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    William Maley

    New York 2018: 2019 Cadillac CT6 V-Sport Packs 550 Horsepower V8

      Exclusive V8 engine to Cadillac


    Cadillac is updating the CT6 for 2019 with revised styling including a grille inspired by the Escala concept, new headlights, and reshaped trunk lid. The interior boasts an updated infotainment system with a 10-inch 1080P touchscreen and rotary dial controller with physical shortcut buttons to most used functions. But the big news is under the hood.

    Cadillac is introducing an all-new twin-turbo 4.2L V8 engine with double overhead cams. Making its debut in the all new CT6 V-Sport, the V8 produces 550 horsepower and 627 pound-feet of torque. Cadillac says this engine is a clean-sheet design, as evidence by the “hot-V” configuration -  the turbochargers sit in between the cylinder banks to reduce turbo-lag and making the engine more compact. The V8 sends its power through a new 10-speed automatic to all four wheels. The engine will be hand-built at GM's Bowling Green, Kentucky's Performance Build Center.

    In 2019, a lower output version of the twin-turbo V8 will become an option on the CT6, producing 500 horsepower. The only differences between the high and low-output versions are a different ECU tune and more restrictive exhaust.

    Other performance goodies for the CT6 V-Sport include revised settings for the steering and Magnetic Ride Control system; limited slip differential, larger brakes, active exhaust system, summer-only performance tires, and a Track Mode setting. Exterior changes include a blacked-out grille, 20-inch wheels, "high-lumen" headlights, and integrated spoiler.

    The introduction of the CT6 V-Sport also marks a change in how Cadillac organizes their trim lineup. It will become forked with Luxury trim on one side and V-Sport on the other side.

    No word on when the 2019 Cadillac CT6 will arrive at dealers.

    Source: Cadillac
    Press Release is on Page 2


    Cadillac Introduces First-Ever CT6 V-Sport

    • New high-performance V-Performance model
    • V-Sport model boasts all-new Cadillac 4.2L Twin Turbo V-8
    • First in a series of new Cadillac performance vehicles

    Cadillac today unveiled the CT6 V-Sport, the first-ever V-Performance model of its top-of-range sedan. The introduction of the high-performance variant coincides with a makeover of the entire CT6 lineup that incorporates the newest iteration of Cadillac’s design language featured on the Escala Concept. The Cadillac V-Sport portfolio currently includes the CTS V-Sport and the XTS V-Sport.

    “Cadillac V-Sport is the embodiment of our passion to deliver an exhilarating driving experience without compromises,” said Cadillac President Johan de Nysschen. “The all-new CT6 V-Sport provides the perfect balance of performance and luxurious refinement.”

    The CT6 V-Sport boasts an all-new Cadillac 4.2L Twin Turbo V-8 Cadillac -estimated at 550 horsepower (410 kW) and stunning 627 lb-ft of torque (850 Nm) that elevates the CT6’s performance to a new plateau and offers drivers an unparalleled experience behind the wheel. The engine is a clean-sheet design and introduces unique design elements developed to balance performance and efficiency with compact, mass-efficient packaging.

    At the center of the Cadillac Twin Turbo V8 is a “hot V” configuration that transposes the conventional layout of the cylinder heads’ intake and exhaust systems to mount the turbochargers at the top of the engine — in the valley between the heads — to virtually eliminate turbo lag and reduce the engine’s overall packaging size.

    “With the introduction of the all-new CT6 V-Sport, Cadillac begins a new chapter in its performance legacy with the introduction of the brand’s first-ever twin-turbo V-8 engine,” added de Nysschen. “It is the centerpiece of the new CT6 V-Sport, an engaging sport sedan infused with DNA of Cadillac’s world-renowned and championship-winning motorsports program.”

    The new Cadillac Twin Turbo V-8 is matched with a 10-speed automatic transmission. Its broad, 7.39 overall gear ratio spread enhances off-the-line performance and contributes to reduced engine speed on the highway for refinement and efficiency. Narrow steps between the gear ratios also help the engine maintain the optimal speed for maximum power at almost all vehicle speeds.

    OPTIMIZED FOR PERFORMANCE

    The first-ever Cadillac CT6 V-Sport includes a bold, dark front with a large V-inspired mesh grille and new horizontal LED headlamps with strong vertical signatures, making it distinctly Cadillac. Lower aero components and Gloss Black side window surround trim provide the performance sport sedan’s chiseled exterior with a dark and distinguished look. New, unique 20-inch V-Sport wheels with summer-only tires[1], lower aero components and spoiler further express the sedan’s performance capabilities.

    • New, summer-only performance tires developed exclusively for Cadillac V-Sport are tuned to deliver crisp response and track capable performance while retaining isolation and comfort.
    • Mechanical limited-slip rear differential increases traction at the limit and provides more predictable performance during spirited and track driving.
    • V-Sport specific suspension tuning for improved roll control, cornering capability and steering response.
    • A new 19-inch Brembo brake system developed specifically for the CT6 high-performance application.
      • Brembo monoblock, fixed-opposed, four-piston
      • Equipped with performance linings and air deflectors that direct air to cool the brakes during sporty, aggressive driving
    • Modified steering and Magnetic Ride Control damper calibrations
    • Exhaust system with active valves offering reduced back pressure and more sound character
      • Tuned for V-Sport model, with a performance oriented exhaust note

    TRACK MODE, OPTIMIZED FOR PERFORMANCE

    • Maximized Magnetic Ride Control damper control
    • Re-mapped steering efforts for sportier, dynamic feedback
    • Track-tuned Active Rear Steer
    • Revised AWD torque split
    • Unique, track-focused stability controls
    • Track focused active exhaust valve calibration

     “The CT6 V-Sport was developed for driving enthusiasts who want the best of both worlds: a high-performance sports sedan and a luxury car with all the comforts and technology that come with it,” said Lyndon Lie, CT6 chief engineer. “With its lightweight architecture, an all-new Cadillac Twin Turbo V-8 coupled with the tightened suspension and revised AWD torque split, we’ve enhanced the CT6 to be well-balanced and capable of all conditions.”

    REFRESHED CT6 LINEUP

    CT6 retains a dominant vertical light signature and adds horizontal elements to give the front end a more aggressive appearance. That inspiration continues to the back with the new rear lighting graphic, which is most visible at night.

    "The V-Sport gave us the opportunity to accentuate the aggressive dynamics of the architecture," said Andrew Smith, executive director of Cadillac Design. "The CT6 is the first entry that incorporates cues for the new Sport and V-Sport model strategy, which allowed us to make the car look as powerful as it drives."

    In addition to the introduction of the CT6 V-Sport, the 2019 CT6 lineup incorporates Cadillac’s new “Y” trim strategy for its models — each model will have Luxury and Sport trims with distinct personas and features. On non-V-Sport CT6 models, new horizontal high-lumen headlights and a revised taillight design refresh Cadillac’s signature lighting, inspired by the Escala Concept.

    INTUITIVE TECHNOLOGIES 

    Led by the latest Cadillac user experience — the brand’s most advanced infotainment interface — the CT6 offers a connected environment.

    The Cadillac user experience is a dynamic platform that offers a smartphone-like experience with an intuitive interface, faster response and improved voice recognition from previous generations. The system can be updated over time to meet a customer’s evolving connectivity needs. It leverages the cloud and available embedded 4G LTE connection to enable personalization, available connected navigation and news, marketplace and entertainment applications via the app store and a new rotary controller that offers users alternative ways to interact with the system.

    The new controller includes volume and seek forward/back controls for the audio system; shortcut buttons for fast access to the most frequently used apps such as Audio, Phone, Navigation (if available) and Home; and a large center dial to operate primary features of the most frequently used apps, scroll menus and lists and select other apps to be displayed.

    Additional CT6 technologies include:

    • Super Cruise, the first truly hands-free driver assistance feature for the freeway, is available (non- V-Sport only)[ii].
    • The 10-inch diagonal Cadillac user experience interface screen has 1080p HD resolution.
    • Next-generation, 5-watt wireless charging with larger charge area for better phone compatibility[iii].
    • Available Cloud-connected navigation provides real-time traffic and routing.
    • Rear-seat Infotainment has media input through USB, HDMI or Wi-Fi connection to a phone.
    • The second-generation Rear Camera Mirror has a new frameless design and zoom and tilt features.
    • The full suite of available active safety features includes Forward Collision Alert, Lane Change Alert with Side Blind Zone Alert, Lane Keep Assist with Lane Departure Warning, Rear Cross Traffic Alert, Forward/Reverse Automatic Braking, and Safety Alert Seat
    • Available Surround Vision provides a 360-degree camera view around the vehicle, displayed on the Cadillac user experience screen, helping the driver avoid nearby objects during low-speed maneuvering
    • Available industry-first Surround Vision Recorder video recording system can record front and rear views while driving, and 360 degrees of recording if the vehicle’s security system is activated.
    • Night Vision helps identify people and large animals via heat signatures on a display in the driver information center.
    • Available Automatic Parking Assist with Braking steers the vehicle and applies the brakes at idle speed to help park in parallel or perpendicular spaces while the driver follows text commands, selects gear, and overrides braking and acceleration as needed.
    • Available Front Pedestrian Braking provides pedestrian detection indications, alerts and automatic braking to help avoid collisions or reduce the harm caused by one.
    • New available Rear Pedestrian Detection alerts the driver, when in Reverse, of an imminent collision with a pedestrian by providing visual notification on rear view camera display.

    Safety or driver assistance features are no substitute for the driver's responsibility to operate the vehicle in a safe manner.  The driver should remain attentive to traffic, surroundings and road conditions at all times.  Visibility, weather, and road conditions may affect feature performance. Read the vehicle's owner's manual for more important feature limitations and information.

    Cadillac Introduces First-Ever Twin-Turbo V-8 Engine

    • Sophisticated, all-new 4.2L Twin Turbo V-8 is at the heart of new CT6 V-Sport’s exemplary performance

    Cadillac begins a new chapter in its high-performance legacy with today’s introduction of the brand’s first-ever twin-turbo V-8 engine. It is the centerpiece of the new CT6 V-Sport, an engaging sports sedan infused with DNA of Cadillac’s world-renowned motorsports program.

    Developed as a small-displacement V-8 in the classic vein and offering exceptional power density of 131 hp (98 kW) per liter, this new Cadillac-exclusive 4.2L Twin Turbo V-8 — GM estimated at 550 horsepower (410 kW) and 627 lb-ft of torque (850 Nm) — elevates the CT6’s performance to a new plateau and offers drivers an unparalleled experience behind the wheel.  An optional 500-horsepower version will also be available.

    “Cadillac’s performance technology reaches new heights with the new and exclusive 4.2L Twin Turbo V-8,” said Cadillac President Johan de Nysschen. “The engineering prowess embodies the very spirt of Cadillac performance on and off the racetrack.”

    The new Cadillac Twin Turbo V-8 is a clean-sheet design that also introduces unique design elements developed to balance performance and efficiency with compact, mass-efficient packaging.

    “Designing an all-new engine was the best way to achieve the performance goals for the CT6 V-Sport,” said Jordan Lee, 4.2L TT V-8 chief engineer. “It builds on Cadillac’s well-established turbocharging know-how and forges new ground with innovative features that deliver exceptional performance and refinement.”

    At the center of the 4.2L Twin Turbo V-8 is a “hot V” configuration that transposes the conventional layout of the cylinder heads’ intake and exhaust systems to mount the turbochargers at the top of the engine — in the valley between the heads — to virtually eliminate turbo lag and reduce the engine’s overall packaging size.

    In a conventional turbocharged engine, the cylinder heads receive the pressurized air charge through ports at the top of the engine and the exhaust exits through ports on the lower outside of the heads into manifolds connected to the turbochargers.

    With Cadillac’s innovative hot V design, the intake-charged air enters through the lower outside of the heads and exits through the top inside — where the turbochargers are integrated with the exhaust manifolds — for quick spool-up that translates into more immediate power delivery. The design also allows closer mounting of the catalytic converters, for efficient packaging.

    Additional engine highlights:

    • Twin-scroll turbochargers
    • Electronic wastegate control
    • Twin water-to-air charge coolers
    • Twin throttle bodies
    • Direct injection
    • Dual-independent camshaft phasing
    • Active Fuel Management (cylinder deactivation)
    • Variable-pressure oiling system
    • Stop/start technology

    Each engine will be hand-built at the Performance Build Center in Bowling Green, Kentucky.

    SMALL DISPLACEMENT, LARGE EFFECT

    The new Cadillac Twin Turbo V-8’s foundation is an all-new, durable and lightweight aluminum cylinder block that houses an equally robust, lightweight rotating assembly composed of a forged steel crankshaft, forged steel connecting rods and high-strength aluminum pistons.

    The crankshaft’s 90.2mm (3.55 inch) stroke complements the cylinder bores’ 86mm (3.39 inch) diameter to give the engine its 4.2L (255 cubic-inch) displacement.

    Its comparatively small bore dimension enables the reduction in the size and weight of the pistons, optimizing the engine’s geometry to match the fast-rev capability permitted by the engine’s low-inertia, twin-scroll turbochargers. The result is exceptional responsiveness and immediacy of power across the rpm band.  

    The turbochargers produce up to 20 pounds of boost (1.38 bar) and are matched with electronic wastegate control for more precise boost management and more responsive torque production. In fact, 90 percent of the engine’s peak torque is available at only 2000 rpm, and it is carried through 5200 rpm for a confident, virtually bottomless power reserve.

    TWIN-SCROLL TURBOCHARGERS

    The turbos’ twin-scroll design broadens their performance capability, offering quicker response and greater efficiency. Rather than a single spiral chamber (scroll) feeding exhaust gas from the exhaust manifold to drive the turbine on each turbocharger, the twin-scroll design has a divided housing with two exhaust gas inlets and two nozzles to drive the turbine. Generally, one of the nozzles contributes to quicker response and boost production, while the other contributes to overall peak performance.

    Each of the engine’s integrated exhaust manifolds/turbocharger housings splits the exhaust channels from the cylinder head so the exhaust flows through separate scrolls based on the engine’s exhaust pulses. When matched with precise valve timing, that separation leverages exhaust-scavenging techniques to optimize gas flow, improves turbine efficiency and reduces turbo lag.

    The electronically controlled wastegates — one per turbocharger — are used for more precise management of the engine’s boost pressure and subsequent torque response for smoother, more consistent performance. They are independently controlled on each cylinder bank to balance the turbo compressors’ output, for greater boost pressure response.

    WATER-TO-AIR CHARGE COOLING AND DUAL THROTTLE BODIES

    An efficient water-to-air charge-cooling system contributes to the engine’s performance, enhancing the turbochargers’ effectiveness. Similar in concept to an engine’s radiator, the system’s intercoolers cool the boosted air charge before it enters the cylinders. Cooler air is denser, which means there is more oxygen in a given volume, resulting in optimal combustion and more power.

    The system features a pair of heat exchangers located above the valley-mounted exhaust manifold/turbocharger housings. The turbos pump pressurized air directly through the heat exchangers and into the cylinder heads. The heat exchangers are cooled by their own coolant circuit.

    The intercoolers lower the air charge temperature by more than 130 degrees F (74 C), packing the combustion chambers with cooler, denser air. Also, the system achieves more than 80 percent cooling efficiency with only about 1 psi (7 kPa) flow restriction at peak power, which contributes to fast torque production.

    Before entering the combustion chambers, the cooled air charge flows through a pair of throttle bodies, one for each engine bank. Each electronically controlled throttle body has a 59mm diameter opening.

    NEW 10-SPEED TRANSMISSION

    The new Cadillac Twin Turbo V-8 is matched with a 10-speed automatic transmission. Its wide, 7.39 overall gear ratio spread enhances off-the-line performance and contributes to reduced engine speed on the highway, which enhances refinement and efficiency. Smaller steps between the gears also help the engine maintain the optimal speed for maximum power at almost all vehicle speeds.

    ADDITIONAL TECHNOLOGIES

    Direct fuel injection is used to optimize efficiency and performance. With direct injection, a higher compression ratio — 9.8:1 — is possible because of a cooling effect as the injected fuel vaporizes in the combustion chamber, reducing the charge temperature to lessen the likelihood of spark knock. A pair of engine-mounted, camshaft-driven high-pressure fuel pumps supplies fuel to the specialized injectors at 5,075 psi (350 bar), with each pump supplying fuel to one bank of the engine.

    Active Fuel Management (AFM), also known as cylinder deactivation, imperceptibly shuts down half of the engine’s cylinders in certain light-load driving conditions to enhance fuel economy. Unique deactivating rocker arms are used for each of the four valves of the cylinder being deactivated.

    Dual overhead camshafts and a virtually silent chain-driven valvetrain contribute to the smoothness and the high output of the Cadillac Twin Turbo V-8, while dual independent continuously variable valve timing helps deliver optimal performance and efficiency. The dual independent system, which allows the intake and exhaust valves to be phased at different rates, promotes linear delivery of torque with near-peak levels over a broad rpm range, and high specific output (horsepower per liter of displacement) without sacrificing overall engine response or drivability.

    Oil jets located in the block are employed for performance and temperature control. Four jet assemblies in the engine drench the underside of the pistons and the surrounding cylinder walls with an extra layer of cooling, friction-reducing oil. The jets reduce piston temperature, allowing the engine to produce more power without reducing long-term durability.

    Variable-pressure oiling system. A variable-displacement vane oil pump enhances efficiency by optimizing oil pressure as a function of engine speed. With it, the oil supply is matched to the engine load rather than the linear operation of a conventional, fixed-flow oil pump.  The engine uses 10 quarts of General Motors’ dexos2 0W40 motor oil.

    Stop/start technology shuts down the engine when the vehicle stops momentarily, such as at stoplights. The engine automatically restarts when the driver takes their foot off the brake. An auxiliary battery powers electric accessories such as the climate system, power windows and radio during engine restarts.

    SPECIFICATIONS

    ENGINE

    Type:

    4.2L twin-turbocharged DOHC V-8 with Active Fuel Management, direct injection and stop/start

    Bore and stroke       (in / mm):

    3.39 x 3.55 / 86 x 90.2

    Block configuration:

    90-degree V-8 with five cross-bolted nodular iron main bearing caps; with provisions for jet-spray oil cooling

    Block material:

    A319 sand-cast aluminum with pressed-in iron liners

    Crankshaft:

    Forged steel

    Pistons:

    High-strength hypereutectic aluminum with friction-reducing polymer skirt coating

    Connecting rods:

    Forged steel with floating wrist pins

    Cylinder heads:

    Cast aluminum “hot V”-type with 36mm intake valves and 29mm sodium-filled exhaust valves

    Compression ratio:

    9.8:1

    Valvetrain:

    Dual overhead camshafts; four valves per cylinder with and dual independent valve timing

    Firing order:

    1-5-4-3-6-8-7-2 (1-4-6-7 with Active Fuel Management engaged)

    Ignition system:

    Coil-on-plug

    Fuel delivery:

    Direct injection with dual electronically controlled 59mm throttle bodies

    Turbocharging system:

    Two low-inertia twin-scroll turbochargers with electronically controlled wastegates and water-to-air intercooling

    Max boost:

    20 psi (1.38 bar / 138 kPa)

    Horsepower             (hp / kW @ rpm):

    550 / 410 @ 5700 (CT6 V-Sport) – est.

    500 / 373 @ 5000-5200 (CT6) – est.

    Torque
    (lb.-ft. / Nm):

    627 / 850 @ 3200-4000 (CT6 V-Sport) – est.

    553 / 750 @ 2600-4600 (CT6) – est.

     

    TRANSMISSION

    Type:

    Hydra-Matic 10L90 ten-speed electronically controlled automatic

    Gear ratios (:1)

    4.696 – 1st

    2.985 – 2nd

    2.146 – 3rd

    1.769 – 4th

    1.520 – 5th

    1.275 – 6th

    1.000 – 7th

    0.854 – 8th

    0.689 – 9th

    0.636 – 10th

    4.866 – Reverse

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    Recommended Comments



    1 minute ago, oldshurst442 said:

    From what I gather...there wont be any "re-badged" Chevy stigma...   :dizzy:

    (I cant believe Im still reading trolly responses like that in 2018...)

     

     

    Maybe a RWD/AWD XT5 would be taken more seriously by the press and favorably compared to BMW and MB, rather than just being a lowly FWD/AWD generic lease appliance like the Lexus LX, Lincoln MKX, etc...

    Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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    8 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    because a CTS was NEVER an Impala based car....EVER...

    never looked like the CTS could even BE an Impala.

    Image result for impala 2002 Image result for 2002 Cadillac CTS

     

    Image result for impala 2017Image result for 2017 Cadillac CTS

    So...either these guys you bumped into are trolls...much like yourself, or just cant stand Cadillac and/or GM and NOTHING that Cadillac and/or GM will do will EVER change that. Because quite honestly, NOBODY is THAT moronic and clueless to confuse a CTS of any generation with that of an Impala of any generation.

    Maybe if we went and compared a 1980s Caprice with a 1980s Fleetwood...but I doubt your entourage   were old enough to remember those cars...

     

    He's not wrong and those people aren't necessarily trolls.  People just aren't that knowledgeable.  Ages ago when I had just gotten my '04 CTS, a neighbor of mine came over to talk about it.  He was an owner of an STS.  He insisted that my CTS was FWD and Northstar powered and walked away in a huff saying I didn't know anything about cars when I corrected him. 

    A lot of people really just don't know. 

    1 minute ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    Maybe a RWD/AWD XT5 would be taken more seriously by the press and favorably compared to BMW and MB, rather than just being a lowly FWD/AWD generic lease appliance like the Lexus LX, Lincoln MKX, etc...

    Since when is a GLC or X3 not a lowly lease appliance?  That's pretty much all the vehicles in this segment are.  Status Leases.

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    1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    He's not wrong and those people aren't necessarily trolls.  People just aren't that knowledgeable.  Ages ago when I had just gotten my '04 CTS, a neighbor of mine came over to talk about it.  He was an owner of an STS.  He insisted that my CTS was FWD and Northstar powered and walked away in a huff saying I didn't know anything about cars when I corrected him. 

    A lot of people really just don't know. 

    The depth of stupid of the masses can't be underestimated.  I know a guy that thought his Avalon had a V4.

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    8 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    Actually, Cadillac doesn't have any rebadged Chevys, but does have platform sharing. The XTS shares a platform w/ the Impala, but isn't a rebadge.   Cadillac really doesn't have any rebadges of Chevy products--the Escalade shares the large SUV platform, but has significant differentiation from the Tahoe/Suburban/Yukon.    The XT5 has similar dirty bits to many Chevy, GMC, Buick FWD/AWD crossovers.

    They aren't the badge-jobs of a decade ago but they're the same vehicle with new fascias and slightly different interiors.. Close enough to non-enthusiasts. 

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    1 minute ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    Maybe a RWD/AWD XT5 would be taken more seriously by the press and favorably compared to BMW and MB, rather than just being a lowly FWD/AWD generic lease appliance like the Lexus LX, Lincoln MKX, etc...

    This much I agree.

    So..Drew, THIS would be a HUGE plus for a RWD CUV for Cadillac. Albeit the XT5 is still needed. And needed to be FWD based. There NEEDS to be high performance/high end RWD/AWD CUVs and SUVs for Cadillac...

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    4 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    From what I gather...there wont be any "re-badged" Chevy stigma...   :dizzy:

    (I cant believe Im still reading trolly responses like that in 2018...)

     

     

    I can't believe you think that's a "trolly" statement/post.

    13 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    Where is that stigma present in those 4 photographs?

    You don't need to try and convince me. Convince the general public. 

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    Just now, oldshurst442 said:

    This much I agree.

    So..Drew, THIS would be a HUGE plus for a RWD CUV for Cadillac. Albeit the XT5 is still needed. And needed to be FWD based. There NEEDS to be high performance/high end RWD/AWD CUVs and SUVs for Cadillac...

    I'm fine with that. I'm actually not a big fan of the XT5 myself... I would go GLC.  However, it has nothing to do with 0-60 or RWD/AWD.

    would be interested in a Traverse platform Cadillac that was restyled to look like a baby Escalade.... as long as they fixed the interior quibbles I have with the XT5 and maybe put the 3.0TT in there. 

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    5 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    He's not wrong and those people aren't necessarily trolls.  People just aren't that knowledgeable.  Ages ago when I had just gotten my '04 CTS, a neighbor of mine came over to talk about it.  He was an owner of an STS.  He insisted that my CTS was FWD and Northstar powered and walked away in a huff saying I didn't know anything about cars when I corrected him. 

    A lot of people really just don't know. 

    Since when is a GLC or X3 not a lowly lease appliance?  That's pretty much all the vehicles in this segment are.  Status Leases.

    I wasn't talking about the entry level crud, was thinking more the X5, GLE, GLS...

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    6 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    I can't believe you think that's a "trolly" statement/post.

    Well, yourself and Drew just now has proved to me that there are many idiots around. 

    I too have met idiots like that.  But those idiots are not car people to begin with. So...all kinds of shyte comes out of their mouths. 

    Im basing my statements calling them out as trolls to the people that ARE car people and have an inkling of what is actually happening in the automotive world.

    In Quebec, the furthest place in North America  that one could call it being a car enthusiast place, and I have yet to meet a car person that would be THAT dense....(non-car people aside...)

    THAT is how Im basing my statement. 

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    3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    They aren't the badge-jobs of a decade ago but they're the same vehicle with new fascias and slightly different interiors.. Close enough to non-enthusiasts. 

    The badge jobs are the other way around... XTS came out first, Impala came out later, ATS came out first / Camaro came out later.

    The Escalade is the only one that was released after the Chevy, but it has also gotten more updates in the meantime.  The XT5 and Acadia were released simultaneously. 

    1 minute ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    I wasn't talking about the entry level crud, was thinking more the X5, GLE, GLS...

    Those are a different segment.  GLC and XT5 compete in the same price class.  Cadillac doesn't really have a true entry to compete with the GLE/X5.  Escalade is the answer to GLS and does just fine in the market competing with Benz. 

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    2 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    The badge jobs are the other way around... XTS came out first, Impala came out later, ATS came out first / Camaro came out later.

    The Escalade is the only one that was released after the Chevy, but it has also gotten more updates in the meantime.  The XT5 and Acadia were released simultaneously. 

    Those are a different segment.  GLC and XT5 compete in the same price class.  Cadillac doesn't really have a true entry to compete with the GLE/X5.  Escalade is the answer to GLS and does just fine in the market competing with Benz. 

    Interesting...I would think of the XT5 as a midsize luxury CUV, while the GLC is a compact.  

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    2 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

     

    Well, yourself and Drew just now has proved to me that there are many idiots around. 

    I too have met idiots like that.  But those idiots are not car people to begin with. So...all kinds of shyte comes out of there mouths.

    Im basing my statements calling them out as trolls to the people that ARE car people and have an inkling of what is actually happening in the automotive world.

    In Quebec, the furthest place in North America  that one could call it being a car enthusiast place, and I have yet to meet a car person that would be THAT dense....

    THAT is how Im basing my statement. 

    Unfortunately, idiots buy cars.  You can go on the comments section of some of the larger automotive websites and see people who think the ATS is a rebadged Cruze.... so... fair warning... they're everywhere... even on enthusiast websites. 

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    Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

    Unfortunately, idiots buy cars.  You can go on the comments section of some of the larger automotive websites and see people who think the ATS is a rebadged Cruze.... so... fair warning... they're everywhere... even on enthusiast websites. 

    Yeah, I remember all the idiots over a decade ago that thought the GTO was a Cavalier.

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    Just now, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    Interesting...I would think of the XT5 as a midsize luxury CUV, while the GLC is a compact.  

    That is probably true that the XT5 has more room than the GLC.... that's probably the reason the XT5 sells better.

    The GLC starts at $40,050 / The XT5 starts at $40,595.

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    22 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    Because either you are trolling with this statement...

    Swear to God I'm not. I've talked to 2-3 people in the last 5 or so years. I corrected them but they still initially thought that. 

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    Just now, ccap41 said:

    Swear to God I'm not. I've talked to 2-3 people in the last 5 or so years. I corrected them but they still initially thought that. 

    Im sorry for that.

    Drew made that case loud and clear that idiots are in fact everywhere!

    Sorry.

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    18 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    A valid hypothesis. How has that helped Jaguar, Genesis, or Infiniti?  How has RWD helped Lexus? Their best sellers are still FWD and their worst sellers are RWD and consistently rank (undeservingly I might add) at the bottom of the sales charts for their segments. 

    Infiniti in particular saw big sales increases when they started moving back to FWD platforms.

    The bulk of Infiniti and Lexus brands sales hang on FWD vehicles.

    Cadillac saw huge sales increases when they moved the SRX from RWD to FWD, and dropped the V8.

    I'm thinking from a purely business perspective rather than an enthusiast perspective. How does Cadillac make more dollars by switching to RWD on a vehicle they already make a ton of money on?  How does a RWD XT5 translate to more CT5/S/6 sales?

    I also think Cadillac is stuck in a little awkward part of the industry because there are and will only be so many sales available each year and stealing from the giants in Germany no matter how good their product is is still just a ridiculous task(like Ford'd Fusion taking on the Camry and Accord). I see the point in not investing more and more in something that might not yield enough of a return.

    Jaguar and Genesis is still yet to be answered but the Genesis line is pretty impressive if you ask me. 

    I completely understand your last paragraph and I don't have a true answer for it. I'm not saying that they can or can't but I was just putting out there a legitimate argument, be it right or wrong. 

    28 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    So...either these guys you bumped into are trolls...much like yourself, or just cant stand Cadillac and/or GM and NOTHING that Cadillac and/or GM will do will EVER change that. Because quite honestly, NOBODY is THAT moronic and clueless to confuse a CTS of any generation with that of an Impala of any generation.

    Ever run into a non-car person and talk cars with them? That'd be the general public that isn't us. They're the people who have no clue aboue platform sharing, engine sharing, rebadging things, nothing. They see "pretty" or "not pretty". 

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    7 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

     

    Ever run into a non-car person and talk cars with them? That'd be the general public that isn't us. They're the people who have no clue aboue platform sharing, engine sharing, rebadging things, nothing. They see "pretty" or "not pretty". 

    Yup.  And I dont talk cars with them. Ive stopped conversatin' with people like that. IA while ago. Not too long ago though but I made it a rule that I wont be wasting my time with folk like that...on any subject, not just cars.  When I see the entourage near me be filled with cluelessness and clueless people, I stop being the person to enlighten and I have become the person to flee. 

    I enjoy the parties and get-togethers I go to much more now. 

     

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    7 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

     

    Ever run into a non-car person and talk cars with them? That'd be the general public that isn't us. They're the people who have no clue aboue platform sharing, engine sharing, rebadging things, nothing. They see "pretty" or "not pretty". 

    True, I used to have a coworker that had a BMW 5 series, that when I was talking to him about his E39 his eyes glazed over...'what's an E39?'.   Wasn't a serious BMW fan...

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    I think that RWD really is important for sedans, coupes, convertibles, etc.   While I don't believe that for my personal purchases, I do see why it matters in the market. 

    Crossovers are a totally different beast. People simply don't buy them for performance.  Furthermore, in crossovers, if people care about anything it is that they are AWD rather then FWD or RWD. Once they hear that the vehicle has AWD, they go deaf to which way the engine faces... it just doesn't matter. They'll care more about if it has Apple Carplay or not (I know that is certainly a higher factor for me than a transverse mounted engine).

    If there is anything holding back the XT5, it isn't the powertrain. The 3.6 + 9-speed is more than up to the task of moving the XT5 along briskly.  Could there be a more powerful option? Sure, but the percentage of takers is likely to be small.... it would exist purely to keep loud enthusiasts who won't buy a Cadillac anyway from flapping their gums. 

    There are a number of interior issues that I see in the XT5 that aren't related to its platform.  The plastics on the lower doors where the map pockets are is horrible. Anything lower than the dashboard is pretty bad.  The switchgear doesn't feel premium. The leather isn't as nice feeling. These are all reasons to pick a GLC over an XT5... and the exact reasons I would myself.... the powertrain is fine though. 

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    One way I do think that a Cadillac midsize RWD/AWD SUV instead or in addition to the current XT5 CUV could work is if its platform were shared w/ GMC.  A  Grand Cherokee competitor would fit nicely at GMC..picture a GMC Trailhawk competitor and 'Denali' (Summit competitor). 

    Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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    Just now, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    One way I do think that a Cadillac midsize RWD/AWD SUV instead or in addition to the current XT5 CUV could work is if its platform were shared w/ GMC.  A  Grand Cherokee competitor would fit nicely at GMC..picture a GMC Trailhawk competitor and 'Denali' (Summit competitor). 

    This would be a fantastic addition to the Cadillac lineup in addition to the XT5... but not instead of.  Dropping the XT5 would be dropping customers for no reason. 

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    53 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    The badge jobs are the other way around... XTS came out first, Impala came out later, ATS came out first / Camaro came out later.

    WE know this. General public probably absolutely no clue which exactly came first. 

    They, more than likely, see 100 times more Impalas and just think that came first because they probably saw them first. 

    50 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    Yeah, I remember all the idiots over a decade ago that thought the GTO was a Cavalier.

    If that's the case... one Cavalier, please! 

    48 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    Im sorry for that.

    Drew made that case loud and clear that idiots are in fact everywhere!

    Sorry.

    :thumbsup: No worries

    Edited by ccap41
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    47 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    One way I do think that a Cadillac midsize RWD/AWD SUV instead or in addition to the current XT5 CUV could work is if its platform were shared w/ GMC.  A  Grand Cherokee competitor would fit nicely at GMC..picture a GMC Trailhawk competitor and 'Denali' (Summit competitor). 

    That'd be nice. I'd like that as well. 

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    1 hour ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    Maybe a RWD/AWD XT5 would be taken more seriously by the press and favorably compared to BMW and MB, rather than just being a lowly FWD/AWD generic lease appliance like the Lexus LX, Lincoln MKX, etc...

    Yet Audi has had great SALES INCREASES with their FWD/AWD platform and it has not hurt them nor is there any stigma about them being FWD/AWD just like Cadillac, Acura, Lexus, etc..........

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    1 minute ago, dfelt said:

    Yet Audi has had great SALES INCREASES with their FWD/AWD platform and it has not hurt them nor is there any stigma about them being FWD/AWD just like Cadillac, Acura, Lexus, etc..........

    Yeah...but about that...

    Could it also be that Audi interiors are, like awesome, and when people actually sit inside an Audi CUV or SUV or sedan above the A4 car, are impressed and when are cross shopping with other brands like Acura, Buick, Infiniti, Cadillac and the like, are less impressed and go on to buy that Audi instead? 

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    6 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Yet Audi has had great SALES INCREASES with their FWD/AWD platform and it has not hurt them nor is there any stigma about them being FWD/AWD just like Cadillac, Acura, Lexus, etc..........

    Audi has long been about AWD, while BMW and MB have long RWD histories.   Audi doesn't have a RWD heritage.  And Audi's key strengths are their interiors and subtle, crisp exterior styling. 

    Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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    1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

    This much I agree.

    So..Drew, THIS would be a HUGE plus for a RWD CUV for Cadillac. Albeit the XT5 is still needed. And needed to be FWD based. There NEEDS to be high performance/high end RWD/AWD CUVs and SUVs for Cadillac...

    We have seen plenty of FWD/AWD auto's that are performance AWD models. I think you could easily beef up the proper powertrain components and have a V-Sport edition of the XT5 using the TTV6 or if it could fit, wedge in the TTV8 and have an XT5 V edition.

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    4 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    We have seen plenty of FWD/AWD auto's that are performance AWD models. I think you could easily beef up the proper powertrain components and have a V-Sport edition of the XT5 using the TTV6 or if it could fit, wedge in the TTV8 and have an XT5 V edition.

    Well, of course.

    But where is that XT5-V? Or any other performance oriented CUV from Cadillac? 

    The Germans are pumping out all kinds of models. Sure, they are pumping them out at an insane rate and its more akin to see what sticks rather than business savvy, but still. The models are there. 

    Cadillac makes concepts that has the planet salivating, ALL THE PLANET, and are afraid to build it.  (minus the couple that they did build, but failed miserably in the market-place, but that was because of their piss-poor execution than anything else, which means that Cadillac product planners got no clue of what is going on in the market place...) 

     

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    I don't think there is much market for an XT5-V in it's current form...Lexus doesn't have a RX-F, for instance. The women in the burbs leasing these don't have interest in a performance CUV.  

     Now a performance Cadillac SUV with a RWD/AWD chassis and V8 ala the M-B AMG GLE 63 or BMW X5M could be interesting....

    Or working with what they have, how about a heavyweight Escalade V-sport or V with this new twin turbo V8? 

    Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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    1 hour ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    True, I used to have a coworker that had a BMW 5 series, that when I was talking to him about his E39 his eyes glazed over...'what's an E39?'.   Wasn't a serious BMW fan...

    boy.........

    :P 

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    19 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    I don't think there is much market for an XT5-V in it's current form...Lexus doesn't have a RX-F, for instance. The women in the burbs leasing these don't have interest in a performance CUV.  

     Now a performance Cadillac SUV with a RWD/AWD chassis and V8 ala the M-B AMG GLE 63 or BMW X5M could be interesting....

    Or working with what they have, how about a heavyweight Escalade V-sport or V with this new twin turbo V8? 

    Yes. I agree to the XT5-V not being much of an interest and therefore not a money maker or at the very least, getting people in the showroom.

    Soccer moms, suburban housewives, scrawny yuppie middle managers that think they got a clue but really dont, dont really buy into performance vehicles of any kind really.  And they dont get excited when the sales rep talks to them about high performance either. They dont go out of their way to visit a showroom based on the fact that Model XYZ won the 24 hours of Lemans or the Nascar race on Sunday and want to buy the baby version of that car or any other car in the showroom...and the XT5 or the RX or the X1 from BMW are just vehicles with luxury intentions that makes them feel good...

    The Escalade...now that would be something of an interesting footnote in automotive history if Cadillac engineered  and offered something wild in powertrain and in sporty suspension demeanor options. 

    "If it aint broke dont fix it" would not apply here as the Escalade aint broke and it sells just fine. 

    But "why the phoque not???!!!" would do wonders in getting people in the showrooms just to look at one and see for themselves how stupendously nutty the vehicle might be and you never know, they may just drive off in a brand new CTS-V instead because they would deem the Escalade ESV-V too crazy and weird to explain to their neighbours...

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    I hope (and expect) that the rest of the CT6 lineup will be updated to the new look.... minus the V-Sport flourishes of course. 

    I also hope they add an Extended Length model. 

    I can see sales of a CT6-L edition.

    Awesome would be a CT6-L V-Sport and CT6-L V edition. :D 

    21 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    Well, of course.

    But where is that XT5-V? Or any other performance oriented CUV from Cadillac? 

    The Germans are pumping out all kinds of models. Sure, they are pumping them out at an insane rate and its more akin to see what sticks rather than business savvy, but still. The models are there. 

    Cadillac makes concepts that has the planet salivating, ALL THE PLANET, and are afraid to build it.  (minus the couple that they did build, but failed miserably in the market-place, but that was because of their piss-poor execution than anything else, which means that Cadillac product planners got no clue of what is going on in the market place...) 

     

    Bravo and VALID points! :cheers:

    Totally agree that they seem to be missing many models in their lineup. This I blame on Johan being an idiot and not getting the right product to market faster. Yes Cadillac has made great progress since the First Escalade, but they need to speed up getting said product out and turning Amazing Concepts into actual Products.

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    19 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    I don't think there is much market for an XT5-V in it's current form...Lexus doesn't have a RX-F, for instance. The women in the burbs leasing these don't have interest in a performance CUV.  

     Now a performance Cadillac SUV with a RWD/AWD chassis and V8 ala the M-B AMG GLE 63 or BMW X5M could be interesting....

    Or working with what they have, how about a heavyweight Escalade V-sport or V with this new twin turbo V8? 

    I would take the current Escalade with the TTV8 as a V-Sport and with the Supercharged V8 as the V edition.

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    I don't see the business model for all the variants that BMW and Mercedes are producing.  I think they are throwing spitballs at the wall and seeing what sticks. They'll have to cut them back eventually.

    Cadillac is not "daring greatly" lately..... nor is GM as a whole.

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    18 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    I don't see the business model for all the variants that BMW and Mercedes are producing.  I think they are throwing spitballs at the wall and seeing what sticks. They'll have to cut them back eventually.

    Cadillac is not "daring greatly" lately..... nor is GM as a whole.

    I think it IS a business model. To see what sticks. Eliminate what doesnt. 

    Find what works and go that way, get rid of what doesnt.  And yes, eventually, they trim the fat. But not without creating a fan base for their vehicles. Even the models that did not sell all the well, still had some buyers...they were in THAT showroom.  And now that their vehicle wont be coming back, maybe they had a good experience with that model and will be back in that very showroom buying another M-B...

    I know what I just said could be challenged with brand loyalty data...it still does not change the fact that even with the slow selling models, people got to experience a BMW or Mercedes Benz vehicle.

    That is MORE than Cadillac since Cadillac has NO models that these people would consider buying as Cadillac lacks many many products in many many niches...

    And yes, Cadillac or GM, other than Corvette or Camaro or the V Series Cadillacs, are not daring greatly.

    And I dont mean speed, but awesome engineering and taking chances and growing the brands that are Camaro, Corvette or V-Series...

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

     

    Cadillac is in the business of making money. With the XT5, they are probably printing it since it's just an Acadia with different styling. So I ask again, do you see a switch to RWD as something that would push the XT5 to sell better than the RX?   Would moving to RWD increase sales enough to make up for the lost profits of a more expensive (due to lower volume) platform? Does a move to RWD satisfy anyone other than enthusiasts who aren't buying in the segment anyway?

    Explain the business case, in dollars, as to why Cadillac should make such a move. 

    If the XT5 was rear drive then it would start at $50k instead of $40k and the XT5-V with this new 550 hp V8 would cost $110,000 which is more than they get for a CTS-V or Escalade.  There is your profit margin and business case.  

    Then the XT4 would start at $40,000, rather than the $34k or whatever it has to start at to get under the XT5 and that XT4-V could run up to $75-80k, probably more than they charge for an ATS-V.  

    Then you get an XT4 fwd Equinox clone at $34k if you need a volume low lease price leader.

    1 hour ago, dfelt said:

    Yet Audi has had great SALES INCREASES with their FWD/AWD platform and it has not hurt them nor is there any stigma about them being FWD/AWD just like Cadillac, Acura, Lexus, etc..........

    Audi has longitude mount engines so their weight balance isn't destroyed like a transverse mounted engine car, and Audi's interiors aren't crap.

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    1 hour ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    I don't think there is much market for an XT5-V in it's current form...Lexus doesn't have a RX-F, for instance. The women in the burbs leasing these don't have interest in a performance CUV.  

     Now a performance Cadillac SUV with a RWD/AWD chassis and V8 ala the M-B AMG GLE 63 or BMW X5M could be interesting....

    Or working with what they have, how about a heavyweight Escalade V-sport or V with this new twin turbo V8? 

    Using Omega to make a GLE63 or X5 M or even X7 M competitor makes sense.   You can put this 550 hp engine in the Escalade just for the sake of charging more money for it (and they should do that) but the Escalade will never be sporty, it is too heavy and has a solid rear axle, etc.  But it works for the G-wagen, people pay $150k for it.  I could see charging $150k for an Escalade V-sport, even if they sell 50 of them a month, who cares, it is a $50k upgrade for an engine and some trim, why not go for it.

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    1 hour ago, balthazar said:

    AMG GLS is heavier than an Escalade.

    Nope, a 4WD Escalade 5,856 lbs and a GLS63 is 5,754 lbs.  But they are moving the GLS to a new platform that will cut weight for 2019 anyway, problem solved.

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    I saw different numbers. No matter; the 2 are statistically identical in weight, so your theory that the Escalade is too heavy is invalidated. Next gen E will get lighter also, so "problem solved".

    BTW, I did read elsewhere that the 4.2TT is, in fact, going to get under the E's hood.

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    @balthazar @smk4565

    Pretty much a wash between AWD models, but the 2WD Escalade is the same weight as the awd GLS 550.

    image.png

    image.png

    I am sure both companies will shed some weight with their next models. Plus GM can put in more powerful NA V8's, so many more reliable GM engine options than MB has. :P

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    17 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    If the XT5 was rear drive then it would start at $50k instead of $40k and the XT5-V with this new 550 hp V8 would cost $110,000 which is more than they get for a CTS-V or Escalade.  There is your profit margin and business case.  

    Then the XT4 would start at $40,000, rather than the $34k or whatever it has to start at to get under the XT5 and that XT4-V could run up to $75-80k, probably more than they charge for an ATS-V.  

    Then you get an XT4 fwd Equinox clone at $34k if you need a volume low lease price leader.

    Audi has longitude mount engines so their weight balance isn't destroyed like a transverse mounted engine car, and Audi's interiors aren't crap.

    If your argument is that Cadillac needs a RWD crossover, I'm there with you.  Where I disagree with you is the assertion that the XT5 must be that vehicle. I see no reason why both cannot exist in the Cadillac lineup.   It's not a one-or-other issue.  Cadillac can sell a baby Escalade in RWD form right alongside the current XT5.  There is absolutely no reason that Cadillac should abandon a segment they are one of the best sellers in. 

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    17 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    If the XT5 was rear drive then it would start at $50k instead of $40k and the XT5-V with this new 550 hp V8 would cost $110,000 which is more than they get for a CTS-V or Escalade.  There is your profit margin and business case.

    I agree but you still need people to buy those vehicles at those prices. Just because they make them doesn't mean their sales will remain where they are for a more profitable vehicle. 

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    Also, the assertion that Audi's handling isn't bad relative to the segment is wrong. They are consistently rated lower than BMW, MB, RWD Infinitis, Cadillac, RWD Lexus.  The last SRX actually handled excellently. The XT5 is just "eh", but the point is that FWD and handling are not mutually exclusive.

     Audi's have just as much, if not more weight in front of the front axle than any transverse mounted setup. They plow hard in turns and it is only through Quattro doing its computer assisted magic that the cars don't end up in the trees. 

    The entirety of Audi's engines sit ahead of the axle centerline... even the old FWD northstars move the weight further back than that.2016-Audi-S8-Plus-Drivetrain-2-2560x1600.jpg

     

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    So Audi has the engine longitudinally mounted ahead of the front axle... odd.    Now that is on the A4 and larger sedan/coupe models, what about the smaller models like the A1 and A3--aren't those transverse FWD/AWD like VWs? 

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    2 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    So Audi has the engine longitudinally mounted ahead of the front axle... odd.    Now that is on the A4 and larger sedan/coupe models, what about the smaller models like the A1 and A3--aren't those transverse FWD/AWD like VWs? 

    The transverse Audis actually have better engine positioning than the longitudinally oriented Audis. Any Audi with a number below 4 and the TT will have a transverse engine. 

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BMW Cadillac Ford Genesis Hyundai Kia Mercedes Rivian Tesla A busy weekend ensued and the experiences of driving so many different EVs showed where some succeeded and others fell short. Clearly some are still holding onto ICE (internal combustion engine) legacy engineering approach and others delivered on what is called a clean sheet design. Here was our weekend experience with the following brands: BMW - iX was a nice drive, interface experience was fine, it actually had plenty of room in the front, a little tighter in the back but for short drives, another person my size could sit behind me and would be fine. Exterior is a styling love / hate experience. Wife is not a fan of the huge kidney bean grill; she said it looked like a pig nose on steroids. The side profile was fine, and the back end looked like it was pinched in molding the design. Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported, overall, it would still be considered. Salesperson was polite and not pushy. Cadillac - Lyriq was the quietest drive of the day, Cadillac has nailed it, fast, solid and overall, a luxury EV ride. Interior over all was good, a little tight on head space with the sky roof, but the seat goes down far enough to adjust for that, interface of the dash was good. Android Auto / Apple Carplay is supported for the 2024 model year but is supposedly going away for the 2025 model year being replaced with the GM play store. Exterior styling my wife was fine with, better front end looks than the BMW. Would be on the consideration list. Salesperson was polite and not pushy. Nice balance of buttons to touch screen. Ford - Test drove an F150 Lighting and the Mach e, interior was fine, she liked the space and comfort. Was hoping for a midsize pickup truck, so ruled out the Lighting. Mach e she liked, both fit comfortably and clearly anyone could sit behind me my size and smaller. Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported. Major dislike was the salesperson who was very pushy and made comments that told my wife he was a male chauvinistic pig. He actually told me to man up as the wife would drive whatever I decided since I was the man. Big mistake as we do everything in equal partnership, so his approach failed to work. Mach e is still in consideration, we will go with another salesperson, maybe even another dealership. Genesis - GV60 / GV70, exterior was fine, though the GV60 she did say reminded her of a jellybean. Interior was very luxurious, but no one could sit behind me in the GV60, would be fine for short trips in the GV70. Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported. Interface was easy to use. She loved the interior but had reservations on the exterior but could not put her finger on it. GV70 would be in consideration. Nice balance of buttons to touch screen. Hyundai - Ioniq 5 SUV. She was not wowed by the exterior, felt it was sitting a bit low, bunker style, yet interior had plenty of room, Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported. Solid candidate to consider. Salesperson was nice, normal pushy attempts to have us make a decision, but as we told him, we still had others to test drive. Nice balance of buttons to touch screen. Kia - EV6 / EV9 - Exterior was not bad, was clearly different than many of the other EVs we had seen. EV6 is super tight inside for me, was fine for the wife as was the interface of their dashboard. No one could sit behind me. EV6 was out she said. EV9 was great, more room inside than our Escalade. Anyone could sit behind me, spacious for both of us and would transport anyone in comfort. Liked the exterior styling much more than many of the others we had test drove to date. Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported. Salesperson super nice and not pushy. Solid candidate. Nice balance of buttons to touch screen. Mercedes - EQS, interior was nice, driving was the second quietest behind the Cadillac. Interface was fine, but lower menus seemed cluttered. We liked the interior for the most part, the hard part of this EV was the exterior lack of any real styling. The worst Jellybean style around. Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported, Salesperson was super nice and not pushy, but as we told him when we thanked him for his time, the auto needs an identity. Wife said for her daily driver, this was a hard pass. Rivian - R1T / R1S - Exterior was a win for the wife right up there with the EV9 from Kia. Interior was also a big win as it was spacious and comfortable front and back. Interface was easy to use, over all a nice balance of buttons to touch screen. Sadly, Rivian is off the list as she asked the counselor about Android Auto / Apple Carplay, no support, no plan to support it. Must buy your apps from the Rivian store, failure big time we felt. Bummer as Rivian was a leading candidate for us. Tesla - Due to friends who have Tesla, even with her knowing my dislike for the Tesla CEO, she wanted to check out the Y / X. Overall the experience in talking with their counselor was good, good people skills, they went over the interface with the wife, in the meantime she saw that while I could fit in the Y, no one could sit behind me. in the X I could also fit, but only about 2 inches of space from the back of the seat to the back seat. Wife asked about Android Auto and Apple Carplay, they told her no plans, they offered her a test drive and she passed. Told me it was a bit weird in how you used the single interface in the center of the dash and a few other things, minimalist failure to her. Pass on Tesla. Now that we had spent a long weekend driving so many EVs, I asked her what her thoughts were on what she was leaning towards. She told me give her a few weeks to digest the information and she would let me know. While the wife digested the EV overload of info, I moved onto researching the EV technology of these auto makers. Auto EV Platform Info 2024.pdf One key item is that I do not want to be behind the 8 ball of technology standards. In this case, I am talking about companies that are on 400V platforms versus 800V platforms. in this case, this brings us down to the following, Cadillac, Genesis, Hyundai and Kia as everyone else is on 400V platforms and already have announced that 2025 and 2026 model years will be the conversion to new 800V platforms. Knowing my wife, one does not rush her, when she is ready, she will let me know, weeks passed by and finally one day at breakfast, she said I have an answer for you. I like the Cadillac Lyriq and the Kia EV9 the best. I want heated seats, steering wheel and AWD, otherwise I could care less about other features. In looking on the websites for my local dealerships, the Cadillac dealership that I have bought from before was sold during the pandemic to Brotherton Cadillac of Renton. So Brotherton Cadillac NW is the dealership near me, and the wife and I reviewed all the Lyriqs and settled on the following:  Cadillac Lyriq Sport 2 AWD Celestial Metallic. This paint color is a color shifting paint that covers purple to silver / grey spectrum depending on the light of the day and especially as I discovered sun versus rain. In the sun it is a radiant purplish color and under dark raining weather a serious silver/dark grey.     Chuck Olson Kia which is less than a mile away from Brotherton Cadillac NW on HWY 99 here in the greater Seattle area had a nice assortment EV9s in Wind, Land and GT versions. They had the traditional blue GT and an Ice Green that the wife really liked. So I settled on the Ice Green to test drive and see what the final price would be. Again, like the Lyriq, the ICE Green metallic paint job has a dominant blueness but turns various shades of lite green to greenish blue depending on the light of the day. At this point we get to the nitty gritty of the dealing, Price paid, rebates, final pricing to determine what the deal ends up being. Over dinner, the wife and I discussed the options of buying versus leasing and to both of us, it made sense at this early stage to lease rather than buy an EV. The addition of the IRA $7,500 rebate also played into our decision. For Cadillac the Lyriq qualifies again for the full $7,500 rebate whether you buy or lease, in the case of the Kia, due to manufacturing in Korea, the EV9 only qualifies for the rebate if you lease. This fall, Kia and Hyundai start manufacturing in the US allowing their EVs to get the full $7,500 rebate if buying. For me, I wanted to see what a zero down Lease deal would be as a starting point before paying down. Depending on credit rating, most auto leases require anywhere from $3,000 to $10,000 down and of course the more you pay down, the lower your monthly payment is. The nature of my work allows me flexibility and as such, I was able to go on a Friday morning at 10am to the Brotherton Cadillac NW to test drive the Lyriq Sport 2 edition. In fact the EV is still on the lot now almost two weeks later. New 2024 Blue Cadillac 4dr Sport w/1SJ LYRIQ for Sale North of Seattle, VIN = 1GYKPVRL1RZ127387 (brothertoncadillacnw.com) Upon driving onto the lot, I parked and saw the Lyriq as it shinned in the morning sun giving that purplish glow that my wife liked. I walked up and checked it out externally and it looked great. After about 10 minutes of checking the Lyriq out, I was still not approached by anyone, so I went into the sales floor and asked if I could talk with someone about a Lyriq. First salesperson said I needed to talk to their EV specialist and walked away, a second person came out of a side hallway and asked if I was being taken care of and I told them what just happened, and I was still standing here. He did apologize and asked me to wait just a moment and he would get the specialist.  A young man came out, introduced himself and asked me if I had any special model in mind and if I wanted to take a test drive. I took him out to show him the one I was interested in. He took down their special code and left to get the keys. At this point, over all experience with the dealership was not bad, neutral for me as it is nothing personal, just business and some do it better than others. The sales rep returned with the keys, he opened up the Lyriq and took me on a tour of the auto pointing out many of the features and explaining the functional differences between how it works on the EV versus an ICE auto. This I have to say was very welcomed as it showed me the man had knowledge of the auto and could show / explain to me how it was to be used. I appreciate this as my wife is not a tech person but show her how to do it and she it set, so this was a good start. We did the traditional driver's license and insurance validation, signed on the dotted line and I then took off for a road trip in the Lyriq. Android auto works as expected, over all interface was easy to understand and use with a nice balance of common used items in physical form right under the screen. Steering wheel had all the expected buttons and dials for using the auto. The Noise canceling of the auto gave it a quiet ride that I have never experienced before and still to this day is the best yet of all the EVs I have test driven.  Negative of the Lyriq is that it is not a true SUV, you sit lower more car like and headroom while I would be fine, required me to drop the seat to the bottom of it's settings which makes my driving position even lower. Knowing that this is the wife's auto, I returned to the dealership to talk price. Here is where things started to go south and why people hate dealerships. I tried my best to negotiate in good faith for a fair price on the EV. The dealership replied that it was the hottest ride available and as such no discounts, you paid the price they had on the auto which was MSRP plus $5,000. I informed them that no I was not going to pay over MSRP for an auto that shows over 300 are available in the greater Seattle area.  The Dealership then said fine, they would sell it at MSRP to me. Knowing that I get $7,500 off I was not put off by this but also not happy that they would not go down on the price. I told them at this point I was interested in leasing and wanted to see what the lease rate would be for 15,000 miles a year for three years. Here is where it got ugly.  The sales rep came back to me and had a handwritten piece of paper with a TRD (Total after Rebates and Discounts) price, Lease money factor number, Residual price and monthly payment including tax. The monthly payment was a little over $1,200 a month. I asked to see firm numbers showing the selling price minus the IRA rebate, tax, etc. all lined up so that I can understand the numbers. I was informed this is how leases are done, your rebate is figured into the residual amount and that this is all the accurate info they provide the buyer. If I agree to this, they can then process and sell me the Lyriq. I told the man that this handwritten paper did not explain any of what I asked to verify and see, so they would need to properly print out or hand write all details in order for me to make a decision. The rep left and was gone for about 10 minutes and then came back with another salesperson who reminded me of a traditional wild west snake oil salesman who tried to use the same paper I was shown and yet tell me I was not able to understand the complexities of leases and should trust him on this awesome monthly cost. When I told him I would not accept that vague random info, he then moved into the terrible game of "What can you afford a month?" Here is where many people either give up and accept or leave as they feel overwhelmed, I on the other hand laughed and told him that I would not play his game. Show me the valid real numbers with a final price on the Lyriq before processing for the Lease monthly amount.  My wife always told me I was a very frustrating person when it came to buying an auto as I would push for facts and have on more than one occasion made salespeople cry when they could not get their way playing their monthly afford game. This is how people get ripped off and taken advantage of. The two folks left and came back with the sales manager who tried again with the paper to spin a different tale. At this point, I said fine, I would consider this as I needed to talk with the wife, and she would need to drive the auto anyway before we would buy.  Leaving the Cadillac dealership, I drove south to Chuck Olson Kia, figured I would see how the EV9 drove again and see what kind of deal I could get. Arriving at the dealership, I saw the EV9 I was interested in on the lot, looked it over and turned around to see if I can get some help and a young man greeted me and said he was with another customer, but would let another salesperson know I was looking at that EV9. Only a few minutes later, the sales rep came out, greeted me and had the keys so he opened up the EV and showed me the SUV.  Here the experience was similar in that we took the EV9 in Ice Green for a drive. As I drove it, I was informed about the various features and how they all worked. An overview that was enjoyable as I drove the near silent EV locally. I did notice that it was not as quiet as the Lyriq, but most would not really notice the difference, everything else on the road was far louder. We returned to the dealership and sat down; I asked the rep for the best price on this EV9 he could give me. He left to talk to his manager. Now I was comparing the price of the Lyriq Sport level 2 to this EV9 AWD Land edition and the MSRP price between the two was within a hundred dollars of each other. The EV9 had a number of features that the Lyriq did not have unless I paid substantially more and go to the top end Sport Level 3. At this point the Kia was winning on features giving it a better value due to the two being priced nearly the same. The sales rep came back to the table with a price that was $5,000 off MSRP. I felt based on internet searching that this was a fair price and felt it was good. I asked him then at this price with my IRA rebate of $7,500 what would a three-year lease with 15,000 miles a year cost me per month. The rep said give him a few minutes to have the manager put this in the system and he would come back with a detailed price for me. The salesperson returned about 10 minutes later with a Deal Sheet for me to review. Here is where the difference became clear between this Kia Dealership and the Cadillac Dealership. The Deal Sheet had all the numbers listed out clearly. Any person could walk through this in full understanding. The lease deal, started off with the Stock number for the EV9, had the MSRP listed, discount, then Selling price of the EV9. This was followed by a blank field for accessories or add on sales items as the sales rep explained. The rebate for $7,500 was clearly listed, blank space for Trade, cash cap reduction, license fee, doc fee ending in a final price of the EV that was then broken down by 36 months @ 15,000 miles a year for a Base monthly rental cost and then the sales tax on the whole deal which was broken down into monthly tax rate added to the monthly lease amount. Residual value at the end of the lease, a residual money factor that is a decimal number used to figure out the monthly lease rate. All in all, a very clear understandable deal and the monthly price for the EV9 was $837 per month compared to $1,200 plus for the Cadillac. I told the salesperson that I would need to talk to my wife when she got home tonight and would give him a call back. As I was getting ready to leave, I realized I had forgotten to ask an important question. Could the front driver and passenger windows be tinted to match the rest of the auto. Due to having had skin cancer, blocking out UV plus just having it darker is what I prefer. The sales rep said he believed so but would have to check with his manager and could call me if I gave him my number later. I left him my cell number and headed home. Sitting at home, I was thinking about the experience at the Cadillac dealership and wondering, can it really be that bad at any other dealership? So, I did a search and found the identical Cadillac Lyriq Sport 2 AWD Celestial Metallic at the Bellevue Cadillac dealership and much farther away at Larson Cadillac of Fife. Off to Bellevue I went. Arriving at the Bellevue Cadillac dealership, I was promptly greeted and professionally questioned on the auto I was interested in. The young man was always polite and more than happy to help me. This dealership is one of the newly built from the ground up dealerships that truly echo's Luxury and what I would expect from a luxury dealership. Due to the knowledge of the salesperson like the other dealership, it started off positive, went out to check and see if the auto their website stated they had on hand was actually there. It was, Identical to the one at Brotherton Cadillac NW in Shoreline Washington. At this point, I gave him the same info I had given the other person to see what the pricing would be. Ten minutes later he returned with a printed sheet of paper, that was better than handwritten. Had a set sale price that was a couple thousand off the MSRP, had a rebate of $1,000 showing a reduced price, document fee, licensing and a theft engraving that he said they do on all autos sold there so nothing I could do about not wanting it. The total at the end showed a lease money factor, term, mileage and residual with a base payment of $1,042 dollars. with no money down.  Now two things I noticed, one was that the IRA rebate was not showing anywhere on the paperwork and the second item was that at least their price was over $200 less than the other dealership. I inquired about the $7,500 rebate and he said he did not know and would go ask. Upon returning he said it was factored into the residual value of the Lyriq when I traded it back in. I pointed out that the rebate does not go into a value of the vehicle but is paid to the dealership and so comes off the price of the auto. Things continued to go downhill from here as I was told by him that I did not understand how leasing worked. His sales manager stopped by, and I pointed this out, same response, I do not understand how leasing works. I informed them that I would need to present this to my wife and discuss it with her. They attempted the pressure response of get her on the phone, we can explain it and you can drive home in your new EV. They were not happy with me and would not let me have the paperwork. When they stepped out to talk, I snapped a quick picture of the printed paperwork. Two Cadillac dealerships, two different lease prices on the identically spec / priced Lyriq Sport 2 and no honest showing of where the rebate would end up at.  Heading home this made me wonder about Cadillac and their EV focus which we have since learned in the news has changed to having ICE and EV through 2030 and beyond. At home, I explained my day of EV shopping to the wife, she was disappointed that Cadillac was not forthcoming with their pricing. She liked the looks of the Lyriq as much as the looks of the Kia EV9. At this point the phone rang, and it was the sales rep for Kia. He informed me that yes, the doors could be tinted and that his sales manager if we were willing to move forward with the deal would throw in the front window tinting. We setup an appointment for Saturday morning to go and test drive the EV9 with the wife to ensure she would be happy driving it. For full details on our EV9 Purchase read this story: Now at this point, I figured I would relax for the evening, but I got another phone call from a sales rep at Larson Cadillac who informed me that the Lyriq I was interested was already sold at their dealership, but he could make me another deal on a like existing Lyriq, different color. I informed him that my wife liked the 800V Lyriq in the Celestial Metallic. The man on the other end of the phone said he could see if they could do a trade to get what we were interested in, but he wanted me to understand that the Lyriq was not a true 800V EV. I was surprised by his comment and asked him why it was not a true 800V EV. I learned and have verified that the only EV GM makes that truly can handle 350 kW fast charging is the Hummers, the Lyriq has an 800V electrical system, but the battery packs are first generation and as such only rated at 400V meaning they have a top charging speed of 150 kW. GM is planning to roll out 800V battery packs starting with the Chevrolet and GMC full size pickups. All other EVs will continue to use the 400V battery packs for now. At this point, I thanked the man for his time and would think on it and get back to him. As a person wanting to be current, this takes me to the Kia EV9 only. I did not say anything to my wife about the tech and hoped she would be happy with how it drove. Luckily that was a success the next day. I have spent half my life on the sales side and in training new sales folks there is a pretty basic 5 step process in sales: 1) Greet the customer inquiring what brought them in today 2) Qualify the person on what they want 3) Trial close to see if they are ready 4) Clarify questions and overcome concerns 5) Close the Sale. To accomplish this basic 5 steps, you first have to fully train the individual in what they are selling. Here Cadillac clearly is not or possibly the dealerships are not wanting to ensure everyone know how to sell an EV. Recap of this whole shopping experience is that Kia is nailing it with a professional sales experience, knowledgeable people on their products and a sales / lease process that is clear hiding nothing from allowing you to commit to buying or leasing a new auto. Cadillac on the other hand has left me with the feeling of snake oil salespersons at both dealerships with vague pricing, vague rebates and me wondering just how much they really want to earn my repeat business as I would love to replace my current Escalade with an Escalade IQ, but at this point, Genesis the luxury brand for Hyundai / Kia will reveal their Full Size GV90 ICE/Hybrid/Electric SUV summer of 2024 and I might just be replacing it with a Genesis. Any questions, ask away.   View full article
    • Rivian? Value? That's hilarious.🤣
    • Let me put it this way, The amount of money I saved with the interior having more room inside than my current Escalade and the silent comfort, It is a win to me with not having to deal with any of the ICE maintenance or gas trips. My leasing / buying story should help enlighten you on why leasing an EV is a good thing right now. I am also putting in a Level 2 charger at the house that will be another story on the research, cost, etc. So you can follow up on that story too.
    • I stumbled upon a small meetup this weekend. There's a new custom/restoration shop about two blocks from my home and I was walking to a Casey's to grab a cake donut for my wife (hahaha) and this is right next to the Casey's.  This grey Chevelle was perfect, absolutely perfect. The plate is the name of the shop, Xtreme (restoration, bodywork, modification). I'm sure this is their show piece, and what a piece of work/art it is! I believe the van is theirs as well.  Later that day we ran to Aldi and came across the International Scout. it was far from mint condition, but it was "pretty good" but even cooler to see it just out and about. 
    • That's an exciting purchase, EV is tempting to me, but I still think all these current Gen EV's are too expensive compared to ICE cars.  If they can cut weight and cost 15% then I think the flood gates open on EV sales.
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