Jump to content
Create New...
  • G. David Felt
    G. David Felt

    "Shock and Awe" GMC Electric Lineup

      GMC has today released their first glimpse of the GMC Sierra Electric Truck to join the GMC Hummer truck and SUV electric auto's.

    GMC has given us a peak of the upcoming electric Sierra pickup truck which will launch only in a Denali Trim and being the third all-electric auto in the GMC Portfolio.

    According to GMC Vice President Duncan Aldred, the Denali Trim line holds tremendous equity for GMC and their customers being one of the most popular trims sold. To quote the VP: “We now have an opportunity to evolve Sierra’s capabilities and technologies, as afforded by transitioning to an all-electric propulsion while also elevating the luxurious design and comfort associated with Denali.”

    The electric Sierra will be purposefully built on the Ultium Platform with premium materials and capabilities that GMC Customers have come to expect.

    This truck will have a full reveal next year in 2022 and be assembled at the Factory ZERO Assembly Plant in Detroit and Hamtramck, Michigan.

    GMC Expands EV Lineup, Offers 1st Look at Electric Sierra Denali

    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments

    9 hours ago, balthazar said:

    Looks (what we can see so far) MUCH better than the Lightning - and it still strongly says 'GMC'. 

    It will be interesting to see the pickups when revealed.

    Agree, I am liking what I see on the GMC Sierra EV. 

    Based on GM's corporate web site and there, GMC/Chevrolet social media pages, the CES or Consumer Electric Show in January we will see these trucks unveiled.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    5 hours ago, riviera74 said:

    Can these EV trucks survive a Detroit or Minneapolis winter with little or no loss in performance and battery life?  That is the question!

     

    What question?

    Tesla and Norway has answered that riddle a loooong time ago...

    I think its time to move on from that angle...   

     

     

     

    • Agree 2
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    That might be formidable to tabulate on numerous fronts. Do you happen to speak Norwegian?

    I assume Tesla, the company, has done cold weather testing / data collection.

    Would be interesting to read their findings.

    • Like 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    13 hours ago, riviera74 said:

    Can these EV trucks survive a Detroit or Minneapolis winter with little or no loss in performance and battery life?  That is the question!

    Considering GM has been building and selling trucks in cold climates for over 100 years, I'm sure they have done their homework and developed these products to perform under a variety of conditions.  This is a large car company, not some tiny startup...

    Edited by Robert Hall
    • Like 1
    • Agree 2
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Yes.  

    Considering it IS General Motors and the amount of time GM has taken to release their Ultium tech EV vehicles to the public, Im sure the right engineering has gone into them to make sure uneasy and queazy Americans about EVs wont be disappoint... 

    Kinda like Supercruise.

    It took, what it was like, GM forever to introduce a smart cruise control system of the likes of Mercedes and Tesla and all others.  But when Cadillac unleashed it to the world...  Man-oh MAN was it gooooood! 

    Have you noticed that GM, other than the Bolts, GM has NO OTHER EVs to sell?  And GM has been promising us Ultium for 2-3 years now?  Let me remind you that the Bolt is last gen Battery tech...   

    Let me ALSO remind you that the Bolt does NOT lose THAT much battery life in cold cold weather.  No need to speak Norwegian to actually see what THAT data tells us about either the Bolt OR Tesla.... as both have been sold in Canada and in the US and some of these ENGLISH speaking folk have announced it on their Youtube videos have dealt with it more or less with no real pain...

    There is no need to go all 'Fox News covering the Jan. 6 riots' or CNBC Chevy pick-up truck explosion' on this matter...  

    Ill repeat, Norwegians dont seem too disturbed from their daily lives by the battery life loss in cold weather. Maybe we as uneasy, queazy Americans and Canadians shoudnt make a mountain out of a mole hill...

    It makes us look weak and stupid to the rest of the world...

     

    • Agree 2
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    16 hours ago, riviera74 said:

    Can these EV trucks survive a Detroit or Minneapolis winter with little or no loss in performance and battery life?  That is the question!

    Gasoline and diesel lose range in winter months as well, just say'n. 

    • Agree 2
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    9 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

    How about we ask Norwegians and how they cope with it.

    After all, they have voted EVs in with their money and not their mouths...

     

    I mean, with government incentives. They didn't just decide to pay full price for electric vehicles because they like them. They get additional benefits like access to bus-only lanes, and free municipal parking, 50% ferry/toll fees, you can look at the rest below.

    The Norwegian EV incentives:

    • No purchase/import taxes (1990-)
    • Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase (2001-)
    • No annual road tax (1996-2021). Reduced tax from 2021.
    • No charges on toll roads or ferries (1997- 2017).
    • Maximum 50% of the total amount on ferry fares for electric vehicles (2018-)
    • Maximum 50% of the total amount on toll roads (2019)
    • Free municipal parking (1999- 2017)
    • Parking fee for EVs was introduced locally with an upper limit of a maximum 50% of the full price (2018-)
    • Access to bus lanes (2005-).
    • New rules allow local authorities to limit the access to only include EVs that carry one or more passengers (2016)
    • 50 % reduced company car tax (2000-2018).
    • Company car tax reduction reduced to 40% (2018-)
    • Exemption from 25% VAT on leasing (2015)
    • Fiscal compensation for the scrapping of fossil vans when converting to a zero-emission van (2018)

    https://elbil.no/english/norwegian-ev-policy/

    • Thanks 2
    • Agree 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

    Gasoline and diesel lose range in winter months as well, just say'n. 

    Albeit not as much.  

    With my rant, I dont want to make it seem that there is no SIGNIFANT battery life. Because there is.  With my rant, I dont want us to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

    If we are honest about this EV thing, there is plenty from the tech that is way way waaaaaaaay behind what we are used to with the internal combustion engine. 

    But that is the thing. 

    Are we expecting EV tech to be on par with tech that we have been using, improving and honing in on for the last 120 some odd years?

    of COURSE there HAS to be some compromises to be made with a switch to EVs. 

    I get it, some of us do not WANT to make these compromises.

    Fair enough.    But lets be honest about THAT then. There is no need to false news it...

    But then again, we have come to a point where humans have no CHOICE but TO change their ways regarding pollution.  

    Is battery tech all that superior to gasoline tech in regards to pollution? 

    Some say yes. Some say no.  And somewhere in between those two factions the truth resides...   

     

    • Like 2
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    I mean, with government incentives. They didn't just decide to pay full price for electric vehicles because they like them. They get additional benefits like access to bus-only lanes, and free municipal parking, 50% ferry/toll fees, you can look at the rest below.

    The Norwegian EV incentives:

    • No purchase/import taxes (1990-)
    • Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase (2001-)
    • No annual road tax (1996-2021). Reduced tax from 2021.
    • No charges on toll roads or ferries (1997- 2017).
    • Maximum 50% of the total amount on ferry fares for electric vehicles (2018-)
    • Maximum 50% of the total amount on toll roads (2019)
    • Free municipal parking (1999- 2017)
    • Parking fee for EVs was introduced locally with an upper limit of a maximum 50% of the full price (2018-)
    • Access to bus lanes (2005-).
    • New rules allow local authorities to limit the access to only include EVs that carry one or more passengers (2016)
    • 50 % reduced company car tax (2000-2018).
    • Company car tax reduction reduced to 40% (2018-)
    • Exemption from 25% VAT on leasing (2015)
    • Fiscal compensation for the scrapping of fossil vans when converting to a zero-emission van (2018)

    https://elbil.no/english/norwegian-ev-policy/

     

    Yes!

    And that is going to happen here (North America) too.   

    Like I said above.   Its time for humans to change their ways in consuming certain items...    And even if we dont agree on that statement regarding climate change...

    The Hemi is going away because Dodge pays huge compliance fines. And ultimately, the emissions regulations WORLD WIDE regarding ICE will end up killing off 3 and 4 cylinder cars WORLD WIDE before this decade is up...

    World wide INCLUDES the US and Canada.

     

       

    • Agree 2
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I’m not reading anyone here ‘making a mountain out of a molehill’; merely asking to see data on extreme cold weather BE degradation. 

    It’s a valid question.

    And there’s nothing wrong in asking it.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I believe last year when I looked this information up, it was roughly a 30% loss of range. Obviously each vehicle's heating/cooling of the batteries will change the drop in range and everybody has different solutions to maintaining their batteries. 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Cost is what is going to matter not battery degradation.  Most people aren't driving more than 50 miles a day, I think range and battery degradation are highly over rated, and probably that narrative was started by car companies wanting to sell gas cars and not really form consumers.

    The question is what can be done with cost, Since they are starting with the Denali, I would guess this is another $100k or close to it pickup truck, maybe it's $75k like a Rivian.  But the Hummer is over $100k, the Lucid is $149k.  The real winner of EV future is who can make a mid-size sedan or SUV that electric for Rav4 or Camry money.  Who can make an EV pickup that costs as much as an F150 XLT, where the main build of sales are.    This is where it could be Tesla, and if so, all these other guys are in big trouble.  

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    45 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    I think range and battery degradation are highly over rated, and probably that narrative was started by car companies wanting to sell gas cars and not really form consumers.

    I think it most started because range wasn't 250-500 miles like it is now. Losing 30% range in something that only gets 70-150 miles of range in good conditions, is pretty crappy to only get 50-100 miles of range in poor conditions. I know it isn't often but surpassing 100 miles in a day of a lot of running around isn't unheard of. I wouldn't have been able to pick up my wife's G55 from the dealership Saturday in cold conditions if I had less than 100 miles of range. It's 60 miles in each direction. Had I had a Mercedes Benz B Class Electric (84 miles of range), it would be a two charge trip. Just say'n, I think that's why this is a major topic still. 

    52 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    the Lucid is $149k

    We've been over this, it starts at 75k, just like a Model S. 

    • Agree 2
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    7 hours ago, balthazar said:

    I’m not reading anyone here ‘making a mountain out of a molehill’; merely asking to see data on extreme cold weather BE degradation. 

    It’s a valid question.

    And there’s nothing wrong in asking it.

    I agree, good question to ask, seems you can find plenty of cold weather results on the Chevrolet Bolt and yet all these stories talk about how great the Tesla Alaska testing site it, but still no real data.

    An exclusive look at Tesla's extreme cold testing facility - Roadshow (cnet.com)

    Tesla's Winter Testing Facility In Alaska Is Pretty Incredible (insideevs.com)

    Interesting that even on Tesla own forum owners admit that they want to see but have found no info on Tesla 3 cold weather battery degradation.

    Cold weather testing — Tesla Forums

    Interesting that another Tesla Forum also has the same results of no info on any of Tesla products even though they have their winter testing ground. They do mention Bolt data and how good the Bolt is at minimal battery degradation in extreme cold.

    Cold weather testing? | Tesla Motors Club

    This is probably one of the best news stories on Tesla and how it matches up to the Bolt. Tesla in -36c Saskatchewan Canada takes 10 min to heat up before it lets you drive it. Chevrolet Bolt heats up in seconds and due to the battery tech that manages the battery pack, even in the extreme cold you can get in and drive right away. WIN GM.

    Teslas & Other EVs In Extreme Cold (-36°C) - CleanTechnica

    Tesla Support has plenty of cold weather tips and they state to use their software app to make sure the auto is ready for you 10 minutes before you leave by having it do the cold weather start up process. This makes me even more want to take a GM EV over a Tesla.

    Winter Driving Tips | Tesla

    Interesting that RIVIAN has learned from GM as they manage the heating of the battery pack in extreme cold to keep it ready to use instantly rather than a 10 min preheat like Tesla. Rivian testing is done near the north pole in -40C in Canada.

    Rivian tests R1T electric pickup in sub-zero temperatures - Electrek

    This tends to make me think GM and Ford will have far superior EVs in Cold Climates over Tesla.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    7 hours ago, ccap41 said:

    I think it most started because range wasn't 250-500 miles like it is now. Losing 30% range in something that only gets 70-150 miles of range in good conditions, is pretty crappy to only get 50-100 miles of range in poor conditions. I know it isn't often but surpassing 100 miles in a day of a lot of running around isn't unheard of. I wouldn't have been able to pick up my wife's G55 from the dealership Saturday in cold conditions if I had less than 100 miles of range. It's 60 miles in each direction. Had I had a Mercedes Benz B Class Electric (84 miles of range), it would be a two charge trip. Just say'n, I think that's why this is a major topic still. 

    We've been over this, it starts at 75k, just like a Model S. 

    The Cheapest Lucid Air (Pure), which you can reserve now, but it isn't in production until spring 2022, is $84,900 base price before tax credits.   A Mercedes-AMG E53 which is the same size, has similar performance and a better interior is $75,000 base price.  A Lexus LS which is a larger, more luxurious car than the Air Pure starts at $76,000.   The Air has hype because the top end version has over 1,000 hp, but the middle trim has to go against E63's and M5's, the Taycan and Panamera, the lower trim against established German sedans and Lexus and this isn't a big segment.  Infiniti, Cadillac, Lincoln, and Acura have all got out of mid-large luxury sedans, and Lexus killed the GS because there is no growth in this segment.  

    The 2022 Model S starts at $94,990, and if you order today, you get it July of 2022 (estimated).   That car is super fast, but it has a pretty mediocre interior.  BMW, Audi and Mercedes can all undercut that price with the EQE, A6 E-Tron, and i5-series EV thing and have a better interior, better car. 

    The market will flood with EV's, but these near $100k cars are such a tiny part of the market, no one is really even attempting a volume EV, outside of maybe Tesla with the 3/Y, but even those the global volume on that is a fraction of what a Rav4 or CR-V does globally.

    • Disagree 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    23 hours ago, balthazar said:

    I’m not reading anyone here ‘making a mountain out of a molehill’; merely asking to see data on extreme cold weather BE degradation. 

    It’s a valid question.

    And there’s nothing wrong in asking it.

     

    I am Greek, therefore a little melodrama here and there is the norm from where I come from. Either from starting it myself, or actually noticing it and calling it out.  Even if its a small tiny amount of melodrama, I sees it.  Im accustomed to seeing it.  Its in my Greek DNA.    Italian and Hebrew peoples are also masters of melodrama in sniffing it out and creating it.   :)      Call it a gift?  (For creating it and seeing it)  Anyway.  

    A question was asked about if the technology is up to snuff to withstand harsh Michigan winters.  And it was asked in a way to undermine GM's ability to engineer things and at the same time,  it was asked in way to undermine the technology itself. 

    Nothing wrong it asking about it. But everything wrong about being skeptical about it when Teslas have been in use in harsh weathers since close to a decade now.

    And the answers that were posted by CCAP, Robert and myself have addressed the issue.   

    When a Model S had a range of 200 some odd miles with the 60 KW/H battery, and when Nissan Leafs and Chevy Bolts had 100 some odd mile ranges, 5-6 years ago, then yeah, it was an issue.  The norm now is 300 mile range.  Even at 50% battery loss life with harsh cold weather and the heater is on full blast and because its NOT uncommon to HAVE a 50% battery loss regardless what EV we are talking about, 150 mile range on a REGULAR daily driven commute does NOT pose a problem any more.  If one wants to do other things and drive to different places on TOP of their regular daily driven routine, then at even 150 mile range, we WILL have a problem.  The thing is,  I live in an area where the climate gets harshly cold very very often every winter. But I drive gasoline powered cars. For now. The thing is though, even with a FULL TANK OF GAS, I DO NOT DRIVE HERE AND THERE AND EVERYWHERE WHEN ITS HARSHLY COLD OR SNOW STORMY OUTSIDE...  Or at least I try not to...

    So we could throw all kinds of imaginary problems to our skeptical criticism of a technology that we may not welcome in our lives, we should try to be less melodramatic with our questions surrounding our unfounded problems with the tech.

    Like I said, no need to create a mountain out of a molehill.  (I saw that its one word and not two. LOL)   Because I saw through the melodramatic style of asking the question if General Motors could release an EV pick-up truck ready for the vigors of a harsh Michigan winter...   

     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    If the argument will delve into: "But I NEED to drive those miles..."  

    Then if THAT is the case, EVs are NOT the type of vehicle that addresses that persons needs. So moot point about cold battery life loss...   However, the technology is advancing by leaps and bounds.   The more expensive EVs are already in the 400 mile range and the Lucid Air is said (not proven yet)to have a 500 mile range.   And the newer battery tech such as Ultium, is said to reduce battery loss due to cold.   By the time ICE becomes really dead, these cold issues will have been eliminated.. 

     

    • Agree 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    29 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    Chevy Bolts had 100 some odd mile ranges, 5-6 years ago

    Bolt came out in 2017 with a 238 mile range. It's currently 259.

    ccap's posted chart is very good info (if the results of real-world independent results, not OEM-sourced).
    hyundai, vw, bmw, Chevy & Ford see some significant loss, but Teslas apparently do not. 

    I have good faith in GM, but the Ultium system is brand new to production- and you know you should never buy the first year of a new major system. ?

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    On 12/18/2021 at 12:15 PM, balthazar said:

    Bolt came out in 2017 with a 238 mile range. It's currently 259.

    ccap's posted chart is very good info (if the results of real-world independent results, not OEM-sourced).
    hyundai, vw, bmw, Chevy & Ford see some significant loss, but Teslas apparently do not. 

    I have good faith in GM, but the Ultium system is brand new to production- and you know you should never buy the first year of a new major system. ?

    One of the key factors in maintaining battery performance is whether the car comes equipped with a heat pump and battery warmer or not.  The heat pump scavenges waste heat from additional sources to warm the cabin.  The battery warmer is like a block heater, but for batteries. On some EVs (mostly the cheaper ones) it is an option or not even available. I'm fairly certain it is standard with the Teslas. Li-Io batteries don't do well at lower temperatures and using their own electricity to warm them up helps to provide additional range.   I would bet all the candy in my stocking that the EVs above that have the largest performance degradation in cold weather do not have heat pumps while the ones that do have one. 

    And just like a block heater, an EV heatpump isn't needed in Texas or Florida, so it makes sense that the less expensive EVs make it optional when it is available. Hyundai makes it part of a very extensive $3,500 convenience package.  Kia makes it available on a $1,100 Cold-Weather package that also includes a heated steering wheel.

    Looking at that chart, it seems the combination of a heat pump and battery warming is the key combination to range much like Direct Injection + Turbo charging made a huge difference.  The Bolt has battery warming, but it only operates between 30% and 90% charge, it does not have a heat pump, is uses the equivalent of a large hair dryer to warm the cabin. The Teslas have all had improvements to their battery temperature management over the years, the older ones saw large range drops in cold weather.  However, you'll notice the Model Y actually has a slight improvement in range in cold weather... it was the first Tesla to come with a heat pump. The Model 3 did get it starting with the 2021 model year, but with the way Tesla does model years, not every 2021 Model 3 may have one.  So, since the chart doesn't specify the model year tested, the results shown for the Model 3 are likely 2020 or older. 

    So if you're shopping for an EV and live in a colder climate, you want an EV with both a good battery warmer and a heat pump to get the most range. 

    Also, keeping the car plugged in overnight will keep the battery nice and warm for when you leave in the morning. 

    • Like 1
    • Agree 3
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    On 12/17/2021 at 8:27 PM, smk4565 said:

    The Cheapest Lucid Air (Pure), which you can reserve now, but it isn't in production until spring 2022, is $84,900 base price before tax credits.   A Mercedes-AMG E53 which is the same size, has similar performance and a better interior is $75,000 base price.  A Lexus LS which is a larger, more luxurious car than the Air Pure starts at $76,000.

    I'm sure you read the comparison between the Air and EQGarbage and the praise on how well Lucid packaged the Air's interior saying it was as spacious as the S Class/EQS. 

    I'm sure you can figure out which is which based on the below measurements/capacities. 

    82308403_Interiorspace.JPG.c8eff31ab6657f7b2031a60e447ad2bb.JPG

    I'm positive you didn't even do your own research here so I'll show you.

     

    Lucid.thumb.JPG.6b89de480209cdc03bdb0a0974bd01b0.JPGLucid2.JPG.2722bc8537362fc7fd50729456c6e06f.JPG

    • Thanks 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    On 12/17/2021 at 9:27 PM, smk4565 said:

    A Mercedes-AMG E53 which is the same size, has similar performance and a better interior is $75,000 base price.

    Taking the “comparing apples to gas powered oranges” to a whole other level I see? Face it. The EQS is a huge let down and you’ve have been pedaling endless excuses for it by pointing out the perceived (and easily debunked) flaws of everyone else. Classic deflection. 

    • Agree 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    16 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

    Taking the “comparing apples to gas powered oranges” to a whole other level I see? Face it. The EQS is a huge let down and you’ve have been pedaling endless excuses for it by pointing out the perceived (and easily debunked) flaws of everyone else. Classic deflection. 

    Has Mercedes made an EV worth a damn yet? I mean, the EQS isn't a bad vehicle, it just looks like complete crap. Why somebody would consciously choose a vehicle that looks as jellybean as that vehicle is beyond me.  

    • Agree 2
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

    Has Mercedes made an EV worth a damn yet? I mean, the EQS isn't a bad vehicle, it just looks like complete crap. Why somebody would consciously choose a vehicle that looks as jellybean as that vehicle is beyond me.  

    Exactly. All the effort they put into the interior design should have been dedicated to that low rent looking exterior and maybe add a frunk while you’re at it. That is not the “best or nothing”. 

    Edited by surreal1272
    • Agree 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    4 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

    Exactly. All the effort they put into the interior design should have been dedicated to that low rent looking exterior and maybe add a drunk while you’re at it. That is not the “best or nothing”. 

    Absolutely, isn't one of the biggest perks of going EV to save quite a bit of space which can (should) be used as a frunk? Or, at least repurpose the hood/frunk area for something else. An EV without a frunk just doesn't make sense to me, unless the vehicle is pretty small. That's where I give the Bolt a pass (and other compact vehicles). It's a small enough vehicle that packaging still dictates that space is needed for powertrain components. 

    If freakin' FORD can make a frunk on a Mach-E, then Mercedes should be able to make a frunk on an S Class-sized vehicle. 

    • Agree 3
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    On 12/21/2021 at 11:15 AM, ccap41 said:

    Absolutely, isn't one of the biggest perks of going EV to save quite a bit of space which can (should) be used as a frunk? Or, at least repurpose the hood/frunk area for something else. An EV without a frunk just doesn't make sense to me, unless the vehicle is pretty small. That's where I give the Bolt a pass (and other compact vehicles). It's a small enough vehicle that packaging still dictates that space is needed for powertrain components. 

    If freakin' FORD can make a frunk on a Mach-E, then Mercedes should be able to make a frunk on an S Class-sized vehicle. 

    The EQS has a HEPA filter in the front.  The EQS has hospital operating room quality air on the inside, which other cars do not.

    • Haha 3
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    On 12/21/2021 at 9:41 AM, ccap41 said:

    I'm sure you read the comparison between the Air and EQGarbage and the praise on how well Lucid packaged the Air's interior saying it was as spacious as the S Class/EQS. 

    I'm sure you can figure out which is which based on the below measurements/capacities. 

    82308403_Interiorspace.JPG.c8eff31ab6657f7b2031a60e447ad2bb.JPG

    I'm positive you didn't even do your own research here so I'll show you.

     

    Lucid.thumb.JPG.6b89de480209cdc03bdb0a0974bd01b0.JPGLucid2.JPG.2722bc8537362fc7fd50729456c6e06f.JPG

    I actually thought their $77,400 was after tax credit, because Tesla advertises car prices like that, they give you the after tax credit price, which you may not even qualify for.  And let's see if they actually build that car or if next year the base Air is delayed, then all of a sudden the 2023 model is $84k base.  Much like the $35k Model 3 that never happened.  

    The Air does a lot of impressive things, but the interior is not on Mercedes level.  The EQS is an ugly car, but I don't think the Air is that good looking either.  If it said Camry on the front, no one would question it.  Also the Mercedes EQE is the same size as the Air, so we'll see how that price comparison goes.  

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    The EQS has a HEPA filter in the front.  The EQS has hospital operating room quality air on the inside, which other cars do not.

    Literally nobody gives a fck about this. 

    Also, this doesn't take up anywhere near the entire frunk area. 

    HEPA Filter.JPG

    • Agree 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    The EQS has hospital operating room quality air on the inside

    Once you open the door or window and...POOF!  There goes the hospital operating room quality air on the inside...

    • Thanks 1
    • Agree 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    I actually thought their $77,400 was after tax credit, because Tesla advertises car prices like that, they give you the after tax credit price, which you may not even qualify for.  And let's see if they actually build that car or if next year the base Air is delayed, then all of a sudden the 2023 model is $84k base.  Much like the $35k Model 3 that never happened.  

    The Air does a lot of impressive things, but the interior is not on Mercedes level.  The EQS is an ugly car, but I don't think the Air is that good looking either.  If it said Camry on the front, no one would question it.  Also the Mercedes EQE is the same size as the Air, so we'll see how that price comparison goes.  

    So it's actually about $5,000 cheaper than a Model S. Well, I guess Tesla's cheapest Model S currently has a purchase price of $94,990 so more like $17,000 cheaper. It looks like there is no 2WD Model S anymore, or at least for the time-being. 

    29 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    Once you open the door or window and...POOF!  There goes the hospital operating room quality air on the inside...

    Can you imagine rolling around with the windows down or the sunroof open?!? 

    THEY'D BE CLEANING THE AIR FOR EVERYBODY!!! 

    • Haha 2
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    16 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    Can you imagine rolling around with the windows down or the sunroof open?!? 

    THEY'D BE CLEANING THE AIR FOR EVERYBODY!!! 

     I got the visual!!!

     Imagine trying to clean out the outside air of a city's downtown core?  How long would a HEPA filter last by cleaning out the air for everybody?   

    What about the surfaces?    The air might be clean but are the surfaces clean as well?  Does a HEPA air filter system clean the surfaces.  Surely no bacteria lives on surfaces that we touch in our cars. The dashboard, the steering wheel, the seats we sit our asses on...

    So much wrong with a marketing campaign focusing on a HEPA air filter system in a damned car. A car???!!! Perhaps one of THE most dirtiest things we touch on a daily basis due to the fact that we dont wash our hands nearly half as much as we should, even during COVID times, eating and having crumbs and coffee spill and sauce from Big Macs fall, or slush during winter,  driving around in cities where smog exists and a car is not hermetically sealed. Like not even 1% hermetically sealed...  

    Leave it to the Mercedes fanboi to toot toot toot such a useless marketing bullshyting campaign... 

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
    • Agree 3
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites



    Join the conversation

    You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
    Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

    Guest
    Add a comment...

    ×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

      Only 75 emoji are allowed.

    ×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

    ×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

    ×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • google-news-icon.png



  • google-news-icon.png

  • Subscribe to Cheers & Gears

    Cheers and Gears Logo

    Since 2001 we've brought you real content and honest opinions, not AI-generated stuff with no feeling or opinions influenced by the manufacturers.

    Please consider subscribing. Subscriptions can be as little as $1.75 a month, and a paid subscription drops most ads.*
     

    You can view subscription options here.

    *a very limited number of ads contain special coupon deals for our members and will show

  • Community Hive Community Hive

    Community Hive allows you to follow your favorite communities all in one place.

    Follow on Community Hive
  • Posts

    • The grand plan was a separate new service to the house of 200 amps so that the garage would have plenty of power for charging multiple EVs and I would have a separate bill each cycle for knowing what I was spending for EV driving. Waking up in the morning to a full charge of power and never having to stop at a gas station due to having a Level 2, 240-volt home charger is a luxury everyone should have allowing you to smile as you drive by a gas station with folks outside dealing with their fueling. The ultimate perk of EV ownership.  I started with reaching out to my local utility and inquiring of the process for a new service. My local utility was more than accommodating in helping me out with the details. As an engineer that loves to learn, this process was very eye opening into the costs, lack of efficiencies by agencies and electrical contractors with a surprising ending to my eventual solution. Let's start off by making one thing clear, every state has their own regulations in regard to electrical. While the USA follows the national electrical code as a starting point, each state, county and city then adds their own additions or subtractions to the code. Always make sure to follow your local code no matter if you hire a company, independent contractor or are a DIY (Do it Yourself) type of person. Full information on the national electrical code can be found here:  The National Electrical Code (NEC) - Electrical Safety Foundation (esfi.org) Another thing to point out is every state has their own way of dealing with electrical supply and competition. As such, some states allow their end users to pick among competitive electrical suppliers even to the point of choosing to use Green Energy (Solar, Wind, and or Hydro) or not (Coal, Natural Gas, Nuclear). Other states tend to regulate this down to the city and or county within a state. Washington state is a regulated power supply state so that depending on the county you live in; you deal with your county or the state power supplier. Washington state has one of the greenest electrical grides in the country. It produces 7,816 MWh of electricity and it breaks down as follows: Figures as of May 16th, 2024 Petroleum-Fired - 0% Natural Gas - 21.3% Coal-Fired - 3.9% Nuclear 10.3% Renewables - 64.1% (Hydro, Wind, Solar & Ocean) Fueling Stations in Washington State: Motor Gasoline - 1,846 Stations Propane - 64 Stations EV Charging - 2,153 stations E85 - 5 stations Biodiesel, CNG, & Other Alternatives - 8 stations If you wish to check out your own state information you can do so here by clicking on your state:  U.S. Energy Information Administration - EIA - Independent Statistics and Analysis Starting off on my project I had decided to go ahead with a ChargePoint+ Home Flex Hardwired solution. Yes, there are a wide variety of good home chargers that run from $250 to $2000 dollars such as the Porsche home charger. Home Flex Hardwired Level 2 EV Charger (chargepoint.com) The choice of this charger was based on the following: Some of the best reviews out there by thousands of people Hardwired allowed me the best power supply available to the EV building in future protection as newer EV tech comes online. ChargePoint sells both CCS and NACS supply cords, making upgrades from my current EV with CCS to a future EV with NACS easy as a self-Upgrade to the charger. ChargePoint app allows for use both at their fast-charging network and to track my own use and cost. You can find a large diverse choice of L1 and L2 chargers on Amazon or from other sources. Many utilities will have rebates if you purchase through your local utility or in the case of my own system, I had to file a rebate form as my charger was on the approved list, but not available from my utility. ChargePoint+ also points out that till 2032 you might be able to qualify for a $1,000 rebate from the federal government. Electric Vehicle (EV) Charging Incentives | ChargePoint Now that I have covered some of the basics about electrical and power source, lets dive into my journey for a Level 2 Home Charger. Karl at the Snohomish PUD sent me a form that I had to fill out, this was a "New Service Residential Request" form. Here I had to fill out the normal details such as my house address, current status of the electrical to the home, type of new service being requested, pictures of where the service would need to be connected to the house and where I wanted the service panel to be, etc. This form had an area for requested measurements from the house to the utility pole, gross measurements of where the wiring would need to go so that the service could be sized up accordingly. The last part was the direction from my PUD on checking with the city for any additional requirements. For those wanting to see what the new service request form looks like I supply it here: 1097R_NSQres.pdf City requirements were that any electrical changes to the existing structure that comprised more than 10% cost of the home improvement value as assessed by the county required that the electrical lines from the utility pole to the house be installed underground rather than overhead. Luckily for me, my estimated costs would be under this so I was not looking to have to figure this into the cost of adding the service or so I thought. Karl at SNOPUD said he would do the assessment and have out to me the updated info shortly. In the meantime, I reached out to a couple of recommended electrical companies from the SNOPUD website and a few independent electricians to get estimates on the work to be done. Specifically, I wanted two quotes, first is the all-new service added to the house with dedicated panel feeding the garage. Second was updating the existing panel to support a charger in the garage using my existing service. Here I was expecting a $5 to $6 thousand dollar install connection for the first service and based on the auto industry estimate of around $1,500 to $2,000 for the second. Boy was I off by a bunch. All the estimates from both the electrical companies I contacted, and the independent contractors had the new service install between $10 to $12 thousand dollars and the existing services was between $4,700 to $6,200. This also did not include the connection to the PUD. Here I was informed from Karl at SNOPUD that the service could be done but would require a new transformer to our cul-d-sac to support the added amperage pull. As such, this was more than just a wire connection but an outage to the cul-d-sac ending in an almost $15,000 charge. Who knew that adding a service where you pay them for the flow of electricity would have such a huge cost and impact on my project. This put the cost of a new service between $25,000 to $27,000 dollars. So much for the Auto Industry estimates of $1,500 to $2,000 dollars and it also did not include the required $125.00 electrical permit I would have to get from the city and inspection. I did keep in mind that the price of electrical work varies based on the cost of labor where one lives, power of the charger, distance from the charger to the electrical panel along with the job complexity. What about DIY (Do it Yourself), could I do this job myself and what would the cost be? First, I knew from all the quotes that I was greatly under my 200-amp service pull as I have Gas stove, Dryer, Water heater and Furnace. As such, the 240V 30-to-50-amp circuits that are in my panel are not being used at all. One of the independent electricians had stated that the cheapest way would be to pull an existing circuit breaker and run the wire into the panel with the new Circuit breaker, but most electricians did not like leaving existing wires from outlets in the panel even if they were sealed off, they just did not like doing this, so everyone had quoted based on adding a secondary panel. With this information, I researched from the ChargePoint+ website on installing the hardwired charger I had purchased from them. ChargePoint+ has installation videos and covers all the information on installation as well as becoming a certified installation expert. ChargePoint Home Resources | ChargePoint ChargePoint Home Flex (CPH50) Hardwired Installation Video | ChargePoint Become a Certified ChargePoint Installer | ChargePoint From the website above I gathered the following information on the materials that I would need. Conduit large enough to hold the wiring Brackets to attach the conduit and screws 90-degree wire access conduit Associated pipe nipple for connection into the panel Insulated bushing Appropriate washer and locknut for connection to the panel 6 AWG wiring Black, Red and Green wires per code ChargePoint+ clearly states to use 6AWG for their Level 2 Charger installation. 6 AWG wire stripper 70amp circuit breaker Some states require these to be Arc or GFCI for indoor or outdoor, national code for outdoor installation is a GFCI breaker upstream from the outdoor installation. Check local regulations for proper type required. Make sure to get the proper type of circuit breaker for your panel, I had D block circuits. Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters vs. Arc Fault Circuit Interrupters - Bob Vila Torque Screwdriver set Most do not know that depending on the size of the circuit breaker, when you connect the wiring to the breaker, the screws must be torqued to a certain range. The 70amp circuits per the side of the breaker states 45 in. lbs. Paintable caulking to seal both access points into the house for the charger. With having my list of materials, I choose to first compare prices online from Home Depot and Lowe's. What I found was that Home Depot was much higher in the cost of the wiring, but cheaper in conduit, circuit breakers and accessories. Lucky, I have both home improvement stores within a 2-mile radius of my house. What I also noticed was that neither home improvement store had the required tools I would need, so clearly, I would have to stop off at my local Harbor Freight tool store. Harbor Freight Tools | Quality Tools, Lowest Prices With the knowledge of what I needed and a shopping list, I headed out and accomplished the following: Electrical Permit from my city.  Wiring from Lowe's - Lowe’s Home Improvement (lowes.com) Conduit, circuit breaker and accessories from Home Depot - The Home Depot Tools from Harbor Freight tools company - Harbor Freight Tools | Quality Tools, Lowest Prices Opening up the electrical panel as you can see here, I have my household 200amp circuit at the top. This will kill power to everything in the house, below this was the kitchen and laundry room 240V circuit and then on down throughout the rest of the house to the garage with various circuits. At this point, I knew that I would be turning off the 200amp circuit to work on this panel and protect the rest of the house. Note to point out is that when you turn off this 200amp circuit, the power is not flowing to the rest of the panel, but you still have the power coming from the street to this panel and so there is live electricity in that 200amp circuit. One must always be cautious when working with electrical. One safety thing to do, remove ALL jewelry, watches, phones, etc. Have nothing on you that is electrical or any kind of metal and that includes a wedding ring. All these are places that can cause an electrical jump / short that can cause you harm. As one that grew up working on auto's and having great respect for the electrical system of auto's, homes, datacenters, etc. there are some things that I do not have a problem doing. In this case I kept the power to the house on while I pulled the panel cover off. A proper panel should have all the wires in 90 degrees to the circuit breakers and to the grounding / neutral bars that are silver in this case. Here I have not had any manipulation of the box done with patchwork electrical hacks. It is always best to learn the details or hire the proper person to do your electrical work. Being that I am comfortable with pulling out the circuit breaker that is turned off, I choose to pull and replace the 240V 30-amp laundry room circuit. Here in this picture, you can see it removed and a better view of the grounding / neutral bar of the electrical panel. At this point, I wanted to pull out the punch of where I was going to run the new electrical lines into the panel. Once I pulled out the punch, I drilled a small starter hole from the inside to the outside so I could line up properly the larger drill bit for the incoming conduit. Upon drilling, I attached the pipe nipple extension to the 90-degree wire access conduit, and I inserted it through the outside wall. Here I put on the washer, lock nut and insulated bushing as you can see here. Now the next step was to install the conduit, some love their hard conduit and gluing it together as it comes in 10ft lengths, and you then have to either use a special heater tool to bend the hard conduit or buy the proper pieces that are curved. I choose to go with liquid proof flexible commercial conduit. The benefit here is that while this is a bit more expensive, the flexibility of the line makes it so much easier to install. One thing no matter what type of conduit you choose to use is that one has to run the electrical lines through the conduit. Hard conduit can be with tight bends very challenging to run the electrical lines unless you have a special tool that allows you to snake through the conduit, attach the electrical lines and then it uses an electrical motor to pull it. I choose to run my flexible conduit out in a straight line, and I had pushed through my three 6awg lines through it so that I had the wire already in the conduit. Now this does make the conduit much heavier to install, but I found it faster and easier to do it this way. You will also notice that I have a Black, White and Green wire rather than the code dictating a Black, Red and Green wire. Both Lowe's and Home Depot were out at the time of purchase the red 6awg wire. So, I did what is allowed and that is on the ends of the wire at both ends, I wrapped them with red electrical tape. I started with connecting the liquid tight end connector to the flexible conduit and attaching it to the 90 degree wire access to the panel. I pushed the wires through to the inside and reattached the liquid tight cover and then started using the brackets to attach the conduit to the house. Two things to consider, one is the over all look of the installation, sometimes the cheapest approach is not the best especially when it comes to ones significant other, wife, partner, etc., not everyone likes to see conduit. I choose to do my best to minimize the visibility of the conduit and once I paint it to match the house it will truly not show up as the wife never noticed it when she came home till after I showed here. Upon installation of the conduit with the 6 AWG wires, it was time to mount the home charger in my designated place. Here you need to make sure it is level, supported by the wall which can sometimes require additional bracing. Here you see my ChargePoint+ unit being installed on the wall. With the charger installed onto the wall, I finished up the connection of the conduit / wires into the unit. Connected the electrical supply side and the charging cable side and reinstalled the cover. With the installation of the charger unit and wiring done, it was time to focus on the circuit breaker installation side. Here I had an LED head light as I finally turned off the 200-amp circuit breaker to the house. I attached the red and black wires to the circuit breaker, installed the ground wire and then installed the circuit breaker into the panel. I also at this time wrapped each wire from the laundry outlet in proper electrical tap and a wire twist to add additional protection and secured them out of the way in the panel corner. I also at this time used my torque screwdriver to ensure proper torque on the wires. With the installation completed at the panel side, I turned back on the 200-amp circuit enabling the house to have power and was time to go enable the charger unit. Here ChargePoint+ has an outstanding cellphone app to enable you to finish up the setup of the charger. I was able to connect to the unit via WiFi and set the unit to 70 amp circuit hardwired. I also then connected it to my house WiFi for internet access. This allowed me to do a update on the unit for software. Here ChargePoint has on the left side of the unit indicators for WiFi connection. Green is good and as you can see in the picture above, I have WiFi connection and the alert is showing green so no issues with the charger. Upon using the regular ChargePoint software app on my smartphone I was able to complete setting up an account and final configuration of my charger as a home charger unit. The unit is green when not in use but ready to be used. During Charging the unit is a pulsing blue. At this point, I had a functional Level 2 240V 50amp hardwired home EV charger with CCS connector. What did this cost me, simple a total of $1,032.23 Level 2 ChargePoint+ Home Flex hardwired charger: $549.99 plus $54.99 sales tax before $200.00 rebate. Total Cost of Materials: $391.77 which was from Home Depot & Lowe's. Tools bought for the job: $110.48 which comprised of a 6 AWG wire striper and a Torque Screwdriver set from Harbor Freight. Electrical Permit: $125 from the city. Best part of this is the cheap charging we get at home at .10 cents per kW. The ChargePoint app allows me to track and monitor in real time our costs and amount used, so it will make it easy to subtract it from the electrical bill to see the house use versus the EV. The app shows that I am constantly at the 11kW controller capabilities of home charging from Kia. This brings me back to why I titled this the Good, Bad and the Ugly. New Service request is the ugly as the costs of the new service from my power supplier has costs that have never been talked about before to me and I still have to pay for the electrical use which makes this the ugly when you are looking at a five figure cost. The bad is clearly adding the new service panel and the associated costs to an electrical company to do the work, pretty much double what the auto industry has stated having a Level 2 home charger installed would actually cost. Good is for those of you who are willing to learn and do the work, a DIY install is in my humble opinion a very cheap way to go even though it did take a chunk of my time, I have no regrets about learning the process to install and dealing with my city on installation. End result is a quality home charger that will serve me well for many years. Please post any questions or comments, happy to respond on this personal journey into home charging of my EV. View full article
    • Tongue and Groove is best! For the Computer Nerds here:
    • One thing leads to another ... having one Alphaville song in my music collection leads to being clue in to another.  These German guys - meaning Alphaville - are good. "Big in Japan" This is quintessentially '80s all the way around, which is just fine!
    • Man cave type jokes since that would describe most of the active members ... here's an oldie but goodie: Did you hear about the two lesbians who built a house? They used no studs ... it was all tongue and groove.
    • This road test of the Citroen C5 was the result of a serious upgrade in a rental at a Sicilian airport.   I’ve been assigned a smaller Citroen C3 at this very airport before – when the AirBump feature was novel and unusual - and remarked on its excellent ride and easy handling. The C5 is quite a few steps up.  Mostly, it’s all good.  This is a heavier vehicle and, along with that, the ride is like that of a bank fault.  It’s smooth, quiet, and isolated.  In some ways, it is perhaps too isolated.  By this, I mean that road feel is a little compromised owing to its very soft ride, and there is too much assist in the steering.  I noticed this upon taking out of the rental agency’s lot and through its narrow alleyways. It reminded me of an American boulevardier more so than the European SUV that it is.  It firms up some on the open road.  It’s at slow speeds that it feels way more "electric" – the way electric felt when there was the palpable adjustment we all had to make from hydraulic steering. This C5 had a diesel engine, but it was almost hard to tell that.  It is a turbo charged 4-cylinder engine.  The mileage was excellent.  It returned about 43 mpg in a combination of driving – mostly highway driving but with some small town and arduous mountain two lane road driving.  The transmission is a geared automatic unit and has 8 gears.  The shifts are extremely soft, which I feel is mostly a good thing, and suited to the C5.  The only time it’s clear that it’s geared is when pushing down the pedal – just because - or to pass. The C5 is powerful enough and certainly has the torque to sustain grades and demanding conditions.  However, passing seems to be a variable situation.  It almost seems to depend on the speed and the grade.  In most situations, it does so fairly easily.  High speed passes require some strategizing, and, in a few rare cases, it seemed better to avoid them.  In maintaining high speeds on the autostrada, it does so effortlessly and stably.  You might not have an idea how fast you’re going (114 km = 70 mph, and, on a few occasions, there were some 120 kms and 130 kms where the “bank vault” feeling didn’t let on that this was the actual speed). The workmanship is quite good.  The seats had centralized cloth surfaces with bolsters and side construction of either leather or leatherette.  There is stitching that is attractive and taut.  The C5 is ideal and comfortable for long hauls.  Front seat comfort and leg room is more than adequate, and rear seat leg room is acceptable.  Rear storage space is capacious, and this is without folding forward the rear seats.  The small lift-up area for the tire well provides for some additional storage and symmetrical small cubbies on the sides of the rear storage area can come in handy. Except for the diagonal edge on the infotainment center screen (a pet peeve), I really liked the volumes of the dashboard. Everything was nicely crafted.  Linear gauges for fuel and temperature seem to be the thing these days and, although nice, it would be easier if they indicated critical zones in orange and/or red.  The audio quality appeared to be good.  Also, setting up Bluetooth and keeping Android Auto going seemed easy. The console, which opens lengthwise in the middle, is both unusual and large.  The air conditioning works quickly.  In concert with liking the volumes of the dashboard, the number and placement of vents worked well to distribute the cool air.  Ahead of the console are two ergonomically placed cupholders and all the switches for key operating functions ahead of them reflect quality workmanship and are easy to operate. These would include the pushbutton engine start button, the transmission lever, the drive mode selector, and the parking brake.  That said, I found operating some of these features on a rented (and reviewed) BMW Series II Gran Coupe less intuitive.  In general, I liked everything about day in-day out living in this C5 more than in the fussier BMW Gran Coupe.  However, with its lower framework and Germanic underpinnings, the BMW really shone for its roadability and the sense of control it offered. The C5’s silhouette is not that captivating.  However, they work around the “chunkiness” and this can be seen from the interior.  I was surprised at how good rear visibility is.  The seating position is high and commanding relative to the road.  In tight spaces, the tabletop look of the hood ahead of the windshield doesn’t have clearly defined ridges and is harder to work with.  It appears wide for the genre.  Thankfully, the parking assist feature and other traffic sensors were fairly sensitive. I asked a friend who likes cars and rents them often in Europe what he thought of the major French brands.  He ranked them as follows: Citroen, Peugeot, and then Renault.  This vehicle speaks well to the Citroen brand and also aligned with what I’ve experienced among these brands. For a person with a little extra money and who needs the space, a supple ride, and its “thickness” all the way around, the Citroen C5 is a good choice.  On a few occasions, its vagueness annoyed me, but that wasn’t too often.  It was challenging to operate on a few narrower Sicilian streets and alleys, but that would apply to narrow streets and parking lots anywhere.  For some, this C5 could check most, if not all, of the boxes. - - - - - PHOTOS FORTHCOMING
  • Who's Online (See full list)

  • My Clubs

×
×
  • Create New...

Hey there, we noticed you're using an ad-blocker. We're a small site that is supported by ads or subscriptions. We rely on these to pay for server costs and vehicle reviews.  Please consider whitelisting us in your ad-blocker, or if you really like what you see, you can pick up one of our subscriptions for just $1.75 a month or $15 a year. It may not seem like a lot, but it goes a long way to help support real, honest content, that isn't generated by an AI bot.

See you out there.

Drew
Editor-in-Chief

Write what you are looking for and press enter or click the search icon to begin your search