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Generation E - Are you willing to join the future?


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Notice how Balth’s dissent is still up and how it differs in tone and lack of bigotry? Do better and maybe your posts will stay up. I do not allow transphobic comments on this site.

I'm pretty much only automotively bigoted.

For the record, I had two posts deleted in the last two days yet I’m not on here claiming some kind of pseudo censorship. I know my posts went too far both times and I’m fine with that. Interesting th

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I cant believe Im actually gonna post a Debbie Gibson song on the internets. But..somehow, the song seems appropriate in this thread, even though I never really liked this song nor Debbie Gibson

Quote

Zappin' it to you, the pressure's everywhere
Goin' right through you
The fever's in the air, oh, yeah, it's there
Don't underestimate the power of a lifetime ahead
Electric youth!
The power you see the energy comin' up, coming on strong
The future only belongs to the future itself
And the future is electric youth
It's true you can't fight it, live by it
The next generation, it's electric

 

 

Im fully 100% on board with Gen E!   

 

 

 

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OK.  The marketing video posted is 100% gm garbage, but I will say this, it sticks with a tradition of ineffective, tap-dancing General Motors marketing failures that have led to the slow contraction to where the company is today.  I have a feeling this push will only accelerate a further dissipation of their market presence in their home market.  The video posted only serves to further distance a lot of long-time customers from this once-omnipotent company.  It SHEDS current customers, while doing zero to GAIN new ones who have money to spend.

When the engine rev has ceased, so will the company. 

A car is not a cell phone, and for gm to actually equate their cars to cell phones like it's somehow a good thing... this is completely unacceptable.

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14 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Wow, I see dissent is dead and buried at C&G. 

For the record, I had two posts deleted in the last two days yet I’m not on here claiming some kind of pseudo censorship. I know my posts went too far both times and I’m fine with that. Interesting that you’re the only one here complaining.

4 hours ago, ocnblu said:

OK.  The marketing video posted is 100% gm garbage, but I will say this, it sticks with a tradition of ineffective, tap-dancing General Motors marketing failures that have led to the slow contraction to where the company is today.  I have a feeling this push will only accelerate a further dissipation of their market presence in their home market.  The video posted only serves to further distance a lot of long-time customers from this once-omnipotent company.  It SHEDS current customers, while doing zero to GAIN new ones who have money to spend.

When the engine rev has ceased, so will the company. 

A car is not a cell phone, and for gm to actually equate their cars to cell phones like it's somehow a good thing... this is completely unacceptable.

Cars were turned into rolling appliances decades ago so your “cell phone” reference is actually how the new generation of future buyer will see it, thus leading to sales for that market (price willing of course) and that market is getting larger every year, whether you want to admit it or not. Your dinosaur mentality regarding EVs, or really anything different from your “norm” apparently, is outdated and becoming less and less relevant with every passing day. Don’t believe me? Take a look at the tech in your home and current ride and think about where they were both at thirty years ago. It’s been changing and will continue to change and so will cars. 

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6 hours ago, ocnblu said:

OK.  The marketing video posted is 100% gm garbage, but I will say this, it sticks with a tradition of ineffective, tap-dancing General Motors marketing failures that have led to the slow contraction to where the company is today.  I have a feeling this push will only accelerate a further dissipation of their market presence in their home market.  The video posted only serves to further distance a lot of long-time customers from this once-omnipotent company.  It SHEDS current customers, while doing zero to GAIN new ones who have money to spend.

When the engine rev has ceased, so will the company. 

A car is not a cell phone, and for gm to actually equate their cars to cell phones like it's somehow a good thing... this is completely unacceptable.

With few exceptions, the majority of cars on the road have no excitement anymore.  You think 350k Camry and another 400k RAV4 buyers a year care about their car making "vroom-vroom" noises from that oh so meaty 2.5 liter 4-cylinder? I went with my best friend to test drive some cars.... we looked at a 2-door Jeep Wrangler 2.0T, a Bronco Sport 2.0T, a 4-Runner (didn't like, didn't drive), and a Ford Flex. He hated the sound and feel of the 2.0Ts and really liked the V6 in the Flex.... why? because the Flex was quiet and had a lot of torque (not how he described the torque, but I knew what he meant). 

And that's what most people actually want... something not noisy, but still has instant low end torque. 

Price aside, I could get Albert a Model S Plaid+, plug it in for him for a few hours every Sunday, and functionally it would be no different than now when I take his 300C to Costco every Sunday to put gas in it. He'd never notice the difference.

There are those of us who like the sound of an engine revving, but we are in an extreme minority.   As soon as EVs come down in price relative to income and charging stations are wide spread, ICEs will become a niche vehicle. People just don't care. If they did, the Camry/Accord 4-cylinders would not have been best sellers for so many years. The Equinox/Terrain combo is something like the 6th or 7th best selling vehicle in the US right now and I'll tell you no one wants to hear that awful 1.5T doing its job. GM did a pretty good job at silencing it. 

You may not like it, but these are the factors that GM is working with. 

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32 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I'll tell you no one wants to hear that awful 1.5T doing its job

My brother just traded his 85k-mile 2017 Tahoe for a 2021 Equinox LT Convenience with blackout package, in silver no less.  I warned him about the 1.5t's early reliability problems, but he went for it anyway.  I told him to wait for the 2022 and get the 2.0t with the updated look.  He and his wife test drove '20 1.5 and 2.0t versions... he said she COULD NOT FEEL THE DIFFERENCE... that's an EIGHTY-TWO HORSEPOWER VARIANCE!  *facepalm*

Anyway, thanks for the hate.  Personally, I hope the thing is trouble-free.  I know his wife never liked the Tahoe due to its imposing size.

Yes, it is an important aspect of ownership for me to run the engine up through the gears (why I factory ordered a FIAT-Jeep with stick, and bought a Fiesta and Cruze with sticks as well in an effort to extract a bit of fun).  I love listening to my 3.6L kick down to pass, and I love how it leaps off the line and GOES when I feel the urge and it is safe to do so.  SUE ME.

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I understand the 1.5EB 3 in the Escape/Bronco Sport (and possibly the 2.0, IDK) have artificial (V8?) engine noise piped through the speakers to mask the fact that these aren't the good old days.

I'm on the verge of choosing a new vehicle (surreal:  too many skid marks/pearls of wisdom in my Colorado already!) and it kind of hurts, but it will not be a gm product.  I cannot give Mary money to spend on her hare-brained scheme.

Bronco Sport 1.5 Big Bend

2021 Escape SE with Sport trim pkg 1.5

2022 Rogue Sport if it is not electrified

2021 Rogue

2022 Tucson

2022 Kona

2022 Maverick

2021 Compass

2021 Renegade Trailhawk

If I could afford a V8 Durango, I would in a heartbeat.  If Dodge made a small truck, I would in a heartbeat.

 

Edited by ocnblu
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2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

My brother just traded his 85k-mile 2017 Tahoe for a 2021 Equinox LT Convenience with blackout package, in silver no less.  I warned him about the 1.5t's early reliability problems, but he went for it anyway.  I told him to wait for the 2022 and get the 2.0t with the updated look.  He and his wife test drove '20 1.5 and 2.0t versions... he said she COULD NOT FEEL THE DIFFERENCE... that's an EIGHTY-TWO HORSEPOWER VARIANCE!  *facepalm*

Anyway, thanks for the hate.  Personally, I hope the thing is trouble-free.  I know his wife never liked the Tahoe due to its imposing size.

Yes, it is an important aspect of ownership for me to run the engine up through the gears (why I factory ordered a FIAT-Jeep with stick, and bought a Fiesta and Cruze with sticks as well in an effort to extract a bit of fun).  I love listening to my 3.6L kick down to pass, and I love how it leaps off the line and GOES when I feel the urge and it is safe to do so.  SUE ME.

Your brother is exactly the type of consumer that, baring outside influences, would probably be suited to an EV just fine once cost and charging station network is addressed. I agree with you on the difference between the 1.5T and 2.0T, night and day... the 2.0T will easily break the front tires loose.

And it's not hate... it's facing the reality of where the market is today.  I knew when I bought my Avalanche I was most likely buying my last V8 ever, which is why I want to keep it forever.  I may get one more round of ICEs in my driveway, but eventually I'll convert Albert first and then me (though the Avalanche will stay).

I've never had the urge to shift my own gears, but I can and do appriciate the novelty of it. I just don't see it as a requirement for my day to day driving.  My commute to work is already infuriating enough, 45 minutes to go 12 miles, that shifting manually would add no joy to the drive.

The only thing I would point out as contrary to what you said is your insinuation that EVs can't leap off the line... they can and do.  Not every EV is a Nissan Leaf.

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Drew, friend should have tested a 3.6L Wrangler.

It wasn't the 2.0T that killed it for him, it was the bouncy ride.  I told him that the 3.6 would be more to his liking as he drives a V6 Liberty now, but the ride is what killed it.  He works from his car and also does trips home to NYC.  He needs something more comfortable for being in all day.  He's also very tall, so that's what killed the Bronco Sport for him.  His dream car is the Defender, but that isn't in his budget right now. He likes the boxy look of his Liberty and is attracted to the Flex... so who knows what he'll end up with.  I've found some MINT Ecoboost Flex Limiteds for him with like 15k miles for about $27k.

 

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

I understand the 1.5EB 3 in the Escape/Bronco Sport (and possibly the 2.0, IDK) have artificial (V8?) engine noise piped through the speakers to mask the fact that these aren't the good old days.

If they pipe sound in for the 2.0T, I certainly didn't hear it.  It was me who hated the sound. He hated the turbo-lag and lack of "Go!".  I didn't drive it, but I'm sure I'd have hated it to. I have no patience for turbo-lag any longer. 

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27 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Your brother is exactly the type of consumer that, baring outside influences, would probably be suited to an EV just fine once cost and charging station network is addressed. I agree with you on the difference between the 1.5T and 2.0T, night and day... the 2.0T will easily break the front tires loose.

Pardon me, but you don't know my brother.  He hates EVs almost as much as I do.  One of the reasons he got it for his wife is so he can save money toward a half-ton Silverado Diesel.  Payments on the Equinox are almost half what they were on the Tahoe (and with such high mileage on the '17 Tahoe it was probably good to get out of it at this point, even though the second owner will probably go another 100k miles and still keep good resale.)

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On 1/29/2021 at 10:05 PM, balthazar said:

They all looked like they were 20-30 yrs old. People that age very seldom buy new vehicles. 

Average Tesla buyer age? 54.

Young people don't buy any new cars at all because even a Sentra or Corolla is like $25k.  Cars have go to a price point where basically retirees or empty nesters can afford new ones.

The other problem with their ad is they talk of the "electric future" when Tesla can sell you an EV today.

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17 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The only thing I would point out as contrary to what you said is your insinuation that EVs can't leap off the line... they can and do.

That was not actually anything to do with EV, that was me talking to myself in conflict over whether to keep my truck, which I am very well-positioned in moneywise, or get rid of it on principle and get back into a CUV of some sort, which means starting all over again.  Again.

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14 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Pardon me, but you don't know my brother.  He hates EVs almost as much as I do.

That wasn't what I was saying at all. You (and likely he) have preconceived notions regarding EVs and will dream up as many reasons for why they won't work for you as @Davidcan dream up reasons why he can't fit in the front seat of something.

What I was saying was that if you wrote down his primary wishes in a vehicle (Good git'up, good economy, good reliability), an EV Equinox would suit his needs just fine.  A 1.5T mid-range Equinox is just one QuietTuning away from being a sensory deprivation chamber as it is. Listening to that 1.5 making the sausage is not an experience improvement. 

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15 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The other problem with their ad is they talk of the "electric future" when Tesla can sell you an EV today.

Well yes but Tesla is high-priced junk... other problem I see is I see no truly small, affordable EV in the shadows behind the designer dude.  Only hope they have is if Bolt 2.0 is truly inexpensive, and not just lease rates or taxpayer-subsidized, I mean actually affordable and appealing to the smrtphone crowd.

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1 minute ago, ocnblu said:

Well yes but Tesla is high-priced junk... other problem I see is I see no truly small, affordable EV in the shadows behind the designer dude.  Only hope they have is if Bolt 2.0 is truly inexpensive, and not just lease rates or taxpayer-subsidized, I mean actually affordable and appealing to the smrtphone crowd.

The Bolt for what it is, should be about $25k and not $40k to compete with a gas car.  The Bolt is comparable to a Chevy Trailblazer.  So until they can suck a ton of cost out of the Bolt, gas cars aren't going anywhere.  

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I prefer the mechanical aspect of automotive ownership, and all of the attendant, potential joys of it.  It is a pitiful excuse to have to listen to an off-putting, droning hum, or worse yet, fart sounds, a la Tesla's tongue-in-cheek announcement.

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11 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

preconceived notions regarding EVs

Well I mean... his mother-in-law has a Prius growing roots in her driveway because the hybrid battery died and she refuses to pay the price to replace it.  It will eventually be junked.  Which feels like what Barra is going for... after decades trying to shed the planned obsolescence rep, they're getting right back to it with their EV/smartphone correlation.  Do they think 20-somethings will pitch tents and line up around the block for the latest version?

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