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    William Maley

    Musk Says Tesla Model 3 Owners Will Have To Pay To Use Supercharger Stations

      Model 3 Owners who were hoping to have free access to the various Supercharger stations will be disappointed with this news

    One of the key benefits of owning a Telsa is having access to the various Supercharger stations around U.S. for free. But if you're one of the 300,000-plus buyers for the Model 3, you'll have to pay to have your vehicle charged at the station.

     

    “Free Supercharging fundamentally has a cost,” said Telsa CEO Elon Musk at the company's annual shareholders meeting yesterday.

     

    "The obvious thing to do is decouple that from the cost of the Model 3. So it will still be very cheap, and far cheaper than gasoline, to drive long-distance with the Model 3, but it will not be free long distance for life unless you purchase that package.”

     

    That package in question would give Model 3 owners the previlage of charging for free at Supercharger stations like owners of the Model S and X. Bloomberg says Musk didn't provide any more details of this package.

     

    A key benefit of the Supercharger station is how fast it can charge up a Tesla vehicle. Within 30 minutes, the station will charge the battery back up to provide a range of 170 miles.

     

    Source: Bloomberg

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    I think we all fully expected this. Let's see how the pre-orders go now. 

     

    But here's the deal. Electricity ain't free. So this is a sound business decision. But will people be taken aback? Certainly. But then you look at where the automaker is, it simply cannot afford any mistakes or unnecessary costs. at this time.

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    I think he had to move to this cost model eventually.  I bet eventually even the Model S and X will start to have to charge for it too.

     

    The problem is one of assholes... people who park their Tesla at a supercharger station all day and clog up the system. 

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    Yeah, and GM will suddenly start expanding the the electric infrastructure which Mary Barra went on record to say GM isn't interested in supporting fast charging for its cars at this time.

     

    Yep, that's the rule of every industry. Look at personal finance/credit - people with modest means have many times been forced to use payday loans with tremendous EAR's. Poor people get shafted everywhere. Cheap GM cars once were cost cutted in such a simple place - we all know where. Ford with the Pinto did a cost/benefit analysis by placing a value on the lives of people (the cost of settling litigation versus the cost of re-engineering the placement of the fuel tank. Toyota in a treacherous bout of Japanese greed started to fall in love with its products that had poor quality.  

     

    It's the same as luxury buyers getting free car detailing and other perks of paying high premiums.

     

    Or are you going to say that suddenly GM has the means to pay for Bolt owner's charging in their own specific charging stations?

     

    Most likely this way...Tesla can get some or all of the cost recovery of the supercharger network and expand it even more rapidly.

     

    See that's the thing... I was talking about this even before this announcement was made. Electric cars will have to become viable, and that means doing things right - which aren't always favored by all.

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    Horrible optics all the same. The high-rollers roll for free while the plebes pay to play?

     

    The high rollers probably spent enough to buy two Model-3s... so why wouldn't it come with?

    Equus buyers get a "free" iPad. while genesis 3.8 sedan buyers get nothing.

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    And honestly, if I were buying a Model-3, I'm probably not going to worry about unfettered access to the Supercharger network.  Most of the time, I'll be driving within range of my house anyway, so I would just fill up at home.  The few times a year I need to take it on a long trip, I would pay the fee to use the Supercharger.... no biggie.   It's still cheaper than gas in the long run, and in that scenario, probably cheaper than paying the unlimited use supercharger fee. 

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    Suddenly Tesla making a very good choice, something that will keep them going is to be frowned upon, because it changes the vision, and it proves that they have to be humble to themselves and be honest to their future, more mainstream customers.

     

    Well we all want the world to improve, but many of us don't want it to change.

     

    It's unbearably naive to think this is yet another occasion of the rich preying on the masses. Their purchases of the Roadster and S, and X are what got this automaker here. The willing shareholders eventually want profits, and the company has to grow up, but not compromise itself. And I don't expect the free superchargers to last for anyone. Part of the problem is that again, what was meant for occasional use suffered the tragedies of the commons. Free-for-all means a destruction of a resource for all to enjoy in the sparing moments. Sure, you had to pay to play, when have we not? 

     

    We all cry about the price of gas, yet suck it up and pump it, shove it into our vehicles

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    first step to adding taxes to vehicle charging to make up what is lost in gas tax, and to be honest, that is fair, as long as the amount is fair.  People need to realize once electrics take off, the taxation shift will probably follow.  Again, fair in concept, if you want the roads still.  Tesla doing this would be a great way to test the acceptance of that tax replacement.

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    i think they could charge for Supercharger use on every car, and probably eventually they will.  Gas stations aren't giving away unlimited free gas, if it costs $5 at the Supercharger station to fill up no big deal.  And you can charge at home.

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    Yes the frosting is off the cake. I should make up Tesla Shirts that say A$$, Grass or Electric no one rides free. 

     

    The free is going to go away as Tesla has to start making money and these add on items are where it is at. 

     

    The S model people paid for the Superchargers in the price of the car and just never knew it. Nothing in life is free and if it is then odds are no one wants it like Pickeled Herring. 

     

    Tesla is in a bind. They have put out billions and not yet really seen much return on the investment and even the 3 is not going to be the cheap car that it was made out to be. Yes it will be cheaper than a S but not Cheap as in Bolt Cheap with all the options. People tend to not understand the Bolt comes with most everything while the Elon basement price is going to be bare bones. Even he said $35K is not going to be the price by the time it arrives. 

    He went on a media blitz again this week promising people to Mars by 2025 and that the three styling would be done in 3 weeks? Generally even GM has the Show car done before they show it.  I figure he will proclaim himself Tony Stark next. 

     

    For growth now Tesla is going to be like a car trying to go faster. The First 100 MPH is easy but the next comes at x to the third power and the next 100 MPH is x to the sixth power. Unlike his rivals he has nothing else paying the bills but brain washed investors and risk taking speculators that will grow tires at some point if they do not see a return. If they do not get this return they will bail fast to make their own return. 

     

    Look for free superchargers to go away and free over the air updates to vanish. I expect they will sell packages with the cars to where you can get them for free if you pay up front. Tesla may be different in some ways but Options are still the place all makers including Tesla make money. 

     

    The key to the Superchargers is they are more plentiful than any other charging system. If you plan to travel away from home they are one way to get there. Other wise between the oceans there are few other options and will be few moving forward for a good while as so little investment is going on in charging stations in most areas. In Ohio there are very few options and we are one of the most auto populated areas in the country. There are just not enough cars to make it a good investment yet as you will have to ride out the time till they become more common. Also you have to pray that there would be no other breakthroughs that may move the auto in another direction. 

     

    Better investment in the cars is only half the battle the other in going to be the infrastructure. Musk was doing well to start this but it has slowed as his money was going else where in Tesla. If you are on the west coast you are golden in most areas but else where no so much. Local use is fine but trips are out for many especially in many areas where there is no plug in's. 

     

    I think this will help with GM and the Bolt as it is mostly considered a commuter car. Also I am sure they will offer charging at all their dealers like they have with the Volt. Not a pure solution but a good use of too many dealers. 

    Edited by hyperv6
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    In the history of oil and gasoline...

     

    When was it ever "free" for ANYBODY, ANYWHERE on the PLANET to fill up for home heating or as automobile fuel?

     

    A dozen or so of car dealerships in the Montreal area spanning different manufactures from  GM to Mercedes Benz(yes even Mercedes) all have had special offers in offering free gas for a year on a purchase of a new car the last couple years, but other than that....when was oil and gasoline offered for free for a good amount of time from a manufacturer or home builder ever?

     

    We could say that Tesla Model S owners actually did pay for that in the price of the car....because nothing in life is free.

     

    NO SHYTE!!!!!

     

    "Nothing in life is free" is such a general statement it aint even funny!!!!

    Even in death....I should know....I just finished with all that red tape in burying my mom...and although I knew about it before....a just got reacquainted with the fact that death is big business....oh....and I still have to file her taxes next year too for the 2 months she was alive in 2016....so as we were saying...

     

    Nothing in life is free....

     

    Tesla still has the electricity  bills to pay from the electricity service providers that provide the electricity...because we sure as hell know the electricity service providers arent giving the electricity they produce for free as that production also costs money...   

    Tesla is bleeding money with the infrastructure they are building and  with the electricity they are providing....either in battery production form  or supercharging form....

     

    So....we whine that Tesla is losing money...

    and we whine beause Tesla is gonna charge for usage....as it should....

     

    Boy...Tesla could never win with you folk....

     

     

    PS: To think that a product or service is actually free....no cost or no charge...is naive...

    Somewhere down the line...somebody is fitting the bill...somehow....

     

    That Model S owners continue recharging without the hassles of pay as you play is PHENOMENAL...

    It will not last...

     

    Another general statement:

     

    NOTHING LASTS FOREVER!!!

     

    To think otherwise...is also naive....

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    Keep in mind also. Electricity has gone up a lot in last 8 years or so. For fueling a car it is still 'cheap' but once electrics take more hold, now the price of your electricity will go up at break neck rates. Over time the goal will be to test consumers limits for how much they can or will pay to fuel their cars. Elec prices will rise so that any price advantage for car fuel vs gas will minimize or go away. And all the extra demand means you'll get stuck paying those astronomical rates to plug in things at home then too.

    It's still cheap now. Enjoy it while

    It lasts. Like anything people 'need' with controlled distribution it will skyrocket and go through the roof since you don't buy free market electricity.

    Edited by regfootball
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    Supercharging was never "free".  It was included with the price of the Model S. Keep in mind that early base model Model-S did not have access to supercharging either, you had to pay a $2,500 upgrade fee to either upgrade your base Model-S or pay for the more expensive trim-line to the tune of $15k or more. 

     

    Most Supercharger stations have solar generation, so the cost of the actual electric commodity is really cheap to Tesla. (They sell electricity the utility when cars aren't charging, they buy electricity from the utility at night).

     

    Even still, at household rates, it costs about a penny a mile to "fill up" a Tesla.  At those rates, would cost Tesla about $2.60 per fill-up if a P90D rolls in with 0 miles left of range. A 60KW car (range = 208 miles) with the $2,500 Supercharger upgrade would cost Tesla about $2.08 to fill from zero.  That means a 60KW Model-S owner would have to visit the supercharger 1,202 times, filling up from zero each and every time, before Tesla was out of the money on the electricity cost.  Mind you, that's at household rates which Tesla probably pays less than.

     

    The big cost to Tesla is in the building of the supercharger stations... but once those are amortized out, the remaining upkeep and electricity costs are minimal. 

     

    Assuming the Model-3  (Why isn't it the Model-4 btw? Don't we count the roadster?) is a 60KW car, they could charge $5 to fill it up at a super charger station and it would be profitable for them.

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    Keep in mind also. Electricity has gone up a lot in last 8 years or so. For fueling a car it is still 'cheap' but once electrics take more hold, now the price of your electricity will go up at break neck rates. Over time the goal will be to test consumers limits for how much they can or will pay to fuel their cars. Elec prices will rise so that any price advantage for car fuel vs gas will minimize or go away. And all the extra demand means you'll get stuck paying those astronomical rates to plug in things at home then too.

    It's still cheap now. Enjoy it while

    It lasts. Like anything people 'need' with controlled distribution it will skyrocket and go through the roof since you don't buy free market electricity.

     

    False - Your local utility may have raised rates on you, but on average, the price of electricity has gone up 5 cents a kWh since 2001. (7c/kWh in 2001, 12c/kWh 2016).  That's a third of a penny per kWh per year over 15 years..... not exactly soaring rates.

     

    Half the states have free(er) market electricity. There are over 250 energy companies operating and competing in Texas.  In just my zip code I have 91 different energy plans available to me through a multitude of different companies.  My current plan is a 100% wind generation supplier who is cheaper than coal.

     

    If you don't have a competitive energy market in your state, write your state representatives. 

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    Washington State only has PSE or Puget Sound Energy for the state supplying electricity and I am fine with that as is the bulk of the state. WHY you ask, because we have some of the cheapest if not cheapest electricity in the nation. All our power is Hydro, Wind and Solar created. 

     

    Total cost ranks us as 50th in the nation as a total cost today in 2016 per kWh is now 8.53 cents.

     

    Comparisons of years past:

     

    2016 - 8.53 cents per kWh

    2014 - 7.15

    2012 - 6.94

    2010 - 6.66

    2008 - 6.55

    2006 - 6.14

    2004 - 5.80

    2002 - 5.88

    2000 - 4.41

    1998 - 4.03

     

    I you want to see your own state historical trend, check here as I found NE keeps it simple and easy to read all the reports comparing every state since 1998.

     

    http://www.neo.ne.gov/statshtml/204_archive.htm 

     

    Yes I choose to jump every 2 years on the rates, but as you can see except in 2002 when it jumped up before falling back and this was to pay for dismantling / retiring the loan nuclear reactor they had here in washington.

     

    Based on 1200 miles a month driving a BOLT, my cost will be $28 dollars a month to fuel the BOLT. This along with a number of other benefits is why my wife told me she wants the BOLT when it comes out this fall.

     

    Even if they double the electric rate, this will still be a huge savings compared to the roughly $400 a month I pay for petrol for my Trailblazer SS that she drives daily.

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    "Doubling of electric rates" sounds like a lot... but it really isn't when you consider that rather minuscule increase is over 15 years.   I'll also note that those rates probably don't include delivery, which is a separate charge.

     

    1000kwH of electricity would cost you $40.30 in generation in 2000 and $85.30 today. It works out to be a yearly increase of $33.75 per year over 16 years.  I just can't get excited about that.   If only everything else increased in price at such a slow pace. 

     

    So add an electric car to the household.. most people report their electric bill increasing by $25 to $35 a month, but their gasoline bills plummet, sometimes to zero. Friends of mine, one of whom is an Editor at Cars.com, are on their second Volt lease. They buy gas every three months and reported an electric bill increase of $30 a month.  They traded in an old Pathfinder that was costing them $400 a month just to fuel.  

     

    It was simple math for them.  Volt Lease + Electricity Bill Increase < Pathfinder Fuel costs.

     

    Even if electricity rates doubled again... not over 15 years, but next year.... you're looking at $60 a month to run an EV.   The math still works. 

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    Is electric a traded and marketed commodity? Yes

    The supply and demand controls the price? Yes 

     

    The more we move to all electric means will drive up demand? Yes

     

    The supply is growing at a slower rate than demand? Yes. 

     

    What happens when demand out strips supply prices go up. 

    Just as the oil markets were created in the 70's and oil became a traded commodity we will see similar actions with electric moving forward. It will matter little where it comes from as market will determine the cost. Electric companies buy and sell electric all the time. 

     

    Just as oil America uses little from the middle east as only a couple east coast states use oil from the opec countries. But price of the market is driven buy all markets and the demands and supplies of oil globally. 

    Electric is this way now but to a smaller degree. You add more and more demand on the market and slow growth of supply the prices will continue to rise no matter if you get it from coal, hydro, nuke, sun or wind. 

     

    Drew they may tell you all of yours is wind driven but it is the same crap in the line everyone else is getting. As you know the line to your house is not directly connected to a wind mill. You may be paying a supplier that makes their power that way but yours may be coming from a coal plant on the Ohio River just as all your neighbors do. 

     

    The free market for energy is a two edged sword. You may get by on cheaper energy but you also run the real risk of suppliers controlling the markets globally and raising rates for everyone. 

    I really expect in the end there is not going to be any cheap energy utopia as there is too much money to be made globally. Also add in the power factor as the countries with power will hold global dominance. The ones to have large cheap supplies will be able to make things cheaper and sell it to those of us who have regulated ourselves out of the market. 

     

    The redistribution of wealth is all very real and green energy is taking down the old players as others like India and China are taking full advantage of now regulating themselves. 

    This is a very big geo political topic that is much more than could be covered here. 

    The long and the short of it. I do not expect ownership of an electric car in the long run to save me much money in the future. Nothing is free or cheap anymore and it will only get worse. We used to have free TV gone, Free Radio now they have ways to charge you for that. Even free air to fill your tires is now more a memory. 

     

    Things will continue to improve our lives but there will always be a larger price tag along with it. 

     

    Hell I just bought a new $3,000 fridge but it is so efficient that the new models will not last 10-15 years anymore. The damn thing will do just about anything you want but again a price to pay is no cheaper in the long run over my nearly 40 year old unit that is still working fine. I plan to keep it as you just can't buy them like that anymore as it works great but just does not match the new kitchen we are putting in. 

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    Electricity in Washington state is heavily regulated and increases are only allowed under mandated voting by a board in our capital. One reason probably that our rates have stayed so low but also we do have an abundance of the 3 natural green energies that helps to keep things low and a statewide attitude of doing everything green.

     

    In washington state you also have to have Garbage, yard/food waste and recycling pickup weekly. As such all of waste management trucks are CNG here.

     

    Just looked at my most current BI-Monthly PUD bill from PSE. I used 1788 KWH at a rate of .09437 per KWH which came out to $168.73 plus the tax of $10.12 for a bill of $178.85 for 2 months or $89.425 per month. So if I get a BOLT and add the $28 per month to my electric bill but stop spending $400 a month on fuel even with the car payment and insurance, I still come out ahead.

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    Yup. With proper incentives to go net energy neutral or positive - you know, you don't need to ever upgrade your equipment for a long time, because vehicles and appliances will only get more efficient w/ energy.

     

    A distributed, renewable energy source is very good long term. Even if it's expensive at first. Solar is getting better every year.

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    Keep in mind also. Electricity has gone up a lot in last 8 years or so. For fueling a car it is still 'cheap' but once electrics take more hold, now the price of your electricity will go up at break neck rates. Over time the goal will be to test consumers limits for how much they can or will pay to fuel their cars. Elec prices will rise so that any price advantage for car fuel vs gas will minimize or go away. And all the extra demand means you'll get stuck paying those astronomical rates to plug in things at home then too.

    It's still cheap now. Enjoy it while

    It lasts. Like anything people 'need' with controlled distribution it will skyrocket and go through the roof since you don't buy free market electricity.

     

    False - Your local utility may have raised rates on you, but on average, the price of electricity has gone up 5 cents a kWh since 2001. (7c/kWh in 2001, 12c/kWh 2016).  That's a third of a penny per kWh per year over 15 years..... not exactly soaring rates.

     

    Half the states have free(er) market electricity. There are over 250 energy companies operating and competing in Texas.  In just my zip code I have 91 different energy plans available to me through a multitude of different companies.  My current plan is a 100% wind generation supplier who is cheaper than coal.

     

    If you don't have a competitive energy market in your state, write your state representatives. 

     

    Minnesota.  so, no, its not been fair.  My utility is a city utility.  I have no idea where they are getting their power from, but i have only one choice from where to get it.  City has a monopoly on me and renewable energy legislation and such drove up electric prices more than the national average.

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    Is electric a traded and marketed commodity? Yes

    The supply and demand controls the price? Yes 

     

    The more we move to all electric means will drive up demand? Yes

     

    The supply is growing at a slower rate than demand? Yes. 

     

    What happens when demand out strips supply prices go up. 

    Just as the oil markets were created in the 70's and oil became a traded commodity we will see similar actions with electric moving forward. It will matter little where it comes from as market will determine the cost. Electric companies buy and sell electric all the time. 

     

    Just as oil America uses little from the middle east as only a couple east coast states use oil from the opec countries. But price of the market is driven buy all markets and the demands and supplies of oil globally. 

    Electric is this way now but to a smaller degree. You add more and more demand on the market and slow growth of supply the prices will continue to rise no matter if you get it from coal, hydro, nuke, sun or wind. 

     

    Drew they may tell you all of yours is wind driven but it is the same crap in the line everyone else is getting. As you know the line to your house is not directly connected to a wind mill. You may be paying a supplier that makes their power that way but yours may be coming from a coal plant on the Ohio River just as all your neighbors do. 

     

    The free market for energy is a two edged sword. You may get by on cheaper energy but you also run the real risk of suppliers controlling the markets globally and raising rates for everyone. 

    I really expect in the end there is not going to be any cheap energy utopia as there is too much money to be made globally. Also add in the power factor as the countries with power will hold global dominance. The ones to have large cheap supplies will be able to make things cheaper and sell it to those of us who have regulated ourselves out of the market. 

     

    The redistribution of wealth is all very real and green energy is taking down the old players as others like India and China are taking full advantage of now regulating themselves. 

    This is a very big geo political topic that is much more than could be covered here. 

    The long and the short of it. I do not expect ownership of an electric car in the long run to save me much money in the future. Nothing is free or cheap anymore and it will only get worse. We used to have free TV gone, Free Radio now they have ways to charge you for that. Even free air to fill your tires is now more a memory. 

     

    Things will continue to improve our lives but there will always be a larger price tag along with it. 

     

    Hell I just bought a new $3,000 fridge but it is so efficient that the new models will not last 10-15 years anymore. The damn thing will do just about anything you want but again a price to pay is no cheaper in the long run over my nearly 40 year old unit that is still working fine. I plan to keep it as you just can't buy them like that anymore as it works great but just does not match the new kitchen we are putting in. 

    I had to LOL.  TV aint free.....we pay for cable.  (and netflix and hulu which we don't use much), radio ain't free.....I have XM in both vehicles.......LOL

     

    I test drove a 2017 Volt today I'll write that up, so its interesting to talk real numbers of cost to run.  

     

    My take is on this the ominous take though.  The current paradigm is that 'the man' gets a certain percent of your net income every month for gasoline.  Every person is different, and gas prices fluctuate, but for the sake of argument lets say a lot of people spend 200 to 400 bucks a month on gas when its like 3 bucks or more a gallon.  Take that one step further and for some people that could be 5-10% of their monthly net income goes for gasoline.

     

    RIGHT NOW, electric may not come close to that, but THE MAN will find a way to cut into your wallet the same percent over time.  Demand for electric will go up, and a combination of real costs needed to pay for increased power generation will be one thing, but pure common greed of charging more for something everyone 'needs' will push that price up more.  It's basically going to come down to pushing the limits of everyones wallet, they will push the price of the power as high as they can because they know people can bear it now.  Somehow over time, TCO will morph out to be the same.  Maybe the vehicle will cost more, maybe the insurance will, maybe the fuel will.  But i tend to agree with hyper, i don't look to much in the way of the savings argument over time.  So enjoy the cheap running costs for maybe what, 10 years or so.  Once we are all latched to the outlet, the savings will become less real. 

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    If govts are rational they will charge a tax based on miles driven. it's really the only other fair alternative to gasoline consumed. As vehicles get away from gas or diesel, then it's really the only fair way.

     

    Charging more for electricity because of cars would be dumb. Because electricity isn't tied to one specific use.

     

    Eventually solar will be a very feasible for many people. It already is for people who can take the immediate hit to the wallet, but are still middle-class with modest lifestyle.

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    • By Drew Dowdell
      The Tesla Model 3 nearly broke into the top 10 best selling vehicles in Europe for September 2019, missing the mark by just 217 units.  Overall, sales growth in the EU is strong with 14 markets reporting positive numbers.  Germany came in at 9.1 percent and Italy came in at 6.5 percent.  Battery electric vehicles were up sharply, increasing 119 percent, of which Tesla controlled nearly 50% of that number.  Total Tesla registrations were 19,500 out of the 40,700 BEVs registered.  That put the Tesla Model 3 as the best selling BEV in Europe. 
      For September, the Volkwagen Golf was the best selling vehicle in Europe with 32,398 units registered. 
      Tesla shares jumped 18 percent yesterday after a surprise profit for Q3 of $1.86 per share, up from an expected loss of 42 cents per share. 

      View full article
    • By Drew Dowdell
      The Tesla Model 3 nearly broke into the top 10 best selling vehicles in Europe for September 2019, missing the mark by just 217 units.  Overall, sales growth in the EU is strong with 14 markets reporting positive numbers.  Germany came in at 9.1 percent and Italy came in at 6.5 percent.  Battery electric vehicles were up sharply, increasing 119 percent, of which Tesla controlled nearly 50% of that number.  Total Tesla registrations were 19,500 out of the 40,700 BEVs registered.  That put the Tesla Model 3 as the best selling BEV in Europe. 
      For September, the Volkwagen Golf was the best selling vehicle in Europe with 32,398 units registered. 
      Tesla shares jumped 18 percent yesterday after a surprise profit for Q3 of $1.86 per share, up from an expected loss of 42 cents per share. 
    • By Anthony Fongaro
      EV-curious. That’s what I would call myself. Someone that is interested in EVs but just hasn’t found the right one. There are many aspects of an EV that is appealing to me. Instant torque, quick acceleration, the ability to charge at your house or apartment, and the continuation of creating semi-autonomous driving. It’s all so exciting! I’m ready to go out and trade in my 2016 Volkswagen GTI for one now! Or am I? Let’s take a quick look at a small field of electric vehicles, starting with the brand new 2020 Porsche Taycan.
      The release of the 2020 Porsche Taycan is a feat in and of itself. The car itself is downright sexy, is has a handsome interior, and performance that is pure Porsche. Over 700 HP for the Turbo S model is impressive. It also costs what you would expect an electric super-Porsche would be since the range topping Taycans are coming out first. These are the Turbo and Turbo S which cost over $150,000. After these come onto the market, less expensive and less powerful versions will come. Would this be the car that I will buy? Sure, once I get that CMO position at a major company. This is a dream electric car, but not one that I would consider just yet. 
      What about an attainable electric car? There are a few on the market that cover the bases. Vehicles like the Hyundai Kona Electric, Chevy Bolt, Nissan Leaf, and others have good to respectable range, decent features, and are not the most expensive vehicles. Average prices of $40,000-$45,000 is a bit steep, but electric cars usually command a premium over gasoline vehicles. They also have good driving aids such as blind spot monitoring and adaptive cruise control, something that my current car has and is top priority for me. They’re all very good cars but with flaws such as build quality and designs that keep me from considering one. My problem is simple: performance. Electric cars have instant torque at 0 RPM and can be extremely fast. These EVs just don’t cut the mustard for me since they are more about range than blistering speed. For around $45,000, I can get a gas-powered car such as a Genesis G70 3.3T that is faster, has better range, and the safety features I want. Let’s continue from good electric vehicles to “the best”.
      Right now, you are probably thinking: “Anthony, you are forgetting the king of electric vehicles. They are synonymous with electric cars and have a huge cult following.” Guess who that is? Yes, that is of course Tesla. You can’t write about electric cars without talking about Tesla. They are a very S 3 X Y R brand indeed. The Model S introduced expensive but seriously quick electric vehicles. The X brought us an odd but much-needed crossover. The 3 is the bread-and-butter maker with a starting price around $40,000, and acceleration that beats almost all vehicles in its class. The Y hasn’t come out yet but is a crossover version of the 3, and the Roadster is a $250,000 supercar. Even though there are three models currently available, I will focus on the Model 3 Performance since that is the one I am most interested in.
      There is a lot to like about the Model 3 Performance. It has “performance” in its name and with 450 HP, it is one of the quickest sedans I’ve ever driven. The instant torque from the motors is intoxicating and it handles well for a heavy vehicle. Does it tick all the boxes to convert to a Tesla-fanatic? No. Why? The interior. I am not a fan of controlling absolutely everything with a touchscreen and not having my speedometer in front of me.
      The Model 3 Performance can have semi-autonomous driving, but it is a $7,000 option. Tesla’s Autopilot driver-assist system is standard and is regarded to be one of the best, if not the best driver-assist system. Tesla has sold over 250,000 Model 3 vehicles and it is a genuinely amazing feat for a young company. The range is good at over 310 miles. Pricing starts at $55,000 and is fully-loaded around $64,000. If you are okay with the minimal interior and styling, get yourself a Model 3. I personally am not a fan of either of those, so onward we go.
      This brings me to a car I am waiting for: The Polestar 2 fastback. Polestar used to be a sub-division of Volvo, like AMG is to Mercedes-Benz. You can still get Polestar-tune Volvos, but Polestar has branched out into their own brand. The Polestar 2 is their first all-electric car. It has over 250 miles of range, 400 HP, and most import to me, gauges that are straight in front of the driver. The design is bold yet looks like an even more modern version of a Volvo. Since Polestar is a sporty company, the performance upgrades include upgraded shocks, brakes, and bigger wheels with Swedish gold seat belts. You get this package mainly for the gold seat belts. Is it pricey at over $60,000? Yes, but it feels justified for the 408 hp and range of 275 miles. 0-60 is said to be around 4.7 seconds but I suspect it will be lower. Will they sell Tesla Model 3 numbers of them? I highly doubt it since they area new brand, but it should be a great competitor to the Tesla Model 3.
      I like the concept of electric vehicles. I know that one day, there will be one charging at my house. Am I ready for an electric car? Yes. Is there any on the market that jumps out at me and gives me the satisfaction I have for my current car at a reasonable price of around $40,000 new? No.
      Do not get me wrong; there are electric cars that make sense for a multitude of situations. Range and charging are getting better, more features are getting added, and manufacturers are creating electric-only ranges of vehicles that will bring down the costs of more performance-oriented vehicles. I can go in-depth about certain electric cars in a future article. For now, I think I will keep my car and wait until something really catches my eye. That, or wait a few years and hope the Porsche Taycan depreciates enough that I can buy one.
       

      View full article
    • By Anthony Fongaro
      EV-curious. That’s what I would call myself. Someone that is interested in EVs but just hasn’t found the right one. There are many aspects of an EV that is appealing to me. Instant torque, quick acceleration, the ability to charge at your house or apartment, and the continuation of creating semi-autonomous driving. It’s all so exciting! I’m ready to go out and trade in my 2016 Volkswagen GTI for one now! Or am I? Let’s take a quick look at a small field of electric vehicles, starting with the brand new 2020 Porsche Taycan.
      The release of the 2020 Porsche Taycan is a feat in and of itself. The car itself is downright sexy, is has a handsome interior, and performance that is pure Porsche. Over 700 HP for the Turbo S model is impressive. It also costs what you would expect an electric super-Porsche would be since the range topping Taycans are coming out first. These are the Turbo and Turbo S which cost over $150,000. After these come onto the market, less expensive and less powerful versions will come. Would this be the car that I will buy? Sure, once I get that CMO position at a major company. This is a dream electric car, but not one that I would consider just yet. 
      What about an attainable electric car? There are a few on the market that cover the bases. Vehicles like the Hyundai Kona Electric, Chevy Bolt, Nissan Leaf, and others have good to respectable range, decent features, and are not the most expensive vehicles. Average prices of $40,000-$45,000 is a bit steep, but electric cars usually command a premium over gasoline vehicles. They also have good driving aids such as blind spot monitoring and adaptive cruise control, something that my current car has and is top priority for me. They’re all very good cars but with flaws such as build quality and designs that keep me from considering one. My problem is simple: performance. Electric cars have instant torque at 0 RPM and can be extremely fast. These EVs just don’t cut the mustard for me since they are more about range than blistering speed. For around $45,000, I can get a gas-powered car such as a Genesis G70 3.3T that is faster, has better range, and the safety features I want. Let’s continue from good electric vehicles to “the best”.
      Right now, you are probably thinking: “Anthony, you are forgetting the king of electric vehicles. They are synonymous with electric cars and have a huge cult following.” Guess who that is? Yes, that is of course Tesla. You can’t write about electric cars without talking about Tesla. They are a very S 3 X Y R brand indeed. The Model S introduced expensive but seriously quick electric vehicles. The X brought us an odd but much-needed crossover. The 3 is the bread-and-butter maker with a starting price around $40,000, and acceleration that beats almost all vehicles in its class. The Y hasn’t come out yet but is a crossover version of the 3, and the Roadster is a $250,000 supercar. Even though there are three models currently available, I will focus on the Model 3 Performance since that is the one I am most interested in.
      There is a lot to like about the Model 3 Performance. It has “performance” in its name and with 450 HP, it is one of the quickest sedans I’ve ever driven. The instant torque from the motors is intoxicating and it handles well for a heavy vehicle. Does it tick all the boxes to convert to a Tesla-fanatic? No. Why? The interior. I am not a fan of controlling absolutely everything with a touchscreen and not having my speedometer in front of me.
      The Model 3 Performance can have semi-autonomous driving, but it is a $7,000 option. Tesla’s Autopilot driver-assist system is standard and is regarded to be one of the best, if not the best driver-assist system. Tesla has sold over 250,000 Model 3 vehicles and it is a genuinely amazing feat for a young company. The range is good at over 310 miles. Pricing starts at $55,000 and is fully-loaded around $64,000. If you are okay with the minimal interior and styling, get yourself a Model 3. I personally am not a fan of either of those, so onward we go.
      This brings me to a car I am waiting for: The Polestar 2 fastback. Polestar used to be a sub-division of Volvo, like AMG is to Mercedes-Benz. You can still get Polestar-tune Volvos, but Polestar has branched out into their own brand. The Polestar 2 is their first all-electric car. It has over 250 miles of range, 400 HP, and most import to me, gauges that are straight in front of the driver. The design is bold yet looks like an even more modern version of a Volvo. Since Polestar is a sporty company, the performance upgrades include upgraded shocks, brakes, and bigger wheels with Swedish gold seat belts. You get this package mainly for the gold seat belts. Is it pricey at over $60,000? Yes, but it feels justified for the 408 hp and range of 275 miles. 0-60 is said to be around 4.7 seconds but I suspect it will be lower. Will they sell Tesla Model 3 numbers of them? I highly doubt it since they area new brand, but it should be a great competitor to the Tesla Model 3.
      I like the concept of electric vehicles. I know that one day, there will be one charging at my house. Am I ready for an electric car? Yes. Is there any on the market that jumps out at me and gives me the satisfaction I have for my current car at a reasonable price of around $40,000 new? No.
      Do not get me wrong; there are electric cars that make sense for a multitude of situations. Range and charging are getting better, more features are getting added, and manufacturers are creating electric-only ranges of vehicles that will bring down the costs of more performance-oriented vehicles. I can go in-depth about certain electric cars in a future article. For now, I think I will keep my car and wait until something really catches my eye. That, or wait a few years and hope the Porsche Taycan depreciates enough that I can buy one.
       
  • Posts

    • My friend who will be my riding bud has an older Ducati Streetfighter... he likes it but he complains that getting anything done to it is expensive.  I'm sure I'm going to be in the same boat with a BMW, but at least being aircooled, shaft drive, boxer the amount of maintenance it will need is lower.  Of your list, I like the Triumph the best, but the Yamaha would probably be lowest cost of ownership.  I looked at the Yamaha XSR900 very early on in my search (years ago) because it reminded me of my dual-sport I had in my teens, but it was uncomfortably too tall for me. 
    • Prices going up. Economy not fully recovered. Supply shortages. Money printer going brrrr... I think of the following words. Stagflation... And  A word that starts with 'C' and ends with 'm'. In Canada - (no incentives for people to work below a certain income level, reducing productivity and making costs go up). Oops I might be derailing thread. Please no one entertain the kind of word I was thinking. Yeah lumber prices are bad. I heard Canada (where I live) might be limiting exports due to the cancellations of keystone too. Not sure if true or not. As for Tesla cars. I don't think any car maker could sell those cheap Wuling things yet in NA. I don't see the price points ever going lower, maybe some more features for the money down the line. And Tesla is about to be inundated with competition. I think their position is not nearly as strong as when the Model Y came out. Paper tiger maybe.
    • Supply down + Demand Up = higher prices.... not that hard. Prices for nearly everything are going up. It has nothing to do with BEVs.  It has to do with everything from lumber to microchips being in short supply. Also... prices for used and new gasoline powered vehicles is going up too, so at worst, BEVs are just keeping pace with the industry as a whole. Furthermore, no one gave a date as to when the cost of BEVs would dip below ICEs, so calling that misinformation is substantially premature.  The big, experienced manufacturers like GM and MB have been awoken like a sleeping dragon and the new BEV platforms coming from them are going to be serious entries, not just an electric motor thrown in one of their gasser models with a bunch of laptop batteries in the trunk. As of about 3 years ago, they all started taking BEVs seriously. There will be economies of scale as the cells of a Silverado don't need to be any different in composition than the cells in a Bolt... the only difference will be quantity.  GM will no longer need to build 197 different powertrain combinations, it will be reduced to 10 (if memory serves, it's somewhere in that ballpark of a delta in powertrains). There will no longer be a need for complex 10-speed transmissions. No AWD systems. No exhaust systems. There won't be complex electro-mechanical systems to turn cylinders on and off while driving. There won't be turbo-chargers. There won't be those electronic shutters that close a grille at speed. All of that stuff listed that needs to be engineered and re-engineered every 5 - 7 years will go away. None of that is in place today and no one claimed it would be in place by today, but you have the combined industrial might of GM, Ford, BMW, Mercedes, VW, Hyundai, Telsa, Panasonic, Samsung, LG, and others working on it.
    • On a side note, all of my closest friends recently bought bikes either this year or last year and it REALLY has given me the itch. I just don't have a garage for one yet and couldn't justify spending the money when we have a home to finish and garage to build.. Two of them have some Harley of sorts and two of them have Indians, none of them are my style or anywhere near what I would want to ride. I'm a HUGE fan of the naked sporty bikes.  Something like a Monster 796,  Triumph Street Triple 675, Yamaha MT-09, would be perfect for me
    • ^ Not sure it's that specific; on the Silverado/Sierra, the active safety features package is optional, and costs $890. I do think electronics in general are responsible for most of the recent price escalations. I can easily see calling claims of 'BE's are going to cost the same or less than ICs' as "misinformation".   
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