razoredge

The only car here that does much for me is the Olds in Harleys sig. thats the best photo Ive seen yet. Great backdrop compared to most.

I believe G6/GTO is a sound idea. My only concern is abandoning the low-mid 20's FWD segment. If GP was placed there or remainded there thats fine but leaving it all together may loose sales, they could still come out better overall but some research nationally as well as Canada would give a better handle on the FWD/RWD preference. It certainly is only an issue in the snow belts. Currently the G6 is Pontiacs small FWD. If GP & Bonne were to merge as was once predicted this would be the larger car. So what sold better, the GA or the GP ? In which areas ? All this would have to be looked into. Its becoming increasingly clear that a AWD drivetrain needs to be brought into the picture. It will alleviate this problem, however costs could send customers over to Honda and VW or the king of AWD Subaru.

Now that my friend was funny ! Hey"if they dont wanna know forget about em ! " finger tip steering :AH-HA_wink: Seriously I believe a wheel needs to be styled and I have seen some nice ones, but there is more to think about. I believe my wheel option is well worth looking into, how much investment could there be ? Most likely more would be spent by some commitee to determine if it would be worth doing than the tooling & design would cost. No one has ever offered that and to some people it could make a difference. small print: my 86 LeSabre Limited has a nicely inlaid, medium dia., thin, red wheel, with spokes at 8:00 & 4:00 - perfect (for me). "tumescent" whew wee ? had to look that one up.

Wouldnt that be more of a fender extension , Fly ? because they are not up, just out ? Id say this was more of one of the last use of the razoredged tailfins. We still had raised edges on rear quarters later but not real knife edged fins.

So whats with de tuning the 3.6 for Buick ? theres no competition with Caddy. Our SC 3800 is more responsive than the 3.6, It should be at 280 lb ft and all the "thrashing" is priceless :o That "quick" Uglyon is geared like a tractor, it better be fast to 60. All across America, Toyota buyers are lining up at traffic lights to blow the doors off the competition..... but no one can look them in the eye

So whats a water closet ? Is that the meaning of Loozernie ? Im going to drive to work in my new water closet ? So oo is pronounced like U ? you know.... YOU so just where in the F did oo come from ? as well ? also ? :lol:

I agree with griffin, as to how the GTO needs to share plant and basic chassis and some sheet metal with another model and platform. It does need to be RWD, but there are a few things Im unsure of. Whats going on with GP ? Are you suggesting Pontiac abandon FWD altogether ? This will loose them many customers here in the NE. Pontiacs market in these parts seems to be a car for the ladies that want something with sex appeal. I understand the idea of "there are alot of other FWD GM's" for people to choose from but Im not sure it works that way. While I perfer nitch cars myself there has already been much said about the Solstice and if it will ever pay for itself. I really need to hear about whats going on with the GP and the void left by Bonneville. I think there is some mistakes being made here, then theres the little thorn - saturin

Now were getting all the way around the full story. You get what you give. Why keep fighting the V6. HF V8's down to 3 litre. Theres currently a 4.3 and larger, so two smaller engines ? For smaller cars. Never happen, these new V6 Alloytecs will have a long run........ it might be a good time to start thinkin ahead. I believe cars are going to have to shrink again, this gasoline thing, there cant be a real, real good future in 2 ton cars. Imagine an extremely effecient, [fuel, power, size&weight] hf alloy 3.0 in a 3200 lb or less car. Preferably 3000 lb..... must burn corn :AH-HA_wink: Im tired :lol:

I have no connection to "loo" what so ever. How come I dont get it ? So its not Lou(Lew) cern ? loo as in look ? which would come out almost sounding like Le.... as in Sabre.

A steering wheel is a tool not a design statement. Function should always take precedence over appearence when its the primary tool used to control a two ton death missle. :) No, its a matter of comfort, really, like PurdueGuy said. It sounds like he likes the 6:00 position, myself I like 7:00, 9:30, 12:00, and 2:30 positions so the four spokers really make me fidgety. sixty8's two spoker might be out for me because 7:00 is occupied. I simply love the late 80's Buick and Oldsmobile 2 spoke wheels. Spokes are at 8:00 & 4:00 so there is no interference for me whatsoever. My 91 Regal had the same layout and also had radio controls on wheel, including on/off. Delta Force - Im not sure if there is a connection but I see the similarity. I think those old wheels were flat across the top however and really were not very sharp, to me anyhow. I might be comfortable with this new Cadillac wheel, but I dont think my checking account would be :lol: That Datsun wheel is different ! Actually not a bad layout for a grey interior. Now see, I just came up with a new sales gimmic. There should be three steering wheel options to suit the driver. GM can be the first to market with that. Then and only then will they be class leading ! :CG_all:

Yes OC, and the GTO lost out to the Mustang due to the gotta have factor. So unless someone interpreted that as an insult to the GTO it was fairly compared, but then it was the best in many areas of the test, yet a looser. Problem is its just like any tale or folklore. As time goes by and word is passed around and people talk things get twisted. That seems like alot of what happens around here. The STS-V didnt beat the M5 so some immeadiatly said the twin turbo N* was not enough. Yet it was the smallest engine putting some awesome power per litre to the road. This same business could have a negitive effect on the Solstice. The new Mazda beat it to market and has a differnt kind of top, now to many this means Mazda rules and Solstice is just another GM that was not good enough. I think these people need to test a car and give its merits and keep the little opinions and cute comments to themselfs. One little word or phrase properly implanted could cost thousands of sales and most like has. Take this site for example.....if someone was looking for a new or used car, and came here to find out about GMs past and present they would leave, fully convinced that GM <Yugo. The very best Toyota and Honda publicity is right here on this forum. They should get their publicity and marketing people right on this _ _ _ _

:lol: This was kinda funny. All I could think of was how do you pronounce "loo", I have no idea what so ever. As in look ? or Loose ? But here Id been thinking Lou as the human name. You know short for Lewis, but then it should be Lew ? or wait maybe its short for Louis but then in French thats pronounced Louis, OMG beat me with a dictionary :lol: then is it cern or sern or is there something special you need to do with your tongue and the roof of your mouth to get the proper effect ? Say what you will but the name is seriously foreign to me, thereby giving me the impression I need some kind of accent and long blond braids to get the proper effect. So the question is, is it a long U or a short u ? Or can I go with Le so as to retain a bit of the LeSabre? Now was that Lee Sabre or La Sabre ? Bre or Ber ? You know those letter names might just work out for the best. :P

What do you mean "yes so" ? What the hell kind of attitude is that ? The Buick of today is the Buick of today because the fortune made off the massive volumn of BOP cars was spent on Fiat, Cadillac, satanurine and millions worth of management bonuses. Times change - oh really, thanks for the education. Good idea to update ! well they did until no more money was available and the division became ignored, no ! worse than ignored, it was widdled down to two automobiles with little mechanical R&D. All funds went into saving Cadillac from the dead, not that Im complaining but when someone wants to bash Buick ignoring the history of the past 20 years Im going to stand up ! I wish some people would stop running around talking like some of us dont know nothing about nothing. 6 sp tranny, bla bla bla, why ? cause its got two more? toot, toot. Mercedes own press release about their multi speed tranny stated it offered little more than smoother shifts. No improved gas milage, I think it shaved an entire 1/10 or 2/10 of a second of a quarter mile. Now thats a "yea so". All that money for nothing but more complicated problems and searching transmissions. Well ya gotta have it now because the others do and the mechanically challenged believe its the next best thing to..........

Thanks Eight !, not that that will sink in to anyone that needs to obsorb it. All they need to know is that GM & BUICK never did nothing but sit around and watch the clouds drift by. :rolleyes: I envy you on that brochure. I have many Olds and Buick from the 70's & 80's but not that one. Didnt know there was one. I went to the 100 years of Buick tour that came through 3 or so years ago and when I saw that Wildcat I couldnt believe my eyes. I only got back into cars within the last 10 years and slowly at that. So this Wildcat was a shocker to me, actually shamefully so was the Wildcat II on display, I never knew. What a beautiful engine that aluminum DOHC 3.8 was but I guess my memory became distorted over the years. We forgot to take the camera and there really isnt any good shots over the rear deck of the engine on line, that I have found. We also had the Oldsmobile Aerotec around the same time period that had a few things going for it. These performance items and gidget gadgets were not important back then, now today every car from a cheap econo box to a pickup truck must have every possible gimick imaginable and a few yet to be thought of or your not "class leading" :rolleyes:

They also could not have led the small car trend, it was a lame market. Most of the US customers did not want little 4 cyl cars. It was a slow change in the market. Many were still fighting the downsizing of Domestic cars even recently. GM changed slowly and gradually as American taste or desires changed. Just now they are comming together with what the Japanese have. Japanese cars have gotten larger and Domestics smaller. It seems to me much of this bad press could have been avoided if the compact cars GM did build during the 70's,80's & 90's were of the quality that the large BOP cars were.

They have led some "trends", some trends that were not worth leading. Digital dashes and dash screens Onstar ABS ? styling for the most part was always better until recently. Now the Japs have some striking cars, a higher percentage than 10 years ago. 20 years ago forget it, Japanese cars were freaks of nature.

So in that case you'll be working for crap shovelers wages because that seems to be your only "skill" ? If this were the case with pay through out this country, everyone would be working for alot less. Many as much as 100 times less, perhaps a few, a MILLION times less !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I understand what you are saying correctly I agree and stated something similar, earlier in this topic. The 2.8 is too small for this size car. It should be used in smaller cars but then again it seems it has no benefits above the 3.6, if it weighs the same and has the same overall dimensions. Does it achieve better mileage ? Unrelated but to the topic : I do have a gigantic concern about haveing engines in our N American GMs that are not made in our country. Miight as well drive a Hyundia, whats the point of haveing N.American or what we have always called Domestics auto manufactures when its just a front to pedal products built overseas. Do they pay income tax's to support our infrastructure ? Now the engine is going on its second year in production and we are crying in the US to get this "new" technology standard in the upscale cars........yet where is it? Austrailia, thats where it is. Not a problem with Austrailia but the N American market is where GM is dying, not haveing a DOHC V6 engine plant in the US that can produce the volumn that 38's were once sold at is a terrible display of foresite. So here we sit, twidelin' our thumbs. Saab has a turbo 2.8, Caddy a twin turbo 4.3, Pontiac & Chevy a 5.3 V8, Pontiac the SC 3800, and Buick.....the former Domestic KING of the Turbo V6 and American V6 combined with some darn good V8's of interest...........nothin', nothin', notta !!!!!!! We get a detuned expensive N* or a detuned naturally asperated 1996 Series II with a stupid electronic throttle butterfly. BFD !!!!!!!!!!!!! Im not tryin to flog the dead horse as Im always accused of but does anyone know or remember that in 1985 the Buick Wildcat show car had a belt drivin SOHC aluminum 3.8 that had the then new technology of ECM controled fuel delivery & ratio, spark advance, knock sensors, ect., ect. :blink: I think it produced 230 but was kinda low in torque. Actually fastautos say this for 85 Wildcat but Im not sure if its correct. Engine Type: V6 Displacement: 3785 cc Horsepower: 360 bhp @ 7000 rpm Torque: 398 lb-ft @ 5000 rpm Redline: ---- rpm Performance 0-60 mph: 4.5 sec 0-100 mph: --.- sec Quarter Mile: --.- sec @ --- mph Skidpad: .--g Top Speed: 180 mph Curb Weight: 2910 lbs The concept site at trishield.com says this Wildcat, 1985 -- This spectacular red model incorporates four-wheel drive and a McLaren engine based on Buick's 3.8-liter V-6 block, mounted just behind the seats. The engine has 24 valves, dual overhead camshafts and field-programmable sequential-port fuel injection. Unlike other Buick dream cars, this one emphasized engine. The top of the powerplant is visible through an opening in the rear deck. Type: 3.8L V-6 Displacement: 231 cu.in. HP @ rpm: 230 @ 4000 so Im a little confused, my memory from two years back while looking at the engine was it only had one large sprocket per bank, well what ever it was they did it back in '85 That was 20 years ago last show season !!!!!! As we know from then, 1986 and on, the 38 drove the wheels of all Bonneville, LeSabre, Delta 88, Park Avenue and Regency, in addition to other models with the option. It sold in huge volumns and recieved much satisfaction.......yet after 2 decades now we sit here at Buick twidelin our thumbs wondering were the hell our engine is ? :unsure:

Great choices there guys Eldorado P1800 Estate 260Z Cruiser how about Sportwagon/Vista me ? This week 66 Riviera GS, Im in a twin carb. nailhead kinda mood or maybe that 63 Holiday with the 394 B)

I highlighted the only things I see that are relevent to what you are saying. I still feel it was a dump pub stunt. I dont see where it says anything to place the entire car line up inferior. Once again I still believe that when refering to the 80's & 90's all of GM is taking the rap for the little compact cars that everyone and anyone knows GM nor Ford nor Chrysler for that matter have ever done well. I'm not sure if you are aware of what was going on in mid-full size at BOP in 85/86 thru- today, it certainly was not flawless but it was not inferior or cheap or primitive. the Japanese cars were also not flawless during these decades. Im not makeing excuses, that BS, I have no reason to make excuses. The H/C & W body cars that had the Buick V6 in them were excellent cars, mechanically, I myself liked the styling, great material plentiful interiors, not like todays cars but at that time they were the best ever in typical family cars, today all cars have the sports car interior. Oh well, back then they did not. Im not trying to shoot any of you self proclaimed "messengers". Im saying your only reading one half of the message. The one that suits your arguement, much the same as the media does. It aint hard to talk people out of buying something and it aint hard to talk them into it to if you have that "final word" position. So Im not going to jump on that GM's all inferior Train some of the others are riding on around here. Sorry to let you down but it makes me feel....... oh so good to not be swayed by innaccurate bias !

Yes I agree with most of this. Now the question is, which makes the best driving experience ? When your driving a four, you know, no mistakin it. Then with the V6 you have that odd cylinder count. Now with the V8 you have smoothness and sound. If you save 200 per engine, production cost, are you ahead of the game when the extra work and results of a V8 could bring you .......another 1000? per car ? [Im just pulling numbers out of the air, I have no idea how much total costs to manufacture an engine run]

So how many tiers ? and do certian skill areas, say such as mechinist or others have a higher rate, ect. ? Im just trying to get a better understanding of how that pay is laid out. Everyone seems to grab that high number and imbed that to memory. Then thats all we hear about. Like the $8o,ooo per year.

:lol: :rolleyes: "This is about America as a whole and how low are we going to lower our people" where did I say "this" was about day traders ? "there would be no Buick, Saturn, HUMMER, or SAAB." yarite - then there would be Chevy and Cadillac........the two divisions that got all the heat for some really poor design and engineering late 70's - 80's and still today at Chevy. If you cant think outside dont make assumptions about the meanings of some of my statements or that they are directly related to some tiny picture. Because they are most likey never related to the little story. And this is certainly no little story. Its a big fat extremely important moment in N. American history, and its problems are not only rooted as deep as one player. Go Large !