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Derek77

Popular Mechanics: Full-Size Truck Comparison

41 posts in this topic

Here is the running order:

1st: Nissan Titan SE

2nd: Toyota Tundra Crewmax Limited

3rd: Chevrolet Crew Cab LT2

4th: Ford F150 King Ranch

5th: Dodge Ram Laramie

To see why the Nissan Titan was 1st, you just need to look at what they had to say about it. Here's what they said:

The last time we compared full-sized pickups, in January 2004, the Titan won. Since then, every truck has been redesigned. No matter, the Titan retains its title. At the dragstrip, with 1000 pounds in the bed, the Titan crossed the quarter-mile mark two-hundredths of a second after the rocket-sled Tundra. Though the Tundra has 64 more horsepower, the Titan weighs less. It's the lightest truck here, which helped its fuel economy numbers.The Titan was midpack in all our handling test, even though it had the tallest tires with the most aggressive off-road biased tread. Our test Titan is the best equipped for going off-road; in fact, it was the best in the dirt and the only truck here to come with a pushbutton locking differential. The Titan also has the most useful bed of the group, with huge, movable tiedown cleats, a bed liner and a unique bedside lockbox. Inside, the Titan is roomy and comfortable, rivaling the limousine-like Tundra for rear legroom. THe only major strike against the Nissan is the use of hard and cheap-looking interior plastics. Nonetheless, each night every tester wanted to drive the Titan back to the hotel.

I'm sold, how about you. A nice midpacker.

On the Silverado, they said, "There's no complaint with the redesigned interiors....But once we settled into the supportive driver's seat, it was clear the cab wasn't noticeably roomier than the previous model's. They didn't like the transmission either. But they liked the way it drove; suspension and steering, towing abilities.

Anyways, there's more in the story, but it's a pretty lame write up. I'm not saying their are no faults on the new Silverado, but the Titan, winning their comparison?

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The Titan wasn't even the best truck when it came out, so any publication picking it over the Silverado, Tundra, or F-150 is very questionable.

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The Titan wasn't even the best truck when it came out, so any publication picking it over the Silverado, Tundra, or F-150 is very questionable.

When it came out it offered a strong powertrain, functional interior, and extremely innovative and useful bed. This holds true today. It's quality may not be all there, and its looks aren't by any means it's strong point, but deserves respect.

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about 18 months ago i was actually shopping pickups. i found the Titan to be inferior to the F-150. The F-150 was more refined and solid. The titan was noisy, had lots of driveline lash, and felt cheap. It didn't have all the power some think it does.

MEH.

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>>"When it came out it offered a strong powertrain, functional interior, and extremely innovative and useful bed. This holds true today. It's quality may not be all there, and its looks aren't by any means it's strong point, but deserves respect. "<<

Powertrain was only comparable, as was interior functionality. What exactly about the bed was "extremely innovative", because usefullness is only, again, comparable, not superior. Factor in lesser quality & reliability, and far less in the way of powertrain & configuration choices and you have an inferior competitor: not sure how lavish we should rightfully be with 'respect'.

Edited by balthazar

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And it has finally happened. The Big 3 can't even say that they are the best in that one segment anymore: full size trucks. The sad thing is they knew it was coming for years and they still couldn't manage to stay on top.

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And it has finally happened. The Big 3 can't even say that they are the best in that one segment anymore: full size trucks. The sad thing is they knew it was coming for years and they still couldn't manage to stay on top.

That's only if you base your opinion on this one review from Popular Mechanics, of all places. C&D picked the Silverado as the best truck in their recent issue, I'd take C&D's opinion over Popular Mechanics' opinion any day.

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Agreed - a cynical moment on my part, but I suppose I had high hopes of a situation where there would be no question whose truck is the best.

Admittedly, the Titan absolutely does NOT deserve to be anywhere near 1st place, however it is disheartening to see the Tundra ahead of the Silverado again (re: edmunds).

Just a result of the difference between GM's and Toyota's financial situations I guess.

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You need to base your opinion on actual experience. Go out there and test drive these vehicles and compare them yourself. Unfortunately, in an age where the media is struggling to maintain it's objectivity, we have the automobile magazines crapping all over those efforts with one sided articles and import-friendly opinions. No, I'm not saying that Toyota and Nissan's trucks aren't competitive or class-leading. They certainly did their homework and are producing some solid trucks but the hype that magazines like Motortrend, Automobile, and Popular Mechanics are giving the Japanese automakers is blatently biased that you wonder if GM or Ford will ever get a fair shake again. It's sad that objective journalism has gone down the crapper thanks to major media conglomerates that only worry about ad revenues.

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And it has finally happened. The Big 3 can't even say that they are the best in that one segment anymore: full size trucks. The sad thing is they knew it was coming for years and they still couldn't manage to stay on top.

Totally based on OPINION :pokeowned:

They are still on top in sales, but opinion varies.

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That's only if you base your opinion on this one review from Popular Mechanics, of all places. C&D picked the Silverado as the best truck in their recent issue, I'd take C&D's opinion over Popular Mechanics' opinion any day.

So long as the article is positive on GM products?

I have to chuckle at the inconsistency. How often is C&D dismissed here as an import-shilling rag?

I don't take issue with N* per se, just that this logical inconsistency (C&D is being 'fair' to the Silverado, but cruel to the Saturn placing 4th in a weak group of competitors.)

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I don't take issue with N* per se, just that this logical inconsistency (C&D is being 'fair' to the Silverado, but cruel to the Saturn placing 4th in a weak group of competitors.)

The problem many (including I) had with that Saturn piece was this specious 'GOTTA-HAVE-IT' score carrying so much weight in what was already a tight scoring. Its something that was poorly defined and sorely misplaced, especially in a test of midlevel family sedans.

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The problem many (including I) had with that Saturn piece was this specious 'GOTTA-HAVE-IT' score carrying so much weight in what was already a tight scoring. Its something that was poorly defined and sorely misplaced, especially in a test of midlevel family sedans.

yeah, cause the Camry is so totally "gotta-have-it"!

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You need to base your opinion on actual experience. Go out there and test drive these vehicles and compare them yourself. Unfortunately, in an age where the media is struggling to maintain it's objectivity, we have the automobile magazines crapping all over those efforts with one sided articles and import-friendly opinions. No, I'm not saying that Toyota and Nissan's trucks aren't competitive or class-leading. They certainly did their homework and are producing some solid trucks but the hype that magazines like Motortrend, Automobile, and Popular Mechanics are giving the Japanese automakers is blatently biased that you wonder if GM or Ford will ever get a fair shake again. It's sad that objective journalism has gone down the crapper thanks to major media conglomerates that only worry about ad revenues.

C'mon..

It's a conspiracy?

How about this theory: The domestics were so bad for so long that they are given no leeway on new product.

Or, the cost disadvantage of the domestic 2.5 is so great that the product cannot possibly be as good.

And, if it was the 'media conglomerates' influencing the content, why is it that almost every upstart website has the same or worse to say for most pre-05 domestic products?

It's just an excuse. Are the domestics getting better? Absolutely. Are they there yet? Not on your life.

The relentless competition in a 'mature' industry competing on a global scale with millions of cars worth of overcapacity results in some crazy swings and, unfortunately, has trapped the 2.5 in the bottom of the barrel, as it currently stands.

Look no further than Europe for what is happening here now. Although, ironically, the last european in the barrel (Fiat) looks a hell of a lot better than when they were in bed with GM. Coincidence?

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the last european in the barrel (Fiat) looks a hell of a lot better than when they were in bed with GM. Coincidence?

That wouldn have anything to do with all the money Fiat got from GM last year, now would it?

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That wouldn have anything to do with all the money Fiat got from GM last year, now would it?

exactly my point...Fiat was a failing company who was able to bamboozle the brightest economic minds at GM, bend them over with a rediculous buyout option and then extort the same geniuses into paying them to go away.

Incredibly, at the same time, the Fiat product developers were able to take the bones of GM's architectures and create (during a time of extreme duress) Fiats and Alfas that have led their renaissance. Sounds like an expertise the people at GM, Ford or DCX might want to tap when their backs are against the wall, no?

Now, who looks like the idiot in that scenario? GM lost twice and got 0 from the relationship, basically. Sounds alot like the Isuzu, Suzuki & Subaru fiascos as well.

The 2 billion Fiat got from GM does not explain the sales figures for Fiat and its subs....they lost more than that yearly when struggling....

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C'mon.. It's a conspiracy? How about this theory: The domestics were so bad for so long that they are given no leeway on new product.

Does your theory work for hyundai, too?? Will it come into play with mercedes, VW and land rover soon?

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Does your theory work for hyundai, too?? Will it come into play with mercedes, VW and land rover soon?

Absolutely.

When they each have millions of dissatisfied consumers avoiding their dealerships like the salesmen spread the plague...

...I should know, as we depend on domestics to keep our facilities running. It's depressing and takes enormous marketing dollars to put fannies in the seats....

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So hyundai is not receiving any leeway for their recent products, based on the vast majority of their horrendous manufacturing history? We're getting full-on, glib-n-snide, overwrought articles repeatedly hawking back to the accent and the pony, coloring all reviewed-vehicle traits with cautionary tales from the Way Back Machine?

Oh good- I was under the impression the media has forgiven & forgotten how wretchedly wretched hyundai's reputation is.

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So hyundai is not receiving any leeway for their recent products, based on the vast majority of their horrendous manufacturing history? We're getting full-on, glib-n-snide, overwrought articles repeatedly hawking back to the accent and the pony, coloring all reviewed-vehicle traits with cautionary tales from the Way Back Machine?

Oh good- I was under the impression the media has forgiven & forgotten how wretchedly wretched hyundai's reputation is.

Firstly, I'm not defending Hyundai or their history.

Second, here's my take, with my experience as management for an extremely large enterprise...

For the same reason (psychographics, et al.) that GM is throwing an enormous amount of money at Saturn,-- Hyundai, VW, Land Rover & dozens of other brands have the advantage of never having a negative or, usually, any association in the consumers' mind.

This is the opposite of the older GM brands, which have been tarnished by awful product, planning, service and, as a past market leader, everyone knows personally what kind of crap was being turned out....much of it as recently as 3/4 years ago. Conversely, the other, smaller brands have not had the widespread distribution of crap that they produced.

In the consumer's minds-eye, this 'hurdle' of negative connotation is HUGE when you're asking someone to throw down $30K or 500/mo for 5 years....

I understand that, conceptually, as GM fans it is hard to recognize this and, furthermore, since you obviously don't feel this way, there's a cognitive dissonance to the very thought of this reality. I can tell you, with years of experience and 1,000's of new/used cars beiong sold out of my dealerships that this is the prevailing attitude amongst most consumers.

I can sell domestics on a deal, with the exception of unique or high demand product. I can sell Toyotas & Nissans with an order-taker and a guy doing PDI....the Altima, for instance, had dozens of pre-orders. The new Impala had 2 when it appeared. I can't get Toyota's in fast enough, whereas Chrysler is trying to bribe me to take inventory when I've already got 90 day+ supply on hand. Ford is willing to give us a franchise...the guy down the street handed his back to Ford and sold the property because he couldn't make money as a Ford dealer anymore.

That's the reality. You can paint a rosy picture of GM's "recovery" or brag about the fantastic new product that's coming (& it is) but for a better ssense of what is really happening, ask a dealer how they are really doing...it's a bloodbath that is being financed by subvented deals, floorplanning assitance and dealer spiffs that are oftentimes the entirety of the profit on a deal.

The logic behind stating that other people sold crap cars too is another excuse, just like media bias.

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I'm not surprised. Popular Mechanics also went out of its way to publish an article and a followup book "debunking" the belief (that many educated people have now) that World Trade Center Buildings 1, 2 and 7 fell because of prepositioned explosives. The book and article are full strawman arguments. Hard to say what their motivation was in publishing such lightweight garbage.

I wonder what their motivation is in ranking 2 pretty good Japanese trucks over their arguably better domestic competition?

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I'm not surprised. Popular Mechanics also went out of its way to publish an article and a followup book "debunking" the belief (that many educated people have now) that World Trade Center Buildings 1, 2 and 7 fell because of prepositioned explosives. The book and article are full strawman arguments. Hard to say what their motivation was in publishing such lightweight garbage.

I wonder what their motivation is in ranking 2 pretty good Japanese trucks over their arguably better domestic competition?

Are you saying that there may have been explosives in those buildings?....cause if you are, any credibility you had just sank to 0.

I was in Manhattan that day, sir, and by no means was what happened that day a stunt, ruse or ploy. To use PM's completely unrelated editorial decision to somehow discredit their rankings of your beloved pickups is not just idiotic, its wrong. It's insulting and just pathetic.

Edited by enzl

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Sorry, your being in Manhattan on that day gives you no credentials. On the other hand, I do trust the firemen and police who saw, felt and heard the explosions. Don't take my word for it, read what the physicists and logicians are writing:

http://www.amazon.com/11-American-Empire-I...TF8&s=books

9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out

Book Description

Practically from the moment the dust settled in New York and Washington after the attacks of September 11, a movement has grown of survivors, witnesses, and skeptics who have never quite been able to accept the official story. When theologian David Ray Griffin turned his attention to this topic in his book The New Pearl Harbor (2003), he helped give voice to a disquieting rumble of critiques and questions from many Americans and people around the world about the events of that day. Were the military and the FAA really that incompetent? Were our intelligence-gathering agencies really in the dark about such a possibility? In short, how could so much go wrong at once, in the world's strongest and most technologically sophisticated country?

Both the government and the mainstream media have since tried to portray the 9/11 truth movement as led by people who can be dismissed as "conspiracy theorists" able to find an outlet for their ideas only on the internet. This volume, with essays by intellectuals from Europe and North America, shows this caricature to be untrue. Coming from different intellectual disciplines as well as from different parts of the world, these authors are united in the conviction that the official story about 9/11 is a huge deception manufactured to extend imperial control at home and abroad.

Contributors include Richard Falk, Daniele Ganser, David Ray Griffin, Steven E. Jones, Karin Kwiatkowski, John McMurtry, Peter Phillips, Morgan Reynolds, Kevin Ryan, Peter Dale Scott, Ola Tunander.

About the Author

Peter Dale Scott is a former Canadian diplomat and professor of English at the University of California, Berkeley. His most recent book is Drugs, Oil, and War: The United States in Afghanistan, Colombia, and Indochina. His next book is entitled The Road to 9/11: Wealth, Empire, and the Future of America. A poet, he was a winner in 2002 of the Lannan Poetry Award.

Are you saying that there may have been explosives in those buildings?....cause if you are, any credibility you had just sank to 0.

I was in Manhattan that day, sir, and by no means was what happened that day a stunt, ruse or ploy. To use PM's completely unrelated editorial decision to somehow discredit their rankings of your beloved pickups is not just idiotic, its wrong. It's insulting and just pathetic.

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Sorry, your being in Manhattan on that day gives you no credentials. On the other hand, I do trust the firemen and police who saw, felt and heard the explosions. Don't take my word for it, read what the physicists and logicians are writing:

http://www.amazon.com/11-American-Empire-I...TF8&s=books

9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out

Book Description

Practically from the moment the dust settled in New York and Washington after the attacks of September 11, a movement has grown of survivors, witnesses, and skeptics who have never quite been able to accept the official story. When theologian David Ray Griffin turned his attention to this topic in his book The New Pearl Harbor (2003), he helped give voice to a disquieting rumble of critiques and questions from many Americans and people around the world about the events of that day. Were the military and the FAA really that incompetent? Were our intelligence-gathering agencies really in the dark about such a possibility? In short, how could so much go wrong at once, in the world's strongest and most technologically sophisticated country?

Both the government and the mainstream media have since tried to portray the 9/11 truth movement as led by people who can be dismissed as "conspiracy theorists" able to find an outlet for their ideas only on the internet. This volume, with essays by intellectuals from Europe and North America, shows this caricature to be untrue. Coming from different intellectual disciplines as well as from different parts of the world, these authors are united in the conviction that the official story about 9/11 is a huge deception manufactured to extend imperial control at home and abroad.

Contributors include Richard Falk, Daniele Ganser, David Ray Griffin, Steven E. Jones, Karin Kwiatkowski, John McMurtry, Peter Phillips, Morgan Reynolds, Kevin Ryan, Peter Dale Scott, Ola Tunander.

About the Author

Peter Dale Scott is a former Canadian diplomat and professor of English at the University of California, Berkeley. His most recent book is Drugs, Oil, and War: The United States in Afghanistan, Colombia, and Indochina. His next book is entitled The Road to 9/11: Wealth, Empire, and the Future of America. A poet, he was a winner in 2002 of the Lannan Poetry Award.

I have dealt with these stories from the beginning. ITs amzing how much they have evolved. I used to get a good laugh about this with many different people.

Educate yourself.

The very idea is so disgusting it makes me sick. First they werent planes, then they were holograms, then planes but this time military type, then ,issiles...its all BULL&#036;h&#33;. It is easily refutable. I have done much research and can without a doubt conclude the collapse was soley from the impact of the planes, the fire and the construction of the building. You mention bombs, thermite or any other &#036;h&#33; and i will smack the &#036;h&#33; out of you.

It would take tons of thermite and days/weeks/months to rig it. In buildings that were always full. IT would stink and there would be evidence al over the place. There is not.

as for NYPD and NYFD most of their quotes were taken out of context. Read this learn something and shut the f@#k up.

http://www.debunking911.com/

http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/wtc.shtml

and 2 other things. High rises are built knowing a plane could crash into it. The speeds however were only conducted at landing approach speeds. This hit at 500 mph and with 22,000 gallons of jet fuel. IT burns just enough to wilt the steel .11-1600 degrees if i recall correctly. WE were lucky it just didnt break in half.

and 2 the empire state or chrysler probably would have survived in tact because of the excess concrete and no steel exoskelton construction like WTC N and WTC S.

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