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  • Drew Dowdell
    Drew Dowdell

    CES 2021 - The Cadillac Celestiq Concept

      Adding to Cadillac's EV future....

    Over the course of CES 2021, Cadillac dropped a few bombs upon the critics and car enthusiasts with their PAV Pod and eVTOL. However, they also unveiled their “EV Flagship” known as the Celestiq. Following the recent reveal of what would be Cadillac’s first electric vehicle, the Lyriq, in August of 2020, the Celestiq will be a hatchback while the Lyriq is an SUV.

    The Celestiq will be a four-seat hatchback with standard all-wheel drive. However, it will come with up and coming technology in its four-wheel steering, allowing it to make sharper and more precise turns. The vehicle will also come with transparent glass roof panels that each passenger can control to different levels of transparency, as well as a large LED display that stretches across the entire dashboard and personal screens for the rear passengers.

    vlcsnap-2021-01-31-16h29m36s271.png

    The Celestiq will be powered by a 100-kWh battery pack allowing it to have a 300+ mile range but will most likely come with a six-figure price tag. However, Cadillac asserts that it will be bespoke and hand-built in the Detroit area and be completely customized for individual customers. So if you are looking for a 4-seat luxury hatchback EV, start saving up for the 2025 release. 

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    Tesla Model S Plaid+ has 520 mile range.  Which is a major problem for a 2025 model with a 300 mile range or the Taycan and its 225 mile range.  I think you can always have a 350-300 mile range as a base car, but all these EV's need a 400+ mile option too.

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    25 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Tesla Model S Plaid+ has 520 mile range.  Which is a major problem for a 2025 model with a 300 mile range or the Taycan and its 225 mile range.  I think you can always have a 350-300 mile range as a base car, but all these EV's need a 400+ mile option too.

    Eh, I think 300 is enough for most people.

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    19 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    It is, but it looks bad on the stat sheet if the other guy has a 500 mile option.

    The shitty Tesla Model S interior looks worse before you even get to the stat sheet. 

    You'll never get me into a Model S with those interiors even if it had a 1,000 mile range. A Cadillac interior, 300 would be sufficient. 

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    1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    The $h!ty Tesla Model S interior looks worse before you even get to the stat sheet. 

    You'll never get me into a Model S with those interiors even if it had a 1,000 mile range. A Cadillac interior, 300 would be sufficient. 

    Cadillac should be able to beat Tesla on interior.  But Tesla does have horsepower, range and self driving technology advantages over everyone.  So Porsche, Mercedes, Cadillac or anyone else need to change the narrative and beat Tesla at something else.  

    Worldwide Tesla outsells Cadillac, and Cadillac had a 100 year head start on them.  I don’t think Cadillac is going to put the Lyriq and Celestiq on sale and magically catch Tesla.  It will take more than that.

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    57 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Cadillac should be able to beat Tesla on interior.  But Tesla does have horsepower, range and self driving technology advantages over everyone.  So Porsche, Mercedes, Cadillac or anyone else need to change the narrative and beat Tesla at something else.  

    Worldwide Tesla outsells Cadillac, and Cadillac had a 100 year head start on them.  I don’t think Cadillac is going to put the Lyriq and Celestiq on sale and magically catch Tesla.  It will take more than that.

    Tesla self driving is a Joke, proven to many times with lives lost!

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    56 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Cadillac should be able to beat Tesla on interior.  But Tesla does have horsepower, range and self driving technology advantages over everyone.  So Porsche, Mercedes, Cadillac or anyone else need to change the narrative and beat Tesla at something else.  

    Worldwide Tesla outsells Cadillac, and Cadillac had a 100 year head start on them.  I don’t think Cadillac is going to put the Lyriq and Celestiq on sale and magically catch Tesla.  It will take more than that.

    The Cadillac EVs will likely cost more than Teslas at the start. The first EVs are supposed to be flag ships, there’s not going to be a Model 3 or Model Y competitor right away.

    I trust Cadillac SuperCruise more than Tesla AutoPilot. It’s safer.

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    Correct; Cadillac has the better judged 'auto pilot' then Tesla, along with better build quality. The old ATS-V had better handling than the Model 3 Performance does now. And the brand is profitable. Cadillac has numerous legs up on Tesla.

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    34 minutes ago, David said:

    Tesla self driving is a Joke, proven to many times with lives lost!

    Not Tesla's fault for a certain stupid Tesla owner that decides to do everything else BUT drive their vehicle while the vehicle is in motion...

    We dont blame Ferrrari, Porsche, Chevrolet, Dodge , Lamborghini...hell, even Toyota for people going waaaaay over the speed limit with their fast cars and killing themselves and innocent people, now do we?

    But here we are, we blame Tesla for autopilot?

    Yeah..I know what Tesla marketed in the beginning with Autopilot including the name of it...but...let me repeat...we  dont blame sports car makers for their marketing of go fast cars with awesome go fast stickers and monikers on their cars and when the drivers of those vehicles and up in a killing spree...so why here?

    Level 5 autonomous driving is not a thing nor will it ever be.

    Regardless what system is better and reacts faster predicting a possible accident, both systems require a hand on the wheel and the driver alert  defeating the purpose of both Autopilot AND Supercruise. 

    IF BOTH systems are used as an aid to prevent accidents while the driver is actually driving and being alert, then both systems are good enough...

    Anything else other than that, the driver is fooling himself with something both systems are NOT...which is autonomous driving...which both systems are not...

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    The shitty Tesla Model S interior looks worse before you even get to the stat sheet. 

    You'll never get me into a Model S with those interiors even if it had a 1,000 mile range. A Cadillac interior, 300 would be sufficient. 

    Have you seen the new Tesla 'steering wheel'?

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    57 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    The Cadillac EVs will likely cost more than Teslas at the start. The first EVs are supposed to be flag ships, there’s not going to be a Model 3 or Model Y competitor right away.

    I trust Cadillac SuperCruise more than Tesla AutoPilot. It’s safer.

    More expensive than Tesla isn’t really a good strategy unless the car is amazing.  And Mercedes and Porsche will be there too before the Celestiq, and you still have gas powered competition too.  
     

    Autopilot doesn’t need mapped roads like Super Cruise does and I think the 2022 S-class is the only level 3 autonomy car available this year although Elon claims the Model S will be.  
     

    Although I don’t think the differences in self driving systems will sway buyers to one brand or another.  It is about the race to level 5 autonomy so Tesla can sell rides in a robot taxi and have a car generate 5-10 years of revenue rather than a 1 time sale.

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    51 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    Correct; Cadillac has the better judged 'auto pilot' then Tesla, along with better build quality. The old ATS-V had better handling than the Model 3 Performance does now. And the brand is profitable. Cadillac has numerous legs up on Tesla.

    We don’t know that Cadillac is profitable since GM doesn’t split out brand financials but I am sure they are.  
     

    What Musk is banking on is getting to wheeler instead of selling a Model 3 for $50k and making no profit, getting that car to be a robo taxi and have it generate an income stream, and record all the data like how Google tracks web traffic and monetize that data.  Then that Model 3 might generate $100k of revenue and he is now making $50k profit per car and he still owns the car until he takes it out of commission and recycles it into a new car and repeats the process.

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    22 minutes ago, regfootball said:

    Have you seen the new Tesla 'steering wheel'?

    Rumor is it looks like an airplane yoke because they are getting ready for the Roadster which can “fly for a little bit” according to Elon.  And the thought is a pull back could activate the take off.  But otherwise the no stalks thing I think is dumb.

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    14 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

    Not Tesla's fault for a certain stupid Tesla owner that decides to do everything else BUT drive their vehicle while the vehicle is in motion...

    We dont blame Ferrrari, Porsche, Chevrolet, Dodge , Lamborghini...hell, even Toyota for people going waaaaay over the speed limit with their fast cars and killing themselves and innocent people, now do we?

    But here we are, we blame Tesla for autopilot?

    Yeah..I know what Tesla marketed in the beginning with Autopilot including the name of it...but...let me repeat...we  dont blame sports car makers for their marketing of go fast cars with awesome go fast stickers and monikers on their cars and when the drivers of those vehicles and up in a killing spree...so why here?

    Level 5 autonomous driving is not a thing nor will it ever be.

    Regardless what system is better and reacts faster predicting a possible accident, both systems require a hand on the wheel and the driver alert  defeating the purpose of both Autopilot AND Supercruise. 

    IF BOTH systems are used as an aid to prevent accidents while the driver is actually driving and being alert, then both systems are good enough...

    Anything else other than that, the driver is fooling himself with something both systems are NOT...which is autonomous driving...which both systems are not...

    Fair enough Olds! :) 

    Sadly it seems Tesla is using their customers for Alpha, Beta and Release Candidate testing with sad loss of life due to idiots that hear Auto Pilot and think that watching a movie is more important than the only job they really having, getting form Point A to B safely.

    Agree, when a common sense sane person does their job, the so called Auto Pilot can work. Tesla really needs to relabel it and properly clearly state what it can and cannot do.

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    3 hours ago, David said:

    Fair enough Olds! :) 

    Sadly it seems Tesla is using their customers for Alpha, Beta and Release Candidate testing with sad loss of life due to idiots that hear Auto Pilot and think that watching a movie is more important than the only job they really having, getting form Point A to B safely.

    Agree, when a common sense sane person does their job, the so called Auto Pilot can work. Tesla really needs to relabel it and properly clearly state what it can and cannot do.

    They wont relabel it as Autopilot is a FANTASTIC brand name for that kind of feature, although it IS highly misleading. But Tesla does STATE quite CLEARLY that you, the driver,  MUST have at least one hand on the wheel and be alert.   

    Is it Supercruise though that there is a camera and sensor that records the driver's eyes and facial mannerisms to determine driver awareness?    If Tesla's Autopilot feature does not do that, then maybe it should.  But I do know the (Tesla ) car beeps at you if there is a prolonged time lapse when there is no hand on the steering wheel. 

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    On 1/31/2021 at 11:21 PM, smk4565 said:

    More expensive than Tesla isn’t really a good strategy unless the car is amazing.  And Mercedes and Porsche will be there too before the Celestiq, and you still have gas powered competition too.  
     

    Autopilot doesn’t need mapped roads like Super Cruise does and I think the 2022 S-class is the only level 3 autonomy car available this year although Elon claims the Model S will be.  
     

    Although I don’t think the differences in self driving systems will sway buyers to one brand or another.  It is about the race to level 5 autonomy so Tesla can sell rides in a robot taxi and have a car generate 5-10 years of revenue rather than a 1 time sale.

    You might want to actually read about the many problems with Teslas Autopilot before speaking of its alleged “superiority”.

    https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/17/18629214/tesla-autopilot-crash-death-josh-brown-jeremy-banner

    Edited by surreal1272
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    On 1/31/2021 at 8:21 PM, smk4565 said:

    Autopilot doesn’t need mapped roads like Super Cruise does and I think the 2022 S-class is the only level 3 autonomy car available this year although Elon claims the Model S will be.  
     

    Although I don’t think the differences in self driving systems will sway buyers to one brand or another.  It is about the race to level 5 autonomy so Tesla can sell rides in a robot taxi and have a car generate 5-10 years of revenue rather than a 1 time sale.

    ? Unproven tech from Diamler, level 3, Multiple deaths for autopilot from Tesla and Super Cruise from GM that has not had any deaths related to it yet and it is a proven working technology. 

    Super Cruise for the win at this point. We can debate your Model S Level 3 after it has some actual real world road time on it.

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    Quote

     

    After Brown’s death, Tesla said its camera failed to recognize the white truck against a bright sky; the US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) essentially found that Brown was not paying attention to the road and exonerated Tesla. It determined he set his car’s cruise control at 74 mph about two minutes before the crash, and he should have had at least seven seconds to notice the truck before crashing into it.

    Federal investigators have yet to make a determination in Banner’s death. In a preliminary report released May 15th, the National Traffic Safety Board (NTSB) said that Banner engaged Autopilot about 10 seconds before the collision. “From less than 8 seconds before the crash to the time of impact, the vehicle did not detect the driver’s hands on the steering wheel, NTSB said. The vehicle was traveling at 68 mph when it crashed.

     

      

    Although in the 2nd accident, shyte Tesla software failed to detect that the Darwin contestant didnt have his hands on the wheel...  BOTH Darwin postulants engineered their own deaths by NOT driving their phoquing cars...

    I have sympathy for their loved ones they leave behind, but I dont have ANY empathy for both of those guys...  And I CERTAINLY dont blame Tesla for ANY of that. 

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    On 1/31/2021 at 11:21 PM, smk4565 said:

    More expensive than Tesla isn’t really a good strategy unless the car is amazing.  And Mercedes and Porsche will be there too before the Celestiq, and you still have gas powered competition too.  
     

    Autopilot doesn’t need mapped roads like Super Cruise does and I think the 2022 S-class is the only level 3 autonomy car available this year although Elon claims the Model S will be.  
     

    Although I don’t think the differences in self driving systems will sway buyers to one brand or another.  It is about the race to level 5 autonomy so Tesla can sell rides in a robot taxi and have a car generate 5-10 years of revenue rather than a 1 time sale.

    Any current Cadillac interior is better than any Tesla interior. Fit, finish, materials, build quality....take your pic, the Cadillac is better.

    If Cadillac does to their EVs what they did with the upper Escalade, it’s no contest 

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    8 hours ago, David said:

    ? Unproven tech from Diamler, level 3, Multiple deaths for autopilot from Tesla and Super Cruise from GM that has not had any deaths related to it yet and it is a proven working technology. 

    Super Cruise for the win at this point. We can debate your Model S Level 3 after it has some actual real world road time on it.

    Humans kill 35,000 people a year in car crashes in just the USA.  If semi-autonomous or autonomous drive even cut that in half, that is a substantial amount of lives saved.

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    30 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Any current Cadillac interior is better than any Tesla interior. Fit, finish, materials, build quality....take your pic, the Cadillac is better.

    If Cadillac does to their EVs what they did with the upper Escalade, it’s no contest 

    The XT5, XT4 interiors are nothing special, a Tesla Model S is as nice as those.  Overall as a brand, Cadillac has better interiors than Tesla.  But Tesla has more performance, Tesla's XT6 competitor is faster than a Corvette.  

    Technology will play a role too, EV range, and most importantly brand image.   Tesla outsells Cadillac now, I don't see why Tesla won't in 5 years.  

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    41 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    If semi-autonomous or autonomous drive even cut that in half, that is a substantial amount of lives saved.

    How would that remotely happen? Isn’t tesla charging buyers like 5 grand to unlock autopilot? Would take 150 years to get even half the vehicles to be on an ‘autopilot’ on all roads. ‘tis to laugh.

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    50 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    The XT5, XT4 interiors are nothing special, a Tesla Model S is as nice as those.  Overall as a brand, Cadillac has better interiors than Tesla.  But Tesla has more performance, Tesla's XT6 competitor is faster than a Corvette.  

    Technology will play a role too, EV range, and most importantly brand image.   Tesla outsells Cadillac now, I don't see why Tesla won't in 5 years.  

    That’s because Tesla has had the bulk of the EV market to themselves. Let’s revisit those numbers in about three to five years when the competition goes all in on EVs. 
     

    And Tesla interiors are garbage in fit and finish and quality. You are delusional to think otherwise much think it’s better than Cadillac. 

    1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

    Humans kill 35,000 people a year in car crashes in just the USA.  If semi-autonomous or autonomous drive even cut that in half, that is a substantial amount of lives saved.

    There is absolutely no correlation or data to suggest that will actually happen. Hell, in its current form, autopilot has made it worse. Ask the idiots who decided to take naps while their Tesla’s “drove” them home. 

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    14 hours ago, balthazar said:

    How would that remotely happen? Isn’t tesla charging buyers like 5 grand to unlock autopilot? Would take 150 years to get even half the vehicles to be on an ‘autopilot’ on all roads. ‘tis to laugh.

    I imagine by 2030 level 2 autonomy will be mandated the way ABS is now.  So every new car will have it.  The S-class can go to level 4 on a gel-fenced area next year, so by 2032 I bet many cars are capable of that.

    14 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

    That’s because Tesla has had the bulk of the EV market to themselves. Let’s revisit those numbers in about three to five years when the competition goes all in on EVs. 
     

    And Tesla interiors are garbage in fit and finish and quality. You are delusional to think otherwise much think it’s better than Cadillac. 

    There is absolutely no correlation or data to suggest that will actually happen. Hell, in its current form, autopilot has made it worse. Ask the idiots who decided to take naps while their Tesla’s “drove” them home. 


    I said Cadillac has better interiors than Tesla.  But Tesla outsells Cadillac anyway.  

    Not just auto pilot but all self driving systems.  

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    2 hours ago, smk4565 said:


    I said Cadillac has better interiors than Tesla.  But Tesla outsells Cadillac anyway.  

     

    You also said that models like the XT4 and XT5 were no better than the Tesla S hence my rebuttal, skipping the fact that the S cost $30-40K MORE with that uninspiring interior.

     

    "The XT5, XT4 interiors are nothing special, a Tesla Model S is as nice as those."

    Edited by surreal1272
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    18 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    The XT5, XT4 interiors are nothing special, a Tesla Model S is as nice as those.  

    AAAAAAaaabsolutely not.... and I'm no big fan of the XT interiors (though XT6 is nice enough if a bit bland in styling)

    The Model S interior is very creaky, loads of cheap plastic, misaligned panels and seams, minimalism to the point of starkness, and lets not forget the window switches from a Dodge Dart.

    18 hours ago, balthazar said:

    How would that remotely happen? Isn’t tesla charging buyers like 5 grand to unlock autopilot? Would take 150 years to get even half the vehicles to be on an ‘autopilot’ on all roads. ‘tis to laugh.

    $10k on the Model Y I priced out yesterday. 

    1 hour ago, balthazar said:

    There’s no legitimate safety-based case for mandating an autonomous driving feature.

    Have you seen the drivers in NJ?

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    53 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Have you seen the drivers in NJ?

    Your bringing back the year and half I lived out of a hotel in Princeton for a job and your right, the drivers there are scary stuff! :P 

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    Wife's co-worker moved here recently from somewhere a number of states away, and her comment RE Jersey drivers was priceless; "lawless animals". It's fine here, just keep your slow-ass in the right lane. ;)

    Most accidents aren't on limited major highways where AD currently is enablable, they're on all other roads. I declined to pay $900 for the 'safety package' option on my ordered truck, and I'd never pay $2-10 grand to momentarily take my hands off the wheel so... I can rest them in my lap yet still have to be alert/looking thru the windshield. Amazing that some folk think this is a viable choice.

    IMO, that's like paying 10 grand to hit an optional button while you're driving, every 10 seconds, that silences the buzzer that's letting you know you're driving.

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    2 hours ago, balthazar said:

    Wife's co-worker moved here recently from somewhere a number of states away, and her comment RE Jersey drivers was priceless; "lawless animals". It's fine here, just keep your slow-ass in the right lane. ;)

    I'm a much calmer driver here in Pittsburgh. They're overly polite in this city to the point of being annoying.  When I'm back in NJ or NY, I turn into Mr. Hyde. 

    2 hours ago, balthazar said:

    Most accidents aren't on limited major highways where AD currently is enablable, they're on all other roads. I declined to pay $900 for the 'safety package' option on my ordered truck, and I'd never pay $2-10 grand to momentarily take my hands off the wheel so... I can rest them in my lap yet still have to be alert/looking thru the windshield. Amazing that some folk think this is a viable choice.

    But the more severe accidents are on the high speed highways. My experience driving a SuperCruise Cadillac to NJ was that it was much less tiring than doing the driving myself.  In day to day commuting I'd want to drive myself, but after about 30 minutes on the PA Turnpike that I've driven hundreds of times, I'm fine letting the car do most of the driving. 

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    15 minutes ago, ykX said:

    NJ is nothing compared to NYC drivers

    And from my travel I have to say that MA drivers are not better than NJ.

    Totally agree, there seems to be two mind sets, those that see auto's as an appliance to be used and those that care about their auto and not wanting to mess it up. NJ, NY, MA, etc. I saw way too many new auto's messed up as the owners / drivers just did not care. I also saw those that did care. Clearly a mixed pot, but you have aggressive reckless drivers and then what I call the aggressive defensive driver. I put myself in the second camp of aggressive but defensive driver.

    I want to get from point A to B and back but without damaging my auto.

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    1 hour ago, David said:

    those that see auto's as an appliance to be used and those that care about their auto and not wanting to mess it up

    I don't think being aggressive driver and caring about your car are same things.  Also, living in big cities with very limited parking and a lot of congestion will put scuffs and dings on your car no matter how careful you are.  I haven't seen one big city where cars didn't look like they just came out of demolition derby.

    Edited by ykX
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    On 2/10/2021 at 5:15 PM, balthazar said:

    IMO, that's like paying 10 grand to hit an optional button while you're driving, every 10 seconds, that silences the buzzer that's letting you know you're driving.

    I share your sentiment regarding "autonomous" driving. Including Supercruising. 

    I have never thought it it that way but ABSOLUTELY YES!  

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Washington state is a regulated power supply state so that depending on the county you live in; you deal with your county or the state power supplier. Washington state has one of the greenest electrical grides in the country. It produces 7,816 MWh of electricity and it breaks down as follows: Figures as of May 16th, 2024 Petroleum-Fired - 0% Natural Gas - 21.3% Coal-Fired - 3.9% Nuclear 10.3% Renewables - 64.1% (Hydro, Wind, Solar & Ocean) Fueling Stations in Washington State: Motor Gasoline - 1,846 Stations Propane - 64 Stations EV Charging - 2,153 stations E85 - 5 stations Biodiesel, CNG, & Other Alternatives - 8 stations If you wish to check out your own state information you can do so here by clicking on your state:  U.S. Energy Information Administration - EIA - Independent Statistics and Analysis Starting off on my project I had decided to go ahead with a ChargePoint+ Home Flex Hardwired solution. Yes, there are a wide variety of good home chargers that run from $250 to $2000 dollars such as the Porsche home charger. Home Flex Hardwired Level 2 EV Charger (chargepoint.com) The choice of this charger was based on the following: Some of the best reviews out there by thousands of people Hardwired allowed me the best power supply available to the EV building in future protection as newer EV tech comes online. ChargePoint sells both CCS and NACS supply cords, making upgrades from my current EV with CCS to a future EV with NACS easy as a self-Upgrade to the charger. ChargePoint app allows for use both at their fast-charging network and to track my own use and cost. You can find a large diverse choice of L1 and L2 chargers on Amazon or from other sources. Many utilities will have rebates if you purchase through your local utility or in the case of my own system, I had to file a rebate form as my charger was on the approved list, but not available from my utility. ChargePoint+ also points out that till 2032 you might be able to qualify for a $1,000 rebate from the federal government. Electric Vehicle (EV) Charging Incentives | ChargePoint Now that I have covered some of the basics about electrical and power source, lets dive into my journey for a Level 2 Home Charger. Karl at the Snohomish PUD sent me a form that I had to fill out, this was a "New Service Residential Request" form. Here I had to fill out the normal details such as my house address, current status of the electrical to the home, type of new service being requested, pictures of where the service would need to be connected to the house and where I wanted the service panel to be, etc. This form had an area for requested measurements from the house to the utility pole, gross measurements of where the wiring would need to go so that the service could be sized up accordingly. The last part was the direction from my PUD on checking with the city for any additional requirements. For those wanting to see what the new service request form looks like I supply it here: 1097R_NSQres.pdf City requirements were that any electrical changes to the existing structure that comprised more than 10% cost of the home improvement value as assessed by the county required that the electrical lines from the utility pole to the house be installed underground rather than overhead. Luckily for me, my estimated costs would be under this so I was not looking to have to figure this into the cost of adding the service or so I thought. Karl at SNOPUD said he would do the assessment and have out to me the updated info shortly. In the meantime, I reached out to a couple of recommended electrical companies from the SNOPUD website and a few independent electricians to get estimates on the work to be done. Specifically, I wanted two quotes, first is the all-new service added to the house with dedicated panel feeding the garage. Second was updating the existing panel to support a charger in the garage using my existing service. Here I was expecting a $5 to $6 thousand dollar install connection for the first service and based on the auto industry estimate of around $1,500 to $2,000 for the second. Boy was I off by a bunch. All the estimates from both the electrical companies I contacted, and the independent contractors had the new service install between $10 to $12 thousand dollars and the existing services was between $4,700 to $6,200. This also did not include the connection to the PUD. Here I was informed from Karl at SNOPUD that the service could be done but would require a new transformer to our cul-d-sac to support the added amperage pull. As such, this was more than just a wire connection but an outage to the cul-d-sac ending in an almost $15,000 charge. Who knew that adding a service where you pay them for the flow of electricity would have such a huge cost and impact on my project. This put the cost of a new service between $25,000 to $27,000 dollars. So much for the Auto Industry estimates of $1,500 to $2,000 dollars and it also did not include the required $125.00 electrical permit I would have to get from the city and inspection. I did keep in mind that the price of electrical work varies based on the cost of labor where one lives, power of the charger, distance from the charger to the electrical panel along with the job complexity. What about DIY (Do it Yourself), could I do this job myself and what would the cost be? First, I knew from all the quotes that I was greatly under my 200-amp service pull as I have Gas stove, Dryer, Water heater and Furnace. As such, the 240V 30-to-50-amp circuits that are in my panel are not being used at all. One of the independent electricians had stated that the cheapest way would be to pull an existing circuit breaker and run the wire into the panel with the new Circuit breaker, but most electricians did not like leaving existing wires from outlets in the panel even if they were sealed off, they just did not like doing this, so everyone had quoted based on adding a secondary panel. With this information, I researched from the ChargePoint+ website on installing the hardwired charger I had purchased from them. ChargePoint+ has installation videos and covers all the information on installation as well as becoming a certified installation expert. ChargePoint Home Resources | ChargePoint ChargePoint Home Flex (CPH50) Hardwired Installation Video | ChargePoint Become a Certified ChargePoint Installer | ChargePoint From the website above I gathered the following information on the materials that I would need. Conduit large enough to hold the wiring Brackets to attach the conduit and screws 90-degree wire access conduit Associated pipe nipple for connection into the panel Insulated bushing Appropriate washer and locknut for connection to the panel 6 AWG wiring Black, Red and Green wires per code ChargePoint+ clearly states to use 6AWG for their Level 2 Charger installation. 6 AWG wire stripper 70amp circuit breaker Some states require these to be Arc or GFCI for indoor or outdoor, national code for outdoor installation is a GFCI breaker upstream from the outdoor installation. Check local regulations for proper type required. Make sure to get the proper type of circuit breaker for your panel, I had D block circuits. Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters vs. Arc Fault Circuit Interrupters - Bob Vila Torque Screwdriver set Most do not know that depending on the size of the circuit breaker, when you connect the wiring to the breaker, the screws must be torqued to a certain range. The 70amp circuits per the side of the breaker states 45 in. lbs. Paintable caulking to seal both access points into the house for the charger. With having my list of materials, I choose to first compare prices online from Home Depot and Lowe's. What I found was that Home Depot was much higher in the cost of the wiring, but cheaper in conduit, circuit breakers and accessories. Lucky, I have both home improvement stores within a 2-mile radius of my house. What I also noticed was that neither home improvement store had the required tools I would need, so clearly, I would have to stop off at my local Harbor Freight tool store. Harbor Freight Tools | Quality Tools, Lowest Prices With the knowledge of what I needed and a shopping list, I headed out and accomplished the following: Electrical Permit from my city.  Wiring from Lowe's - Lowe’s Home Improvement (lowes.com) Conduit, circuit breaker and accessories from Home Depot - The Home Depot Tools from Harbor Freight tools company - Harbor Freight Tools | Quality Tools, Lowest Prices Opening up the electrical panel as you can see here, I have my household 200amp circuit at the top. This will kill power to everything in the house, below this was the kitchen and laundry room 240V circuit and then on down throughout the rest of the house to the garage with various circuits. At this point, I knew that I would be turning off the 200amp circuit to work on this panel and protect the rest of the house. Note to point out is that when you turn off this 200amp circuit, the power is not flowing to the rest of the panel, but you still have the power coming from the street to this panel and so there is live electricity in that 200amp circuit. One must always be cautious when working with electrical. One safety thing to do, remove ALL jewelry, watches, phones, etc. Have nothing on you that is electrical or any kind of metal and that includes a wedding ring. All these are places that can cause an electrical jump / short that can cause you harm. As one that grew up working on auto's and having great respect for the electrical system of auto's, homes, datacenters, etc. there are some things that I do not have a problem doing. In this case I kept the power to the house on while I pulled the panel cover off. A proper panel should have all the wires in 90 degrees to the circuit breakers and to the grounding / neutral bars that are silver in this case. Here I have not had any manipulation of the box done with patchwork electrical hacks. It is always best to learn the details or hire the proper person to do your electrical work. Being that I am comfortable with pulling out the circuit breaker that is turned off, I choose to pull and replace the 240V 30-amp laundry room circuit. Here in this picture, you can see it removed and a better view of the grounding / neutral bar of the electrical panel. At this point, I wanted to pull out the punch of where I was going to run the new electrical lines into the panel. Once I pulled out the punch, I drilled a small starter hole from the inside to the outside so I could line up properly the larger drill bit for the incoming conduit. Upon drilling, I attached the pipe nipple extension to the 90-degree wire access conduit, and I inserted it through the outside wall. Here I put on the washer, lock nut and insulated bushing as you can see here. Now the next step was to install the conduit, some love their hard conduit and gluing it together as it comes in 10ft lengths, and you then have to either use a special heater tool to bend the hard conduit or buy the proper pieces that are curved. I choose to go with liquid proof flexible commercial conduit. The benefit here is that while this is a bit more expensive, the flexibility of the line makes it so much easier to install. One thing no matter what type of conduit you choose to use is that one has to run the electrical lines through the conduit. Hard conduit can be with tight bends very challenging to run the electrical lines unless you have a special tool that allows you to snake through the conduit, attach the electrical lines and then it uses an electrical motor to pull it. I choose to run my flexible conduit out in a straight line, and I had pushed through my three 6awg lines through it so that I had the wire already in the conduit. Now this does make the conduit much heavier to install, but I found it faster and easier to do it this way. You will also notice that I have a Black, White and Green wire rather than the code dictating a Black, Red and Green wire. Both Lowe's and Home Depot were out at the time of purchase the red 6awg wire. So, I did what is allowed and that is on the ends of the wire at both ends, I wrapped them with red electrical tape. I started with connecting the liquid tight end connector to the flexible conduit and attaching it to the 90 degree wire access to the panel. I pushed the wires through to the inside and reattached the liquid tight cover and then started using the brackets to attach the conduit to the house. Two things to consider, one is the over all look of the installation, sometimes the cheapest approach is not the best especially when it comes to ones significant other, wife, partner, etc., not everyone likes to see conduit. I choose to do my best to minimize the visibility of the conduit and once I paint it to match the house it will truly not show up as the wife never noticed it when she came home till after I showed here. Upon installation of the conduit with the 6 AWG wires, it was time to mount the home charger in my designated place. Here you need to make sure it is level, supported by the wall which can sometimes require additional bracing. Here you see my ChargePoint+ unit being installed on the wall. With the charger installed onto the wall, I finished up the connection of the conduit / wires into the unit. Connected the electrical supply side and the charging cable side and reinstalled the cover. With the installation of the charger unit and wiring done, it was time to focus on the circuit breaker installation side. Here I had an LED head light as I finally turned off the 200-amp circuit breaker to the house. I attached the red and black wires to the circuit breaker, installed the ground wire and then installed the circuit breaker into the panel. I also at this time wrapped each wire from the laundry outlet in proper electrical tap and a wire twist to add additional protection and secured them out of the way in the panel corner. I also at this time used my torque screwdriver to ensure proper torque on the wires. With the installation completed at the panel side, I turned back on the 200-amp circuit enabling the house to have power and was time to go enable the charger unit. Here ChargePoint+ has an outstanding cellphone app to enable you to finish up the setup of the charger. I was able to connect to the unit via WiFi and set the unit to 70 amp circuit hardwired. I also then connected it to my house WiFi for internet access. This allowed me to do a update on the unit for software. Here ChargePoint has on the left side of the unit indicators for WiFi connection. Green is good and as you can see in the picture above, I have WiFi connection and the alert is showing green so no issues with the charger. Upon using the regular ChargePoint software app on my smartphone I was able to complete setting up an account and final configuration of my charger as a home charger unit. The unit is green when not in use but ready to be used. During Charging the unit is a pulsing blue. At this point, I had a functional Level 2 240V 50amp hardwired home EV charger with CCS connector. What did this cost me, simple a total of $1,032.23 Level 2 ChargePoint+ Home Flex hardwired charger: $549.99 plus $54.99 sales tax before $200.00 rebate. Total Cost of Materials: $391.77 which was from Home Depot & Lowe's. Tools bought for the job: $110.48 which comprised of a 6 AWG wire striper and a Torque Screwdriver set from Harbor Freight. Electrical Permit: $125 from the city. Best part of this is the cheap charging we get at home at .10 cents per kW. The ChargePoint app allows me to track and monitor in real time our costs and amount used, so it will make it easy to subtract it from the electrical bill to see the house use versus the EV. The app shows that I am constantly at the 11kW controller capabilities of home charging from Kia. This brings me back to why I titled this the Good, Bad and the Ugly. New Service request is the ugly as the costs of the new service from my power supplier has costs that have never been talked about before to me and I still have to pay for the electrical use which makes this the ugly when you are looking at a five figure cost. The bad is clearly adding the new service panel and the associated costs to an electrical company to do the work, pretty much double what the auto industry has stated having a Level 2 home charger installed would actually cost. Good is for those of you who are willing to learn and do the work, a DIY install is in my humble opinion a very cheap way to go even though it did take a chunk of my time, I have no regrets about learning the process to install and dealing with my city on installation. End result is a quality home charger that will serve me well for many years. Please post any questions or comments, happy to respond on this personal journey into home charging of my EV. View full article
    • Tongue and Groove is best! For the Computer Nerds here:
    • One thing leads to another ... having one Alphaville song in my music collection leads to being clue in to another.  These German guys - meaning Alphaville - are good. "Big in Japan" This is quintessentially '80s all the way around, which is just fine!
    • Man cave type jokes since that would describe most of the active members ... here's an oldie but goodie: Did you hear about the two lesbians who built a house? They used no studs ... it was all tongue and groove.
    • This road test of the Citroen C5 was the result of a serious upgrade in a rental at a Sicilian airport.   I’ve been assigned a smaller Citroen C3 at this very airport before – when the AirBump feature was novel and unusual - and remarked on its excellent ride and easy handling. The C5 is quite a few steps up.  Mostly, it’s all good.  This is a heavier vehicle and, along with that, the ride is like that of a bank fault.  It’s smooth, quiet, and isolated.  In some ways, it is perhaps too isolated.  By this, I mean that road feel is a little compromised owing to its very soft ride, and there is too much assist in the steering.  I noticed this upon taking out of the rental agency’s lot and through its narrow alleyways. It reminded me of an American boulevardier more so than the European SUV that it is.  It firms up some on the open road.  It’s at slow speeds that it feels way more "electric" – the way electric felt when there was the palpable adjustment we all had to make from hydraulic steering. This C5 had a diesel engine, but it was almost hard to tell that.  It is a turbo charged 4-cylinder engine.  The mileage was excellent.  It returned about 43 mpg in a combination of driving – mostly highway driving but with some small town and arduous mountain two lane road driving.  The transmission is a geared automatic unit and has 8 gears.  The shifts are extremely soft, which I feel is mostly a good thing, and suited to the C5.  The only time it’s clear that it’s geared is when pushing down the pedal – just because - or to pass. The C5 is powerful enough and certainly has the torque to sustain grades and demanding conditions.  However, passing seems to be a variable situation.  It almost seems to depend on the speed and the grade.  In most situations, it does so fairly easily.  High speed passes require some strategizing, and, in a few rare cases, it seemed better to avoid them.  In maintaining high speeds on the autostrada, it does so effortlessly and stably.  You might not have an idea how fast you’re going (114 km = 70 mph, and, on a few occasions, there were some 120 kms and 130 kms where the “bank vault” feeling didn’t let on that this was the actual speed). The workmanship is quite good.  The seats had centralized cloth surfaces with bolsters and side construction of either leather or leatherette.  There is stitching that is attractive and taut.  The C5 is ideal and comfortable for long hauls.  Front seat comfort and leg room is more than adequate, and rear seat leg room is acceptable.  Rear storage space is capacious, and this is without folding forward the rear seats.  The small lift-up area for the tire well provides for some additional storage and symmetrical small cubbies on the sides of the rear storage area can come in handy. Except for the diagonal edge on the infotainment center screen (a pet peeve), I really liked the volumes of the dashboard. Everything was nicely crafted.  Linear gauges for fuel and temperature seem to be the thing these days and, although nice, it would be easier if they indicated critical zones in orange and/or red.  The audio quality appeared to be good.  Also, setting up Bluetooth and keeping Android Auto going seemed easy. The console, which opens lengthwise in the middle, is both unusual and large.  The air conditioning works quickly.  In concert with liking the volumes of the dashboard, the number and placement of vents worked well to distribute the cool air.  Ahead of the console are two ergonomically placed cupholders and all the switches for key operating functions ahead of them reflect quality workmanship and are easy to operate. These would include the pushbutton engine start button, the transmission lever, the drive mode selector, and the parking brake.  That said, I found operating some of these features on a rented (and reviewed) BMW Series II Gran Coupe less intuitive.  In general, I liked everything about day in-day out living in this C5 more than in the fussier BMW Gran Coupe.  However, with its lower framework and Germanic underpinnings, the BMW really shone for its roadability and the sense of control it offered. The C5’s silhouette is not that captivating.  However, they work around the “chunkiness” and this can be seen from the interior.  I was surprised at how good rear visibility is.  The seating position is high and commanding relative to the road.  In tight spaces, the tabletop look of the hood ahead of the windshield doesn’t have clearly defined ridges and is harder to work with.  It appears wide for the genre.  Thankfully, the parking assist feature and other traffic sensors were fairly sensitive. I asked a friend who likes cars and rents them often in Europe what he thought of the major French brands.  He ranked them as follows: Citroen, Peugeot, and then Renault.  This vehicle speaks well to the Citroen brand and also aligned with what I’ve experienced among these brands. For a person with a little extra money and who needs the space, a supple ride, and its “thickness” all the way around, the Citroen C5 is a good choice.  On a few occasions, its vagueness annoyed me, but that wasn’t too often.  It was challenging to operate on a few narrower Sicilian streets and alleys, but that would apply to narrow streets and parking lots anywhere.  For some, this C5 could check most, if not all, of the boxes. - - - - - PHOTOS FORTHCOMING
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