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    David

    Silverado Electric Pickup to have Four-Wheel Steering

      Chevrolet has revealed that the Silverado electric pickup will drive circles around the competition with the addition of Four-Wheel Steer and 24" rims.

    Four-Wheel Steer is a chassis feature that enables a vehicle to steer all four wheels, increasing agility and tight turning radius at low speeds. This brings improved handling and stability at higher speeds with outstanding trailering dynamics.

    The Silverado electric pickup is designed from scratch and it harnesses the best of the Ultium Platform and ingrained with the Silverado's proven capability. Fleet and retail versions of the electric Silverado will be offered with a variety of customer options. Customers can receive the latest updates on the electric Silverado at one of these two web sites:

    Chevrolet was founded in 1911 and is one of the worlds largest auto brands, available in 79 countries with more than 3.2 million cars and trucks sold in 2020.

    Chevrolet will be bringing to market the electric Silverado that will feature engaging performance, heart pounding designs, passive and active safety features along with easy to use technology at an outstanding value per their press release.

     

    GM Corporate Newsroom - United States - EV News

    Chevrolet Previews Available Four-Wheel Steer on Silverado Electric Pickup (gm.com)

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    These complex mechanical options usually are; honda’s late ‘80s 4WS option was $2900 in today’s dollars (and as tested, performed worse in wet conditions than 2WS).

    Edited by balthazar
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    17 hours ago, riviera74 said:

    Sounds like the successor to GMC's Quadrasteer from about 15 years ago.  Too bad it was priced too high for many buyers to get it.

    Agree that Quadrasteer was a very pricey option that GM offered, but unlike buying that part from a 3rd party company, this is built by GM and is clearly from the Hummer/Chevrolet and I expect it will show up on the GMC electric truck which will due to volume, reduce costs I think.

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    3 hours ago, David said:

    Agree that Quadrasteer was a very pricey option that GM offered, but unlike buying that part from a 3rd party company, this is built by GM and is clearly from the Hummer/Chevrolet and I expect it will show up on the GMC electric truck which will due to volume, reduce costs I think.

    I had no idea that Quadrasteer was a third-party add-on for the GMC Sierra.  Good thing that GM is building this in-house this time.

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    10 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

    I had no idea that Quadrasteer was a third-party add-on for the GMC Sierra.  Good thing that GM is building this in-house this time.

    I think he means it was built and sourced from a 3rd party but still assembled onto the trucks on their regular assembly lines. 

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    23 hours ago, balthazar said:

    Quadrasteer was developed in-house, by Delphi (owned by GM at the time).

    '3rd party' would be an independent vendor.

    Was Delphi owned at the creation point of Quadrasteer? I thought they were independent at that time that they offered it on GMC and Chevy trucks in 2002.

    Just searched and it says Deplhi was sold off from GM in 1999.

    Delphi Technologies - Wikipedia

    This story says GM offered Delphi built Quadrasteer in 2002.

    GM Brings Back Quadrasteer: Chevy Silverado EV Gets Four Wheel Steering | DrivingLine

    Did GM create it before 1999? Have not found anything and the Wiki page says 2002.

    Quadrasteer - Wikipedia

    @balthazar @riviera74 @ccap41

    UPDATE - Delphi created the $5,600 Quadrasteer and offered it to various Auto OEM's. GM was the only one to sign up to offer it on their trucks as it made these large trucks turn like a compact car.

    Interesting data on it here: GM Quadrasteer: The Great Invention No One Wanted (motorbiscuit.com)

    QUOTE: Quadrasteer was a steer-by-wire rear axle developed by Delphi Automotive. It electronically controlled the rear wheels to respond in different ways based on speed and loads. Two microprocessors controlled the axle. 

    I am honestly glad GM has built their own in-house solution for Hummer, GMC, Chevrolet for 4W-steering.

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    37 minutes ago, David said:

    Did GM create it before 1999? Have not found anything and the Wiki page says 2002.

    Obviously it wasn't developed in 2002 or 2001. 

    Wiki states it was 'developed by Delphi while under the ownership of GM'.
    There are 9 patent citations by GM or Delphi for Quadrasteer, starting back in 1988.
    Of those 9, 7 fall on or before 1999.
    Based on that, I think it's accurate to state it was developed under the 'GM roof'.

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    5 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    Obviously it wasn't developed in 2002 or 2001. 

    Wiki states it was 'developed by Delphi while under the ownership of GM'.
    There are 9 patent citations by GM or Delphi for Quadrasteer, starting back in 1988.
    Of those 9, 7 fall on or before 1999.
    Based on that, I think it's accurate to state it was developed under the 'GM roof'.

    My search did not turn that up so I appreciate you finding and sharing it with us. I did see that the version done in 2002 is considered QuadraSteer 2.0 based on earlier designs, but updated using better modern tech. That is good to see.

    Guess this could be where GM got their 4W steering for their BEVs.

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    GM has 4WS history going much farther back.
    I used to have a pic of a '68 Oldsmobile at the Proving Grounds with 4WS undergoing testing.

    I don't see it as being so exclusive that you would need to 'piggyback' it off earlier engineering.

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    8 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    GM has 4WS history going much farther back.
    I used to have a pic of a '68 Oldsmobile at the Proving Grounds with 4WS undergoing testing.

    I don't see it as being so exclusive that you would need to 'piggyback' it off earlier engineering.

    That is very cool, would love to see the pic of that Olds.

    I wonder if due to the decades that Honda and GM have tied up engineering work if that is where Honda got their 4WS that they sold on their cars? 🤔

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    Found the pic- it’s actually a ‘66 Buick Wildcat. IIRC it was from an article about GM innovations, but this is all I clipped from it; prolly been in my library 20 years or more.
     

    EB9C75B4-3C4A-4F4B-BC23-49E5F4355B28.jpeg

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    4 hours ago, balthazar said:

    Found the pic- it’s actually a ‘66 Buick Wildcat. IIRC it was from an article about GM innovations, but this is all I clipped from it; prolly been in my library 20 years or more.
     

    EB9C75B4-3C4A-4F4B-BC23-49E5F4355B28.jpeg

    Thank you, that is awesome, so cool to see technology truly being used over the long haul as electronics became better.

    I honestly felt GM needed to make 4WS standard on all their SUVs / Trucks when I test drove a GMC Truck with it. You really do not realize how nice it is till you drive a very large auto with 4WS and see how clean and tight turning and lane changes are.

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    On 8/11/2021 at 4:55 PM, balthazar said:

    These complex mechanical options usually are; honda’s late ‘80s 4WS option was $2900 in today’s dollars (and as tested, performed worse in wet conditions than 2WS).

    And was a nightamre to repair with the Hondas....

    On 8/13/2021 at 7:26 PM, balthazar said:

    Found the pic- it’s actually a ‘66 Buick Wildcat. IIRC it was from an article about GM innovations, but this is all I clipped from it; prolly been in my library 20 years or more.
     

    EB9C75B4-3C4A-4F4B-BC23-49E5F4355B28.jpeg

    I love GM styling from the 60's, I had a great aunt who had a similar car from the Era. She almost lived to 100, and drove the car until 1995. She nwas born in 1897...

    On 8/11/2021 at 6:57 PM, regfootball said:

    24' dubs on a work vehicle.   seems inefficient and hardly prudent for contributing to reduced carbon footprint.

    You have 24 Foot rather than 24 inch dubs....would be perfect for the everglades, and with wheels that big you wouldn't have to worry about the Battery packs getting submerged. 24" vs 24'....

    On 8/13/2021 at 2:54 PM, balthazar said:

    GM has 4WS history going much farther back.
    I used to have a pic of a '68 Oldsmobile at the Proving Grounds with 4WS undergoing testing.

    I don't see it as being so exclusive that you would need to 'piggyback' it off earlier engineering.

    Gm had a lot of great ideas back in the day...

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    Too bad a lot of those ideas were either not implemented (4WS for 30 years) or executed poorly (V8-6-4).  Nowadays GM might be looking to come back, but what GM product NOW would pull somebody out of a Toyota or Honda?

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    It's one thing to have an idea, it's another to determine if there's any demand/desire by consumers for it. I don't think anyone would've wanted 4WS in 1970... despite the enormity of many full-size cars at the time.

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    1 hour ago, balthazar said:

    It's one thing to have an idea, it's another to determine if there's any demand/desire by consumers for it. I don't think anyone would've wanted 4WS in 1970... despite the enormity of many full-size cars at the time.

    Full size cars 50 years ago were a lot smaller than the typical double or crew cab pickup today.  Silverados have 147-157 inch wheelbases.  About the only passenger car then the size of today’s trucks was maybe the Fleetwood 75 and other limos, not mainstream. 

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    3 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    Full size cars 50 years ago were a lot smaller than the typical double or crew cab pickup today.  Silverados have 147-157 inch wheelbases.  Big. 

    Until I looked it up, I was under the impression that a 1970 Impala was huge.  It is only 216 inches long on a 119 inch wheelbase.  Sounds almost like the size of today's MIDSIZE trucks now.

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    2 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

    Until I looked it up, I was under the impression that a 1970 Impala was huge.  It is only 216 inches long on a 119 inch wheelbase.  Sounds almost like the size of today's MIDSIZE trucks now.

    Yeah, the Impala was on the small side compared to the Buicks, Olds, and Caddies.   The full size pickup really is the modern 1970 full size sedan—BOF, V8, room for 6, huge trunk…

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    50 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    The full size pickup really is the modern 1970 full size sedan—BOF, V8, room for 6, huge trunk…

    Don't forget; excellent tow vehicles. 

    I just wish there were more 2-dr pickups, popularity-wise. I used to think I'd revert to a regular cab truck once I stop working, but after 15 years in a crew cab, I think that'll be harder than I think (slim pickings aside).

    You guys know I like large vehicles, and my GMC has a 157" wheelbase (you can also opt for the CC/8-ft bed @ 172" wheelbase!), but maybe I'm just used to piloting this class of vehicle; I have no issue other than a smidge of attention making hard right turns so I don't curb it. Have to pull a bit farther forward, and cut the wheel a lil sharper. But there's no instances of turning circle or lane changing that 4WS would come into play (tho it sounds like it would on those hard right turns). I'd pass on the option relative to the cost and how infrequent it'd come into play.
     

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    Ive never driven a double cab or crew cab, only regular cabs a few times over the years.  One place I think the long ones would be a handful would be in parking garages.  And impossible to parallel park because of the length.  
     

    I did drive my folks’ 33 foot Winnebago a few times 30 years ago, now that was an interesting experience.  Even with a 454, it was pretty slow….

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    I've stuffed my 2500HD CC in a parking garage a couple times- the issue is height, not length or maneuverability (at least at the hospital parking deck). Antenna tip scrapes on the lowest overhead beams.

    Not much parallel parking around me, but I've done that, too. Standard parking slips are generally short for a 237" long truck (the '04) - haven't had the '21 in either of those scenarios yet. Has to be 2 empty spots in a row to stuff it in. 

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    16 hours ago, riviera74 said:

    Too bad a lot of those ideas were either not implemented (4WS for 30 years) or executed poorly (V8-6-4).  Nowadays GM might be looking to come back, but what GM product NOW would pull somebody out of a Toyota or Honda?

    Modern Computerized technology is finally allowing ideas from the 70's to happen, but then with electric, ICE is on the end of that roadmap. The auto stop/start and the reduction of cylinders during cruising on the highway has proven it can now work the way it was envisioned. Will be interesting to see what other tech comes back.

    In regards to pulling customers from Toyota or Honda, NOTHING, Yup GM/Ford/Ram/Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep have NOTHING to pull existing customers that buy the cheap auto's from Toyota and Honda back. As such, I doubt they will ever come back until maybe under a BEV option they see something that is as cheap as a corolla that they like better.

    For those buying higher up in products, Yes, I do see conquest buyers just like how folks that bought Tesla 3 have moved on to a Ford Mach-e as a far better product.

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    13 hours ago, balthazar said:

    You guys know I like large vehicles, and my GMC has a 157" wheelbase (you can also opt for the CC/8-ft bed @ 172" wheelbase!), but maybe I'm just used to piloting this class of vehicle; I have no issue other than a smidge of attention making hard right turns so I don't curb it. Have to pull a bit farther forward, and cut the wheel a lil sharper. But there's no instances of turning circle or lane changing that 4WS would come into play (tho it sounds like it would on those hard right turns). I'd pass on the option relative to the cost and how infrequent it'd come into play.

    Based on the old Quadra steer, it seems it would come into play all the time just not on specific use cases.

    General Motors Quadrasteer Info | GM Authority

    What is Four Wheel Steering System | How it Works? (theengineerspost.com)

    So Turning is an expected benefit.

    image.png

    Depending on speed, the computer would adjust the wheels as follows for local to highway driving.

    image.png

    image.png

    Over all a good video on 4WS. I see it being more common and beneficial on BEVs as we move forward.

     

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    11 hours ago, David said:

    The auto stop/start and the reduction of cylinders during cruising on the highway has proven it can now work the way it was envisioned.

    Unaware of the issues with the current GM 5.3L and 6.2L engines with cylinder deactivation?
    If anything, it's proven that all the 'modern computerized tech' isn't making major strides forward at all. 

    - - - - -
    See, this is exactly the sort of thing that pisses me off. What the hell is this drunken over-correction nonsense? 

    Screen Shot 2021-08-19 at 9.22.41 PM.png

    It's a late-change scenario, right?

    I know EXACTLY what this nonsense is; over-dramatizing to make the 4WS plot line look like it's doing a LOT more / is a lot safer. But it's bullshit, as usual, and it automatically leans me against the proposal because they're overselling it, because they HAVE to, because it just. ain't. all. that... or they  could sell it on face value.
     

    Edited by balthazar
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    11 hours ago, balthazar said:

    I know EXACTLY what this nonsense is; over-dramatizing to make the 4WS plot line look like it's doing a LOT more / is a lot safer. But it's bull$h!, as usual, and it automatically leans me against the proposal because they're overselling it, because they HAVE to, because it just. ain't. all. that... or they  could sell it on face value.

    Exactly. All they need to do is sell the slow speed maneuverability of the vehicle and it'll sell accordingly. That is all that is needed from four wheel steering. 

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    16 hours ago, David said:

    Cool review of GM focus for this current Decade.

    General Motors to Outline Plans for Decade of Growth, Doubling of Annual Revenues by 2030 with Increased Margins (gm.com)

    Today also had an additional tease of the Chevrolet Silverado EV pickup truck. We will get to see this truck at the January CES 2022. Truck will have a fixed-glass roof for retail models.

    Chevrolet-Silverado-EV-Fixed-Glass-Roof.jpg

     

    Not sure why they would need the terrarium feature, maybe so the A/C runs more and depletes the battery faster?   Also helps push up the price. 

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    4 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

    Not sure why they would need the terrarium feature, maybe so the A/C runs more and depletes the battery faster?   Also helps push up the price. 

    Tech has made the ability to make those roofs solar panels as well as built in tinting, so it darkens. I think it is about giving an open air feel while still being safe inside.

    It is an interesting concept that Tesla Buyers seem to love and everyone else seems to be coping. I do wonder myself about it. I think it will be an option and is not for everyone.

    I myself being a cancer survivor of skin cancer also do not need that big sky glass roof option.

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    1 hour ago, David said:

    Tech has made the ability to make those roofs solar panels as well as built in tinting, so it darkens. I think it is about giving an open air feel while still being safe inside.

    It is an interesting concept that Tesla Buyers seem to love and everyone else seems to be coping. I do wonder myself about it. I think it will be an option and is not for everyone.

     

    It's also an EV thing... manufacturers seem to think an EV has to be different and offer fancy features you don't see on normal vehicles, like the stupid door handles on the Mach-E, etc. 

    I like panoramic sunroofs w/ an opening section and sliding shades, but don't see the point of a huge glass roof in a truck.   It's a truck, not a luxury car.

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    49 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    I like panoramic sunroofs w/ an opening section and sliding shades, but don't see the point of a huge glass roof in a truck.   It's a truck, not a luxury car.

    Maybe you didn't know but, there are luxury trucks now.

    Limited F150, High Country Silverado, Denali Sierra, Limited Ram 1500. 

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    1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

    Maybe you didn't know but, there are luxury trucks now.

    Limited F150, High Country Silverado, Denali Sierra, Limited Ram 1500. 

    Oh, I know... I don't care...not my niche.   I wonder if this is an option on the Silverado EV...making something like that standard is just an excuse to push up the price. 

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    1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

    It's also an EV thing... manufacturers seem to think an EV has to be different and offer fancy features you don't see on normal vehicles, like the stupid door handles on the Mach-E, etc. 

    I like panoramic sunroofs w/ an opening section and sliding shades, but don't see the point of a huge glass roof in a truck.   It's a truck, not a luxury car.

    I get the point, but then many trucks have entered Luxury level features and pricing. Crazy world we live in now.

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    1 minute ago, David said:

    I get the point, but then many trucks have entered Luxury level features and pricing. Crazy world we live in now.

    It's going to be interesting how the Silverado EV compares to the Ford F150 Lightning.... I assume it won't be strictly a $75-100k luxotruck...

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    21 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    Oh, I know... I don't care...not my niche.   I wonder if this is an option on the Silverado EV...making something like that standard is just an excuse to push up the price. 

    It's only standard on non-commercial version, which they've said they'll make a commercial/fleet truck and one for the rest of the public. 

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    5 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    It's only standard on non-commercial version, which they've said they'll make a commercial/fleet truck and one for the rest of the public. 

    I am thinking an LT retail version will not have it or at least it will be an Option.

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    2 hours ago, balthazar said:

    That’s probably a $5K piece of glass to replace.

    The topic was how panoramic glass roofs dont belong on pick-up trucks and how these could be expensive fixes if ever they get broken.

    Speedy Glass repair. Speedy Glass replace...   A catchy Canadian jingle  of a Canadian business that repairs or replaces windshields that are cracked.  

    There is something humorous about me posting that advertising.   Or maybe not.  

    They cant all be winners.  LOL

     

     

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    4 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

    The topic was how panoramic glass roofs dont belong on pick-up trucks and how these could be expensive fixes if ever they get broken.

    Speedy Glass repair. Speedy Glass replace...   A catchy Canadian jingle  of a Canadian business that repairs or replaces windshields that are cracked.  

    There is something humorous about me posting that advertising.   Or maybe not.  

    They cant all be winners.  LOL

     

     

    Imagine if shit from a Plane flying high over head leaks, freezes and breaks off and hit that. 

    Canada women woken up by 'frozen excrement from plane loo' crashing through roof | Daily Mail Online

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    11 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

    The topic was how panoramic glass roofs dont belong on pick-up trucks and how these could be expensive fixes if ever they get broken.

    Speedy Glass repair. Speedy Glass replace...   A catchy Canadian jingle  of a Canadian business that repairs or replaces windshields that are cracked.  

     

    A variation of the slogan of the biggest glass repair chainin the States...'Safelite repair, Safelite replace'...

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

    A variation of the slogan of the biggest glass repair chainin the States...'Safelite repair, Safelite replace'...

    HA! You read my mind. 

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    1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

    A variation of the slogan of the biggest glass repair chainin the States...'Safelite repair, Safelite replace'...

    That got me thinking.   Why would these two have the same jingle? 

    So I googled.

    It turns out that an even LARGER and OLDER windshield replace shop bought out Safelite in 2007.  Belron.  A United Kingdom headquartered company founded in Cape Town, South Africa in 1897. 

    And guess what?

    Speedy Glass was also acquired by Belron.   Lebeau being the Quebec version.  Belron operates in 32 countries acquiring  glass repair shops in those countries. 

    Safelite was founded in 1947 in Ohio

    Speedy Glass was founded in 1949 in Ontario I believe. 

    Lebeau Vitres D'Autos of Quebec was founded in 1947. 

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safelite

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belron

     

     

     

     

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    17 hours ago, riviera74 said:

    I would NOT recommend that super panoramic sunroof option.  Not enough structure or protection in case of a rollover accident.

    Maybe it's made of transparent vibranium.

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    • Good to hear because they are pretty awful for what you're getting. I'm sure they're all great overall vehicles between performance and available luxuries but they just look so bad. 
    • I think I saw that an exec at M-B was commenting about future M-B EVs have to look like M-B cars and not look like jelly beans.  I think they realize they went too far.  
    • There are some people who do speak like this.  There used to be a lot more of them!  Goofy little song.
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