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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    FCA CEO Still Thinks Electric Cars Are Not Viable

      Sergio is at it again!

    If there is one thing the Fiat Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne has been consistent on aside from changing his mind on a number of things is his dislike on electric vehicles.

    Speaking to reporters this week at the New York Stock Exchange, Marchionne said there isn't a viable economic model for electric cars.

    "We still don't have a viable economic model for delivering an electric car. As much as I like Elon Musk, and he's a good friend and actually he's done a phenomenal job of marketing Telsa, I remain unconvinced of a ... economic viability of the model that he's pitching," said Marchionne.

    Marchionne believes the costs for batteries and the various technologies need to come down to make them viable. Otherwise, automakers should focus on developing hybrid and plug-in hybrid powertrains. 

    "So how do we find a convergence of technology bringing prices of components down and allows us to price accordingly — or we need to navigate through this process in a combined way between combustion and electrification to yield at least a minimum of economic returns that allows for our continuity? The last thing you want is me to be successful selling cars for 24 months and then go bust. That's not a good story. Especially in a place like this which rewards economic success. Let's not sit here and design our own future in the tank. Let's try and do it properly. We will do all the right things. We are investing without making a lot of noise on electrification. We will combine it with combustion to yield the right level of CO2. But we're not betting the bank on going fully electric in the next decade. It won't happen," said Marchionne.

    Source: The Street

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    Why am I not surprised by the Emperor with NO Cloths!

    Sergio boy could not ever really manage anything right. He sure has not done that as CEO of FCA. 

    I wonder how sore his lips must be. :nono:

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    48 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

    Flunky. Going the way of the horse and buggy is the mind of one Sergio Marchionne. 

    So long as it has Italian leather on the seat of that buggy and they sell more than 7 of them in North America Sergio will be happy.

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    As much as I would like to make fun of Sergio's comments, he may have a point.  Battery-powered EVs are currently NOT CHEAP enough to make or scale at the moment.  If a battery-powered EV was as cheap as a traditional ICE-powered vehicle, then scale and pricing (let alone profit) would almost resolve themselves.  Right now, a lot of automakers are trying to crack that granite and FCA is not in that game.  Of course, given Sergio's intransigence, it may well be 2030 before an EV will be cheap enough for FCA to make such vehicles.  Then again, will FCA survive until 2030?  They are having a difficult time as it is right now.

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    He is right. BEV does not make sense yet for most. People are straddled with a cord and pay the premium for it. One day perhaps, but not today or in a few years

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    3 hours ago, Guest DetroitMuscle said:

    He is right. BEV does not make sense yet for most. People are straddled with a cord and pay the premium for it. One day perhaps, but not today or in a few years

    Every day, more and more find that changing habits does make sense and in the next 18 months we will see a the change gain speed.

    @riviera74 I agree with what you said and question if FCA will still be independent let alone have the name brands they have today in 2030.

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    This thread is not about the feasibility from the owner's standpoint; Sergio is talking about the economics of manufacturing/selling EVs. I'm no fan of him professionally, but on this point he is correct. From the only numbers I've seen, Chevy loses $9K on each Bolt, FCA loses $20K on each fiat 500 EV, and Tesla lost $750,000,000 last year. From the business model standpoint- as of right now, there is no money to be made.

    Unless respective governments want to court bailouts, the countries & states that are considering outright ICE bans would do well to make sure there are manufacturers around to build these cars and at least cover their costs (which would still be a case of no profits/ expansion/ future development).

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    1 hour ago, balthazar said:

    This thread is not about the feasibility from the owner's standpoint; Sergio is talking about the economics of manufacturing/selling EVs. I'm no fan of him professionally, but on this point he is correct. From the only numbers I've seen, Chevy loses $9K on each Bolt, FCA loses $20K on each fiat 500 EV, and Tesla lost $750,000,000 last year. From the business model standpoint- as of right now, there is no money to be made.

    Unless respective governments want to court bailouts, the countries & states that are considering outright ICE bans would do well to make sure there are manufacturers around to build these cars and at least cover their costs (which would still be a case of no profits/ expansion/ future development).

    Wasn't the ICE auto industry like this in the early 1900's?

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    ^ What- that early EV CO's were making money & ICE companies were not? No- in no way was that unilateral. There were thousands of companies that failed in the beginning (first 25 years) of the industry, I'm not aware that any 'belly-upped' solely tied to propulsion choice.

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    45 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    ^ What- that early EV CO's were making money & ICE companies were not? No- in no way was that unilateral. There were thousands of companies that failed in the beginning (first 25 years) of the industry, I'm not aware that any 'belly-upped' solely tied to propulsion choice.

    Agreed, neither EV or ICE made money as to why so many failed. But technology changes and old ideas become new and better.

    I agree that ICE is not over yet, but it's days are numbered as better ways to travel come about.

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    The OEMs that survived at least some notable period of time (the Depression scorched that industry along with every other one) did make money- my point was it was not related SOLELY to the powerplant.

    Look at Doble- built steams cars with AMAZING technology, lasted 1909 to 1931. Again- the Depression, which killed off a disproportionate number of fine marques.

    I'm not seeing much of a parallel from the early 20th century to the early 21st here other that the obvious switch from electric to IC. However, the significant contrast with that is; today's US market breakdown is like 94% IC and 6% EV... the early days were never close to that one-sided. Also- the vehicles were largely comparable in what they offered, how it performed & drove. An EV then wasn't any faster (or slower) than a low-end IC car. The 'change over' was relatively fluid & quick and was consumer-driven. Today the market is ridiculously one-sided and most EVs include range numbers that are less than enticing. Plus EVs have already taken longer time to achieve a tiny sliver of the market vs. than the the rise of ICs early on took.

    EVs will take off once they achieve 2 critical factors; they're priced competitively with IC competition and offer range numbers comparable to IC mile ranges, with charging stations at least 50% as common as gas stations. It's really only 2 things: range/ charging time/ charger commonality... and vehicle price. Everything else is comparable right now (other than EVs being a thin selection of vehicles so far).

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      Dimensions
      Wheelbase
      3,000 mm
      Length
      4,635 mm
      Width
      1,890 mm
      Height
      1,605 mm
      Cargo
      Boot/trunk space
      531 L / 1591 L (when second-row seats are fully folded)
      Front trunk
      North American (NA) model: 24 L (both AWD and 2WD)
      Non-NA model: 57 L (2WD) or 24 L (AWD)
      Performance
      Platform
      Electric-Global Modular Platform
      Maximum Driving Range
      (according to WLTP)
      470~480 km
      (When pairing 2WD with 72.6-kWh battery option)
       
      Long Range
      72.6-kWh Battery
      (77.4-kWh for NA)
      AWD
      Power
      225-kW (Front and Rear combined)
      Torque
      605-Nm (Front and Rear combined)
      0-100 km/h
      5.2 seconds
      2WD 
      Power
      160-kW Rear
      Torque
      350-Nm Rear
      0-100 km/h
      7.4 seconds
       
      Standard Range
      58-kWh Battery
      AWD
      Power
      173 kW (Front and Rear combined)
      Torque
      605 Nm (Front and Rear combined)
      0-100 km/h
      6.1 seconds
      2WD
      Power
      125 kW
      Torque
      350 Nm
      0-100 km/h
      8.5 seconds
      Features (Please see additional details section below table for more information)
      Supported Charging Infrastructure
      400 V and 800 V (No need for additional adapters)
      Ultra-fast Charging
      10 % to 80 % in 18 minutes of charge
      100 km of range (WLTP) in 5 minutes of charge
      Vehicle-to-Load
      Max. Output
      3.6 kW
      Port Locations
      Inside: Under second-row seats
      Outside: vehicle charging port
      Infotainment
      Screen
      12-inch, full-touch infotainment screen
      Hoodless 12-inch digital gauge cluster
      Bluelink® connected car services
      Remote Profile Management
      Remote Start Enhancements
      Vehicle Status Notifications
      POI Send to Car Now with Waypoints
      Maintenance Alert Enhancement
      Dynamic Voice Recognition
      Safety and Convenience Features
      Forward Collision-Avoidance Assist (FCA)
      Blind-Spot Collision-Avoidance Assist (BCA)
      Safe Exit Assist (SEA)
      Intelligent Speed Limit Assist (ISLA)
      Driver Attention Warning (DAW)
      High Beam Assist (HBA)
      Surround View Monitor (SVM)
      Rear Cross-Traffic Collision-Avoidance Assist (RCCA)
      Parking Collision-Avoidance Assist (PCA)
      Highway Driving Assist 2 (HDA 2)
      Remote Smart Parking Assist (RSPA)
      Available Colors
      Exterior: Gravity Gold Matte, Shooting-Star Gray Matte, Digital Teal-Green Pearl, Lucid Blue Pearl, Atlas White, Cyber Gray Metallic, Phantom Black Pearl, Galactic Gray Metallic (not available in NA region), Mystic Olive-Green Pearl (not available in NA region)
      Interior: Obsidian Black and Dark Pebble Gray/Dove Gray, Dark Teal/Dove Gray, and Terra Brown/Mud Gray (only available in Korea)
    • By David
      Many have heard of AI and they think Terminator. Yet AI in the computer industry has allowed us to build computers and accessories faster due to the ability of AI to sift through data faster than humans can. This brings us to how AI is helping the Auto industry transition to EV's and how battery tech will change much faster than in the last two decades.

      IBM has announced their recent battery project is developing prototypes of new faster charging batteries that are free of Nickel and Cobalt thanks to AI. It has allowed them to quickly evaluate a set of 20,000 potential compounds for use in the Battery electrolytes. This would normally take 5 years via traditional human research and yet was accomplished in nine days using AI.
      GM Ultium batteries and Panasonic batteries have reduced testing from three years to about six months. This is going from a large number of time consuming charging and discharging cycles to using AI to cover what would be done manually in three years to six months.

      Gbatteries has used AI to build faster and more reliable DC fast chargers. InoBat from Slovakian has stated that AI is helping them to boost battery density by 20% with the batteries being sold in 2023.
      VW has stated AI is helping them lay out a new roadmap of lite weight materials for auto's including their own batteries that are in development.
      Dyson has claimed that AI is how they have brought Solid State batteries to market now.
      AI is going to help usher in the next generation of not only Auto's but phones, computers, etc.  AI will touch just about every aspect of life for people.
      https://www.wsj.com/articles/electric-car-batteries-get-a-boost-from-artificial-intelligence-11604422792
      https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1130221_report-ai-will-dramatically-speed-up-battery-development-and-thus-ev-adoption
      https://na.panasonic.com/us/press-releases
    • By William Maley
      Future small cars from Fiat Chrysler Automobiles will not be using an updated version of their small car platform. Instead, they'll be underpinned by PSA Group's Common Modular Platform (CMP).
      Automotive News obtained a letter sent by FCA to suppliers in July stating "to immediately stop any research, development and tooling construction activities on future B-segment (small/subcompact) cars." These include the Fiat 500 and Jeep Renegade to give some context. The letter goes on to say it is moving to CMP and that vehicles based on this will be built at the company's Tychy, Poland plant - home to 500 and Lancia Yplilon production. 
      FCA had already put a stop, albeit a temporary one on developing parts for the five new small cars that were destined to use this platform due to COVID-19. There will be one model that will move forward on this orphaned platform - the upcoming 500 electric for Europe.
      As for CMP, this underpins the Peugeot 208 and 2008; Opel/Vauxhall Corsa, Mokka; and the DS3 Crossback. It allows for both combustion and electric powertrains.
      Moving to CMP is another step towards FCA and PSA Group's merger to become Stellantis. It is unclear whether or not the U.S. will see any of the new models that will use CMP from FCA's brands.
      Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      Future small cars from Fiat Chrysler Automobiles will not be using an updated version of their small car platform. Instead, they'll be underpinned by PSA Group's Common Modular Platform (CMP).
      Automotive News obtained a letter sent by FCA to suppliers in July stating "to immediately stop any research, development and tooling construction activities on future B-segment (small/subcompact) cars." These include the Fiat 500 and Jeep Renegade to give some context. The letter goes on to say it is moving to CMP and that vehicles based on this will be built at the company's Tychy, Poland plant - home to 500 and Lancia Yplilon production. 
      FCA had already put a stop, albeit a temporary one on developing parts for the five new small cars that were destined to use this platform due to COVID-19. There will be one model that will move forward on this orphaned platform - the upcoming 500 electric for Europe.
      As for CMP, this underpins the Peugeot 208 and 2008; Opel/Vauxhall Corsa, Mokka; and the DS3 Crossback. It allows for both combustion and electric powertrains.
      Moving to CMP is another step towards FCA and PSA Group's merger to become Stellantis. It is unclear whether or not the U.S. will see any of the new models that will use CMP from FCA's brands.
      Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)
  • Posts

    • And READ my post.   *On one hand you say and SUV like your friends Infiniti is perfectly fine for hauling stuff because all you need is a tarp and a vacuum.   *On the other hand you say that this cannot be done with a Suburban for a different set of reasons.   If you don't the issue I have here, then perhaps we need to move on from this because we are not going to see eye to eye here if you don't that issue.   Again, vehicles like the Hyundai Santa Cruz do have multiple uses for multiple types of people. You just happen to not be one of them but you were never interested to begin with. I, on the other hand, am very interested in it and that bed length is the LEAST of my worries.
    • For shit like that I'd hire a landscaper, who would haul such content in a dump truck or trailer. 
    • You going to hand-shovel a ton & a half of wet stone into the back of a Suburban, trying to tarp the carpeted bottom & plastic sides of the interior to keep it from getting torn apart? Really? Re-read my post- people don't put LOOSE material of any considerable volume in a vehicle like a Suburban. Is it physically possible? Sure - but does it happen? But a lawn mower or a potted shrub or a few bags of mulch- a roofed SUV could handle as well as a 4-ft bed trucklette. The overlap in cargo capability of a 4-ft bed and a mid-size SUV is a LOT more than between a Suburban and a full-size pickup.  
    • So while a tarp for your friends Infinite was okay, is not okay for a Suburban? That makes zero sense and that is the double talk I was talking about here. What you just said about the Suburban can be applied to the Infiniti and it actually makes a case for the Hyundai in the process. Again, being hung up on the bed size caused this. 
    • Everything else (and a buttload of excuses by you) aside, I do find it amusing how you think bags of mulch don’t gets holes in them and leak everywhere like they tend to do. Quite frankly you have tried to play it both ways by touting Full size trucks on one hand while trying to say that SUVs are better suited for light work (they are not in this case) than the Santa Cruz while ignoring the fact that the SUV argument applies to full size trucks. This all started because of your “problem” with bed size which, quite honestly, seems to be your problem and your problem alone here but not everyone sees it as a problem and the positives have been pointed out in spades.     And I live in NC and have ZERO use for a snow blower. Thanks for playing though Balth but please don’t try and act like gas spillage inside a vehicle isn’t a issue (it is). Whether someone goes electric or not is 100% irrelevant and you are deflecting with that statement. And again, all of those efforts your Infiniti boy makes to accommodate loads in his SUV could by 99.9% mitigated and simplified by just having a small bed with which to carry those things without the follow up cleaning and tarp shaking lol. Seriously, stop trying to equate your needs with others here (or dropping your “friend” as an example that actually supported the need for something like the Hyundai).
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