razoredge

Thanks sciguy, thats good news. I dont bother with the truck section so I havent kept up on any of that.

Really, its the Detriot Free Press but Bravo for GM and Ford just the same. I remember we were all pretty much having negitive feelings about the HHR when we first saw it. Is it really selling well ? Great if it is. Last thing I would like to say is "the HHR is a "car" ? " I have yet to see one, looks like a small panel truck to me.

no Cris I was actually refering to our lack of objective in the States

completely different family tree, totally unrelated

Most excellent truth hyper. Great warranty and the need not to use it is key to automotive success. The price thing is an issue, unless everyone is OK with Americans working for penuts but thats another topic that just cant be absorbed by the "Other" Americans that are doing gggggggrrrrrrrreeeeeeeaaaaaatttttttttt ! As for this "tec" all I can say is here comes another 500 lb's to add to the unladen weight. Im one that does not want this crap in my cars, I drive for the road, I like the view out the window and I do not want electricity controling anything Im banking my life on. I ve had more than enough experience with electo over hydro to know it has the personality of a robot. Why so much money needs to be wasted changing things that do not need fixin is beyond me. Not one, not one! of the test drivers I have seen test a car on the track have not mentioned the first thing they like to do is shut off control systems so they can feel what the hell they are doing. The decline of civilization

what the heck is this supposed to mean? Your shaking it a bit too much and its beginning to swell like self gratification. Are you so "enlightened" as to know whats "typical" in NW Indiana ? Im beginning to see a bit of whats typical in another geograghic.

Oh yea, people change everyday. You see it all the time. One day a jerk, the next day all fixed, never to return to their roots. I suppose they just should have cut him loose, being a changed man and all. We've killed and delimbed children in the streets of Irac while we allow gangs to terrorize our own streets.

Come on RKM, cut me a break ! I tried really hard on this and I feel I came up with some good evaluations. Cars currently come in all sizes and everyone over 18 is done growing so that covers the better percentage of the next 40 years of car buying public. Im not getting any larger and in fact at only 5:10 Im still larger (longer) than most men Ive worked around. Our highways are stuffed full of one car one driver every morning on the way to work. Car pools stink. Not many that live in same area work in same area. Then it adds time involved with work everyday to have to meet up and wait and drive out of the way, ect. ect. Not that I am against it, but I know that is the majority. Currently our fullsize cars are smaller than mid size cars of decades past yet they weigh nearly 1000 lb more. All jumbled up with electro garb and piggy toe air bags. For a small transportation car I'd rather have my money spent on a small refined alloy V8 and skip the piggy toe protection and "help me, Im lost" electro garb. I'll take baffeling brilliance over dazzling bull anyday.

Its interesting that he seemed to like the car but said enough bad about it and GM in general to make sure no one ever buys one. Wonder why he didnt throw in something like "not a bad car considering it comes from a company thats nearly bankrupt." His opening statements show he is amounst the mechanically challanged.

By all means: lock down this thread and lets get one going with pics of dash plastic graining instead. I've only owned one 4-dr hardtop, a '65 Bonneville. For those who have not ridden in one with all the windows down on a warm spring day, you cannot imagine the tremendous difference. [post="62220"][/post] I can imagine some thoughts after reading that. "windows down ? whats that ? The plastic graining in my dash might get dirtie" :lol: No doubt about it. The wind buffeting off the B pillor is annoying.

You know, while a hardtop is much better than the post I just dont aspire to owning any 4 dr cars - for classic purposes. It must be an aquired taste. I would however go for a suicide door 65 66 Lincoln but thats because I had some experience with one in the 70's. In fact heres a story Led Zeppelin III - The first time I heard Immigrant Song was on a brand new just purchased 8 track in that very same Lincoln. My best friends fathers pride and joy. It was a mid 60's, Im thinkin 66. Ya know sixty, that pillor didnt affect the sound of that poundin riff one bit ;-) Long live Led Zeppelin.....oh wait....I forgot...just having a little flash back Rock on Sly, this beats the hell out of all the complaining. Although it didnt excape the complaining, in fact you complained about B posts, and now Im complaining. Jeeze ! ;-)

I do want to add "Think modern" Does this mean that anyone that doesnt agree is not modern ? Of course not, thinking modern has little to do with only one side of the current topic at hand.

I agree 100% with the identity of branding. I gets tricky however with GM. I began talking about less competition within and more streamlined lineups back this time of year in 00 when they made the Olds announcement. I believe they have actually been gratuating toward this anyhow. My problem is I dont like where it has left Buick, 2 cars and they are extremely "mature" cars, conservative cars. Somehow Cadillac has become the performance division, personal luxury division, as well as the ultra luxury division. Then now we are talking "big" full blown Chevys and sporty luxury Pontiacs and sporty luxury saturins. Everyone is putting Buick in the corner and forgetting about them. Chevys crowding the luxury end of Buick, Pontiac and saturin is crowding the exciting personal luxury side of Buick and Cadillac is now everything to everyone except compact/econos. I understand that is not what this thread is about, but you are talking, go Pontiac go and let Buick sit with the conservative styling & FWD's and family cars or retirement cars.. I could argue that Buicks place in life has always been the styling statement of personal luxury "sports" cars and classy luxury family sedans which they still are but without the styling statement. We still need to leave room at Buick for a bit of pizzaz. At the same time we need an economical car at Pontiac for the masses that live above sea level in the snow belt or those people will be buying Hondas too. Lets not forget where GMs market is. Sure conquest sales, sure lets keep that GTO and place it in with an established volumn car. It cant go with GP if Grand Prix name is staying but everything Pontiac can not go RWD and allsports. Great looking yes but it cant be a full line up of sports cars, screw all other division and screw the current FWD driveing Pontiac clientel. Is anyone aware of the following the FWD Grand Prix has ? Its not something to sneeze about, same with the Bonneville, there are some serious Pontiac fanatics out there and believe me they do not think their cars are lame, why should they ? They are not. There needs to be compromise, I believe the results of this poll are reflective of this need for compromise. I say it all evolves around whats going to happen in the GP & Bonne segment. AND once again the affordable, reliable AWD card. Still the NEastern lower income working class is not going to want to be forced into an expensive AWD option on a RWD car when they have had plenty of affordable, worry free FWD cars to drive for decades, or they are going to head to the local Honda dealer. Actually they have been heading to the local Hyundia and Kia dealers, I dont think a RWD G6 and GTO is going to stop them ? this is a really tuff call and I know it

Oh yea, thats just right full of comedy how could anyone not miss it ?

why are you so easily distracted ?

:rotflmao: now that was truely hillaryous

experience much ?

Well cant be everyone protected by daddys fat pocket. Ignorance comes in many fashions. Presidents? Its not like they have ever gotten anything accomplished anyhow. Well the Bushman made sure he left his tracks, something like war, insane debt, poor ecomomy and unfair trade should get him 3/4 of a page in history. If Hillary were to be elected would we have to shut the government down for one week a month ? or do we only need to worry about hot flashes ? Maybe she'll legalize white collar crimes, oh wait, to late, its already an unwrittin law. The Canadians ? The Canadians are my Brothers.

Well, OC I do appreaciate your giving us this information. Its very interesting and it also sounds like you had a real fun job there. Thats cool ! I knew the L67 was in development as well as the 4T60 & 65E HD tranny but did not hear that it was tested in Reatta. Just the gossip about a turbo Reatta. I have always been suspect of Buicks castration. There was alot that was kabosched it seems to me. The GN, but then turbo6 revived 2 years later to do a Pontiac ??????????? Okie dookie. 2dr LeSabre killed but yet the "new" 2dr. Lumina looked remarkable similar in styling as did the "new" Seville. Buicks NASCAR efforts were stopped. 2dr. LeSabre H was NASCAR body but then 2dr W Regal became the body........next thing you know its the Z34 and that was that. Buick got that 4dr 92 Lesabre and a PA Ultra (thank goodness, it was something), at least the W Regal did recieve the Buick V6 and got away from the Chevy 60*. Thing is as soon as someone points out these areas of concern you get nailed with the "everythings a conspiracy" treatment. 92 Reatta therefore could have had the S1 L67, but sales had already faded and it would have been 4 years old. In other words too little too late. this may have been the problem with the N* Allante as well, too little too late. Saddest part to me is and I have mentioned it many many times. The division that gave us that most excellent V6 got little back in return. Just castrated and left in the corner to bleed to death, yet Im sure the money and reputation earned from the powerplant floated GM through the 80's & 90's. Not Cadillac with the troublesome aluminum block/iron head V8 and not Chevy with the somewhat troublesome 60* V6's and apparently cheap cars (so everyone says). Oh well, I just wish more people realized how much Buick helped to keep the ball rolling and get us into more modern tec successfully, something that was less successfull at other divisions. Once again the 1986 Buick LeSabre GN, the new aerodynamic body that replaced the GN for Buicks use in NASCAR. In production the car started a new styling trend for GM and put to good use the new developement of ECM (engine control module) and tight FWD powertrain. Long live B U I C K

Wow, I didnt say much except I could not listen and didnt get much from it. I did read what you said and didnt get much from that either. I just have a screen and keyboard. No audio, no scanner, no printer. Sorry ! The new computor left town, this is what I have. So let me guess what these people said or the basis of it. They probably said things that indicated the money was very good and came easy and that they were greatful for their great American jobs ? Probably indicated that they were more than willing to concede to more reasonable levels. Product ??? Maybe they said they thought it was garbage, maybe they said they thought it was great ? Maybe they said they dont give a hoot about the product and did all they could to make it inferior garbage ? One things for sure we wont know if you dont tell us. What ever it was, why cant so many of you come to grips with the fact that that was the way the American economy became molded in our times of great productivity, advancement and prosperity ? Now in less than one decade the brainiacs of this country are rewritting the book and it only benefits those few. You had made a comment about how there was not much response to the topic, well I attempted to, but could not "listen" and so stated. Yet I/we get this "I caveated in the first post, listen and do not read. Yet the two of you just spew opinion from out of nowhere. I suggest you take the time and hear what people have to say instead of shooting from the hip. It might make for some interesting discussion." When.... we both opened our posts by saying we could not listen. So we "caveated" in first sentence of our first post that we could not listen. Im not real smert and dont follow along real well but I believe that was pretty much a request from us to get some kind of an outline on what we were missing......????? Thanks :unsure:

Nonsence ! Your mad because somebody else makes a better living than you. Your mad because someone else has some benefits you do not have. Im not, I have no retirement, I have no insurance, whatsoever. Im not mad at these people and other people that got better jobs than me. I applaud them. Retiremnet plans were set up in this country many many years ago. They were well thought out and planed for. They were working excellent. Then they came up with 401's for the cheaper employers, where they might throw in $500 or $1000 per year. A joke actually. then for the rest they developed the IRA but many were only living week to week on a paycheck so IRA's will do little in the end. I also bet many lost all or most of it when our little puke schemers decided to play a little wall street money making scheme. The parts of our economy that are thriving are the parts that makes extra money paying other countries citizens to do work dirt cheap. Another part is the health care industry that is thriving quite well stealing money like candy from a baby. Another part it the insurance industry that has gotten our government to regulate and mandate everything except themselves. Service ? service what ? just what services are needed today that have not always been needed ? So if you feel as you do, then you also feel , corporate officers do not deserve a retirement......or bonuses......or health insurance......or life insurance.......or free phone calls......or company trips and vacations......company car.....or obscene wages ? Are you sure employees are asking for way to much or is this free but not so free trade comming a bit cheap ? it takes a special sort to be a car salesman.......... dont it ? tic toc tic toc tic toc tic toc

I cant listen either but didnt get much from reading it. Just that people made a good living...........as it should be

Reatta was based on the Riv/Toro therfore it used it powertrain. It was the best drivetrain available at the time. Or ever :P The 4T60 was up against enough stress with the current torque of the LN3-C. The 91 Reattas have the L27 @170hp 225 or 230 lb ft. There really wasnt another powerplant to use, that was Buicks powerplant and by far nothing to be ashamed of. Like someone else said that was respectable power at that time. There was once a statement made by a "real" Buick person on another site about how the Reatta was not a "real" Buick because it didnt have a huge engine and was underpowered, ect, ect, ect. So this guys pet car/ "real" Buick was a 71 Boattail Riv. I did the research and showed him how the 91 Reatta with the L27, the best Reatta was faster, braked better and handled better than a 71 Riviera GS, the best Boattail. I beleive there was track testing done of a turbo charged Reatta but like I said the 4T60 just wont live if pounded, even with the then current torque of the LN-3-C. Thankfully no one but Caddy used those V8's, thats Caddys cross to bare Reattas downfall for performance was it weighed something like 3500 lb :blink: , thats fat for a two seater. Combine that with the price tag and utility value and you have a low volumn seller. If it weighed 2800 as it should have it would have been alot faster. So to answer this "HOW come the Buick Reatta never garnered a more responsive powertrain than the 165hp 3800 V6? " Because there was'nt one. Edit: I should add that the 38 performed as it did to meet fuel economy and emmisions. For a car the price of Reatta and it being a low volumn speciality vehical they could have easily tweeked another 15-20 HP out of it. Performance was not the big deal back in the 80's that it is today. Everyone was happy to have a V6 luxury car and getting 20-26 mpg, something that just a few years earlier required driveing a 4 cyl. eco box