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  • Drew Dowdell
    Drew Dowdell

    A New Nautilus Surfaces

      The first Lincoln built in China that will be sold in the U.S.

    large.2024LincolnNautilusReserveJetPackage_07.webpLincoln unveiled an all-new Nautilus for the 2024 model year today. Unlike the prior model, which ended production last year, there is no Ford counterpart, giving Lincoln its first model in decades without a direct counterpart from a lesser brand.  Lincoln has reimagined the interior to maximize space and comfort for its occupants.

    The 2024 Nautilus bathes its occupants in luxury. A new console-style dash features "The Lincoln Embrace", an animation that starts at the center of the display and extends out, flowing into the door panels. The screen is the largest in its class and extends the entire width of the vehicle.  This allows Nautilus drivers to create their own sanctuary with personalized information to help keep eyes on the road.  When stationary, Nautilus orchestrates the available Lincoln Rejuvenate experience, a curation of visual, audio, and physical sensations that allow driver and passenger to recharge. As part of Lincoln Rejuvenate or as a standalone option, three curated scents will be available, – Mystic Forest, an earthy blend large.2024LincolnNautilusReserveJetPackage_BlackOnyx_04.webpwith woody, rich notes of patchouli; Ozonic Azure, a crisp blend of aromatic patchouli and traces of bright violet and Violet Cashmere, exotic white florals and trusted violet that are crisp and refined as fresh linen. Three levels of scent are available and controlled through the information system. Android Auto, Apple CarPlay, and Alexa are all standard, allowing the user control of music, calendar, route planning, and home automation.

    Available only in all-wheel drive, the Nautilus offers two powertrain choices. The base engine is a 2.0-liter 4-cylinder mated to an 8-speed automatic with a targeted output of 250 horsepower and 275 lb.-ft. of torque. Lincoln has lightened the components of the all-wheel drive system to improve fuel economy. Additionally, Lincoln will offer a hybrid model using the same gas engine but paired via a CVT with a 100-kw (about 134 hp) electric drive unit. The total system horsepower will be approximately 310 hp.

    large.2024LincolnBlackLabelNautilus_Redwood_02.webpThe chassis is managed by an active suspension with a suite of sensors that monitor motion and movement to provide an effortless gliding drive. Lincoln will also offer an updated BlueCruise 1.2, Lincoln's hands-free driving system for highway travel.

    Nautilus will be available in four exterior colors, Red Carpet, Diamond Red, Chroma Caviar and Blue Panther, with new interior themes. Black Onyx and Medium Light Space Gray is the core theme available on most models. Smoked Truffle is a warm, neutral theme. Black Onyx and Allura Blue is limited to Reserve models and highlights the Lincoln brand. The Jet Appearance Package, which is available on all trims, includes two-tone paint, available high gloss-black 22-inch wheels, an exclusive interior environment, and anodized black exterior elements. The package offers a sleeker and more dynamic look – another way for clients to personalize their Nautilus. The exclusive Black Onyx Sport interior features a Copper Code aluminum applique, enhanced by Dusted Copper accent stitching throughout.

    Lincoln's ultimate Black-Label trim gets two bespoke options. Chalet is a popular option in other Lincoln Black-Label models, and debuting on Nautilus is a new Redwood theme. Redwood mimics the warmth and beauty of the redwood forest with a tree-inspired motif.

    From rich textures to immersive audio, Nautilus will offer the award-winning available Revel Ultima 3D Audio System which features 28 speakers that envelop each occupant in rich, precise, and multidimensional sound. Paired with the available 24-Way Perfect Position Driver and Passenger Seats, the Nautilus creates a concert-like experience on the road.

    The 2024 Lincoln Nautilus will arrive in North America in early 2024, but ordering for the Nautilus is available now at Lincoln.com.

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    Still Wrong wheel drive at its core...don't understand why they couldn't just chop down the Wheelbase of the Aviator and make a properly proportioned RWD based CUV.  Leaving money on the table by not doing standard box CUV and CUV coupe.

     

    Interior is nice though 10/10 there but hard pass due to layout

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    21 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    I can't figure out if I am more surprised that the Nautilus is still on the market, or that they actually spent money to redesign it.

    Except for the last two years where they dropped AWD and a lot of the upper trim level options, it actually sold fairly decently by Lincoln standards.

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    13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    I can't figure out if I am more surprised that the Nautilus is still on the market, or that they actually spent money to redesign it.

    Because of course you are "surprised".

    Fun fact: There are many good vehicles that exist outside of Germany. 

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    The powertrain options are quite underwhelming, to say the least. I get this isn't some performance CUV but it got larger with the same base engine(making less torque) and no real "big engine" anymore. I'm sure the hybrid moves sufficiently enough though.

    The dash is interesting. It's probably just how it's all shaped but it looks like it sits high and would be tough to see over. I'm sure that's just an illusion because dashes just aren't shaped like this. 

    The two spoke steering wheel...weird. Not necessarily bad but, it's weird looking. Why is it slightly squared? 

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    10 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    The powertrain options are quite underwhelming, to say the least. I get this isn't some performance CUV but it got larger with the same base engine(making less torque) and no real "big engine" anymore. I'm sure the hybrid moves sufficiently enough though.

    The dash is interesting. It's probably just how it's all shaped but it looks like it sits high and would be tough to see over. I'm sure that's just an illusion because dashes just aren't shaped like this. 

    The two spoke steering wheel...weird. Not necessarily bad but, it's weird looking. Why is it slightly squared? 

    Apparently, it has "added lightness", so with that in mind, it probably plays with the mid-pack Lexus RX (and looks better too).

    They made the steering wheel like that to give the best view of that coast-to-coast dash. They wanted to prevent blocking the view.

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    16 hours ago, SDotJizzle said:

    Still Wrong wheel drive at its core...don't understand why they couldn't just chop down the Wheelbase of the Aviator and make a properly proportioned RWD based CUV.  Leaving money on the table by not doing standard box CUV and CUV coupe.

    Interior is nice though 10/10 there but hard pass due to layout

    So you feel there should be a RWD plus AWD layout?

    Yet people spending this amount of money seem to want AWD which would tend to make it understandable why they are only offering AWD.

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    52 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Apparently, it has "added lightness", so with that in mind, it probably plays with the mid-pack Lexus RX (and looks better too).

    I thought that was just the engine itself. I must have missed the vehicles itself "added lightness"

    16 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Lincoln has lightened the components of the all-wheel drive system to improve fuel economy.

    This is what I was only thinking of.

     

    53 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    They made the steering wheel like that to give the best view of that coast-to-coast dash. They wanted to prevent blocking the view.

    Ahhh that's understandable. I'm sure it's fine, it just looks a little funky. 

     

     

    16 hours ago, SDotJizzle said:

    Still Wrong wheel drive at its core...don't understand why they couldn't just chop down the Wheelbase of the Aviator and make a properly proportioned RWD based CUV.  Leaving money on the table by not doing standard box CUV and CUV coupe.

     

    Interior is nice though 10/10 there but hard pass due to layout

    It's a comfy, lazy CUV. While it would be nice, it's completely unnecessary for Lincoln to do this. 

    It definitely sounds more expensive to reconfigure the Aviator/Explorer platform than update what it was already on. Lincoln doesn't sell enough to dump too much money into it. I highly doubt if they went RWD their sales would just double to pay for the engineering.

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    3 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

    Because of course you are "surprised".

    Fun fact: There are many good vehicles that exist outside of Germany. 

    And those good vehicles usually come from Tesla and Toyota.  But I’d take the Lincoln over a Nissan/Infiniti, Acura or an XT5, although this costs more than an XT6.  And you can’t trust Land Rover or Alfa Romeo reliability.  
     

    The Cadillac Lyric with the tax credit is cheaper than the Nautilus.  That seems like a no brainer.

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    1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

    I thought that was just the engine itself. I must have missed the vehicles itself "added lightness"

    This is what I was only thinking of.

    Ahhh that's understandable. I'm sure it's fine, it just looks a little funky.

    It's a comfy, lazy CUV. While it would be nice, it's completely unnecessary for Lincoln to do this. 

    It definitely sounds more expensive to reconfigure the Aviator/Explorer platform than update what it was already on. Lincoln doesn't sell enough to dump too much money into it. I highly doubt if they went RWD their sales would just double to pay for the engineering.

    It's on a greatly enlarged Escape/BroncoSport/Maverick platform rather than the cut-down version of the old Explorer platform.  But given its size, there is no direct Ford counterpart.

    It has a 114.2" wheelbase compared to the Escapes' 107.5", overall length is 193" v. 180.5", and wheel track is 65" v 62". It's actually larger than the old Nautilus which was 112.2" wb and 190" in length, 64" wheel track.  It's about 200 lbs lighter at 4,349 lbs v. 4,545 lbs when comparing AWD to AWD models.  The old FWD with 2.0T was as low as 4,165.

    It's much easier to add strength without adding a lot of weight to an already light platform than it is to take weight out of a larger heavy platform.

    The hybrid with all that low end torque should move along briskly

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    1 hour ago, David said:

    So you feel there should be a RWD plus AWD layout?

    Yet people spending this amount of money seem to want AWD which would tend to make it understandable why they are only offering AWD.

    RWD based AWD optional...give it a proper layout.  I hate to keep bringing them up, but look at what mazda did with the CX90 and soon to be CX70...they could've just mailed it in and done another CX9 and CX5, But they wanted that long hood/short overhang. 

    Now being said, midsized CUVs are the bread and butter segment.  The xt5 and this are also rans, the RX and MDX are the top dogs here...cede that segment, up your price and undercut the X5, GLE with a RWD based product.   Sure the sales numbers won't be there but your ATP and profit margins would be higher.  And as a side effect, you improve your brands prestige.

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    13 minutes ago, SDotJizzle said:

    RWD based AWD optional...give it a proper layout.  I hate to keep bringing them up, but look at what mazda did with the CX90 and soon to be CX70...they could've just mailed it in and done another CX9 and CX5, But they wanted that long hood/short overhang. 

    Now being said, midsized CUVs are the bread and butter segment.  The xt5 and this are also rans, the RX and MDX are the top dogs here...cede that segment, up your price and undercut the X5, GLE with a RWD based product.   Sure the sales numbers won't be there but your ATP and profit margins would be higher.  And as a side effect, you improve your brands prestige.

    I get your point. I will have to disagree with the Mazda thing as I still do not think they are as great as people are saying they are. RX and MDX are total garbage also as I have sister in-law that has two of the MDX and they have been reliability nightmares. The RX is just a cheap plastic interior with blah driving characteristics. 

    My sister was serious about the RX and Buick Envision. Test drove both and the RX lost out in quality of driving as well as quiet interior.

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    44 minutes ago, David said:

    I get your point. I will have to disagree with the Mazda thing as I still do not think they are as great as people are saying they are. RX and MDX are total garbage also as I have sister in-law that has two of the MDX and they have been reliability nightmares. The RX is just a cheap plastic interior with blah driving characteristics. 

    My sister was serious about the RX and Buick Envision. Test drove both and the RX lost out in quality of driving as well as quiet interior.

    Just understand that whatever it is that you think about the RX and MDX...the XT5 is much worse.

    Re: choosing the Buick over the Lexus...I get it, when I bought my Mazda 6 I went to a Lexus dealer to buy a new ES350 F Sport in that dark grey color w/ the Red leather seats.  Buuut problem was that they also had a used Mazda 6 Signature w/ 12k on the odo on their lot for almost half the price...27 vs 51k.  Didn't end up going used, but I ended up buying a new 6 Grand Touring reserve...1 trim down.  

    Now was the Lexus a better quality car....yes it was undoubtedly, but was it 24k better?  Nope, not even close

    Edited by SDotJizzle
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    1 hour ago, SDotJizzle said:

    up your price and undercut the X5, GLE with a RWD based product. 

    The RWD based Aviator competes directly with the above mentioned and undercoat both in price already, yet its sales are average at best. That does not make a good case to switch yet another CUV to RWD just because, especially with EVs coming in to take their place. Just not a good business case of Lincoln right now. The next RWD CUV/SUV from them with be an EV, more than likely. 

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    1 minute ago, surreal1272 said:

    The RWD based Aviator competes directly with the above mentioned and undercoat both in price already, yet its sales are average at best. That does not make a good case to switch yet another CUV to RWD just because, especially with EVs coming in to take their place. Just not a good business case of Lincoln right now. The next RWD CUV/SUV from them with be an EV, more than likely. 

    They also don't build as many Aviators as they build GLEs and X5s...the volume product out that plant is the Explorer...without a doubt.  Margin per vehicle produced, I bet they're somewhere in the same ballpark.  

    I remember having this heated debate on another forum where it was sworn up and down that the XTsux as I call the XT6 was the superior vehicle, and it'll sell more...it isn't and it really doesn't.  Besides, sales isn't really the end all be all metric of determining which car is better.  More popular/more attainable sure, but overall better?  Not really.  When I buy an auto, I want the best car that I can get for the job...for the money.  Popularity be damned.

    Would you say that the Camry was the best car in the world at any point in your life?

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    51 minutes ago, SDotJizzle said:

    I remember having this heated debate on another forum where it was sworn up and down that the XTsux as I call the XT6 was the superior vehicle, and it'll sell more...it isn't and it really doesn't.

    I hate the XT6 so damn much.  For the great engineering GM put into the CT-cars, they couldn't have done a more badge-job than the XT6. It's the closest thing to putting lipstick on a pig in the automotive world as it gets. 

    I know I'm a Lindoln/Ford fan and Lincoln did the same trash 10 or so years ago. But, they've vastly changed and all Lincolns have at least an engine option the comparable Ford doesn't get. 

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    53 minutes ago, SDotJizzle said:

    They also don't build as many Aviators as they build GLEs and X5s...the volume product out that plant is the Explorer...without a doubt.  Margin per vehicle produced, I bet they're somewhere in the same ballpark.

    Not the point. You wanted a RWD competitor for the two Germans mentioned and I simply stated that Lincoln already has that. Volume, or lack thereof, does not change that fact. 

     

    And not sure what bringing up the Camry and sales have to do with anything I mentioned either since I never brought up sales being the be all, end all. Sales are simply sales and have zero bearing on the quality of a car. Dime a dozen Corollas prove this.

     

    Just saying.

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    25 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

    Not the point. You wanted a RWD competitor for the two Germans mentioned and I simply stated that Lincoln already has that. Volume, or lack thereof, does not change that fact. 

     

    And not sure what bringing up the Camry and sales have to do with anything I mentioned either since I never brought up sales being the be all, end all. Sales are simply sales and have zero bearing on the quality of a car. Dime a dozen Corollas prove this.

     

    Just saying.

     

    1 hour ago, SDotJizzle said:

    They also don't build as many Aviators as they build GLEs and X5s...the volume product out that plant is the Explorer...without a doubt.  Margin per vehicle produced, I bet they're somewhere in the same ballpark.  

    I remember having this heated debate on another forum where it was sworn up and down that the XTsux as I call the XT6 was the superior vehicle, and it'll sell more...it isn't and it really doesn't.  Besides, sales isn't really the end all be all metric of determining which car is better.  More popular/more attainable sure, but overall better?  Not really.  When I buy an auto, I want the best car that I can get for the job...for the money.  Popularity be damned.

    Would you say that the Camry was the best car in the world at any point in your life?

    At a guess, they wouldn't have been able to shrink the platform for Nautilus enough to make it distinct from the Aviator.

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    3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    It's on a greatly enlarged Escape/BroncoSport/Maverick platform rather than the cut-down version of the old Explorer platform.  But given its size, there is no direct Ford counterpart.

    Is that what the previous Edge/Nautilus were on or is this an all-new transition? 

    I'm actually really surprised it's on the Escape-platform. Good to know they're able to use an existing platform and amortize that. 

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    4 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    Is that what the previous Edge/Nautilus were on or is this an all-new transition? 

    I'm actually really surprised it's on the Escape-platform. Good to know they're able to use an existing platform and amortize that. 

    This is all new. Previous Edge/Nautilus was on a conglomeration of Mazda6/Fusion parts on a platform called CD4 and earier than that CD3. Explorer platform was D3 and goes back to the old Volvo P1 platform that was under the S80. D3 and CD3 are inter-related variants and share a lot of parts.

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    2 hours ago, SDotJizzle said:

    Just understand that whatever it is that you think about the RX and MDX...the XT5 is much worse.

    Re: choosing the Buick over the Lexus...I get it, when I bought my Mazda 6 I went to a Lexus dealer to buy a new ES350 F Sport in that dark grey color w/ the Red leather seats.  Buuut problem was that they also had a used Mazda 6 Signature w/ 12k on the odo on their lot for almost half the price...27 vs 51k.  Didn't end up going used, but I ended up buying a new 6 Grand Touring reserve...1 trim down.  

    Now was the Lexus a better quality car....yes it was undoubtedly, but was it 24k better?  Nope, not even close

    I totally agree that Cadillac XT lineup has been a money grab and I cannot fault them for doing it even though I hate it. I agree that when you compare the XT5 to others there are good choices. If you are wanting to support American companies then those choices are few and so discounts, cheap financing, etc. is what one uses to buy the XT line. I have supported Cadillac, but not been a vocal fan about the XT lineup. Much improvement can be done.

    I agree that the Buick was a better choice than the RX. My sister had a Mazda 6 but for her job as an in home open wound nurse she drives about 30K miles a year and when looking at what Buick had to everyone else at the time and being end of the year. She got her color and a fully loaded Envision at a bargain price of $39K out the door when MSRP at the time was  $56K.

    Like you, she wanted new, was not totally happy with the Mazda CUVs then and when she compares the CX5 to the Envision she was shocked at how noisy the CX5 was and not responsive. The layout also was a big confusing for her as she is not a tech person. She found what she liked and it worked out well for her just like you and your Mazda 6. Glade you found what you wanted at a deal you were happy with.

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    3 hours ago, David said:

    I get your point. I will have to disagree with the Mazda thing as I still do not think they are as great as people are saying they are. RX and MDX are total garbage also as I have sister in-law that has two of the MDX and they have been reliability nightmares. The RX is just a cheap plastic interior with blah driving characteristics. 

    My sister was serious about the RX and Buick Envision. Test drove both and the RX lost out in quality of driving as well as quiet interior.

    The RX may be a blah, but the Lexus build quality and reliability leads to low ownership cost and high resale value.  A used car buyer won't touch a GM 3.6 V6 with 150,000 miles on it, when people won't think twice about a 200,000 mile Lexus.  My aunt is on her 2nd ES350, the first she put about 220k miles on then passed on to my cousin who has been driving it the past 2 years, that car might be nearing 250k miles at this point.  And that's dealing with Minnesota winter abuse too.  

    And good on Mazda for doing rear drive and a straight 6, but that probably could have been used 5 years ago.  Seems like hybrids and turbo 4 or EV has been the trend, and they are setting up 10 years of a thirsty 6 cylinder that makes turbo 4 power.

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    2024 Lincoln Nautilus pricing with destination:

    Premier:  $51,810

    Reserve:  $56,145

    Black Label: $75,860

    2023 Lincoln Aviator 

    Standard:  $53,340

    Reserve: $59,005

    Black Label $80,725

    These are pretty close in price, and all those Nautilus prices are with the 2.0T, if you add the $1500 Hybrid that gets the power a little closer to the Aviator, it is basically the same price.  

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    16 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    The RX may be a blah, but the Lexus build quality and reliability leads to low ownership cost and high resale value.  A used car buyer won't touch a GM 3.6 V6 with 150,000 miles on it, when people won't think twice about a 200,000 mile Lexus.  My aunt is on her 2nd ES350, the first she put about 220k miles on then passed on to my cousin who has been driving it the past 2 years, that car might be nearing 250k miles at this point.  And that's dealing with Minnesota winter abuse too.  

    Lexus Build Quality? 

    dennis weening lol GIF by SBS6

    This is what I call the Lemming affect. They used to have quality, but lately even my aunt who is on her 4th Lexus and has had two of them with dropped ceiling over the back seats seems to be blind to all the issues she has had to take her current RX in for. 

    I just do not get this devotion to Lexus as it is not what it used to be when they had the awesome commercial on how smooth their V8 was with a wine glass on it.

    I would say that Lexus is not here anymore IMHO.

    In regards to your comment on V6, I would take that over any 4 banger from Lexus or Toyota any day for reliability.

    Most common issues with the Toyota V6

    The 4 Most Common Toyota 1GR-FE Engine Problems - Toyota 4.0L V6 (tuningpro.co)

    Toyota Burns Oil | Excessive Engine Oil Consumption (youcanic.com)

    Why Toyotas Burn So Much Oil and What You Can Do About It | Torque News

    Toyota Tundra Warning About Its Engine Change | Torque News

    Plenty of sites have this info, but Toyota to folks that just blindly follow will say it is the best, but their is more truth to engine and quality issues than Toyota would want folks to know.

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    7 minutes ago, David said:

    Lexus Build Quality? 

    dennis weening lol GIF by SBS6

    This is what I call the Lemming affect. They used to have quality, but lately even my aunt who is on her 4th Lexus and has had two of them with dropped ceiling over the back seats seems to be blind to all the issues she has had to take her current RX in for. 

    I just do not get this devotion to Lexus as it is not what it used to be when they had the awesome commercial on how smooth their V8 was with a wine glass on it.

    I would say that Lexus is not here anymore IMHO.

    In regards to your comment on V6, I would take that over any 4 banger from Lexus or Toyota any day for reliability.

    Most common issues with the Toyota V6

    The 4 Most Common Toyota 1GR-FE Engine Problems - Toyota 4.0L V6 (tuningpro.co)

    Toyota Burns Oil | Excessive Engine Oil Consumption (youcanic.com)

    Why Toyotas Burn So Much Oil and What You Can Do About It | Torque News

    Toyota Tundra Warning About Its Engine Change | Torque News

    Plenty of sites have this info, but Toyota to folks that just blindly follow will say it is the best, but their is more truth to engine and quality issues than Toyota would want folks to know.

    You can find plenty of forums with GM and Ford quality issues too, Northstar V8 and Triton V8, enough said there.

    Here is the 10 year resale from Car Edge on the Lexus and Lincoln,  the Lincoln after 10 years is worth $10,000 less and $9,000 less after just 5 years.   And the Aviator actually has the same 45% drop in 5 years.  These Lincolns are bad resale, which is why people buy a Lexus, because when they go to sell it in 5-10 years, it is worth way more money. 

    Screenshot2023-04-18at6_03_52PM.thumb.png.6987a0670b784ef672193b91250509ea.pngScreenshot2023-04-18at6_04_25PM.thumb.png.1143d79f8ed83473e3604ef0eede052c.png

     

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    2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    The RX may be a blah, but the Lexus build quality and reliability leads to low ownership cost and high resale value.  A used car buyer won't touch a GM 3.6 V6 with 150,000 miles on it, when people won't think twice about a 200,000 mile Lexus.  My aunt is on her 2nd ES350, the first she put about 220k miles on then passed on to my cousin who has been driving it the past 2 years, that car might be nearing 250k miles at this point.  And that's dealing with Minnesota winter abuse too.  

    And good on Mazda for doing rear drive and a straight 6, but that probably could have been used 5 years ago.  Seems like hybrids and turbo 4 or EV has been the trend, and they are setting up 10 years of a thirsty 6 cylinder that makes turbo 4 power.

    Can't argue with any of that.. that straight 6 would've been more useful in a RWD Mazda 6...but oh well crossovers for everyone.  ?

     

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    3 hours ago, David said:

    Literally from the link you posted.

     

    "Toyota 4.0L V6 comes with benefits – longevity and reliability."

     

    Pointing out the issues (that clearly affect very few of those when you realize how many of those were made over those years) does not change the above in bold and doesn't make anyone a "lemming" any more so than your posts on EVs make you a "lemming". BTW, the sheer number of 4.0L equipped Toyotas for sale with over 200K miles on them, backs up my assertion about their overall reliability and longevity and again, nothing "lemming" about it because I am happy to supply endless ads on that one to prove it lol.

     

    Besides, I can literally find sites with issues on ANY motor or car. It's not that hard on even the most reliable vehicle out there because we have little thing called the internet that enables millions to bitch about their problem motors when they are going bad but rarely compliment their motors when things are going well. See what I am saying?

     

    Shall I post the endless issues, over the last 25 years, on the 5.3L from GM? Will that make it any less unreliable in your eyes?

    Edited by surreal1272
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    The Cadillac XT5 and XT6 need upgrades to make them more Cadillac.  NO excuses, GM.

    As for the Nautilus, too bad it is being built in China rather than the USA.  I know Buick was saved by Chinese sales.  How many Lincolns are sold in China vs. North America?

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    10 hours ago, riviera74 said:

    The Cadillac XT5 and XT6 need upgrades to make them more Cadillac.  NO excuses, GM.

    As for the Nautilus, too bad it is being built in China rather than the USA.  I know Buick was saved by Chinese sales.  How many Lincolns are sold in China vs. North America?

    TBH...they (XT5/XTsux) shouldn't exist in their current form.  Cadillac should've been looking at MB/BMW as competitors instead of the low hanging fruit FWD RX, MDXs of the world.  This is why Buick is still around.  They should've been going after entry level luxury.  Cadillac dove downmarket to chase numbers and squeezed out it's own sibling brand.  

    IMO GM should just be Chevrolet & Cadillac....Buick and GMC don't really serve a purpose but to only cater to truck guys that feel like they're too good for a Chevy.  

    Edited by SDotJizzle
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    40 minutes ago, SDotJizzle said:

    TBH...they (XT5/XTsux) shouldn't exist in their current form.  Cadillac should've been looking at MB/BMW as competitors instead of the low hanging fruit FWD RX, MDXs of the world.  This is why Buick is still around.  They should've been going after entry level luxury.  Cadillac dove downmarket to chase numbers and squeezed out it's own sibling brand.  

    IMO GM should just be Chevrolet & Cadillac....Buick and GMC don't really serve a purpose but to only cater to truck guys that feel like they're too good for a Chevy.  

    I agree with you that Cadillac should have NOT gone down stream and I can tell you in the past few years we have had plenty of discussions here where many feel the same that Cadillac should have focused on upstream.

    Buick / GMC has it's place as GMC really is the Cadillac of the Truck/SUV area with the Denali Trim. Buick is that mid luxury trim level that has it's place but even now with Chevrolet having trucks/SUVs that hit 6 figures, Buick is a relic of the past and could go away for the US market.

    GMC still give GM way more profit and truck/SUV sales with their Professional Grade marketing that many like and as such, I can see it living on along with Chevrolet. GMC should just cover the mid premium to upscale premium segment as GMC retiring Buick brand. Move those models that will have success under GMC such as the Electra, National, etc. Those models that would still drive sales.

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    3 hours ago, David said:

    I agree with you that Cadillac should have NOT gone down stream and I can tell you in the past few years we have had plenty of discussions here where many feel the same that Cadillac should have focused on upstream.

    Buick / GMC has it's place as GMC really is the Cadillac of the Truck/SUV area with the Denali Trim. Buick is that mid luxury trim level that has it's place but even now with Chevrolet having trucks/SUVs that hit 6 figures, Buick is a relic of the past and could go away for the US market.

    GMC still give GM way more profit and truck/SUV sales with their Professional Grade marketing that many like and as such, I can see it living on along with Chevrolet. GMC should just cover the mid premium to upscale premium segment as GMC retiring Buick brand. Move those models that will have success under GMC such as the Electra, National, etc. Those models that would still drive sales.

    The Buick Envista base price is actually less than the 2024 Trax and Trailblazer.  Buick isn’t mid-Lux anymore, they are basically a dumping ground for GM global products how Saturn used to be.  
     

    They could make Denali a Chevy trim and not need GMC.  I think GMC is mainly around because of the dealer agreements, and it isn’t worth paying off all those dealers off.  If GM was starting from scratch today it would probably be Chevy-Cadillac, but they are 100 years into this model and aren’t going to change it now.

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    Dumping/Retiring Buick would be a serious mistake for one reason: CHINA.  As for GMC, ditching that brand would send those truck/SUV sales to FORD.

    Instead, I would push Cadillac upmarket so that there is actual room for Buick and GMC.  GM used to do that between 1920 and about 1980.  It was highly successful.  If the work is put in, that strategy can work again, with fewer makes and models this time.

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    1 hour ago, riviera74 said:

    Dumping/Retiring Buick would be a serious mistake for one reason: CHINA.  As for GMC, ditching that brand would send those truck/SUV sales to FORD.

    Instead, I would push Cadillac upmarket so that there is actual room for Buick and GMC.  GM used to do that between 1920 and about 1980.  It was highly successful.  If the work is put in, that strategy can work again, with fewer makes and models this time.

    I think Buick can be a China Brand only. GMC I agree would see those sales go to Ford or RAM. I believe as I have always believed that GMC can survive as a mid-level brand. Totally agree with Cadillac moving up market.

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    On 4/18/2023 at 7:12 PM, riviera74 said:

    The Cadillac XT5 and XT6 need upgrades to make them more Cadillac.  NO excuses, GM.

    As for the Nautilus, too bad it is being built in China rather than the USA.  I know Buick was saved by Chinese sales.  How many Lincolns are sold in China vs. North America?

    Seems according to this story, the refreshed XT5 & 6 will go to China only. They will stay as is for 2024 model year and then both will be retired as they will be replaced by EVs.

    Next-Gen Cadillac XT5 Is 'Homeroomed' In China (cadillacsociety.com)

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