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  • Drew Dowdell
    Drew Dowdell

    FCA and PSA are in Merger Talks

      ...It was only a matter of time till another suitor came along...

    According to a report in the Wall Street Journal, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles and PSA are in merger talks.  This after the failed merger negotiations last spring between FCA and Renault.   The merger is reportedly an all-share merger of equals with PSA CEO Carlos Tavares at the helm as CEO and FCA Chairman John Elkann retaining his position in the new company. 

    The "talks are fluid" and the paper reported that "no guarantee that any final agreement will be reached".

    FCA had previously turned down a merger offer from PSA back in March.  PSA is still digesting their acquisition of Opel from General Motors.

    Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)

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    They gotta merge with somebody, really in both their cases.  Either one of these companies isn’t sustainable as they are.

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    FCA needs to discontinue Chrysler model vehicles already, they're just hogging capital and plant space.

    Edited by USA-1
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    16 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

    FCA needs to discontinue Chrysler model vehicles already, they're just hogging capital and plant space.

    And what are fiat & alfa doing??

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    4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    And what are fiat & alfa doing??

    Good point, those two need to go too, Fiat for sure. I was just thinking the Domestic side of FCA with the next UAW strike looming. Although I do like the Alfa Ro Guilia Quadrifoglio always have since the new ones came out, neighbor has a bright blue one that looks pretty sweet and the exhaust note is pretty burly for a TTV6. I know they're pretty unreliable still, but it looks different and stands out from the crowd. AR's have a poor reliability image and are too overpriced to be successful.

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    Whack FIAT and Alfa Romeo first.  Then merge with Peugeot.  PSA will have to cut Opel down to size in order for the merger to actually work.

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    There is tremendous brand overlap that has to be solved with all these. But if you look at it from a standpoint of engines and transmissions, battery and electric motor, etc,  you really need like 3 four cylinder engines and a couple V6 that could get spread across 3 million units per year.  And probably 3-4 platforms that can underpin 30 different models and all you have to change is the styling.

    For sure need Ram, Jeep and Peugeot, and they need a luxury brand so Alfa or Maserati has to stay.  They don’t need 12 brands though probably 5-6 will do it.

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    Don't forget lancia- the brand sold 300K units in 1990, it's down to 48K in 2018, 80% of those sales in just Italy. FCA has allowed it to die on the vine. Kill Lancia; the money is better utilized at Chrysler.

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    10 hours ago, balthazar said:

    Don't forget lancia- the brand sold 300K units in 1990, it's down to 48K in 2018, 80% of those sales in just Italy. FCA has allowed it to die on the vine. Kill Lancia; the money is better utilized at Chrysler.

    Lancia is just a Chrysler 300 with a Thema badge on it. They only have the one model

    Edit: I told a lie. The Ypsilon is still in production. 

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    1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Lancia is just a Chrysler 300 with a Thema badge on it. They only have the one model

    Edit: I told a lie. The Ypsilon is still in production. 

    Really? Jeez, Daimler/Chrysler really got their money out of that Benz platform, old E Class right? Has to be well over 15 yrs. old by now.

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    48 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

    Really? Jeez, Daimler/Chrysler really got their money out of that Benz platform, old E Class right? Has to be well over 15 yrs. old by now.

    The LX platform is not an old E-class platform.  They used the rear suspension, the transmission, and some of the switch gear from the E-Class and that was it, and that was only in the first generation.  By the time the second generation rolled around, there was no Benz left except for the 5-speed automatic in the V8 models. 

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    3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    The LX platform is not an old E-class platform.  They used the rear suspension, the transmission, and some of the switch gear from the E-Class and that was it, and that was only in the first generation.  By the time the second generation rolled around, there was no Benz left except for the 5-speed automatic in the V8 models. 

    I don't closely follow Chrysler or MB like some of you on here, but I knew it had to do with at least parts sharing with the E Class in the beginning. Either way it's very long in the tooth and due to get the axe, but FCA is slowing letting it die like many of their models. 

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    1 minute ago, USA-1 said:

    I don't closely follow Chrysler or MB like some of you on here, but I knew it had to do with at least parts sharing with the E Class in the beginning. Either way it's very long in the tooth and due to get the axe, but FCA is slowing letting it die like many of their models. 

    All it needs is a visual and interior refresh and it would be fine to run another 4 or 5 years.  The powertrain and performance are plenty competitive. 

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    Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

    All it needs is a visual and interior refresh and it would be fine to run another 4 or 5 years.

    Even the latest LD platform is 9 years old, that's ancient in the automotive world! It needs more than just another minimal refresh like it's had since 2005. It has dinosaur hide for seats at this point! :D

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    Just now, USA-1 said:

    Even the latest LD platform is 9 years old, that's ancient in the automotive world! It needs more than just another minimal refresh like it's had since 2005. It has dinosaur hide for seats at this point! :D

    That's just it.... a new car built on an older car platform is still a new car... it doesn't need to be all new just for the sake of being new. The LX platform already can do things like lane monitoring and automatic cruise control... what else should it have that it doesn't have now? It gets competitive fuel economy, has competitive horsepower, they just need an interior refresh and they'd be good. 

    They're my favorite long distance cruiser when I'm renting a car. 

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    12 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    That's just it.... a new car built on an older car platform is still a new car... it doesn't need to be all new just for the sake of being new. The LX platform already can do things like lane monitoring and automatic cruise control... what else should it have that it doesn't have now? It gets competitive fuel economy, has competitive horsepower, they just need an interior refresh and they'd be good. 

    They're my favorite long distance cruiser when I'm renting a car. 

    I could tell you had a spot reserved for it in your heart :D

    It's not a bad looking car just so much of the same. I drove one with a "Hemi" back in 2009 just to see how they were. The dealer had installed aftermarket wheels on it so the suspension and brakes couldn't handle the extra unsprung weight, it drove like a tank and the 5 speed hunted for gears like crazy. 

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    The idea that a platform is too old after 5 or 7 or even 10 years, just because of that, seems ridiculous to me. 

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    Agreed.

    I think manufacturers need to work on heavier refreshes to make platforms last longer, their investments. 

    I can't imagine how much money could be saved/profited if they extended a platform for even one additional year after all fixed costs associated to R&D have been amortized. 

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    16 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

    I could tell you had a spot reserved for it in your heart :D

    It's not a bad looking car just so much of the same. I drove one with a "Hemi" back in 2009 just to see how they were. The dealer had installed aftermarket wheels on it so the suspension and brakes couldn't handle the extra unsprung weight, it drove like a tank and the 5 speed hunted for gears like crazy. 

    The 8-speed is substantially better. If you haven't driven one since 2009, that's probably why you feel the way you do about it. A 2019 300S is a great car.

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    Its not like platforms are weak, or lacking crash performance design, or ride poorly (platform is a strictly minor factor in that), or are still using decades-old suspension, or ANYTHING like that. And the other issue is that the SOP here is a ‘clean sheet’ redesign. All that says is the previous one they advertised & sold for years is garbage.

    We’re way past the need for completely new platforms for the same brand/ model.

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    25 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    The 8-speed is substantially better. If you haven't driven one since 2009, that's probably why you feel the way you do about it. A 2019 300S is a great car.

    Meh, they just don't do it for me bored with it's same basic look for 15 years. To each their own.

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    19 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    Its not like platforms are weak, or lacking crash performance design, or ride poorly (platform is a strictly minor factor in that), or are still using decades-old suspension, or ANYTHING like that. And the other issue is that the SOP here is a ‘clean sheet’ redesign. All that says is the previous one they advertised & sold for years is garbage.

    We’re way past the need for completely new platforms for the same brand/ model.


    When a midsize car weighs 4,380 lbs. like the 2019 300 it's time to replace or heavily update, that's a tank in today's standards. https://g.co/kgs/8Brhaj

    The fullsize 2019 CT6 weighs at most 4,470 lbs. in loaded AWD Blackwing V8 form. https://g.co/kgs/ifidiZ

    That's latest tech. to old tech. platform design.

     

     

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