been "beat to death". How about holding yourself to the same standard that you ask of everyone else here? Can you actually do that? Somehow, I sincerely doubt it. Now, lets see which sentence you "cherry pick" in your reply while ignoring literally everything else that has been said. Again, not following rules you set for everyone else.

It’s still an engine that runs on gasoline and produces emissions. And after more than a century, why hasn’t there been any savings there because whether you want to agree with it or not, there is a BIG difference in where battery tech has been the last twenty years and where ICE has been for the last hundred. You are simply not holding ICE to the same standard that you are applying to EVs. And again, that cost savings may be further down the road than David is implying because, as I have already stated, he never gave a date or event for this to happen. Don’t know why this had to be repeated but apparently I didn’t make it clear enough the first time. And regarding your Kona comparison, it starts at $20,400 for a base model while the better equipped electric gets a $7500 fed credit taking it down to $30K. I’m just skipping the part where a loaded ICE Kona is far north of $30K.

Nothing happens overnight and its sounds like thats your core issue instead of understanding the fundamental reality of things time in a very competitive world. The current COVID/political environment does not help. It’s been really only in the last decade that the tech has even been allowed to exist in an ICE dominated world (forget the fact that auto companies AND the oil industry fought AGAINST battery tech for decades). Yes, David has said what he said but he also never gave a date for it. Again, a case of impatience for a tech you don’t really seem to care for in the first place but you have no personal use for it. Oh and battery tech is changing, ie solid state tech which is far more than can be said for the last hundred years of the internal combustion engine and the power of gasoline.

Maybe not the best example but the basic tech for ICE has not changed in the last century yet not one savings passed onto the consumer. Maybe, like EVs, it’s not just about the source of propulsion as far as price increases go. That’s the ultimate point here. So nothing of value to add to the discussion. No answers to my original questions. Just more trolling, more deflection, more BS. No wonder you worship the outgoing administration. You are not cerebral. You are a joke at this point and just about everyone here knows it.

While you talk about the 2% EV market share here and wondering why companies are investing heavily, you ignore that other part of market share involving the REST OF THE WORLD. Again, tell us how you think you know more than EVERY other auto manufacturer out there without your normal level of trolling and deflection. Don’t worry. I’ll wait.

GM wasn’t the only one mentioned genius and you talk a big game on GM for someone who bought one of their trucks.

Engines like the 5.3L and the tech behind them have dropped in price over the years while the Silverado they go in have not. That’s the point here. How about you stop deflecting and answer my first set questions there? Of course, maybe its you that doesn’t understand but thats not new, since you have never offered anything of value here. You know what? F him. No matter what answer to you give, no matter the facts that contradict his sorry excuses, he just sticks his fingers in his ears screaming “NO NO NO NO! EVS BAD! NO NO NO NO!” Because he’s so “cerebral”. Quite honestly, he will never understand it because I’m convinced that an EV harmed him in some way. Maybe he can show us on a doll one day.

Go ahead and explain why ICE prices never go down while you’re at it, even though the tech is over a century old. The ones above are incremental with the Leaf being understandable since 2021 is NEW model with longer range and more options.

Because I’m sure you’ve talked to everyone in this country to make such a determination. Tell us how you know better than GM marketing. Tell us how you know better than Ford marketing. Tell us how you better than ANY car manufacturer, for that matter. This how you can make your statement ring true as opposed to it sounding completely and utterly full of s***, like any other time you mention EVs.

Maybe because you weren’t really promoting walking as much as dismissing EVs, yet again. You are not that cerebral. Stop pretending you are.

So is trolling somewhere else yet here you are.

Other companies like Ford and GM are working on the lower priced market. Lucid can price their cars as high as they want, for that rich crowd that doesn't care so much about the median price. Also, considering that the median price keeps going up, it may be moot to harp on about EV prices right now anyway. As long as there are $30K three cylinder cars for sale (looking at you "top of the line" Trailblazer), I'm not going to split hairs over EV prices being what they are.

And? Rich peoples money ain't no good?