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My First Rant... This is going to be good seriously!


gm4life

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I have read stuff all across the board about GM as of late.

My turn to rant, this is my first offical rant... Let the fun begin.

What is GM thinking buy Chrysler? Seriously they have enough of their 'own' stuff to work on!-Why do people keep pushing the RWD DTS and Lucerne for the next redesign? Do people not understand that FWD suits the buyers of these vehicles just fine and could be pissing sales down the toilet? I hope they do Toyota manages okay with not one US badged RWD Toyota car! That should say something! Get a new platform going and get to WORK!-Why is GM so slow to putting 5/6spd. automatics in cars, I understand the production problem but no reason the Impala and LaX along with the DTS/Lucerne shouldn't get them! That is just stupid!-Get the new 6spd. automatic's in the 1500 Series Trucks and SUV's already, we have waited long enough!-Where in the hell is the 6.2L Vortec in the Silverado and Serria with 385hp just enough to trump Toyota? That is a simple change! Screw the fact that the Vortec 6.2L is only in high-level stuff! Chevy/GMC needs the bragging rights, right NOW!-What idot decided not to show the new Astra with a turbo Ecotech or the bigger 2.4L with 170ish hp? That was pure ignorance! And why in the hell isn't getting a 5 or 6 speed auto? A 6spd. stick couldn't hurt in the redline!-When is the DTS Platinum coming out along with STS & XLR verison?-Why don't they just give the performance DTS a kick up in hp to 300, never understood that either!-When is Pontiac going to release some decent photos of the G8?-Why in the hell is the poor quality Toyota Camry the best selling car in America?-Has Nissan lost some design talent the Senta looks like goat $h!! The new Altima is alot better thankfully!-Why don't they send the Monte Carlo out on a good note with a final 1000 limited edition models! THEY NEED TO RE-CONSIDER! I think white SS's with orange racing strips like on the '69 Camaro pace car would be sweet with red/orange leather!-Why has Chrylser screwed up the new Sebring so much and made it look like a car for someone in the 'home?-Then Dodge comes out with the decent looking Avenger!-Why has GM waited so long to come out with good interiors?-Can someone explain why the WONDERFUL new Tundra has big a$$ rebates and has sold slow! A new model shouldn't especially a Toyota, I have seen two on a dealers lot but none on the road! Hope it flops and the Silverado keeps flying off lots!-What is GM thinking when the design a new turbo diesel and want to charge another 5K for it? I might consider it at 2K maybe even 3K but not 5K!-Why is GM making the Colorado/Cayons with a 4.2L I-6 with a cylinder chopped off, just give them the 4200 6!-When is the Hummer H3 getting an Alpha verison?-Why is Ford waiting so long to bring out all these special edition 'Stangs?-Why did they decide to bring back the Taurus?-Toyota please don't screw up the next generation Land Cruiser/LX!-What in the hell was Toyota thinking when they came out with the new Hybrid concept in blue, that looks like a massive turd? Ah maybe they were drunk!-Why doesn't Honda make a RWD performance Acura sedan?-When is the GTO/Trans Am coming back, and which one are we getting? (Both would be nice!)-When is Chevy bringing back the Chevelle?..........

That was my rant, tell me what you all thought of that, it is good to get stuff of your back!

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Did you say that all in one breath?

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You got it right about it taking too long for GM to do this stuff, but that's what they're in the process of fixing right now.

Other questions answered:

Why RWD?

1. RWD allows an easier application of AWD. Look for plenty of AWD DTSs and Lucernes rolling around when they're on Zeta.

2. RWD allows for an easier application of the 2-mode hybrid.

3. RWD will allow for a true SS version of the Impala.

4. They can make more business cases for other vehicles this way. For example, they needed more volume from an NA RWD program to make a case for the Camaro.

Why so late with the Mustang variants?

I ask, why bring them anyway? Yeah, they're fun, but Ford has almost no brand equity left as it is, and now they're pimping out one of the 2 model lines that people view in a positive light (the other being the F-Series). Ask yourself, how much value does the Mustang GT have after there have been 10 other versions that kick its ass?

Why bring back the Taurus?

Again, this is about brand equity. The Taurus name had some equity when Ford dumped it. Ask some random person on the street who builds the Taurus and they'll likely say Ford; ask them who builds the 500 and they'll likely say Chrysler. So I don't disagree with bringing the Taurus name back, but rather with how they did it. I mean really, have some patience and wait for a new model to do it with; don't just slap the Taurus name on a facelifted 500.

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After mid 90's Taurus lost all of its charm, and why bring it back?

As far as the Lucerne/DTS AWD cost more so does RWD doesn't it? Or if FWD more? Other than that and the fact it over-laps the STS and would be silly due to good sales. I fully support a RWD Impala SS, now that the new larger and great looking 2008 Malibu is coming out!

Edited by gm4life
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Ok, let's see here...

Everyone thinks the Lucerne and DTS should go RWD because Zeta is so much better than G-Body that it's not even funny. It would be idiotic to keep them on G. If buyers think they need FWD for the snow then they can buy the AWD versions. And making a new platform would be dumb too. For 2 vehicles? No way.

Toyota has RWD vehicles... they call them "Lexus" and that's what the Lucerne and DTS are supposed to compete against. Hmm... that seems to start to make sense now, no?

G-Body can't have 6-speeds (wasn't designed for them). Perhaps W-Body can't either, I don't know. All of those cars will be gone within a year or two anyways. They are putting them in the T900s... all '08 models should have them.

The Sierra does have the 6.2.

The Astra is a very small car. It will do fine with the powertrains they are putting in it. Also, have you seen the Redline and it's specs? If not, then don't complain about it not having a 6-speed, because I don't think you can know that it doesn't.

First you want the DTS to stay FWD, then you want more power so it's higher performing, those seem like opposites to me...

I'm not going to continue, because I don't feel like spending more time answering this rather ridiculous rant.

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FWD sells tho, I know you disagree but can't the STS and CTS handle it? I think they can. The DTS still has merits, and no I don't think the DTS will be gone in a year or two they haven't annouced or shown a replacement. Yeah the Serria has the 6.2 only in the uplevel Denali, I am talking about SLE/SLT/LT/LTZ trims here. Having said that Northie I respect your view but am agreeing to disagree. I do think FWD is okay but only for one Cadilllac sedan and havng two other RWD cars is enough. The DTS has very loyal and is some cases older customers, but who cares so long as it sells.

Edited by gm4life
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one of the biggest reasons to go RWD in my book is the proportions that allow that incredible sleek and long look. Look at the 3-series and 3-series coupe today; you can find no fault in thier proportions and stout stance; this is the single greatest and simplest feature of thier design, and it simply works incredibly well. Do a study of the best looking FWD cars and RWD cars and you will find the RWD cars will always have better proportions.

A good reason for the switchover to RWD that is specific to GM is simply lack of funding. There is a demand for RWD cars that simply could not be satisfied by FWD cars in certain markets [luxury]; and because of this GM must have RWD platforms ready for the next decade to compete in the most lucrative segments, Cadillac's market. Because they must have RWD, and they have no money to do all the platforms they really need, FWD must be sacrificed.

one of the other huge great reason to turn to RWD in my book is simply the inherent neutral nature of a RWD car, where the weight is shifted to the rear. I have never driven a GM large car that didn't immediately disgust me with its dynamics, heavy-plow nature, and big boat feel. GM has to get away from that to compete in trendier markets, where consumers are more discerning than in the Midwest where the roads are long flat and straight. They have to have cars that are smaller on the outside and bigger on the inside, that feel small, direct, and completely balanced. They have to replicate the feeling of the 1988 Honda Accord that I have yet to see duplicated in any GM car [those who have driven Honda's products will understand the balance I am talking about]. Until that time, I will not consider GM the best choice for me, but maybe for my sister....

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The assumption above regarding the DTS is that the majority of buyers purchase it primarily because it's FWD- has this factor EVER been surveyed before ??? I do not believe there's much validity to that theory- IMO the DTS sells on what it is as far as quality, ride, amenities, room, style, power, etc, but not necessarily because it's FWD.

I have no problem with 1 FWD car in Caddys lineup, but importpollyannas won't forgive it (even tho they'd never buy a Cadillac in their life because of the 'baggage'), so it's probably wise to switch the DTS back to RWD with an AWD option.

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The market for large FWD cars has been shrinking for years. I favor keeping FWD for mid size cars and smaller and using RWD for large and luxury cars. I agree with turbo200; it would cost GM too much money to develop a new large FWD platform for the DTS and Lucerne. It is more cost effective to move them to Zeta. Anyone who wants a large FWD Buick can buy an Enclave.

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The market for large FWD cars has been shrinking for years. I favor keeping FWD for mid size cars and smaller and using RWD for large and luxury cars. I agree with turbo200; it would cost GM too much money to develop a new large FWD platform for the DTS and Lucerne. It is more cost effective to move them to Zeta. Anyone who wants a large FWD Buick can buy an Enclave.

I seriously doubt people in their 60's and 70's, will be buying an Enclave anytime soon! :smilewide:

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I agree 100 percent with Custom-S all RWD large cars would keep bringing market share down. Some people want an alternative here. The DTS/Lucerne are cars worth redesigning a platform for in my view.

Edited by gm4life
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FWD sells tho, I know you disagree but can't the STS and CTS handle it? I think they can. The DTS still has merits, and no I don't think the DTS will be gone in a year or two they haven't annouced or shown a replacement. Yeah the Serria has the 6.2 only in the uplevel Denali, I am talking about SLE/SLT/LT/LTZ trims here. Having said that Northie I respect your view but am agreeing to disagree. I do think FWD is okay but only for one Cadilllac sedan and havng two other RWD cars is enough. The DTS has very loyal and is some cases older customers, but who cares so long as it sells.

The Town Car isn't FWD and it sells to plenty of old people. As Balthazar said, the DTS doesn't sell because it's FWD, it sells because of it's other attributes. And, the STS is most likely dead, so the CTS is all that's left. GM can essentially kill two birds with one stone by moving the DTS rear-drive. First, current buyers will recognize it as the new version of their car, so that will automatically attract them. Then, it will attract buyers who would never consider the current car because it's not RWD, which is want most luxury buyers want.

And finally, if old people are so concerned about traction in the snow, they'd be better off with AWD than FWD anyways.

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I seriously doubt people in their 60's and 70's, will be buying an Enclave anytime soon! :smilewide:

I think that's very possible, actually. The entry/egress would be much easier than getting in and out of a car that's much lower to the ground.

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2/3 or Town Car sales are to fleets. So the other 1/3 are old farts. Seriously it would be a huge mistake, I think. Yes AWD is better than FWD but FWD is better than RWD. Also AWD adds extra cost, the DTS has been such a sucess because for under 55K you can get darn near every option and a Benz S Class similar in size costs 30K at least more than it. The DTS has a wider appeal and around 1/4 them sell to fleets vs. the TC's 2/3's. I wouldn't mess up the DTS with RWD just yet. It just needs an updated platform and a 6spd. automatic.

Edited by gm4life
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2/3 or Town Car sales are to fleets. So the other 1/3 are old farts. Seriously it would be a huge mistake, I think. Yes AWD is better than FWD but FWD is better than RWD. Also AWD adds extra cost, the DTS has been such a sucess because for under 55K you can get darn near every option and a Benz S Class similar in size costs 30K at least more than it. The DTS has a wider appeal and around 1/4 them sell to fleets vs. the TC's 2/3's. I wouldn't mess up the DTS with RWD just yet. It just needs an updated platform and a 6spd. automatic.

I don't think you're going to change your mind so this is the last I'm going to say on the subject:

If everyone who buys the Town Car besides fleet agencies are old people, then they must think RWD is just fine. TONS of old people live in southern states because they don't want to deal with snow anyways, so RWD would be just fine.

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Northstar you are a good person, but we will never to see eye to eye on this one. I still say FWD, but I respect you view and understand your point of view, but my final question remain's would a RWD DTS cost alot more than a FWD DTS?

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