'08 CTS - What about under the hood?

[Guest TRANS AMster]

From what I have heard it may go like this:

3.0L V6 240hp (based on 2.8?)

3.6L V6 300hp (DI)

V-6.2L supercharged LS9 V8, or 7.0L LS7 V8 500+hp

Ultra V8 coming in 2009-10???

[97regalGS]

From what I have heard it may go like this:

3.0L V6 240hp (based on 2.8?)

3.6L V6 300hp (DI)

V-6.2L supercharged LS9 V8, or 7.0L LS7 V8 500+hp

Ultra V8 coming in 2009-10???

212959[/snapback]

sounds reasonable. except for the ultra V8 part.

[jasaero]

From what I have heard it may go like this:

3.0L V6 240hp (based on 2.8?)

3.6L V6 300hp (DI)

V-6.2L supercharged LS9 V8, or 7.0L LS7 V8 500+hp

Ultra V8 coming in 2009-10???

212959[/snapback]

I agree with this also, except for maybe the Ultra V8 part. Guess it is possible such a monster could be in the works, but even if so I would guess that would be farther down the road? Maybe not, but haven't heard any official sounding leaks of such an engine like we have with LS9. I do think such an engine is needed for the STS and STS-V. I think the CTS will do fine with the first 3 though. Doubt a new STS or STS-V will be out before the 2010 model year anyhow, so you could be onto something. I've also heard that most all of the higher output LS? engine might get 3 valves per can and FI to pass future EPA regs. That would cool in some respects as it would allow for some pretty simple mods to jack power up. A turbo setup would be cooler in that respect, but a SC is also cool.

[aldw]

The sooner the Ultra V8 comes, the better, and hopefully with DI to boot.

[ZL-1]

Ultra V8 coming in 2009-10???

212959[/snapback]

A mid-level V8 would be nice, but what role would the STS play in the lineup then? Edited November 30, 2006 by ZL-1

[jasaero]

The sooner the Ultra V8 comes, the better, and hopefully with DI to boot.

213543[/snapback]

Not sure I agree with this all together. Pretty sure whatever this ULTRA V8 is, one thing it won't be is small and light. The N* could be revised to expand it's VVT capabilities and add DI. If they could get it upto 4.7 or 4.8L also, I think it could then get really close to 400hp pretty easy in the NA form. That is more than competitive in that class. To me the ultra V8 is only needed once Caddy is ready to sell models with trim levels in the $100K+ range that most of Germany's V12's currently sit. Really right now only MB has what would amount to the Ultra V8 anyhow and that engine is only used in the AMG cars, which are low volume. The N* with DI and maybe a bump in displacement would take any volume DOHC V8 out there. Think the MB 5.5L only makes like 380hp. A 4.7L N* with DI would probably right in that same range. Until the next gen STS-V is needing an engine I see no really good place for this rumoured ultra V8.

[quantum110]

With proper head work the 4.6l is more than capable of 400hp...take a look at some of the N*'s used in Sandrails.

With an aftermarket computer the VVT engines produce ~360hp, without head work.

[aldw]

Not sure I agree with this all together.  Pretty sure whatever this ULTRA V8 is, one thing it won't be is small and light.  The N* could be revised to expand it's VVT capabilities and add DI.  If they could get it upto 4.7 or 4.8L also, I think it could then get really close to 400hp pretty easy in the NA form.  That is more than competitive in that class.  To me the ultra V8 is only needed once Caddy is ready to sell models with trim levels in the $100K+ range that most of Germany's V12's currently sit.  Really right now only MB has what would amount to the Ultra V8 anyhow and that engine is only used in the AMG cars, which are low volume.  The N* with DI and maybe a bump in displacement would take any volume DOHC V8 out there.  Think the MB 5.5L only makes like 380hp.  A 4.7L N* with DI would probably right in that same range.  Until the next gen STS-V is needing an engine I see no really good place for this rumoured ultra V8.

213867[/snapback]

The Ultra V8 is more powerful in a smaller package than the N* and has DI, while the N* needs to be modified to have DI. The UltraV8 will be the full replacement of the N*, and a V-12 with DI will be available to deal with the German V12s.

[Paolino]

What exact concrete information do we know about the Ultra V8? I mean, I've heard a lot of rumor and speculation, but I don't know any absolute facts, like even an exact time it's going to debut.

[aldw]

What exact concrete information do we know about the Ultra V8?  I mean, I've heard a lot of rumor and speculation, but I don't know any absolute facts, like even an exact time it's going to debut.

223522[/snapback]

Min displacement: 4.7 L

Min HP: 350-380

DI, VVT et al included

Slightly smaller overall dimensions than N*

That's all I've heard thus far.

[CSpec]

I thought the Ultra V8 was cancelled in favor of a redesigned Northstar?

[91z4me]

I thought the Ultra V8 was cancelled in favor of a redesigned Northstar?

223586[/snapback]

Me too.

[dado]

Min displacement: 4.7 L

Min HP: 350-380

DI, VVT et al included

Slightly smaller overall dimensions than N*

That's all I've heard thus far.

223549[/snapback]

Is it true that head design is almost identical to new v6 with DI and displacement can be upgraded to about 5.5 l?

[bcs296]

I'll be interested to see how they manage to make it smaller in overall dimensions than the N*.

[aldw]

Is it true that head design is almost identical  to new v6 with DI and displacement can be upgraded to about 5.5 l?

223847[/snapback]

That's what I've heard also.

[dado]

The question is what is the next cts v series engine going to be? Ultra V8 with supercharger, or maybe some LS engine?. And is the next gen. STS-V going to have supercharged v8 ultra or maybe N.A. engine with bigger displacement.

[91z4me]

The question is what is the next cts v series engine going to be? Ultra V8 with supercharger, or maybe some LS engine?. And is the next gen. STS-V going to have supercharged v8 ultra or maybe N.A. engine with bigger displacement.

224105[/snapback]

People who have seen the next V said it will be supercharged, but will it be a 6.2 LS series V8 or an Ultra I have not seen that confirmed.

[turbo200]

I thought the redesigned Northstar would just be called Ultra V8. A few months back we were told that the Ultra V8 was canned.

Edited December 5, 2006 by turbo200

[dado]

I thought the redesigned Northstar would just be called Ultra V8. A few months back we were told that the Ultra V8 was canned.

224240[/snapback]

i've read that ultra v8 is completely new engine.

Edited December 5, 2006 by dado

[loki]

i've read that ultra v8 is completely new engine.

224257[/snapback]

it'd be real interesting if they used things from the XV8 design for this "ultra V8"... i know the X was OHV and the N* is OHC

[dado]

it'd be real interesting if they used things from the XV8 design for this "ultra V8"... i know the X was OHV and the N* is OHC

224287[/snapback]

well xv8 was engine with twin cam in block and this ultra V8 is supposed to be engine with double overhead cams (DOHC) so i don't think that they will use xv8 design. But i've read something about twin cam in block and new LS engines..there was even talk about 3 valve head.

[jasaero]

it'd be real interesting if they used things from the XV8 design for this "ultra V8"... i know the X was OHV and the N* is OHC

224287[/snapback]

I would become a huge fan of the Ultra V8 if it were infact a production version of the XV8. My guess though is that is HIGHLY unlikely. An engine of the XV8 design would probably have inferior NVH characteristics to the N* DOHC. EVERYTHING else about the engine would be superior, but in this premium sport luxury class NVH seems to be of extreme importance when it comes to engine selection. I do know though that GM has some very interesting patents as far as direct injection and engine of the XV8 design go. Basically everything about how the XV8 was designed is patented by GM. So they, at the very least, didn't want anyone to pilfer the 2 cam in block idea from them. Guess all will be revealed soon enough.

[dado]

I would become a huge fan of the Ultra V8 if it were infact a production version of the XV8.  My guess though is that is HIGHLY unlikely.  An engine of the XV8 design would probably have inferior NVH characteristics to the N* DOHC.  EVERYTHING else about the engine would be superior, but in this premium sport luxury class NVH seems to be of extreme importance when it comes to engine selection.  I do know though that GM has some very interesting patents as far as direct injection and engine of the XV8 design go.  Basically everything about how the XV8 was designed is patented by GM.  So they, at the very least, didn't want anyone to pilfer the 2 cam in block idea from them.  Guess all will be revealed soon enough.

224294[/snapback]

imagine LS engine with twin cam:D ..but i don't think we will see that engine in cts-v...if the next engine incts v will have supercharger and won't be a ultra v8 then is probably some sort of detune ls9..i don't think that ls9 will have twin cam in block or even a DI.

[91z4me]

well xv8 was engine with twin cam in block and this ultra V8 is supposed  to be engine with double overhead cams (DOHC) so i don't think that they will use xv8 design. But i've read something about twin cam in block and new LS engines..there was even talk about 3 valve head.

224289[/snapback]

The XV12 was a DOD, DI, DOHC 750 hp 7.5L V12. Make a V8 version of that and call that the Ultra and Caddy jumps WAY up on the world charts.

[loki]

The XV12 was a DOD, DI, DOHC 750 hp 7.5L V12.  Make a V8 version of that and call that the Ultra and Caddy jumps WAY up on the world charts.

224381[/snapback]

we talking displacements near the present N*? ... take away some HP/L for V8 vs. V12 and lets' say at least 400hp for around a 4.6L... YEAH!!! great starting spot!... 80 more hp than the current N*.

DADO--> i know... i was just bringing it up. the N* successor will be a OHC design 99.9999999% of what we "hear" ... just throwing in some other ideas!

[dado]

The XV12 was a DOD, DI, DOHC 750 hp 7.5L V12.  Make a V8 version of that and call that the Ultra and Caddy jumps WAY up on the world charts.

224381[/snapback]

Or just make V12 ...well we all know that next DOHC engine (except v6 with DI) will be V8 (ultra or Northstar 2)..when that engine is made they could further develop v12. Of course this engine won't be put in cts.

When n.g cts-v is supposed to come out?

[91z4me]

Or just make V12 ...well we all know that next DOHC engine (except v6 with DI) will be V8 (ultra or Northstar 2)..when that engine is made they could further develop v12. Of course this engine won't be put in cts.

When n.g cts-v is supposed to come out?

224472[/snapback]

NG CTS is 2008 model. V series should be 09 model.

[dado]

NG CTS is 2008 model.  V series should be 09 model.

224480[/snapback]

Then it could come with n.g DOHC v8 engine ..i think it should be ready by then. I presume there will be at least one model between v and 3.6 l v6...if 3.6 will have over 300 hp then v8 model (not v model) should at least have 350-360 hp.

[97regalGS]

Then it could come with n.g DOHC v8 engine ..i think it should be ready by then. I presume there will be at least one model between v and 3.6 l v6...if 3.6 will have over 300 hp then v8 model (not v model) should at least have 350-360 hp.

224488[/snapback]

that makes absolutely no sense to me. not the part of having an engine with hp rating between 300 and 500, but i don't think that there is any ultra V8 in development that will be to market in that time frame. (i fully expect CTS-V to use LS?)

and that's not based on any inside info, it just doesn't add up to me. the NS makes 320hp and was significantly re-worked for XLR and RWD. adding DI should take that to 350+ish. so explain the benefit of some other engine architecture?

does not compute.

[aldw]

that makes absolutely no sense to me.  not the part of having an engine with hp rating between 300 and 500, but i don't think that there is any ultra V8 in development that will be to market in that time frame. (i fully expect CTS-V to use LS?)

and that's not based on any inside info, it just doesn't add up to me.  the NS makes 320hp and was significantly re-worked for XLR and RWD.  adding DI should take that to 350+ish.  so explain the benefit of some other engine architecture?

does not compute.

224759[/snapback]

The new architecture makes use of HF engine components to speed development and increase standardization.

[dado]

As somebody said here(and other forums)..new engine should be lighter and smaller...you can't look engine just through engine hp and torque.

[97regalGS]

The new architecture makes use of HF engine components to speed development and increase standardization.

224836[/snapback]

that makes some sense

[thegriffon]

From what I have heard it may go like this:

3.0L V6 240hp (based on 2.8?)

3.6L V6 300hp (DI)

V-6.2L supercharged LS9 V8, or 7.0L LS7 V8 500+hp

Ultra V8 coming in 2009-10???

212959[/snapback]

The only 3.0 L V6 GM has in the works, if any, is a new turbodiesel to replace the current GM-Isuzu V6. Power would be right though.

[91z4me]

The only 3.0 L V6 GM has in the works, if any, is a new turbodiesel to replace the current GM-Isuzu V6. Power would be right though.

225124[/snapback]

So the 2.8 may get DI and be around 240, correct?

Also griff, do you know if GM is going to throw DI on the 2.8T that SAAB is using in the 9-3?

[ZL-1]

So the 2.8 may get DI and be around 240, correct?

225304[/snapback]

That smaller engine and the diesel would be important outside the US. I hope they make those available.