A Horse With No Name

Since we just Bought a MINI ...and yes I know the Buick stream liner is in the Curves section also...but it bears repeating here! I always knew Buick owners seemed like they were from another planet... Notice the GM iron in the back ground...

Post yours here... For Oldsmoboi

2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 vs. 2013 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 Comparison Test Sit Down, Brace Yourself Then, just as we were convinced the GT500's power was utterly untouchable, we moved on to handling tests and things changed. Our first hint that there's something truly special about Chevy's ZL1 came when it calmly circled the skid pad at 1.03g — a number higher than the last Chevy Corvette ZR1 we tested and matching the McLaren MP4-12C and Porsche 911 GT2 RS for the highest lateral acceleration we've ever recorded for a production car. Wait. Isn't this a Camaro? Yes, yes it is. The best Camaro ever. At 70.8 mph it was also quicker through the slalom than the GT500, which managed a still respectable 69.1 mph. One hundred and ten feet are required to bring the ZL1 to a halt from 60 mph — 1 foot longer than the GT500. Both cars suffer from a too-soft middle pedal when driven with purpose — hardly surprising given the road-crushing mass and power at work here. Practical Matters When it comes to the ZL1, Chevy rejects the notion that cars this capable need to reflect those abilities in their ride quality. This was evident as we drove the Camaro 2,300 miles across the country to clash with the GT500 in Southern California. Never once during the journey did our backside lose consciousness. Calling the Camaro comfortable is a stretch because its ride is taut even in Tour mode, but it's still a wholly worthy long-distance car. In fairness, the Shelby, too, manages a decent ride on the highway, but it lacks the latitude provided by the Camaro's magnetic dampers. Some fundamental problems still persist in the Camaro. It remains only a periscope away from rivaling a Virginia class submarine's forward visibility. As a result, placing the Camaro in a corner precisely is consistently frustrating. Even after three full days behind the wheel we were incapable of discerning exactly where the Camaro ended and empty space began. Chevy somewhat mitigates the problem in Reverse by installing a back-up camera that displays in the rearview mirror. Submarine commanders would be proud. The Ford answers back with better visibility and more supportive seats if you order the optional Recaros. It's still not possible to see the edges of the Shelby from behind the wheel, but being smaller in every dimension except height helps. What the Ford gains in perception, it loses in drivability thanks to a tall 3.31 rear-end gear that allows it to reach 60 mph in 1st gear and claim a top speed over 200 mph. This gearing is purely a marketing tool designed to achieve stunning 0-60 numbers and a headline-worthy top speed. The trade-off is overcoming that tall ratio every time you pull away from a stop in the Shelby. Ample torque makes this manageable, but it still requires considerable attention to an area where the ZL1 is utterly seamless in comparison. It's a similar, although much less drastic difference, when it comes to their respective shifters. They're both rowing the same gearbox, but the linkage in the Camaro has far less resistance. It makes every shift a non-event while the Mustang often pushes back against aggressive shifts. And let's face it: In cars like this, ripping gears is their stock in trade, so the Camaro's superiority here is a big deal. http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/...ison-test.html Glad to see the Camaro finally get some love in the Mustang media frenzy...

Which, ironically, is why I love them. Oh, and thanks for the link, I got a kick out of it!

If nothing else...based on styling alone...the Cruze beats the Mazda three by a landslide. It's got some of the nimbleness of the Mazda 3, some of the sleekness I like in the Jetta, the build Quality and attention to detail of the Ford...and none of the cheap feeling the Hyundai in the test has, IMHO.

Here is a neat link to another FWD Mopar project car.... http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/neon-acr-coupe-2012-challengedd-build/50461/page1/ I'm not posting this to derail the thread or steal DF"s thunder...I"m posting this because I think these modern car restification projects are wicked cool!

Really it would be nice if Ford could build a really modern, really fullsize RWD car. right now, looking at a 65 Galaxy 500 XL or 66 Imapala at a local car show is as close as you can get....

Which has me torn...I'd love to get another domestic in the driveway, but there are things these two do well. Right now we've got two Japanese cars, two American, and one British.

Excellent....maybe in 78 years you tube will have a video of you and the Intrepid like they did that lady and her Packard!

I love the map light in the dash... neat old car, and gorgeous!

I'd actually like if they built something like the old 900...THAT was a neat car!

Heck yes....I miss these cars.

Good luck!

Subie version seems better. Drove one and had really mixed emotions...thinking of how I want to write the review.