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Oracle of Delphi

R.I.P. GM, Ford, and Chrysler

24 posts in this topic

This is THE END. The auto industry is dead. Or just about.

It's amazing the stories you hear about car manufacturers from where I sit, in an educated mid-Michigan community that is perfectly suited to retrain autoworkers into just about anything technical that is not auto-related.

Governor Granholm was interviewed by the national media all week long, talking about how "the collapse of the auto industry would have a ripple effect throughout the nation." The entire Michigan congressional delegation -- Republicans, Democrats, Communists, Socilaists, all of 'em -- sent a joint letter to the legislative leaders and President Bush asking for help. Automaker leaders of Ford, General Motors, and Chrysler descended on Capitol Hill, begging for a Lee Iacocca-style loan out of the $700 billion bailout package, to be paid back with interest (of course).

Problem is there are not enough leaders in DC taking the bait. Matter of fact, neither am I -- and I am also a Democrat from Michigan. See, we had this discussion at work around the water cooler, and my boss said "people don't realize that the auto industry is so strongly tied to our national economy." I just thought to myself -- "bull$h!." Sorry, outside of Michigan and Ohio, we might like to think that the auto industry is relevant... but it is not -- it shouldn't be if our future depends on it. It is a global industry now, with cars being built by different companies from different countries with different parts from all over the world. Where the hell were the pistons in my Canadian Buick Century made? -- same place as the Brazilian rubber Goodyear tires or the American engine block? I have no idea...

The problem is that the American auto industry had it coming, and the fat cats at the top have been nothing short of blind, deaf, and dumb... with the exception to line their own pockets. THE END has been 30 years in the making, and the auto industry missed the boat with future technology. GM leadership for years have called hybrid cars a "bad economic model." Problem is, hybrids are all that people have been buying the last year. GM had no models designed, no fuel efficient vehicles glimmering in showrooms. The reality is that the squeeze of oil has finally been the push that moves advanced countries on this Earth closer to a George Jetson world.

Now and forever people will be purchasing fuel efficient cars, and not gas guzzling Buicks, Chevys, and the like. Want proof? No more evidence than the 45% drop in GM sales last month coupled with a $18 billion (that's billion with a "B") loss this year which has the auto giant on its knees, with the gun of Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson pointed at their head. The fact that auto industry leaders never made contingency plans -- or better yet, diversified their offerings --- has spelled doom. The collapse in the US and international credit economy has done nothing more than hasten the death of this very sick and ill patient. Even if the auto industry did get the money, there's no assurances that it would help. Matter of fact, let's call it like it is -- it IS too late.

The only solution? What this industry needs is a swift kick in the ass. Leadership is all about taking risk and jettisoning the status quo. There is no leadership among the fat cats in American auto industry. Let this industry go bankrupt, which will force the leaders into a restructuring plan that will create Jetson-esque transportation for the 21st century and beyond. All those workers who lose their jobs... that is a tough issue, but that is why we have COLLEGE and COMMUNITY COLLEGES and RETRAINING. Get THEM folks EDJICATED. It's never too late, especially if you want to have a roof over your head and put food on the table.

Pensions? Retiree benefits? Come on, welcome to 2008. Anything beyond a 401-k is so 1950-ish. The fact that automakers have been so willing to shell out billions for decades to people not working has finally come home to roost.

There is this little matter of national security -- we do need a manufacturing base to be able to turn to in times of dire need, say if the Canadians or Chinese invaded and we needed our factories to make tanks, bombs, or bombers. But, bankruptcy can help get rid of all of the issues that have festered for years, and give America a new baseline for the auto industry that can design the industry for a more successful future.

Sure it will hurt. But so did having my appendix out last week. A few painkillers, and you'll get over it. And, so will America. It is time to move on.

Link: http://www.collegeotr.com/michigan_state_u..._chrysler_14752

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A Michigan State University student, the trouble with it is, it's picked up by a lot of other colleges. Feel free to leave you comments there. Sometimes I don't think GM will surmount the negative bias that's out there.

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That's not mere bias, it is outright untruths and stupidity.

I just can't believe the overwhelming idiocy of so many Americans.

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Sadly, I think your right.

We are going to rival Bolivia in our standard of living in about ten years. And I'm not kidding.

Chris

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"Sure it will hurt. But so did having my appendix out last week. A few painkillers, and you'll get over it." Are you sure they did not take your brain out too? Show me a country that gets by on Wal-Mart jobs, and I will show you a third world country. I am sure this guy is writing this garbage from the basement of his partent's house because he never had to go out and work for anything.

i wish i could correct this guys comment. he lives there not because he never had to get out and do anything, its more like the degree he paid 40K for amounts to nothing so he cant use it to get a job.

you know people write this stuff and there are readers who cant make a decision under their own right to save their life that go around preaching it like the gospel truth. gas hog buicks? let me guess you are looking at the 1974 mileage ratings right? bloggers.... theres another waste of space for you, if you get out of the basement and see the light you may be suprised.

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What this entire debate boils down to is this:

There is a train wreck coming.

Some can't wait to watch it destroy their own homes.

And some hope to prevent it.

There is no middle ground.

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Sure it will hurt. But so did having my appendix out last week. A few painkillers, and you'll get over it. And, so will America. It is time to move on.

This concluding sentence alone made my brain implode. His equating the domestic auto-industry that provides hundreds of thousands of jobs with a non-essential bodypart that can be 'removed' shows that college boy here, who is likely having his tuition payed for by his parents, is totally out of touch with his own country. I'll bet he'll really happy with himself when he realizes that any possibility of a career within his own state, or even his own nation could be jeopardized with the industry's collapse.

Another thing, it's easy enough for him to say that people can be retrained... but for what? A career in the service industry? And do people have the 'time' to get retrained? Many will have families, so they'll have to first manage to find a job in order to put some food on the table, because we can be sure that this guy certainly won't support increased welfare, and assistance payments. Then they'll have to go back to school, competing not only with young students for classes, but also with their own, just in order to graduate to another job that likely will pay diddly-squat, or may not even exist due to the economic turmoil.

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It's amazing the stories you hear about car manufacturers from where I sit, in an educated mid-Michigan community that is perfectly suited to retrain autoworkers into just about anything technical that is not auto-related.

Which tech industry?!?!?!

The one that is downsizing? Or the one that got outsourced?

Problem is there are not enough leaders in DC taking the bait. Matter of fact, neither am I -- and I am also a Democrat from Michigan. See, we had this discussion at work around the water cooler, and my boss said "people don't realize that the auto industry is so strongly tied to our national economy." I just thought to myself -- "bull$h!." Sorry, outside of Michigan and Ohio, we might like to think that the auto industry is relevant... but it is not -- it shouldn't be if our future depends on it.

Maybe this guy should climb out from under that rock.

It amazes me how f*cking stupid americans are.

It is a global industry now, with cars being built by different companies from different countries with different parts from all over the world. Where the hell were the pistons in my Canadian Buick Century made? -- same place as the Brazilian rubber Goodyear tires or the American engine block? I have no idea...

Hmmm.... Me thinks that your "have no idea" mantra sums up your knowledge of the entire industry.

The problem is that the American auto industry had it coming, and the fat cats at the top have been nothing short of blind, deaf, and dumb... with the exception to line their own pockets. THE END has been 30 years in the making, and the auto industry missed the boat with future technology.

Wrong-o..

To say that the credit crisis, over all financial crisis and the tanking auto market had nothing to do with this is beyond ignorant.

GM leadership for years have called hybrid cars a "bad economic model."

And they STILL ARE.

Problem is, hybrids are all that people have been buying the last year.

LMFAO... So ALL 16 million units sold last year were hybrids?

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GM had no models designed, no fuel efficient vehicles glimmering in showrooms. The reality is that the squeeze of oil has finally been the push that moves advanced countries on this Earth closer to a George Jetson world.

Chevy Volt

Chevy Cobalt

Chevy Aveo

Chevy HHR

The most fuel efficient trucks and SUVs in the market via Chevy and GMC

The Lambdas

The new Chevy Equinox and Cruze

Saturn Astra

Pontiac G3

Pontiac G5

Pontiac Vibe

Pontiac G6

Malibu hybrid

Aura Greenline

Vue Greenline

Silverado hybrid

Sierra hybrid

Yukon hybrid

Tahoe hybrid

All the Saabs!!!

Solstice

Sky

What more do you want?!?!?!?

Now and forever people will be purchasing fuel efficient cars, and not gas guzzling Buicks, Chevys, and the like.

Okay, so that's why the "gas conscious" trend has already begun to reverse.

Want proof? No more evidence than the 45% drop in GM sales last month

When gas was $2.00/gallon?!?!? Nah... the lack of financing had NOTHING to do with it.

The only solution? What this industry needs is a swift kick in the ass. Leadership is all about taking risk and jettisoning the status quo.

We TRIED that in the 80s and you pieces of $h! in the press never let us live it down.

There is no leadership among the fat cats in American auto industry. Let this industry go bankrupt, which will force the leaders into a restructuring plan that will create Jetson-esque transportation for the 21st century and beyond.

Bankruptcy is not an option you f*cking idiot. The companies will disappear if they go bankrupt.

All those workers who lose their jobs... that is a tough issue, but that is why we have COLLEGE and COMMUNITY COLLEGES and RETRAINING.

Do you have the money to fund that?

Get THEM folks EDJICATED.

Shows what a yuppie, condescending son-of-a-b*tch this guy is... But then again, he is in academia, so go figure. Not to mention, Detroit's loss is his gain. You know what they say; those that can't do, TEACH.

It's never too late, especially if you want to have a roof over your head and put food on the table.

I have 2 degrees and I'm still a student and I sure AS HELL am having a hard time doing just that... Explain why... Since you seem to have all the right answers (Like most 'college people' seem to think they do)

Pensions? Retiree benefits? Come on, welcome to 2008. Anything beyond a 401-k is so 1950-ish. The fact that automakers have been so willing to shell out billions for decades to people not working has finally come home to roost.

The fact that we as a society have been conditioned to BELIEVE that we should GIVE UP FREEDOMS such as this shows just how ignorant you are and that you're willing to support the divide between rich and poor through the global economy (That america apparently isn't allowed to contribute to)

Sure it will hurt. But so did having my appendix out last week. A few painkillers, and you'll get over it. And, so will America. It is time to move on.

So THAT'S it?!?! You're on painkillers and your judgement is flawed.

I'm so tired of this "america will get over it and prevail" mindset. america is in the sh**ter and it will remain there until people like you are silenced or EDUCATED about the reality of the global economy and the reality of LIFE for most people in this country.

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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What this entire debate boils down to is this:

There is a train wreck coming.

Some can't wait to watch it destroy their own homes.

And some hope to prevent it.

There is no middle ground.

I LOVE watching a good train wreck.

I hope people like this suffer really bad if this country ALLOWS our auto industry to fail. maybe I'll throw them a bone or 2 when they're starving in the gutter... Oh wait! Nevermind, I think my dog deserves the bone more.

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...to add to this...the community college thing won't work. Most of the students graduating from Columbus State (where my wife works) are 40K in debt and unable to find a job.

There is a movie called Shopgirl. with Claire Danes and Steve Martin IIRC, where one of the lead charactors is working in a mall after graduating thousands in debt.

This will be the new reality for our children.

Chris

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Chevy Volt

Chevy Cobalt

Chevy Aveo

Chevy HHR

The most fuel efficient trucks and SUVs in the market via Chevy and GMC

The Lambdas

The new Chevy Equinox and Cruze

Saturn Astra

Pontiac G3

Pontiac G5

Pontiac Vibe

Pontiac G6

All the Saabs!!!

What more do you want?!?!?!?

Shame on you, FOG...you forgot the Sky Redline and the Solstice GXP, two of my personal fav. GM cars.

Maybe they can go away with everything else and we can cruise around in Priuses on a sunny day...what a depressing thought.

Chris

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What crap... the only part I kinda agree with is that they need a swift kick in the ass.

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A Michigan State University student, the trouble with it is, it's picked up by a lot of other colleges. Feel free to leave you comments there. Sometimes I don't think GM will surmount the negative bias that's out there.

you would be amazed at how many people i encounter that feel exactly this way. complete utter hatred and disdain for GM.

but if you were going to shut down their entire industry i wonder how their feelings would change.

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So, college boy dip$h! from middle of Michigan...you say retrain all of the guys on the lines making the cars that nobody is buying and just let GM, Ford and Chrysler die...that is your plan?

So, how does the 45 year old guy with a mortgage, car payment, kids to feed et al do all of that while being a sponge to academia? Who is paying for the 'EDJUCATION' AND putting food on the table while he is being re-trained?

Figure out what that will cost and MULTIPLY that number by 3,000,000 (the number of jobs lost DIRECTLY by the closing of the Big 3) - where is that money coming from?

Next problem: The retirees. Where is THAT money coming from? Going to retrain THEM to go out into the workforce to do what exactly?

And here is something that Mr. College Boy is not thinking of: Not to say that the average line worker is not a bright individual...but do a majority of them have academia written all over them? Would they even PASS a college entrance exam? (hell, I went to college and I doubt I could get in based on the 17-year absence from school!!!)

There are a lot of flaws in the article that dip$h! penned...but I am sure it matters to him not as he strolls out to the parking lot at the end of the quad and fires up his Nissan Altima and drives over to his parent's house for another hand out from the Bank of Mom and Dad.

New law: Unless you are actually a CONTRIBUTING member of society, you do NOT get to have an OPINION about the Economy.

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That's not mere bias, it is outright untruths and stupidity.

I just can't believe the overwhelming idiocy of so many Americans.

Sad... tragically sad... but true.

I'll spare you the anti-GM leftist propaganda

bull$h! that was being spewed on a local

radio station here in Boston this AM.

It's a sad time to the USA, for GM, for the

American people, American values, it's just

sad... pathetic.

The majority of the population of this

country (as of 2008) are losers who are

wasting our oxygen. Pathetic, soulless idiots

who are just sheep and can never amount to

anything worthwhile... they just eat, crap &

watch the TV like fu**ing zombies waiting

for the media to tell them WHAT, when &

how to think.

#$@$*#&!!!~!

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I have no idea...

That could have summed up your entire insight on the matter, but no, you had to go on.

THE END has been 30 years in the making, and the auto industry missed the boat with future technology.

You mean like V8s with self preservation technology?

Cylinder deactivation?

Airbags?

Magnetic ride control?

Direct injection for the masses?

Onstar and remote vehicle diagnostics?

Guidestar?

GM leadership for years have called hybrid cars a "bad economic model." Problem is, hybrids are all that people have been buying the last year.

At < $2.00, hybrid cars are a terrible economic model. At < $3.00 is when they are just bad. People are buying hybrids, but up until very recently, and possibly still today, Toyota wasn't making any money on them.

GM had no models designed, no fuel efficient vehicles glimmering in showrooms.

That "glimmer" you see on that milky weak coffee brown Pruis is just PR bull&#036;h&#33;. The Malibu is one of the most fuel efficient large cars available. Cobalt and HHR are in the top of their classes. Saturn's had high efficiency models available since inception. GM's trucks, yes there are people that need them, are THE most efficient available.

Now and forever people will be purchasing fuel efficient cars, and not gas guzzling Buicks, Chevys, and the like. Want proof? No more evidence than the 45% drop in GM sales last month coupled with a $18 billion (that's billion with a "B") loss this year which has the auto giant on its knees,

EVERYONE lost sales last month. GMAC changed their financing requirements... ever think THAT might have more to do with GM's sales loss?

The fact that auto industry leaders never made contingency plans -- or better yet, diversified their offerings --- has spelled doom.

There isn't an auto manufacturer on the planet more diverse than GM. No, not even Toyota.

Pensions? Retiree benefits? Come on, welcome to 2008. Anything beyond a 401-k is so 1950-ish. The fact that automakers have been so willing to shell out billions for decades to people not working has finally come home to roost.

The only thing said in this rant that has any validity.

Sure it will hurt. But so did having my appendix out last week. A few painkillers, and you'll get over it. And, so will America. It is time to move on.

Sure! What's another 130,000 (conservative estimate) unemployed from GM alone. And when GM/Ford/Chrysler's suppliers go under, what will happen to Toyota, Nissan, BMW, Honda, and Mercedes who use those same suppliers?

All those workers who lose their jobs... that is a tough issue, but that is why we have COLLEGE and COMMUNITY COLLEGES and RETRAINING. Get THEM folks EDJICATED.

I hope you kept the receipt for where ever you got your edumacation..... maybe you can get a refund.

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Sad... tragically sad... but true.

I'll spare you the anti-GM leftist propaganda

bull&#036;h&#33; that was being spewed on a local

radio station here in Boston this AM.

It's a sad time to the USA, for GM, for the

American people, American values, it's just

sad... pathetic.

The majority of the population of this

country (as of 2008) are losers who are

wasting our oxygen. Pathetic, soulless idiots

who are just sheep and can never amount to

anything worthwhile... they just eat, crap &

watch the TV like fu**ing zombies waiting

for the media to tell them WHAT, when &

how to think.

#$@$*#&!!!~!

On Sunday my wife yells down from our bedroom upstairs to change the channel to channel 3. So I change the channel and I am greeted by the NYT hack Friedman on some debate about our auto industry. I immediatly yell back to my wife, don't listen to him, he is a Toyota humper who once said America would be better off if Detroit went under and we bought Toyotas. He one stupid idiot.

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Do we have the email address of this student so we can educate him on the realities our auto industry?

edited for spelling

Edited by prinzSD
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did that article really just say "if the canadians invaded...." ????

:rolleyes:

yea i guess this is a good source

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"anti-GM leftist propaganda"

I didnt know Republicans were leftists? They are who are most against bailout loans. Their main philosiphy is 'tough sh*t' if business fails, and of course utter hatred of unions and blue collar work. [They only want votes, then its 'go F yourself' poor losers] Also, the real elitists are rich snobs, who think all manufacturing should be overseas, since its cheaper and supposedly 'better' since anything foriegn is 'simply superior'.

So, don't assume that only left wing people hate GM. Plenty of hard core Repub's drive Lexus, MB, Beemers, etc. John and Cindy McCain drive import lux boats, for example. And good old boy Bushie, said 'they have to build more relavant products' assuming GM still makes Vegas and 10 mpg big cars.

Edited by Chicagoland
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