FUTURE_OF_GM

VERY COOL!!!! I wish I had the money to buy it. If it goes for only 8K, that's a steal IMO.

Not to self promote or anything, but this is precisely why I think Detroit could gain back HUGE share if they appealed to the EMOTIONS of buyers. (As I've referenced here in the lounge and in the Buick section.

+1 You can thank the japanese for the death of that. Everyone wanted form to follow function and our companies were (and still are) crucified when they deviated from"homogeny" I think the 80s-00s had some great designs, but from what I've seen this year (even from GM) good design is a thing of the past.

Awesome! Way to go guys!

In america, it used to be considered good business for corporations to take care of their employees, contribute to the community and have pride in what they produce and how they produce it. This sense of pride then carried over into the workers as they bought goods and services offered by their fellow country men, not only because they had a vested stake in the success of their society, but also because those goods and services were the best in the world. Fast forward to today, where Wall Street calls the shots and everything at a corporation boils down to profit and sound cost structure. It doesn't matter if the employees are sick or dying. It doesn't matter if the community and the society that the business operates in is polluted or corrupt or even bankrupt. All that matters is answering to the banks and analysts. As americans, we have been conditioned to accept this new, lowered standard of living because we fear for our jobs and feel that we are owed nothing for our substantial contributions to the technology and productivity level that has allowed the business elites to expand their empires. As an american, no longer can you expect to ever completely retire... As an american, no longer can you expect to receive good health care... As an american, no longer can you expect to save money... As an american, no longer can you expect to be able to send your kid through college without damaging their financial standing via loans... As an american, no longer are you guaranteed the freedom to live where you want in a house that you want... As an american, no longer are you allowed to buy the car that you want... Throughout the 80's businesses were deregulated and allowed to violate rules that directly relate to workers rights and our standard of living. In the 90's corporations were allowed to pursue mergers and acquisitions instead of compensating their workers for increased productivity. This gave rise to the consumer credit industry. Consumers were no longer expected to 'make ends meet' on salary alone and were EXPECTED to have credit cards in their wallets. In fact, the amount of credit issued over the last 20 years has been DIRECTLY related to the widening gap in productivity verses pay in american society. The result: The upper 5% of our society doubled their wealth while the lower 95% of our society kept roughly the same amount of wealth BEFORE FACTORING INFLATION. Fast forward to today... Globalization is the name of the game as the american middle class continues to disappear. Wall Street is the new SS of this economic war, single-handedly deciding what businesses should live and what businesses should die. And along with them, what families/communities will "prosper" and what families/communities will suffer or disappear. Unlike our parents, we are not guaranteed good paying jobs and achievement of the american dream. Instead we are conditioned to fear outsourcing, believe in lower paying service jobs and rely on credit to purchase even the most basic of luxuries. We are quickly becoming a two-tier society, just like the rest of the world, in which the rich get richer and the poor barely exist at all. With the decline of the middle class, comes a decline in the labor movement as industry is moved from prosperous societies into desperate societies in which people work for cents on the hour and are so scared of corporations and so happy to have anything at all, that they accept their role as new age slaves. In america, unions used to matter and were in fact a source of pride. But now anyone who sees a union in the headlines or on the back of a product has been conditioned to think that said products business model is old and outdated. Said product is 'providing welfare' for people who perform "unskilled labor". What once was a source of pride in our country and a sense of unity has now become a reason for the trendy and "educated" consumer to avoid products and advocate the fall of what remains of our manufacturing industry. Why, you ask? For starters, 50% of mass media in america is owned by 8 companies. It's pretty easy to influence opinion when 50% of the media our society is exposed to can fit in a single board room. The WTO was created in 1995, since it's creation, it has found EVERY environmental, labor and trade law brought before it as "a hindrance to trade" and subsequently dismissed it. It is my belief that the WTO seeks to eliminate the global labor movement because the WTO is controlled by the elites. This forced move to a massive two-tier society in which the elites prosper and control the world via the world bank and the rest of us 'obey the rules' and work our jobs to constantly increase productivity for fear of being "outsourced" and simply to survive is almost inevitable in my opinion. The last chance we, as americans, have at avoiding this reality is the labor movement. We should NOT feel like we're lucky to have a job that pays more than minimum wage. We should NOT feel that pension and health care are luxuries that can no longer be provided to anyone except the financially well off. And we should NOT feel that we're somehow obligated to give up our standard of living for the sake of the global economy. That's where the UAW comes in If the UAW wants to save itself, it needs to seriously consider raising the cash (or trying to) to either flat out buy General Motors or purchase a controlling interest in the company. I'm willing to bet that there are hundreds of WTO interests reading the papers everyday with mouths watering at the fact that one of the only major labor movement proponents left in america is about to disappear entirely. So what better way to advance the labor movement and save an american icon of power than by having one of the oldest labor organizations running one of the biggest and most important corporations in the world? If you want to beat the WTO, you must LEARN from it. You must CONTROL the environment in which you wish to succeed. If the UAW wants to preserve and grow it's membership, then it needs to get into the business and actively participate in shaping it's future. PROMOTE General Motors as "the peoples company" that is owned and ran by "your next door neighbor". DESIGN cars that will expand the market share of General Motors both here and abroad. Honestly, UAW membership is probably more privy to the stigma and product deficiencies plaguing GM than upper management because UAW people experience and live in the market everyday. BUILD cars here in america that americans and the rest of the world would be proud to own. You control the labor, so you'll control the ROI and profit. Then hire Chinese people to BUILD CARS IN CHINA that Chinese people are proud to own. Then hire European people to BUILD CARS IN EUROPE that European people are proud to own. Every story has more than one chapter... The downfall of General Motors is as much of an opportunity as it is a disaster. If the UAW wants to remain relevant and the people of this country want to begin to regain our quality of life, then it's time to re-invent the printing press and start writing the next chapter of the story.

A lot people as the media continues to convince them that Kia is worth it.

Ya know... I was thinking the EXACT same thing today.... You and I must be on the same brainwave. I was watching a documentary on the 1999 WTO protests in Seattle. That brought to mind the fact that the world really is controlled by the elite at the expense of EVERY society, it's just that america has the farthest to fall. I was thinking to myself, the only two major unions left are the UAW and the Teamsters. So how much of this, especially the one WTO official that said he would lobby against a Detroit bailout, has to do with breaking the union? Globalization is winning the fight against the labor movement as it is. But imagine the momentum and victory that would come with a bankrupt Detroit... It could very well spell the beginning of the end for unions and the labor movement entirely. After that happens, nothing short of a global war (Some could say that the financial crisis is the beginning of that -- i.e. the working class has decided to reduce spending greatly) will save us from corporate globalization, if even that can.

It's too bad that america doesn't care enough to offer this kind of support to it's automakers. Germany is willing and ready to rescue Opel, but here in the U.S. GM has to beg and plead just for loans.

It's perception... People are to damn stupid to realize that the domestics are as good or better than the imports because the PERCEPTION and MYTH of Japanese superiority still lingers. And 1) this MYTH pervades EVERY aspect of our lives here in america and 2) the media continues to sell this outdated theory on a dily basis to reinforce BAD purchasing habits.

That statement right there tells me enough about this guy to know that he automatically values imported cars OVER domestics despite his claimed 'logic'. he looks down on Detroit cars and Detroit car buyers. Nope. I am loyal to Detroit, my friends, my community and the soldiers that protect my life. Sadly, I don't give 2 sh*ts about this country because it sold me and my community and now my last bastion of americana (Detroit) out.

Wow... What a one-sided, protectionist, piece of sh*t. It's too bad that GM didn't kill Opel when GME was losing tons of money and pissing off all the labor unions a few years ago. Here's something to chew on: Maybe Opel sucks and has a bad reputation. I mean, after all, Opel and Chevrolet were at one time supposed to share the "global brand" designation, but Opel failed even in it's home market, so GM made Chevrolet the "global brand" and now Chevrolet is wiping the floor with Opel on the sales charts. (I know, it's all skewed truths... But i figure, since this guy can play the deception game, so can I) If German management is so good, then why are all of their volume car companies owned by foreign entities? If German management is so good, then why did Daimler run Mitsubishi and then Chrysler into the ground on top of effing over it's own image through horrible quality problems? Germany just needs to shut the hell up, sit back and come along for the ride. They haven't dictated the global economy since Hitler hit the Cyanide button. (And BTW, I'm half German)

You know, this is the dumbest "oh well" brush off logic I've ever heard.... Yeah, companies fail in a free market FAIR system and are replaced. That's business. But companies that fail in a manipulated system (Both through subsidies from 'replacement' businesses governments and a lack of oversight from 'failed' businesses government) and are replaced by companies that DO NOT have our best interests at heart will eventually cause the COUNTRY to fail. We are beginning to see that. Theses 'capitalism above all else' people are so blind and naive that I don't think anything can save this country. But then again, why should they care. After all, the 'replacement businesses' are mailing their paychecks anyway. So because GM and Ford are old and carry the LEGACY costs of most of this country, they made bad business decisions? Once upon a time, caring for your workers was a GOOD business decision... But then again, once upon a time, caring about the wellfare of ones country above all else was a good decision as well. Yeah, because NOT being able to get cars financed in a society where even FAST FOOD is bought on credit cards is DEFINITELY not a national problem. These people are so f*cking stupid. Anyone who sits back and believes that the national financial crisis (Not unlike the great depression) isn't affecting ALL businesses, should be shot in the face at close range by a shot gun. That's how ignorant you'd have to be.

Nah... If they did that, they'd lose their money flow from big oil.

I take this approach as well... I mean, as long as I can have my fire breathing Corvette or Pontiac or Camaro, then why not make a majority of the very fuel efficient? Let's face it; GM and Co are going to have to pull some sort of miracle out of their asses in order to gain a huge chunk of the publics support again. Why not leverage E-Flex to reinvent the automobile and do just that. We live in a very "tech and innovation conscious" society. Like I said in my TO GM project, GM needs to redefine itself as a LEADER in technology and innovation IMMEDIATELY.

YouTube is our friend United Abominations Amerikhastan

All of those are on "United Abominations" which is their most recent album. (2007) EXCELLENT listen! That is the album that really got me into Megadeth.

I would like to see a 6 division GM again. That's when the company did well. 1) Chevrolet 2) Pontiac 3) GMC 4) Saturn (Oldsmobile) 5) Buick 6) Cadillac I hate to see Hummer go, but oh well. As for Saab... Was it ever really there in the first place?

Oh trust me, the media will "inform" the consumer of the quasi bankruptcy.

Cognitive Conditioning by the media... It's gotten so bad and we've been dealt so much FALSE negativity for so long that even GM fans are turning against the company. I'm a diehard GM fan, but even still I can make a case as to why Toyota is better. The fact that the media has that kind of influence over me, a bleeding GM fan is disheartening and scary. Imagine the influence they've had on the average consumer.

Not to cast anymore of a bleak shadow on this topic, but a couple more good ones from Megadeth: "Washington Is Next" The quiet war has begun with silent weapons And the new slavery is to keep the people Poor and stupid, "Novus Ordo Seclorum" (New order of the ages) How can there be any logic in biological war? We all know this is wrong, but the New World Order's Beating down the door, oh something needs to be done There was a King, an evil King, Who dreamt the wickedest of dreams An ancient mystery, no prophet could interpret Of seven years of famine, the wolf is at my door As predicted years ago, that that was, that is, that is no more The word predicts the future and tells the truth about the past Of how the world leaders will hail the new Pharaoh The eighth false king to the throne: Washington is Next! Disengage their minds, sabotage their health Promote sex and war and violence in the kindergartens Blame the parents and teachers; it's their fault, "Annuit Coeptis" (He approves undertakings --- both of these latin phrases are on our U.S. seal) Attack the church dynamic, attack the family Keep the public undisciplined 'til nothing left is sacred and The "have-not's" get hooked and have to go to the "have's" just to cop a fix The word predicts my future and tells the truth about my past Of how the world's leaders are waiting to usher in The eighth world power of modern Rome: Washington is Next! There's something at my door, some ancient mystery The future tells the truth about my past And I'm the eighth false king to the throne I've got you in my crosshairs, now, ain't that a bitch? Washington, you're next! And: "United Abominations" (The title track to the excellent political album this came from) Within striking distance from Ground Zero sits a smoldering international cauldron, the United "Abominations" as it were. Born to prevent wars, it froze in the face of disaster and stood silent while terrorization to hostage of the world In a mire of hypocrisy, the U.N. ignores sex crimes by its "blue helmets", and enables terrorism; so in the end it's failed and the U.N. is where our so-called friends get to stab us in the back and we pay 22% of their tab to host our enemies here at home. Ambassadors from countries, otherwise known as a catastrophe, enjoy Diplomatic immunity living in Manhattan, while their children are turned into prostitutes. It's a complete and utter disgrace, a blot on the face of humanity, and they get away with it. Poverty in their kitchens Held hostage by oil-for-food Yet their own plates are full off the fat of their lands There's no blood on their hands, right Kojo? They promised to tell the truth Without leaving a fingerprint, They will lose the U.N. one way or another The victim, I fear will be us, sisters and brothers The U.N. is right; you can't be any more "un" Than you are right now, the U.N. is undone Another mushroom cloud, another smoking gun The threat is real, the Locust King has come Don't tell me the truth; I don't like what they've done It's payback time at the United Abominations A grave and gathering danger The decision to attack Based on secret intelligence it'll take years I fear to undo the failings in Iraq, Iran, and Korea You may bury the bodies But you can't bury the crimes Only fools stand up and really lay down their arms No, not me, not when Death lasts forever "The U.N. writes resolution after resolution and has become irrelevant through inaction and totalitarian paralysis," "Order, Order!!!" "Ha! There is no such thing as order" "Larry, it's true, reports confirm today that the United Nations has officially closed its doors forever," "Well, I just don't see what all the fuss is, because they don't do anything anyway, do they?" NATO invaded Yugoslavia to end ethnic cleansing, there was no U.N. The U.S. invaded Afghanistan after 9/11, there was no U.N. Saddam Hussein violated 17 U.N. resolutions; The U.N. was asked to join the war in Iraq. The U.S. invaded, Ha! there was no U.N. Libya bombed a discotheque in Berlin killing Americans, there was no U.N. Iran funds Hamas, and attacked the U.S. in the seventies, there was no stinking U.N. Facing War without end, looking into the future, there was no more U.N. "Amerikhastan" Recruiting the ill-fated for "The War" A legion of uneducated, bankrupt souls With a lust for revenge, answering the call From New Yorqatar to Califarabia Desperation provides fertile ground for religious extremism This glorious brainwashing where prejudice lies Like a crouching tiger Tormenting peasants till they erect an army Under everyone's nose In the end propaganda destroys their DNA, God help them All that they envisioned of what things would come to be Turned into a pink mist when they blew to smithereens We are just a war away from Amerikhastan When God versus God;the undoing of man Promising a vapor, in the end they become one No rules of engagement, this enemy hides Amongst women and children And to beat violence, you must ignore the focus groups You must send in the Mossad, turn off the BBC, CNN And don't look back Rest assured there'll be no more Middle Eastern crisis, hell! There'll be no more Middle East! These are your people Lady Liberty Pull up your dress today And tattooed is "property of The USA A subsidiary of Halliburton" Surprise?! But a roaring lion is about to be on earth Hey, Jihad Joe? Guess what? We're coming to get you!

I dunno, But I did post on his board.

+1 Survival of the fittest man!

I actually think this is a very smart move. (As opposed to letting the entire ship sink) I just hope GM would be willing to re-acquire or insure the future of all it's NA brands (Although I'm sure it wouldn't)

Been listening to a lot of MetallicA lately (naturally) "That Was Just Your Life" does it for me because sometimes I just want to 'stitch up my eyes and open them just in time to say goodbye' because I'm so sick to death of this society. "Cyanide" appeals to me a lot because its how I view myself in relation to this society. A.K.A. I seem "completely empty" to you because I don't care about you, don't want to know you and don't care about this life and as a result am patiently awaiting death to confirm what has already happened. (I know it sounds morbid, but read the lyrics and think about it and you'll understand) I'm just so "over" what this society considers valuable and morally correct, so I'd rather not participate. Sleep and dream of this. Death angel's kiss. Brings final bliss. Completely... Empty they say. Death, won't you let me stay? Empty they say. Death, hear me call your name. Call your name! Suicide, I've already died. You're just the funeral I've been waiting for. Cyanide, living dead inside. Break this empty shell forevermore. Wait, wait patiently. Your death-black wings. Unfolding sleep. Spreading over. Say, is that rain or are they tears? That stained your concrete face for years. The crying, weeping, shedding strife. Year after year, life after life. An air of freshly broken ground. A concrete angel laid right down. Upon the grave which swallows fast. It's peace at last, oh, peace at last. Forevermore! It's the funeral I've been waiting for! (BTW, this song was actually written about alcoholism) I've also been listening to "The Judas Kiss" a lot and trying to convince myself not to do exactly what the song says. A few others: "Holy War... The Punishment Due" by Megadeth appeals to me because I kinda feel like the guy in the song in relation to my tireless fighting for GM and my and my colleagues likely eventual censorship. "Raining Blood" by Slayer has been spinning a lot too. This song just gives me a sense of empowerment. "The Axe Shall Fall" by DevilDriver is a nice little revenge tune that gives me solace. "Living Dead Beat" by Children of Bodom seems like a reflection of self and my attitude about life. I've been playing C.O.B. a lot lately. But as far as relation to GM and the times, I think a few Lamb of God songs sum it up perfectly: (Bolded are the lines that I think DIRECTLY relate to the situation that this country is in... Think about it) "As the Palaces Burn" The fiends have gagged a generation of pacified fools. Bound by our greed a nation enslaved as corporate tools. Arise and raze the legacy of their lies. To realize that this in itself is an ascension. Towards the day we revolt. As the seeds you've cast away take hold. War will be born. Rejoice, the age of the fall has begun. We'll dance as the palaces burn. A shot gun blast into the face of deceit. You'll gain your just reward. We'll not rest until the purge is complete. You will reap what you've sown. My redemption lies in your demise. In such a world as this does one dare to think for himself? The paradox of power and peace will destroy itself. "Vigil" Our father thy will be done. I have denied this life its worth. I will not be the victim. Sickness to you my master Here's to getting worse. Hope it kills you faster. Show me how it hurts to rot from the inside out. This vigil burns. Until the day our fires overtake you. Our father we forsake you. Blessed be his name. Nothing now the same. Ask me why I hate Why I've prayed to see the nation that I loved disintegrate And gladly give my life That revolution regenerates. In honor of the strife of those who've died In generations before for your blood stained glory I reject you I deny you I defy you to continue. Smite the shepherd and the sheep will be scattered. "Laid To Rest" If there was a single day I could live... A single breath I could take. I'd trade all the others away. The blood's on the wall, so you'd might as well just admit it And bleach out the stains, commit to forgetting it. You're better off empty and blank, than left with a single pathetic trace of this. Smother another failure, lay this to rest. Console yourself, you're better alone Destroy yourself, see who gives a f**k. Absorb yourself, you're better alone Destroy yourself. I'll chain you to the truth, for the truth shall set you free. I'll turn the screws of vengeance and bury you with honesty. I'll make all your dreams come to life, then slay them as quickly as they came. Failure. "Now You've Got Something To Die For" (One of my all time favorites -- It sums up all politicians) Now you've got something to die for. Infidel, Imperial. Lust for blood, a blind crusade. Apocalyptic, we count the days. Bombs to set the people free, blood to feed the dollar tree. Flags for coffins on the screen, oil for the machine. Army of the liberation, gunpoint indoctrination. The fires of sedition. Fulfill the prophecy. Now you've got something to die for. Send the children to the fire, sons and daughters stack the pyre. Stoke the flame of the empire, live to lie another day. Face of hypocrisy, raping democracy. Apocalyptic, we count the days. We'll never get out of this hole until we've dug our own grave. And drug the rest down with us, the burning home of the brave. Burn! "Remorse is For the Dead" The dirty lord of the manor surveys his filthy domain. Too many nights raising hell worked a little all too well. Constructed a monument to denial and excess. Sunk so low, crawled so far back there's nowhere left to regress. If these walls could talk, they would tell a horror story. Never-ending winter, violence and infidelity. Shadows fall through broken panes. Careless words that are filled with hate. Just enough to keep it together, never enough to make it work. All the tongues here are forked. We are a hailstorm of broken glass, follow the path of least expectancy. A huge stinking pile of sick, pile it higher and higher. Light the match, start the fire. Level this place until nothing is left and take us with it. Surroundings are irate. Crack of dawn brings naught but pain. Resentment steadily grows. Laughing in the gallows. Full throttle determined to fail, pedal to the metal asleep at the wheel. We are the lucky ones, welcome home. Poisoned nerves and a bloody antidote Violence is not an aberration, it's a rule. Dying beyond the pale. Your beatings will continue until my morale improves. I don't hate you, I'm just removing an enemy. Remorse is for the dead, my enemy. Remorse is for the dead. Randy Blythe of Lamb of God is one of the best songwriters in metal IMO. 99% of his lyrics are about political and societal issues.

If it happens, the most likely is Saturn. I personally voted for Pontiac. I don't really see GM shedding any brands though (Maybe Pontiac or GMC) All of the divisions are vital to the company in the global marketplace. Chevrolet, Saturn and Cadillac are all givens... Buick is vital in China, Saab is basically an entity in itself and can piggy back on Opel without any support from GMNA Hummer is gone either way (sadly) Pontiac sells so well here and in Canada that GM could technically use that as a bargaining chip. Not to mention, both Pontiac and Buick are linked to Holden and GM-DAT in the global scene. And GMC piggy backs entirely on Chevy. Nothing substantial can be gained from eliminating ANY of the divisions, unless we're looking at a DRASTICALLY smaller GM (and by that I mean a GM that holds 10-12% of the market)