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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    New York 2012: 2013 Nissan Altima


    William Maley

    Editor/Reporter - CheersandGears.com

    April 3, 2012

    Nissan was planning to show off the new 2013 Altima tomorrow at the New York Auto Show. But the internet struck once again, releasing pictures and information about it.

    The new Altima borrows a lot of styling from the larger Maxima. Sharp lines, more aggressive front fascia, large headlights pulled back over the fenders, short decklid, and angular boomerang taillamps finish the look.

    Inside the Altima, the cabin presents a clean, simpledesign with what looks to be an easy-to-navigate center stack and an organized instrument cluster. The instrument cluster also includes a four-inch color TFT display in between the speedometer and tachometer, that displays turn-by-turn navigation,blind spot monitoring, tire pressure, audio data, trip information and other things.

    Powertrain wise, the Altima is still offered with a four-cylinder and V6. The base 2.5L four-cylinder gets some improvements in the form of a magnesium oil pan, variable low intake manifold, and a new alternator. Those changes up horsepower from 175 to 182, while torque stands at 180 lb-ft. The 3.5L V6 carries over with 270 HP and 258 lb-ft. Both engines go through a CVT transmission.

    Fuel economy on the Altima stands at:

    2.5L four: 27 City/38 Highway

    3.5L V6: 22 City/30 Highway

    Nissan has also put the 2013 Altima on diet. Compared to the outgoing model, the 2013 model is 79 lbs lighter. That's due to Nissan using lightweight materials including an aluminum hood.

    As for the driving experience, Nissan says new Altima will be much more of a driver's car than the outgoing model thanks to new multi-link rear suspension setup and a feature called Active Understeer Control. Active Understeer Control brakes the front wheels to reduce understeer while cornering.

    Press Release is on Page 2


    All-New 2013 Nissan Altima Tops Mid-Size Sedan Class in Style, Fuel Economy, Performance and Innovation

    Segment Defining Innovations, Wrapped in "Class Above" Exterior and Interior Design, Create a Customer Experience That's Unmatched in Segment

    Two decades after the original Nissan Altima revolutionized the traditional mid-size sedan segment in North America, Nissan's best-selling vehicle is about to shake up the category all over again. Making its world debut at the New York International Auto Show, the 2013 Nissan Altima is once again poised to become the new benchmark in the hotly contested segment when it goes on sale at Nissan retailers nationwide this summer.

    The new Altima offers numerous segment defining attributes that enhance the ownership experience and provide real customer value, including:

    • Targeted best-in-segment 38 mpg highway fuel economy* (2.5-liter engine)

    • Premium exterior styling with a powerful presence and improved aerodynamics

    • Upscale interior rivaling premium luxury sedans, including NASA-inspired "zero-gravity" seats, an Advanced Drive-Assist™ Display and BOSE® Premium Audio System

    • An outstanding balance of ride comfort, stability and fun-to-drive demeanor, including projected best-level acceleration

    • Standard Bluetooth® Hands-Free Phone System and Streaming Audio via Bluetooth®

    • NissanConnectSM and NissanConnectSM Navigation integrated smartphone connectivity suite with hands-free text message integration, Pandora® playback, real-time Google® POI search and more

    • Next-generation Safety Shield Technologies, including Blind Spot Warning (BSW), Lane Departure Warning (LDW) and Moving Object Detection (MOD) systems

    • Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) with Easy Fill Tire Alert

    "In a segment as critical as this, with longtime nameplates and new challengers fighting for every sale, it's not enough to just target the competition. You have to think outside – and far above – the segment," said Brian Carolin, senior vice president, Sales and Marketing, Nissan North America, Inc. "We created the new Altima to set a clearly recognized benchmark for many years to come."

    Most Innovative Altima Ever

    The 2013 Altima is one of five all-new Nissan models set for introduction in the next 15 months and, as the second best-selling car in the United States in 2011, much is riding on the new fifth generation Altima.

    "The safe thing to do would be to follow other automakers' paths, conservatively evolving the Altima so as not to upset the existing owner base. But that would not be in keeping with Nissan's 'Innovation for All' philosophy," explained Carolin. "We took our most successful model and changed nearly everything – the look, the feel, the driving experience and, of course, the technology down to even the headlights and windshield wipers."

    The result is a vehicle that builds on the strong fundamental reputation, earned over four generations and two decades, for quality and reliability and adds new levels of innovation, fuel-efficiency, dynamic performance and premium style.

    "Against a fragmented competitive set, the new Altima is hands-down the most engaging, purposeful and energetic vehicle in class," said Carolin. "If you've liked the previous Altima, you'll love this one even more. And if you've never driven an Altima before, get ready to have your notion of a mid-size sedan redefined."

    A Premium Presence

    Among the new Altima's many new features, perhaps the one that stands out most is its "class above" appeal, which is apparent at first look and first touch of both the exterior and interior executions.

    "Mid-size sedan buyers are traditionally motivated first and foremost by the rational aspects of the purchase decision – excellent value, reliability and comfort, which Altima shares with a number of other nameplates. But Altima buyers have never been satisfied with owning just another boring mid-size sedan," said Carolin. "The new Altima meets all of the rational purchase reasons, but delivers them in a way that is also emotionally rewarding. And it does so through both its dynamic appearance and dynamic driving performance."

    The 2013 Altima's all-new exterior design starts with its wide, aggressive stance and dramatic front end styling. Though retaining the same wheelbase as the previous generation Altima, it has a wider front and rear track (+1.4 inches) and deeper fenders (+0.8 inches each side) – which combine with a crisp new grille design, seamless bumper and projector-type headlights to create a bold, sophisticated appearance.

    Altima's new "premium proportions" continue with the longer sloping rear roofline and raised trunk that combine to create a more fluid silhouette. The A-pillar angle is now slightly more sloped, and the drip rail has been lowered and the waistline raised. In addition, the deep-stamped trunk has been raised and expanded. The new body design is capped by large taillights (with LED taillights standard on SL models) that flow from the rear into the bodysides. Chrome trim and door handles accent the available palette of eight rich exterior colors. Attention to aerodynamic fine-tuning gives the new Altima a lower coefficient of drag.

    "The new Altima represents an astonishing transformation – fresh but still pure Altima, aggressive and premium at the same time. The new look is fit and athletic, just the way Altima drives," added Carolin. "And inside, the interior is nothing short of a revolution – with one of the most dynamic, involving and complete makeover Nissan interior designs ever."

    The new Altima's interior defies mid-size sedan convention, rivaling upscale luxury sedans in ambience and sophistication. Like the exterior, there is a premium look and feel – from the driver's side cockpit to the front passenger and rear seating areas – with extensive use of upscale, soft-touch materials and craftsman-like attention to detail.

    "The new Altima's interior offers just the right balance of mature sophistication with a highly dynamic and emotional edge. It's refined, not gimmicky, with features that you'd expect to find on a much more expensive vehicle," said Carolin.

    NASA-Inspired "Zero-Gravity" Seats, Quiet Cabin

    In the desire to help reduce the fatigue experienced during long commutes or extended road trips, Nissan turned to seating and posture research from the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). According to NASA, the least fatiguing seats are those that come closest to a "neutral posture" – a relaxed position that the human body takes in a weightless environment.

    Utilizing a new articulated seat shape with continuous support from the pelvis to the chest and distribution of localized deformation characteristics, the "zero-gravity" Altima seats help reduce muscular and spinal loads, and improve blood flow – thereby helping reduce fatigue over long periods behind the wheel. Seat surface perforations provide increased ventilation, breathability and comfort. Heated front seats are also available.

    "Reducing driver fatigue is something that shouldn't be limited to luxury vehicles, especially as Americans are making longer commutes and looking for alternatives to flying for business trips or family vacations," said Carolin.

    Along with premium seat comfort, the new Altima offers premium quietness through efforts to reduce cabin noise coming from the powertrain (new engine and exhaust mount designs), climate system (increased HVAC mounting rigidity) and the body (increased body rigidity) versus the previous Altima design. New noise absorption materials with a 30 percent increase in absorption capability (versus previous Altima) are also used throughout the cabin, including areas such as the roof trim, instrument panel and floor mats.

    The 2013 Altima offers standard cloth seating with a 6-way driver's seat and a 4-way adjustable front passenger seat, 60/40 split folding rear bench seat with armrest, and Piano Black interior trim with chrome finish accents.

    Also available, depending on model, are leather-appointed seats and trim, 8-way power-adjustable driver's seat with power lumbar support, and metallic texture (Charcoal interior) or wood tone (Blond interior) trim finishers.

    Available audio systems include an AM/FM/CD design with RDS, MP3, aux-in and six speakers, along with a BOSE® Premium Audio System with nine speakers (including woofers), designed in conjunction with BOSE® engineers during vehicle development to deliver rich sound and acoustics. The new Altima is available with SiriusXM™ Satellite Radio (SiriusXM™ subscription required, sold separately), and Pandora® radio capability (requires capable smartphone).

    "With its range of available audio features, the quiet Altima cabin is an ideal place to enjoy various music collections – whether you plug in your iPod®, sync with Pandora® to explore new tunes, or let someone DJ from the back seat with Bluetooth® Streaming Audio," said Carolin.

    New NissanConnectSM and NissanConnectSM with Navigation

    Along with the new seat design, two other items that set the 2013 Altima apart are its new NissanConnectSM and Advanced Drive-Assist™ Display (ADAD).

    The 2013 Altima is the first Nissan vehicle to offer NissanConnectSM, which offers Bluetooth® Hands-free Phone System and Streaming Audio via Bluetooth®, along with available integrated Hands-Free Messaging Assistant, Pandora® integration, USB connection for iPod® interface and other compatible devices and SiriusXM™ Satellite Radio (SiriusXM™ subscription required, sold separately). It includes a 5.0-inch color audio display with SV and SL models.

    With the available Hands-Free Text Messaging Assistant (part of NissanConnectSM), drivers can manage incoming text messages via voice control without taking their hands from the wheel or eyes off the road. Drivers are alerted to an incoming text and, after initiating the system, can hear the text read out loud and respond via voice recognition, or via the steering wheel switches using pre-set answers such as "driving, can't text," "on my way," "running late," "okay" or a custom message.

    The NissanConnectSM with Navigation system is similarly packed with a rich range of features and is incredibly easy to use with its 7.0-inch touch-screen, 3D-effect map views, Voice Recognition, and turn-by-turn navigation integrated into the Advanced Drive-Assist™ Display. With the ability to search destinations via Google®, POI data will never be out of date. Other new next-generation navigation features include speed limit display, eco driving maps, curve warning, and split-screen display.

    Advanced Drive-Assist™ Display

    The new Advanced Drive-Assist™ Display comes standard on every model and is customizable, easy-to-use and integrates key information right in front of the driver.

    Located in the center of the instrument display between the tachometer and speedometer, it features a 4.0-inch color display, more than 400 percent larger than the previous generation Altima's vehicle information display. Utilizing more natural 3D-effect graphics, it helps the driver to keep his or her eyes on the road longer than a traditional center-stack information monitor.

    "Drivers today are inundated with a flood of information from external devices, which can distract their attention from the road at any given moment," said Carolin. "The Advanced Drive-Assist™ Display is an intuitive and thoughtful feature that helps make life in an Altima a little easier."

    The system is customizable and adjustable using the steering wheel controls, so drivers can view the information that is most important to them, including:

    • Audio system display

    • Instant MPG

    • Trip computer

    • Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) with individual tire pressure readouts

    • Navigation system (if equipped), with destination turn-by-turn information and compass, and the ability to match the on-screen vehicle image with the actual car color

    The ADAD's color LCD screen displays are similar to those used in portable consumer electronic devices, with cognition enhanced by the depth and tilt of the display.

    Three screens are always available (CarView, Vehicle Settings and Active Vehicle Warnings) and the driver can also select four other active screens among seven other available screens.

    On vehicles equipped with NissanConnectSM or NissanConnectSM with Navigation, the Advanced Drive-Assist™ display shows navigation destination turn-by-turn information, Pandora® song information and more.

    Safety Shield Technologies

    In addition to its many other functions, the Advanced Drive-Assist™ Display can be linked to three new available safety features – Blind Spot Warning (BSW), Lane Departure Warning (LDW) and Moving Object Detection (MOD) – typically offered only on more upscale vehicles. It is the first time that LDW and MOD will be offered in the segment. The three systems are part of the optional Technology Package, which also includes the NissanConnectSM with Navigation with 7.0-inch color touch-screen and steering wheel navigation system controls. Thanks to the use of the systems' advanced, next-generation rearview camera, the BSW, LDW and MOD are integrated, intuitive and affordable.

    The Blind Spot Warning System uses the rearview camera to scan the Altima's blind spots and alerts the driver if there is a vehicle in the zone. The driver is then alerted with audible and visual indicators. In the same way, the Lane Departure Warning system uses the rearview camera to monitor lane markings and alerts the driver if the vehicle unintentionally crosses these markers. Moving Object Detection detects moving objects, such as other vehicles, when the rearview camera is engaged when backing up and warns the driver with visual cues.

    "Like so many other features on the new Altima, these Safety Shield Technologies are designed to help ease the anxieties of daily life. For example, parallel parking outside of school, the camera not only helps you see backwards, but also has moving guides that help you into tight spaces. At a busy shopping center, the camera can give you a 180-degree view side-to-side and the MOD system can help alert you to movement when backing out," said Carolin.

    "And getting on a freeway, A-pillar mounted light indicators, along with audible beeps, let you know if there's another vehicle in your blind spot. We're proud to offer these segment-first technologies to Altima owners in keeping with the true spirit of 'Innovation for All.' At Nissan, we believe these features should not be restricted to just premium vehicle buyers," he continued.

    Smart, Dynamic Performance

    "Dynamic Performance, defined as excellent handling, driving confidence and driver excitement, has always been a part of Nissan's core values – from the early Datsun 510 sedan and 240Z sports car to today's 545-horsepower Nissan GT-R. Where the innovation comes in is in being able to offer fuel economy and responsive acceleration without compromising either," said Carolin.

    One key to achieving this modern one-two punch is found not in the drivetrain, but surrounding it – the new body design is about 80 pounds lighter than the previous body, which was already one of the lightest in the class. The new lighter and tighter body is achieved through increased use of high strength and ultra high strength steel, the addition of a larger front tower strut brace (as used in sports cars like the Nissan 370Z), and a new rear structural support built into the rear pass-through/parcel shelf.

    As for the engines, a choice of two proven Altima powerplants – the 2.5-liter DOHC 4-cylinder and 3.5-liter DOHC V6 – are again offered for the new model year.

    The 2.5-liter QR25 engine has been redesigned to be lighter and more efficient. It now includes variable valve timing on both exhaust and intake camshafts, and the new intake system opens the valves at a higher rpm to help keep the torque curve flat. Featuring cutting-edge technology such as a new thermoplastic resin intake manifold, this engine simultaneously produced more power despite being lighter. Horsepower has increased by seven to an estimated 182 hp (from 175 hp), while torque remains the same at 180 lb-ft (est.). The advanced, award-winning VQ35DE 3.5-liter V6 remains rated at 270 horsepower (est.) and 258 lb-ft of torque (est.).

    Targeted Class-Leading Highway Fuel Economy

    Helping increase fuel economy with both engines is the next-generation Xtronic CVT® (Continuously Variable Transmission). Nissan is an industry leader in CVT transmissions, with more than 20 years of experience in CVT design and engineering. For this next-generation design, a full 70 percent of the parts have been redesigned and internal friction reduced by up to 40 percent (versus the previous design). It also features new control logic and expanded gear ratio coverage, which helps reduce noise and fuel consumption while improving drivability and responsiveness.

    "With fewer moving parts, less friction and less drivetrain shock to other parts, Altima's Xtronic CVT® offers better fuel economy, better acceleration and better durability versus a conventional automatic transmission," said Carolin. "It translates the driver's intentions in the most efficient way possible, maintaining the 'right gear' for every situation – creating a highly rewarding driving experience."

    Targeted fuel economy for the Altima 2.5-liter 4-cylinder/CVT combination is 27 mpg city, 38 mpg highway and 31 mpg combined. Fuel economy for the 3.5-liter V6/CVT Altima is rated at 22 mpg city, 30 mpg highway and 25 mpg combined. Also contributing to the improved fuel efficiency are tires with reduced rolling resistance and a new regenerative alternator that only operates when the vehicle is coasting.

    Dynamic Driving Performance

    Building on Altima's reputation for superior dynamic performance, the 2013 Altima offers a redefined multi-link rear suspension benchmarked to leading European sports sedans.

    The design features high lateral suspension stiffness, improved toe angle control (with the addition of new connect bushings) and improved camber angle control under load (for increased tire contact with the road when cornering) versus the previous generation Altima. The suspension also utilizes a new shock absorber design by ZF SACHS, similar to that used on high-end luxury sedans, to deliver stellar body control and response, while simultaneously delivering a plush, comfortable ride. The 2013 Altima's front suspension uses an independent front strut design. Stabilizer bars are utilized front and rear.

    Also used for the first time on a Nissan vehicle and in the segment is a new Active Understeer Control system, which utilizes intelligent control logic and high-response brake actuators to brake the inside front wheels during cornering (as required) to increase yaw-moment. Using the Vehicle Dynamic Control (VDC)/Traction Control System (TCS) as its base, Active Understeer Control is almost undetectable when it operates. It is designed primarily for everyday operation rather than emergency evasive maneuvers.

    "Our target, which we think we've achieved, is to provide outstanding levels of handling and comfort. The more secure and responsive the suspension, the less stress the driver should feel in nearly every driving situation," added Carolin.

    Responsive steering is provided by a new Electronic Hydraulic Power-Assisted Steering (EHPS) system that preserves the feel of hydraulic steering rack while offering the efficiencies of an electric power steering set-up.

    Altima's 4-wheel power-assisted disc brake system was also re-engineered utilizing human ergonomic studies to optimize pedal travel and force, providing a premium blend of immediate response, confident braking and reduced fatigue. Anti-lock Braking System (ABS) and Electronic Brake force Distribution (EBD) are standard.

    A selection of wheels and tires are offered on the 2013 Altima, including 16-inch steel wheels with full covers and 215/60R16 all-season tires, or 17-inch aluminum-alloy wheels with 215/55R17 V-rated all-season tires, on 2.5-liter models. New 18-inch aluminum-alloy wheels with 235/45R18 V-rated all-season tires are standard on 3.5-liter V6-equipped models.

    Details That Make a Difference

    The team behind the development of the new fifth generation Altima didn't stop with the major components and systems – they also made numerous, almost imperceptible enhancements to nearly every aspect of the driving experience.

    The headlights' automatic-on function, for example, offers an improved two-stage function. In lower light situations during the day, the headlights illuminate automatically – but the gauges remain in daylight mode. In late evening/night conditions, the headlights remain illuminated and the gauges revert to nighttime lighting.

    In addition, many states now require the headlights to be illuminated in rainy conditions. In the all-new Altima, after four passes of the windshield wipers, the headlights turn on automatically. If the vehicle is turned off with the wipers in motion, instead of stopping mid-motion, they automatically complete a full cycle – so they don't get frozen to the windshield in icy or snowy conditions.

    The team even paid extra attention to the armrests, equipping them with deep, plush padding in order to enhance comfort mile after mile.

    The new Altima features the Easy Fill Tire Alert function, first introduced on the Nissan Quest, for the Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS). When filling the tires with air, the hazard lamps flash to let the operator know the system is working. When the correct pressure is reached, a beep of the horn provides notification. Unlike many competitive vehicles, Altima's individual tire pressure monitoring and readout system provides the tire pressure at each individual location and automatically adjusts positions when the tires are rotated during service. The information is integrated into the Advanced Drive-Assist™ Display,

    Available from the SV grade is a factory-installed Remote Engine Start System, which allows the owner to heat or cool the vehicle from the comfort of the home. The Altima must be locked for the remote start to operate (up to 10 minutes). The Altima's remote start is the first offered with a Nissan vehicle.

    The 2013 Altima offers a long list of standard safety features, including Nissan Advanced Air Bag System (AABS) with dual stage supplemental front air bags with seat belt sensors and an occupant classification sensor, front seat-mounted side impact supplemental air bags, and roof-mounted curtain supplemental side-impact air bags for front-and rear-seat occupant head protection.

    Seven Well-Equipped Models

    The all-new 2013 Nissan Altima is offered in four 2.5-liter engine equipped models, 2.5, 2.5 S, 2.5 SV and 2.5 SL, along with three 3.5-liter V6 equipped models, 3.5 S, 3.5 SV and 3.5 SL.

    The Altima 2.5 S model includes 6-way power-adjustable driver's seat, Advanced Drive-Assist™ Display, steering wheel-mounted audio controls, cruise control, Nissan Intelligent Key®, six speakers, auto on/off headlights, in-cabin microfilter, Tire Pressure Monitoring System with individual tire pressure readouts, and much more. Altima 3.5 S adds 18-inch wheels and tires, plus paddle shifters with manual mode.

    Altima SV models include Dual Zone Automatic Temperature Control, Remote Engine Start System, leather-wrapped steering wheel, aluminum-alloy wheels (17-inch on 2.5 SV, 18-inch on 3.5 SV), RearView Monitor, NissanConnectSM with Pandora® radio capability, SiriusXM™ Satellite Radio (SiriusXM™ subscription required, sold separately), 5.0-inch color audio display, USB port with iPod® connectivity, Hands-Free Messaging Assistant and more. The 3.5 SV also adds a moonroof, fog lights and HomeLink® Universal Transceiver.

    Altima SL models include leather-appointed seating, BOSE® Premium Audio System with nine speakers (including woofers), 8-way power driver's seat, heated front seats and steering wheel, heated outside mirrors, LED taillights, LED outside mirror turn signals, premium interior trim, power sliding moonroof, auto dimming rearview mirror, and HomeLink® Universal Transceiver and more.

    Just three options packages are available: a Convenience Package (2.5 SV), Navigation Package (SV) and Technology Package (SL) – along with the optional Remote Start and Rear Spoiler.

    The new Altima, like previous generations, will be assembled in Smyrna, Tenn. And Canton, Miss., with engines produced in Decherd, Tenn.

    "The all-new 2013 Nissan Altima offers the whole package – stylish design inside and out, outstanding ride, handling, acceleration and fuel economy, new NissanConnectSM and thoughtful technology solutions not currently found in the segment," concluded Carolin. "For people who enjoy experiencing life to the fullest, we have the new premium mid-size sedan just for them."

    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments

    I like this a lot, and I don't care much for the current car. 38 mpg is amazing for a non-hybrid regular mid size sedan, beating out the Sonata by 3 mpg.

    I like the interior too, it is simple and nicely laid out, has a bit of Infiniti feel with the wood trim. Some of these new interiors are so busy and chaotic, I like this and the Passat for being luxurious for the class, but easy to understand also.

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    H'mmm a boring smaller and slower version of the boring Maxima. Was a fan for certain models of the Maxima, but over the years I just have not gotten an Excitement vibe from the Maxima and the same here, no Excitement vibe from the Altima.

    Just another Baby boomer car.

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She was not wowed by the exterior, felt it was sitting a bit low, bunker style, yet interior had plenty of room, Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported. Solid candidate to consider. Salesperson was nice, normal pushy attempts to have us make a decision, but as we told him, we still had others to test drive. Nice balance of buttons to touch screen. Kia - EV6 / EV9 - Exterior was not bad, was clearly different than many of the other EVs we had seen. EV6 is super tight inside for me, was fine for the wife as was the interface of their dashboard. No one could sit behind me. EV6 was out she said. EV9 was great, more room inside than our Escalade. Anyone could sit behind me, spacious for both of us and would transport anyone in comfort. Liked the exterior styling much more than many of the others we had test drove to date. Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported. Salesperson super nice and not pushy. Solid candidate. Nice balance of buttons to touch screen. Mercedes - EQS, interior was nice, driving was the second quietest behind the Cadillac. Interface was fine, but lower menus seemed cluttered. We liked the interior for the most part, the hard part of this EV was the exterior lack of any real styling. The worst Jellybean style around. Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported, Salesperson was super nice and not pushy, but as we told him when we thanked him for his time, the auto needs an identity. Wife said for her daily driver, this was a hard pass. Rivian - R1T / R1S - Exterior was a win for the wife right up there with the EV9 from Kia. Interior was also a big win as it was spacious and comfortable front and back. Interface was easy to use, over all a nice balance of buttons to touch screen. Sadly, Rivian is off the list as she asked the counselor about Android Auto / Apple Carplay, no support, no plan to support it. Must buy your apps from the Rivian store, failure big time we felt. Bummer as Rivian was a leading candidate for us. Tesla - Due to friends who have Tesla, even with her knowing my dislike for the Tesla CEO, she wanted to check out the Y / X. Overall the experience in talking with their counselor was good, good people skills, they went over the interface with the wife, in the meantime she saw that while I could fit in the Y, no one could sit behind me. in the X I could also fit, but only about 2 inches of space from the back of the seat to the back seat. Wife asked about Android Auto and Apple Carplay, they told her no plans, they offered her a test drive and she passed. Told me it was a bit weird in how you used the single interface in the center of the dash and a few other things, minimalist failure to her. Pass on Tesla. Now that we had spent a long weekend driving so many EVs, I asked her what her thoughts were on what she was leaning towards. She told me give her a few weeks to digest the information and she would let me know. While the wife digested the EV overload of info, I moved onto researching the EV technology of these auto makers. Auto EV Platform Info 2024.pdf One key item is that I do not want to be behind the 8 ball of technology standards. In this case, I am talking about companies that are on 400V platforms versus 800V platforms. in this case, this brings us down to the following, Cadillac, Genesis, Hyundai and Kia as everyone else is on 400V platforms and already have announced that 2025 and 2026 model years will be the conversion to new 800V platforms. Knowing my wife, one does not rush her, when she is ready, she will let me know, weeks passed by and finally one day at breakfast, she said I have an answer for you. I like the Cadillac Lyriq and the Kia EV9 the best. I want heated seats, steering wheel and AWD, otherwise I could care less about other features. In looking on the websites for my local dealerships, the Cadillac dealership that I have bought from before was sold during the pandemic to Brotherton Cadillac of Renton. So Brotherton Cadillac NW is the dealership near me, and the wife and I reviewed all the Lyriqs and settled on the following:  Cadillac Lyriq Sport 2 AWD Celestial Metallic. This paint color is a color shifting paint that covers purple to silver / grey spectrum depending on the light of the day and especially as I discovered sun versus rain. In the sun it is a radiant purplish color and under dark raining weather a serious silver/dark grey.     Chuck Olson Kia which is less than a mile away from Brotherton Cadillac NW on HWY 99 here in the greater Seattle area had a nice assortment EV9s in Wind, Land and GT versions. They had the traditional blue GT and an Ice Green that the wife really liked. So I settled on the Ice Green to test drive and see what the final price would be. Again, like the Lyriq, the ICE Green metallic paint job has a dominant blueness but turns various shades of lite green to greenish blue depending on the light of the day. At this point we get to the nitty gritty of the dealing, Price paid, rebates, final pricing to determine what the deal ends up being. Over dinner, the wife and I discussed the options of buying versus leasing and to both of us, it made sense at this early stage to lease rather than buy an EV. The addition of the IRA $7,500 rebate also played into our decision. For Cadillac the Lyriq qualifies again for the full $7,500 rebate whether you buy or lease, in the case of the Kia, due to manufacturing in Korea, the EV9 only qualifies for the rebate if you lease. This fall, Kia and Hyundai start manufacturing in the US allowing their EVs to get the full $7,500 rebate if buying. For me, I wanted to see what a zero down Lease deal would be as a starting point before paying down. Depending on credit rating, most auto leases require anywhere from $3,000 to $10,000 down and of course the more you pay down, the lower your monthly payment is. The nature of my work allows me flexibility and as such, I was able to go on a Friday morning at 10am to the Brotherton Cadillac NW to test drive the Lyriq Sport 2 edition. In fact the EV is still on the lot now almost two weeks later. New 2024 Blue Cadillac 4dr Sport w/1SJ LYRIQ for Sale North of Seattle, VIN = 1GYKPVRL1RZ127387 (brothertoncadillacnw.com) Upon driving onto the lot, I parked and saw the Lyriq as it shinned in the morning sun giving that purplish glow that my wife liked. I walked up and checked it out externally and it looked great. After about 10 minutes of checking the Lyriq out, I was still not approached by anyone, so I went into the sales floor and asked if I could talk with someone about a Lyriq. First salesperson said I needed to talk to their EV specialist and walked away, a second person came out of a side hallway and asked if I was being taken care of and I told them what just happened, and I was still standing here. He did apologize and asked me to wait just a moment and he would get the specialist.  A young man came out, introduced himself and asked me if I had any special model in mind and if I wanted to take a test drive. I took him out to show him the one I was interested in. He took down their special code and left to get the keys. At this point, over all experience with the dealership was not bad, neutral for me as it is nothing personal, just business and some do it better than others. The sales rep returned with the keys, he opened up the Lyriq and took me on a tour of the auto pointing out many of the features and explaining the functional differences between how it works on the EV versus an ICE auto. This I have to say was very welcomed as it showed me the man had knowledge of the auto and could show / explain to me how it was to be used. I appreciate this as my wife is not a tech person but show her how to do it and she it set, so this was a good start. We did the traditional driver's license and insurance validation, signed on the dotted line and I then took off for a road trip in the Lyriq. Android auto works as expected, over all interface was easy to understand and use with a nice balance of common used items in physical form right under the screen. Steering wheel had all the expected buttons and dials for using the auto. The Noise canceling of the auto gave it a quiet ride that I have never experienced before and still to this day is the best yet of all the EVs I have test driven.  Negative of the Lyriq is that it is not a true SUV, you sit lower more car like and headroom while I would be fine, required me to drop the seat to the bottom of it's settings which makes my driving position even lower. Knowing that this is the wife's auto, I returned to the dealership to talk price. Here is where things started to go south and why people hate dealerships. I tried my best to negotiate in good faith for a fair price on the EV. The dealership replied that it was the hottest ride available and as such no discounts, you paid the price they had on the auto which was MSRP plus $5,000. I informed them that no I was not going to pay over MSRP for an auto that shows over 300 are available in the greater Seattle area.  The Dealership then said fine, they would sell it at MSRP to me. Knowing that I get $7,500 off I was not put off by this but also not happy that they would not go down on the price. I told them at this point I was interested in leasing and wanted to see what the lease rate would be for 15,000 miles a year for three years. Here is where it got ugly.  The sales rep came back to me and had a handwritten piece of paper with a TRD (Total after Rebates and Discounts) price, Lease money factor number, Residual price and monthly payment including tax. The monthly payment was a little over $1,200 a month. I asked to see firm numbers showing the selling price minus the IRA rebate, tax, etc. all lined up so that I can understand the numbers. I was informed this is how leases are done, your rebate is figured into the residual amount and that this is all the accurate info they provide the buyer. If I agree to this, they can then process and sell me the Lyriq. I told the man that this handwritten paper did not explain any of what I asked to verify and see, so they would need to properly print out or hand write all details in order for me to make a decision. The rep left and was gone for about 10 minutes and then came back with another salesperson who reminded me of a traditional wild west snake oil salesman who tried to use the same paper I was shown and yet tell me I was not able to understand the complexities of leases and should trust him on this awesome monthly cost. When I told him I would not accept that vague random info, he then moved into the terrible game of "What can you afford a month?" Here is where many people either give up and accept or leave as they feel overwhelmed, I on the other hand laughed and told him that I would not play his game. Show me the valid real numbers with a final price on the Lyriq before processing for the Lease monthly amount.  My wife always told me I was a very frustrating person when it came to buying an auto as I would push for facts and have on more than one occasion made salespeople cry when they could not get their way playing their monthly afford game. This is how people get ripped off and taken advantage of. The two folks left and came back with the sales manager who tried again with the paper to spin a different tale. At this point, I said fine, I would consider this as I needed to talk with the wife, and she would need to drive the auto anyway before we would buy.  Leaving the Cadillac dealership, I drove south to Chuck Olson Kia, figured I would see how the EV9 drove again and see what kind of deal I could get. Arriving at the dealership, I saw the EV9 I was interested in on the lot, looked it over and turned around to see if I can get some help and a young man greeted me and said he was with another customer, but would let another salesperson know I was looking at that EV9. Only a few minutes later, the sales rep came out, greeted me and had the keys so he opened up the EV and showed me the SUV.  Here the experience was similar in that we took the EV9 in Ice Green for a drive. As I drove it, I was informed about the various features and how they all worked. An overview that was enjoyable as I drove the near silent EV locally. I did notice that it was not as quiet as the Lyriq, but most would not really notice the difference, everything else on the road was far louder. We returned to the dealership and sat down; I asked the rep for the best price on this EV9 he could give me. He left to talk to his manager. Now I was comparing the price of the Lyriq Sport level 2 to this EV9 AWD Land edition and the MSRP price between the two was within a hundred dollars of each other. The EV9 had a number of features that the Lyriq did not have unless I paid substantially more and go to the top end Sport Level 3. At this point the Kia was winning on features giving it a better value due to the two being priced nearly the same. The sales rep came back to the table with a price that was $5,000 off MSRP. I felt based on internet searching that this was a fair price and felt it was good. I asked him then at this price with my IRA rebate of $7,500 what would a three-year lease with 15,000 miles a year cost me per month. The rep said give him a few minutes to have the manager put this in the system and he would come back with a detailed price for me. The salesperson returned about 10 minutes later with a Deal Sheet for me to review. Here is where the difference became clear between this Kia Dealership and the Cadillac Dealership. The Deal Sheet had all the numbers listed out clearly. Any person could walk through this in full understanding. The lease deal, started off with the Stock number for the EV9, had the MSRP listed, discount, then Selling price of the EV9. This was followed by a blank field for accessories or add on sales items as the sales rep explained. The rebate for $7,500 was clearly listed, blank space for Trade, cash cap reduction, license fee, doc fee ending in a final price of the EV that was then broken down by 36 months @ 15,000 miles a year for a Base monthly rental cost and then the sales tax on the whole deal which was broken down into monthly tax rate added to the monthly lease amount. Residual value at the end of the lease, a residual money factor that is a decimal number used to figure out the monthly lease rate. All in all, a very clear understandable deal and the monthly price for the EV9 was $837 per month compared to $1,200 plus for the Cadillac. I told the salesperson that I would need to talk to my wife when she got home tonight and would give him a call back. As I was getting ready to leave, I realized I had forgotten to ask an important question. Could the front driver and passenger windows be tinted to match the rest of the auto. Due to having had skin cancer, blocking out UV plus just having it darker is what I prefer. The sales rep said he believed so but would have to check with his manager and could call me if I gave him my number later. I left him my cell number and headed home. Sitting at home, I was thinking about the experience at the Cadillac dealership and wondering, can it really be that bad at any other dealership? So, I did a search and found the identical Cadillac Lyriq Sport 2 AWD Celestial Metallic at the Bellevue Cadillac dealership and much farther away at Larson Cadillac of Fife. Off to Bellevue I went. Arriving at the Bellevue Cadillac dealership, I was promptly greeted and professionally questioned on the auto I was interested in. The young man was always polite and more than happy to help me. This dealership is one of the newly built from the ground up dealerships that truly echo's Luxury and what I would expect from a luxury dealership. Due to the knowledge of the salesperson like the other dealership, it started off positive, went out to check and see if the auto their website stated they had on hand was actually there. It was, Identical to the one at Brotherton Cadillac NW in Shoreline Washington. At this point, I gave him the same info I had given the other person to see what the pricing would be. Ten minutes later he returned with a printed sheet of paper, that was better than handwritten. Had a set sale price that was a couple thousand off the MSRP, had a rebate of $1,000 showing a reduced price, document fee, licensing and a theft engraving that he said they do on all autos sold there so nothing I could do about not wanting it. The total at the end showed a lease money factor, term, mileage and residual with a base payment of $1,042 dollars. with no money down.  Now two things I noticed, one was that the IRA rebate was not showing anywhere on the paperwork and the second item was that at least their price was over $200 less than the other dealership. I inquired about the $7,500 rebate and he said he did not know and would go ask. Upon returning he said it was factored into the residual value of the Lyriq when I traded it back in. I pointed out that the rebate does not go into a value of the vehicle but is paid to the dealership and so comes off the price of the auto. Things continued to go downhill from here as I was told by him that I did not understand how leasing worked. His sales manager stopped by, and I pointed this out, same response, I do not understand how leasing works. I informed them that I would need to present this to my wife and discuss it with her. They attempted the pressure response of get her on the phone, we can explain it and you can drive home in your new EV. They were not happy with me and would not let me have the paperwork. When they stepped out to talk, I snapped a quick picture of the printed paperwork. Two Cadillac dealerships, two different lease prices on the identically spec / priced Lyriq Sport 2 and no honest showing of where the rebate would end up at.  Heading home this made me wonder about Cadillac and their EV focus which we have since learned in the news has changed to having ICE and EV through 2030 and beyond. At home, I explained my day of EV shopping to the wife, she was disappointed that Cadillac was not forthcoming with their pricing. She liked the looks of the Lyriq as much as the looks of the Kia EV9. At this point the phone rang, and it was the sales rep for Kia. He informed me that yes, the doors could be tinted and that his sales manager if we were willing to move forward with the deal would throw in the front window tinting. We setup an appointment for Saturday morning to go and test drive the EV9 with the wife to ensure she would be happy driving it. For full details on our EV9 Purchase read this story: Now at this point, I figured I would relax for the evening, but I got another phone call from a sales rep at Larson Cadillac who informed me that the Lyriq I was interested was already sold at their dealership, but he could make me another deal on a like existing Lyriq, different color. I informed him that my wife liked the 800V Lyriq in the Celestial Metallic. The man on the other end of the phone said he could see if they could do a trade to get what we were interested in, but he wanted me to understand that the Lyriq was not a true 800V EV. I was surprised by his comment and asked him why it was not a true 800V EV. I learned and have verified that the only EV GM makes that truly can handle 350 kW fast charging is the Hummers, the Lyriq has an 800V electrical system, but the battery packs are first generation and as such only rated at 400V meaning they have a top charging speed of 150 kW. GM is planning to roll out 800V battery packs starting with the Chevrolet and GMC full size pickups. All other EVs will continue to use the 400V battery packs for now. At this point, I thanked the man for his time and would think on it and get back to him. As a person wanting to be current, this takes me to the Kia EV9 only. I did not say anything to my wife about the tech and hoped she would be happy with how it drove. Luckily that was a success the next day. I have spent half my life on the sales side and in training new sales folks there is a pretty basic 5 step process in sales: 1) Greet the customer inquiring what brought them in today 2) Qualify the person on what they want 3) Trial close to see if they are ready 4) Clarify questions and overcome concerns 5) Close the Sale. To accomplish this basic 5 steps, you first have to fully train the individual in what they are selling. Here Cadillac clearly is not or possibly the dealerships are not wanting to ensure everyone know how to sell an EV. Recap of this whole shopping experience is that Kia is nailing it with a professional sales experience, knowledgeable people on their products and a sales / lease process that is clear hiding nothing from allowing you to commit to buying or leasing a new auto. Cadillac on the other hand has left me with the feeling of snake oil salespersons at both dealerships with vague pricing, vague rebates and me wondering just how much they really want to earn my repeat business as I would love to replace my current Escalade with an Escalade IQ, but at this point, Genesis the luxury brand for Hyundai / Kia will reveal their Full Size GV90 ICE/Hybrid/Electric SUV summer of 2024 and I might just be replacing it with a Genesis. Any questions, ask away.   View full article
    • Rivian? Value? That's hilarious.🤣
    • Let me put it this way, The amount of money I saved with the interior having more room inside than my current Escalade and the silent comfort, It is a win to me with not having to deal with any of the ICE maintenance or gas trips. My leasing / buying story should help enlighten you on why leasing an EV is a good thing right now. I am also putting in a Level 2 charger at the house that will be another story on the research, cost, etc. So you can follow up on that story too.
    • I stumbled upon a small meetup this weekend. There's a new custom/restoration shop about two blocks from my home and I was walking to a Casey's to grab a cake donut for my wife (hahaha) and this is right next to the Casey's.  This grey Chevelle was perfect, absolutely perfect. The plate is the name of the shop, Xtreme (restoration, bodywork, modification). I'm sure this is their show piece, and what a piece of work/art it is! I believe the van is theirs as well.  Later that day we ran to Aldi and came across the International Scout. it was far from mint condition, but it was "pretty good" but even cooler to see it just out and about. 
    • That's an exciting purchase, EV is tempting to me, but I still think all these current Gen EV's are too expensive compared to ICE cars.  If they can cut weight and cost 15% then I think the flood gates open on EV sales.
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