Camino LS6

More Doom and Gloom from Automotive News

40 posts in this topic

I don't have a full account, so this is just the teasers for each article.

Of course, you may not want to keep reading anyway.

http://ebm.e.ccialerts.com/c/tag/hBJIeVoAG...&RAF_TRACK=

The FLA senator is an idiot!

Allow me, I have fulll access to almost anything!

Senator calls for 50 mpg as condition for aid

WASHINGTON -- Automakers that receive federal aid should double the fuel economy of their fleets by 2020, Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., said today.

Nelson's remarks during Senate floor debate suggest that Republicans are not the only lawmakers who may block emergency loans to the Detroit 3.

In an interview, Nelson said a new energy law that raises fleetwide fuel economy to 35 mpg by 2020 -- about 40 percent higher than today -- falls far short.

"Why should we be pouring taxpayer money into an automobile industry that has continued to resist higher miles per gallon, which has led us in part to the problems we're in?" he said.

Nelson said he wants a fleetwide average of 50 mpg by 2020. Asked whether he would seek to block aid to the industry over that issue, he said: "All of that is process. That is yet to be determined."

Nelson echoed other lawmakers who say the aid legislation should include pay limits for Detroit 3 executives. But he also said current senior management of the automakers should step down.

General Motors declined to comment on Nelson's proposals, pending the release of the actual legislative language.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said he plans to introduce a broad economic stimulus bill that includes aid to automakers.

If that bill fails, Reid said, he will offer a bill that provides only for expanded unemployment benefits and aid to the Detroit 3, expected to be $25 billion in loans drawn from $700 billion already approved to rescue the nation's financial system.

The White House says Congress should make it easier for automakers to get loans from a separate $25 billion previously approved to help with retooling for more fuel-efficient vehicles.

Separately, in a Senate floor speech late this afternoon, Republican Whip Jon Kyl of Arizona argued against a federal bailout of the Detroit 3 and attempted to refute their claim that bankruptcy is not a realistic option.

If the companies need to shed debts, employees, brands and dealers to become viable, that's exactly what bankruptcy protection is designed to help them accomplish, Kyl argued.

He also revealed that Bush administration officials have discussed providing aid to automakers to help them get through reorganization under bankruptcy law since they contend normal sources of credit would likely be cut off.

As for suggestions that the federal government would help manage automakers if they get a bailout, Kyl threw up his hands and said, "That is the last thing you want."

Link: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti.../811170235/1200

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>>"Nelson said he wants a fleetwide average of 50 mpg by 2020."<<

Why only 50 ?? Doesn't that big dial in all the assembly plants go clear up to '200 MPG' ?

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maybe he'll be the first to go if cuba ever invades... <_<

he's about as stupid as that woman who cast her vote on the CAFE legislation because of her instant MPG readings....

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>>"Nelson said he wants a fleetwide average of 50 mpg by 2020."<<

Why only 50 ?? Doesn't that big dial in all the assembly plants go clear up to '200 MPG' ?

Hmmm....a fleetwide average of 50 would require a fleet of diesel Aveo sized cars and trucks... :)

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>>"Nelson said he wants a fleetwide average of 50 mpg by 2020."<<

Why only 50 ?? Doesn't that big dial in all the assembly plants go clear up to '200 MPG' ?

Perhaps we could use the French idea of a car that runs on hot, compressed air. The Florida senator has plenty of that.

But as you said in another post balthazar, none of this is good for the auto industry. I have a real feeling that the days of cars like the CTS, Solstice, Camaro, Mustang, Cahllenger, 300 et al. are very numbered indeed.

Chris

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Hmmm....a fleetwide average of 50 would require a fleet of diesel Aveo sized cars and trucks... :)

It will be a sad day in mudville when the sexiest car you can buy is a bright Hugger Orange...Smart Car.

Chris

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Perhaps we could use the French idea of a car that runs on hot, compressed air. The Florida senator has plenty of that.

But as you said in another post balthazar, none of this is good for the auto industry. I have a real feeling that the days of cars like the CTS, Solstice, Camaro, Mustang, Cahllenger, 300 et al. are very numbered indeed.

Chris

I keep hearing the Rush song 'Red Barchetta' with it's ominous sounding 'Motor Law'...

R-Cube

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:banghead: Why would you expect anything less than this nonsense of 50mpg fleet average from the lunatics at Disney On The Potomac?? They have not lived in reality in the last 40 years!!

Clyde

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These morons seem to not realize that not only would such a ridiculous mandate cost much more to achieve, but the $25 billion in loans (not free money) is just so they can keep their doors open.

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I'm surprised he didn't make the suggestion to shoot every car buyer as soon as they sign a sales contract for any vehicle that gets under 50 mpg. Shame on those stupid customers who want to spend their money on something they WANT to buy!

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Wow, just wow. These are dark days indeed for car nuts like us. And to think, just as it looked like GM had the ship starting to sail a little better, started coming back out with some real good product, and the Volt right around the corner, etc, etc, the economy takes a huge &#036;h&#33; and the credit markets freeze up. It truly blows that the Big 3 are going to the Govt., hands out for a loan like this for the entire public to see (and criticize). I knew as soon as I started hearing a few weeks back that GM and the other two were heading to Washington for money, that all the anti-car, anti-Detroit loonies in the media and on Capitol Hill would come out of the woodwork and utterly piss me off. I think I'm going to officially hang up my car enthusiast hat during this holiday season and take up some completely different hobby.

I keep saying bird watching, but I may just start getting into cooking - I like food, maybe spending some time in the kitchen will make me feel better? Photography is cool too. Yeah, photography. Hmmm... :mellow:

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The same was said about seatbelts, emissions regs, CAFE et al.....

It's difficult to get 50 MPG, but far from impossible. Maybe we should keep being dependent on oil from our enemies for a few more generations?

It's a national security issue more than anything---and Europe already has fun cars that get 50 or more---the electrification of the car (as led by GM's Volt) will mean realistic advances that net such results.

It's actually not bad for GM--or the country. And, its better to have a GM than allow it to rot, no?

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You can definitely get 50mpg in a compact w/ a diesel... it doesn't have to be an Aveo-sized sh*tbox. The automakers just have to have the courage to sell them here.

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>>"The same was said about seatbelts, emissions regs, CAFE et al....."<<

No; the same was NOT said about seatbelts.

As far as CAFE goes, we have a 35/2020 already on the table. Jumping to 50, another 50% bump, in the same time span ??? How about 35/2010 and 45/2020?

>>"It's difficult to get 50 MPG, but far from impossible."<<

Sure it's possible to build a car that gets 50 MPG, but this is not a suggestion to build a single car that does so, but a full product line that does so on a sales-weighted average.

>>"...Europe already has fun cars that get 50 or more..."<<

Any European brands with a 50 MPG fleet average, or anything close to it?

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The same was said about seatbelts, emissions regs, CAFE et al.....

It's difficult to get 50 MPG, but far from impossible. Maybe we should keep being dependent on oil from our enemies for a few more generations?

It's a national security issue more than anything---and Europe already has fun cars that get 50 or more---the electrification of the car (as led by GM's Volt) will mean realistic advances that net such results.

It's actually not bad for GM--or the country. And, its better to have a GM than allow it to rot, no?

then make the Japs have their cars at 50 mpg too. 50 mpg will compromise safety also.

the smart car can't even get above 35 mpg real world.

so you're using the national security card when it comes to mpg but the manufacturing technology and ability of our own US owned companies has no bearing on national security?

so when detroit closes down, and the UAW goes with then watch those wages plummet at those transplant plants fold.

funny thing, watch the jobs go back to Japan too.

I read a good article today, the article where the governor got a Kia Borrego as a gift from Kia for the new plant opening (some southern state). Don't kid yourselves people. A large majority wants the Detroit 3 to go under so that car jobs will come to them in the US, and they don't care if the countries are foreign. Its regional warfare.

Lots of folks feels that Detroit failing will actually benefit those in other states, particularly. People are being selfish basically. they want the failure of the detroit 3 and UAW because they assume they will benefit somehow.

so if the big three are handicapped with some sort of extra rules because of this, why not put rules on all those transplants who took a bunch of government money to have their plants set up here in this country?

Edited by regfootball
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You can definitely get 50mpg in a compact w/ a diesel... it doesn't have to be an Aveo-sized sh*tbox. The automakers just have to have the courage to sell them here.

no one wants to buy cars like that in the US. they only buy them when gas prices spike. or their wages suck. which both are the problem.

the only reason MINIS sell here at atrocious prices, its an 'entry level BMW'. people can't get the 1 series even its too pricey. But for brand snobs, the Mini is the next best thing.

I don't see mammoth A3 or C30 sales. So you can't say people want premium small cars.

Gas is two bucks now. Don't think that Jetta diesel will be as in demand now.

That Cobalt that was flying off the lots mere months ago (see, added shifts) now is rotting on lots too. Look at Civic sales, march vs. last month.

Look in the mirrors people and say this again 20 times fast......PEOPLE IN THE US DO NOT WANT SMALL CARS

THEY ONLY as a whole BUY THEM EN MASSE WHEN MONEY BECOMES THE ISSUE

Edited by regfootball
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Wow, just wow. These are dark days indeed for car nuts like us. And to think, just as it looked like GM had the ship starting to sail a little better, started coming back out with some real good product, and the Volt right around the corner, etc, etc, the economy takes a huge &#036;h&#33; and the credit markets freeze up. It truly blows that the Big 3 are going to the Govt., hands out for a loan like this for the entire public to see (and criticize). I knew as soon as I started hearing a few weeks back that GM and the other two were heading to Washington for money, that all the anti-car, anti-Detroit loonies in the media and on Capitol Hill would come out of the woodwork and utterly piss me off. I think I'm going to officially hang up my car enthusiast hat during this holiday season and take up some completely different hobby.

I keep saying bird watching, but I may just start getting into cooking - I like food, maybe spending some time in the kitchen will make me feel better? Photography is cool too. Yeah, photography. Hmmm... :mellow:

Warning! Too much time in the kitchen may make you end up looking like Santa! HOHOHO!

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If VOLT is actually rated at 100 mpg, and if GM proceeds with producing several variants of the VOLT platform & tech under different brands (Buick Riviera, Cadillac version, other platform mates as well) then why would it be difficult for GM to achieve an average of 50 mpg between now and 2020????? I say go for it!

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Obama had better be able to stand up to the more idiotic factions of his own party. Have they never heard of incentives? If you want less gas to be consumed just make it more expensive! Then the carmakers will make cars people want instead of cars the government forces them to make.

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then make the Japs have their cars at 50 mpg too. 50 mpg will compromise safety also.

the smart car can't even get above 35 mpg real world.

so you're using the national security card when it comes to mpg but the manufacturing technology and ability of our own US owned companies has no bearing on national security?

so when detroit closes down, and the UAW goes with then watch those wages plummet at those transplant plants fold.

funny thing, watch the jobs go back to Japan too.

I read a good article today, the article where the governor got a Kia Borrego as a gift from Kia for the new plant opening (some southern state). Don't kid yourselves people. A large majority wants the Detroit 3 to go under so that car jobs will come to them in the US, and they don't care if the countries are foreign. Its regional warfare.

Lots of folks feels that Detroit failing will actually benefit those in other states, particularly. People are being selfish basically. they want the failure of the detroit 3 and UAW because they assume they will benefit somehow.

so if the big three are handicapped with some sort of extra rules because of this, why not put rules on all those transplants who took a bunch of government money to have their plants set up here in this country?

I've never supported the idea of Detroit being allowed to fail---I would demand smart, meaningful milestones and goals---but you'll never find me rooting for their failure.

As far as safety, or any other excuse, the EU's crash standards are good enough for me--clean diesel, hybrids & Volt-tech EREV's all will make 50 mpg a breeze---the Volt will come with 100mpg ratings, whichl raise the avg quite a bit if GM has the cajones to build enough of them!

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Attaching these increased CAFE rules is ill-timed pandering in my view, it distracts from the immediacy of the crisis at hand.

Such side debates should be reserved for another day.

The manufacturers know that they need to operate with fuel efficiency as a guiding principle, they don't require goading to aim them in that direction.

Let's keep them alive so that they can deliver what the senator is demanding.

First things first.

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I've never supported the idea of Detroit being allowed to fail---I would demand smart, meaningful milestones and goals---but you'll never find me rooting for their failure.

As far as safety, or any other excuse, the EU's crash standards are good enough for me--clean diesel, hybrids & Volt-tech EREV's all will make 50 mpg a breeze---the Volt will come with 100mpg ratings, whichl raise the avg quite a bit if GM has the cajones to build enough of them!

I believe that there should be global crash and emissions standards but fuel economy standards would be a bear to make global.

all i am saying, all cars in whatever market they are in should have the same regulation criteria.

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