Ever wonder what..

[daves87rs]

I was thinking about it today...

I wonder where my S-10 is today. Hopefully in good shape somewhere...

I almost want to run a carfax to see where she ended up...

What about you guys?

[vonVeezelsnider]

I know what happened to my Cavalier, I saw it last week on Campus. I was also happy that the girl whose father (mechanic at our dealer) bought it hadn't stuck any "Hello Kitty" stickers or put any pink seatcovers on it.

I've always wondered about the Trans Sport 3.8 we had... The wonder kind of appears and wanes but since I saw an absolute doppleganger for it (that wasn't it) yesterday I find myself wondering again.

[balthazar]

I still have my first car out in the shop.

One vehicle I miss was my '57 F-250- went to North NJ circa '94 - hope it's safely tucked away in someone's garage and not coming back over as another worthless sh!tpile hyundai.

I really wonder where 2 of my buddies' cars went: '53 Merc 2-dr sedan (north NJ again) and '59 Pontiac Star Chief.

Edited July 14, 2008 by balthazar

[caddycruiser]

ALL the time...at least with those that my parents have had or that were the family cars.

The past few I've been able to Carfax since I kept the vins.

-'00 Chrysler 300M, traded with 18k for the '02 Avalanche, auto auctioned (was wrecked), then ended up in western PA not far from where we used to live with one owner who still has it.

-'02 Avalanche Z66, traded with 33k for the '04 Suburban, sold off the dealer lot to a local guy who lived at the golf course my father worked at and he saw it daily. That guy drove it up to about 80k, traded it, it was auto auctioned, and headed south. Then a couple of months back, sad news, it was over 100k in South Carolina...and totaled in an accident. Such a fantastic vehicle, that we all still missed, both the parents were sad to hear that.

-'04 Suburban, traded with 56k for the '08 Malibu, sold off the dealer lot pretty quickly and registered down there at the beach. Never knew much past that until 2 weeks ago I was turning to head home and...boom...there it was coming right at me. Knew from the stripe, mudflaps, and dealer sticker, and it looked like a soccer mom driving it. My mother's question then to me was "Was it being kept up or dirty?" Hah.

The same will be true with my '95 Fleetwood, which I actually sold to a friend and fellow enthusiast I know well largely so I can see it live on. Depending on how long he has it, I'll keep tabs regardless.

It's always a wonder, for sure. Now I just need to track down dad's '69 Chevelle Malibu (have the lady's number in NH...just always get their machine) and, if it's even still around, the '70 Dodge Coronet he had when we were in PA and sold to a teenager...oy.

[XP715]

Hmm, let's see. In the order I got them:

-1990 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme sedan: totalled, not my fault. Insurance paid out and I sent her to heaven in summer of 2004.

-1989 Oldsmobile Toronado: transmission went, sold it to a guy the next town over for $500 in fall of 2004. A friend of mine spotted it in a different guy's yard on the other side of town about a year later, sold some time at the end of 2005. Whereabouts unknown.

-1996 Buick Riviera: sold to a man in southern New Hampshire in summer of 2007 who bought it for his daughter. Whereabouts unknown.

-1979 Cadillac Coupe DeVille: sold to some wigger on the other side of town in spring of 2006. Saw it on occasion for a few months after that, most of the time being driven by his girlfriend. Took him about five minutes to tint the windows way beyond legality and saw a hole in the dashboard for a CD player. Whereabouts unknown.

-1971 Cadillac Coupe DeVille: traded to a guy in New Hampshire in fall of 2006 for my 1967 Eldorado. Called him about a month later and he told me the transmission blew. Most likely sitting in his yard with the other 40 Cadillacs he has there.

-1977 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme sedan: also traded to the guy in New Hampshire in fall of 2006 for my 1967 Eldorado. Supposedly he was going to trade it to a friend of his for another Cadillac. Whereabouts unknown.

-1967 Cadillac Eldorado: still got it, in storage, restoration on hold.

-1974 Lincoln Continental Executive Limousine (Moloney Coachbuilders, Inc.): lost storage, sold to a Lincoln collector in upstate New York for the paltry sum of $900 in summer of 2007. Currently undergoing restoration and I still keep in touch with the guy.

-1977 Cadillac Coupe DeVille: traded to Sixty8Panther in spring of 2008 for my 1990 Chevrolet Suburban R1500. He currently drives it daily and has pretty well beaten the $h! out of it as he does with all his cars. Runs like $h! with much lifter noise and knocking and a little smoke after repeated overheating, constant overloading of the trunk has led to numerous blowouts so the new set of tires I put on it are no longer a set (now has mismatched junkyard tires on it), white duct tape all over the interior, perpetually filled with garbage, broken heating vents in the dashboard, holes in the previously flawless vinyl top, etc. Very sad. My girlfriend actually started crying when she saw the condition of the car after a few months and remembering how it was and all I had done to it when I had it and got pissed at me that I had given it to him.

-1967 Cadillac Eldorado (the other one): $200 rotted out not running $h!box I parted out for my other Eldorado and sent to heaven as a stripped out body with one door and a broken windshield left in summer of 2007.

-1971 Cadillac Sedan DeVille: sold to a guy in Brockton, Massachusetts in spring of 2008. Probably being made into a donk given the guy's personality and taste (showed Sixty8 pictures of an 80's DeVille he owned whose interior was redone in dollar bill fabric, no lie!). Normally I'd be mad, but this car was so beat to death, it may be the only way the car would have survived.

-1990 Chevrolet Suburban Silverado V1500: sold in winter of 2007 to a guy in Hudson, New Hampshire who wanted the nose and engine and for an '82 K10 stepside he was building. Probably junked the rest because it was a rotbox. Whereabouts unknown.

-1978 Cadillac Coupe DeVille: $400 $h!box I parted out for my '77 Coupe and junked in spring of 2008.

-1990 Chevrolet Suburban Silverado R1500: still got it, daily year-round driver.

-1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille: still got it, summer driver and weekend money pit.

[Blake Noble]

I sold my previous truck, my S10, for five-hundred dollars to a guy who intended to use the engine and transmission in another, slightly older S10. However, I believe I might have spotted it a few weeks ago, front clip and other problems repaired, when I headed out to a parts store to buy a 5 quart jug of high-mileage Pennzoil to put in the Sonoma (it had the exact same brand of bedliner as my old truck had, and the dash was cracked in the exact same place). Whatever the case might be, I know it still somehow lives on outside of what parts I salvaged from it to use in the Sonoma (cracked/broken interior pieces mainly).

-1977 Cadillac Coupe DeVille: traded to Sixty8Panther in spring of 2008 for my 1990 Chevrolet Suburban R1500. He currently drives it daily and has pretty well beaten the $h! out of it as he does with all his cars. Runs like $h! with much lifter noise and knocking and a little smoke after repeated overheating, constant overloading of the trunk has led to numerous blowouts so the new set of tires I put on it are no longer a set (now has mismatched junkyard tires on it), white duct tape all over the interior, perpetually filled with garbage, broken heating vents in the dashboard, holes in the previously flawless vinyl top, etc. Very sad. My girlfriend actually started crying when she saw the condition of the car after a few months and remembering how it was and all I had done to it when I had it and got pissed at me that I had given it to him.

Somehow reading all of that doesn't surprise me.

Edited July 14, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[XP715]

I also wonder what happened to the 1987 GMC Sierra Classic C1500 my father had when I was young. His father drove it off the lot new in 1987 and my father inherited it upon his passing in 1990. Drove it daily for the next decade and traded it in on a dealer leftover 2000 Chevrolet Silverado in early 2001. The truck had seen over a quarter-million miles and was on its second engine and had received a frame-off freshening up with new paint and everything else in 1997. If I could find it I'd buy it back in half a second simply for the fact that it belonged to my grandfather. Don't care what it would cost to redo it. I should try and find some paperwork on it and mooch off somebody's CARFAX if I ever find the VIN.

I'm also curious as to what happened to my father's 1952 Chevrolet half-ton standard cab pickup truck. He bought it in 1976 when he was only 15 years old and restored it once, drove it daily until 1986 (along with other vehicles) and wore it out, let it sit for five years, and restored it again. Started its life out as forest green with steelies and dog dishes and a 216 cubic inch inline six with three on the tree, ended up fire engine red with Corvette rallys and derby caps and a 350 crate motor with four on the floor and a posi rear out of a '73 Grand Prix. In the mid 90's he sold it to a guy in Maine who had dreams of a big block swap, but the guy seemed like a real slapdick (showed us pictures of an old car he had, can't remember what, and proudly told us of where rotting sheet metal on the leading edge of the hood had been replaced with a section of fence post because the curvature of it was "close enough." Yikes!) and I bet he either sold it, f@#ked it up and then sold it, or took the nose off of it and the 350 out and there she sits in a barn or under a cover. Sad.

[knightfan26917]

I almost want to run a carfax to see where she ended up...

What about you guys?

*nods*

Yep...I sure do.

I did run a title search through the IL Sec of State's office for my parents' former '76 MC back in the mid-1990s. It had 2 owners after Mom and Dad (the original owners) traded it in ... and the second ended up junking it ... a few weeks before I started the title search...arg!

Even so, I wonder, sometimes, what happened to my former '88 MC LS...as well as a few other cars my parents owned. I don't care what happened to my 2 new cars, which are both LONG gone.

Cort:34swm."Mr Monte Carlo.Mr Road Trip".pig valve&pacemaker

WRMNshowcase.legos.HO.models.MCs.RTs.CHD = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

"I'm burning up this blacktop" ... Mark Collie ... 'Even The Man In The Moon Is Crying'

[XP715]

Now I just need to track down dad's '69 Chevelle Malibu (have the lady's number in NH...just always get their machine)

Where in New Hampshire? If you have an address I could take a run by the house some day.....

[Sixty8panther]

Yeah... that's a bit harsh. Delivering Chinese food in the Banana and driving it as my

daily in the winter and all is a worthy sacrifice, my '59 Buick did not see any salt and

in the end 77 Cadillacs are a lot more expendable than '50s cars. At least I did not

freeze my nutsack off driving around with NO HEAT in the new england winter. I had

that fix done in about 3 days... after you owned the car for 8 months with no solution.

(granted the heater core was manually opened with a throttle spring)

Driving about 30,000 miles a year is not easy on any vehicle, but let's not forget who

insisted the car was NOT LOW on coolant despite overheating. And that roadtrip got you

and Amanda the '71 deVille 4dr hardtop for $600.

Now as far as my rides.... most of the 47 I could give a $hit less about, some were

demolition derbyd so (as Balthy said) they're now coming back as Hyundais & Toyopets.

- 68 Camaro: undergoing FULL restoration in upstate NY

- 64 Olds Super 88 Holiday: undergoing some amount of work (prob. mostly mechanical) in Holland, EU

- 87 Caddy Fleetwood Brougham d'Elegance (white/white/blue) parts car for local Cadillac nut

- 86 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham (tripple silver) got SBC swap after 200K miles, living in Vermont

- 86 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham (gunmetal gray/gray/burgundy) still daily driven by the gentleman

who bought it off me, he lives across town. I see the car almost every day in his driveway.

- 79 Granada 2dr (crushed about 3 weeks after I sold it... got impounded & recycled)

- 83 Pontiac Firebird (sold with a crate SCB 350 @ 200K miles) still probably hanging around Worcester

- 90 Suburban 2500 barn door: (~300k miles) bought by dumb kid who rolled it, now almost certainly crushed

those are the more interesting ones...

[Camino LS6]

Some I don't care.

Some I wonder about.

Some I know. :AH-HA_wink:

[XP715]

Yeah... that's a bit harsh. Delivering Chinese food in the Banana and driving it as my

daily in the winter and all is a worthy sacrifice, my '59 Buick did not see any salt and

in the end 77 Cadillacs are a lot more expendable than '50s cars. At least I did not

freeze my nutsack off driving around with NO HEAT in the new england winter. I had

that fix done in about 3 days... after you owned the car for 8 months with no solution.

(granted the heater core was manually opened with a throttle spring)

Driving about 30,000 miles a year is not easy on any vehicle, but let's not forget who

insisted the car was NOT LOW on coolant despite overheating. And that roadtrip got you

and Amanda the '71 deVille 4dr hardtop for $600.

-The only reason your '59 Buick didn't see any salt this winter is because that one's been blown up and doesn't run due to neglect also (once again, repeated overheating and finally some sort of fire completely killed it. Why spend a hundred bucks to have the water pump rebuilt and do things properly when you can just drive around with a couple gallons of water in the back seat!), because it certainly saw salt the winter before when you bought it.

-The heat in the Cadillac failed about a month before it came under your ownership: I didn't let it go for eight months. I didn't fix it because I had zero time and because I do about five miles of driving on an average day; I can put on my coat like a big kid and handle the cold for ten minutes. It was probably stupid to do, but I did it. Turned out to be some stupid little vacuum pod way up under the dashboard had stuck closed and left the door that channels warm air into the cabin in the closed position, which I had suspected because the car's astroventilation didn't work either after it had happened.

-I thought the car was not low on coolant the first time the warning light came on at about mile 15 of an 80-mile round trip, going on your information that you'd just filled it up. Of course it would be low after you continued to drive it for the other 65 as it boiled over the whole way. I also offered numerous times to call the seller of the '70 DeVille and cancel so that you could turn around and drive the car home without further damage but you drove it anyways. Tell the entire story, not just half.

Bottom line is you beat the living daylights out of stuff and hurt things that shouldn't be able to be hurt due to a complete lack of care and refusal to fix things the right way. Tell everybody about the '64 Oldsmobile you bought that hadn't run in a quarter-century: you rolled it over, slammed the hood, and took her for a ride. I was in that car on more than one occasion where you stomped on it and floated the valves. After that one was beat to the point that it didn't run anymore you sold it to some dude in Holland on the premise that it did. What's your explanation or justification for that, I wonder?

One would think that for someone who claims to love cars so much they wouldn't be so hard on them. Find one POS to beat the crap out of and at least maintain if not improve your old stuff. Or at least fix it properly when it breaks. Bubble gum and duct tape only goes so far.

[Intrepidation]

Reading that about the `77 does make me kinda sad. I don't want to get into this touchy issue, but sometimes it's better to pay extra and have a job done right the first time (water pump).

Also, 68, did you ever considering getting a true beater for delivery? I tell ya, those little FWD econboxes you love to hate make great delivery cars...I should know. Plus you could beat the living $h! out of it and no one would care, or if they did they'd praise you for it.

Anyway, I do wonder whatever happened to our Dodge Aspen. When I was little I loved that car, and when we sold it off it was a very sad day for me. That thing had some pretty good rot that had been patched up over the years. I haven't heard about it in many years, but when I did last hear about it the car was still being driven...dunno about now.

We had a Satellite Sebring we sent to heaven because of severe rot. I never got to see that car on the road...I only remember it as the white car in the corner of the driveway with a yellow driver's door, a bee's nest and lots of rust.

We had a big, ugly black Ram Van that my dad spent months rebuilding the engine only to have it sit until we junked it years later.

Several years back we traded our Plymouth Reliant sedan for the `87 Shadow 2.2 Turbo.

A few years later we sent the Aries wagon to heaven, as it was just too rusty. Its engine, which was bulletproof, ended up in the Spirit.

We sent our Dodge Spirit off to the junkyard, which always bothered me because it only needed a fuel pump, and was super clean. Some prick called the city because there was a disassembled Shadow in the junkyard and they didn't like looking at it. Some asshole, in this disgusting $h!hole that is Lawrence did that. We were going to junk it anyway, but ended up having to get rid of it, the Spirit, and the RV (which was given away).

The Town and Country is for sale for parts, and we're thinking about putting the `86 Caravan for sale with it, sell them together and make one good van out of 2.

The `89 Shadow, well I won't tell you what's happened to that.

The other cars will be stay with us forever if I can help it.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Dodgefan

[daves87rs]

Ouch!

[XP715]

We had a big, ugly black Ram Van that my dad spent months rebuilding the engine only to have it sit until we junked it years later.

You seen this big ugly blue 15 passenger 3500 Ram van on craigslist that was one of a handful converted to FOUR WHEEL DRIVE(!) for the Army Corps of Engineers? You totally need to buy it and make it a big nasty one of a kind off-roader/snow beast. I decided for you. There's no getting out of it.

http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/car/751968008.html

I'd better be getting a ride in this on 38" Super Swampers by Christmas!

[vonVeezelsnider]

You seen this big ugly blue 15 passenger 3500 Ram van on craigslist that was one of a handful converted to FOUR WHEEL DRIVE(!) for the Army Corps of Engineers? You totally need to buy it and make it a big nasty one of a kind off-roader/snow beast. I decided for you. There's no getting out of it.

Cool! A 15-Pass 4WD Possum Van!

[Intrepidation]

You seen this big ugly blue 15 passenger 3500 Ram van on craigslist that was one of a handful converted to FOUR WHEEL DRIVE(!) for the Army Corps of Engineers? You totally need to buy it and make it a big nasty one of a kind off-roader/snow beast. I decided for you. There's no getting out of it.

http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/car/751968008.html

I'd better be getting a ride in this on 38" Super Swampers by Christmas!

If you pay for it.

The one we had was older and uglier. I remember one of the side doors were blue. and it had a teardrop window.

[XP715]

Cool! A 15-Pass 4WD Possum Van!

Possum Van or CATBUS?!

I HAVE A 1995 MO' VAN THAT GOT TRANSFORMED INTO THIS CATBUS. I BROUGHT IT TO A SHOPS AND I WAS LIKE HEY, CAN YOU TURN THIS INTO A CATBUS? SO THEY DID. THEN THAT DAY I DROVE IT HOME. THE CAT BUS ONLY HAS 50K, WHICH ARE ALL HIGHWAY MILES AS I DROVE IT TO WORK 2 DAYS A WEEK AND THAT WAS IT. IT'S IN REALLY GOOD SHAPE AND ALL THE FUR IS STILL ALL THERE. THE STEERING WHEEL HAS A CAT ON IT. IM ONLY ASKING 2900 FOR THE CATBUS BECAUSE ITS REALLY FURRY AND SOMETIMES PEOPLE GET SICK ON IT.

[Intrepidation]

Oh my.

[Sixty8panther]

1. I'm like 99% sure I will never deliver (chinese/pizza whatever) again.... $4/gallon only makes that $1.35 tip MORE insulting!

2. I'll buy a modern FWD car when I see a '80-'84 Seville on craigslist for $300 in mint condition. Never before.

----

XP: Let me just say one thing about my reluctance

to spend money on my cars:

Talk to me when you actually pay RENT, living with

mommy & daddy makes throwing away hundred$

on multiple cars a LOT easier.

You often times forget to live by your own standards,

I seem to remember a certain Oldsmobile of yours

that you bought, beat the $h! out of without ever

doing so much as a basic safety insp. and come to

find out 10 minutes after you did a massive burnout

in it the car's 350-rocket was 2 quarts low on oil.

Let's not get nasty and start exaggerating for effect.

[XP715]

XP: Let me just say one thing about my reluctance

to spend money on my cars:

Talk to me when you actually pay RENT, living with

mommy & daddy makes throwing away hundred$

on multiple cars a LOT easier.

You often times forget to live by your own standards,

I seem to remember a certain Oldsmobile of yours

that you bought, beat the $h! out of without ever

doing so much as a basic safety insp. and come to

find out 10 minutes after you did a massive burnout

in it the car's 350-rocket was 2 quarts low on oil.

Let's not get nasty and start exaggerating for effect.

Actually, although I do still currently live under my parents roof, I pay them rent. I also pay to store my Eldorado and my other car stuff. I'm also going halfsies on my college education. So to insinuate that I live virtually expense-free is quite an exaggeration. Also, please explain to me how anything done to improve the condition and operation of a vehicle would be "throwing away" your money, especially when spending a little up front often means spending a lot less later. Sounds like a no-brainer to me, especially for someone like you who has children; you'd think doing it the right way for safety and reliability's sake for their potential benefit and wellbeing if nothing else would be a priority, but I guess it isn't. This is awfully big talk coming from the guy who drove his four year-old daughter around for a while in a car that was missing its rear brakes and had the line pinched off with a pair of Vise-Grips, don't you think?

As far as the '77 Oldsmobile is concerned, it is absolutely true that the car did one incredible burnout and an afternoon's worth of aggressive driving with low oil. But let's put it into context: I bought a car I didn't need (already had a perfect daily driver plus one extra at my disposal, remember?) for all of $230 and romped on it the day I bought it. But what happened after I pulled the stick out and saw what had happened? I immediately got oil and filled it. Then I drove it very sparingly; on the rare occasion I did, I monitored it carefully until my earliest convenience when I was able to replace the valve cover gaskets that were the culprit of the leak the car had. Then I changed the oil and monitored the level carefully after. How this one and only one instance of carelessness of mine you have witnessed translates into me "often forgetting to live by my standards" I do not understand.

SO

In light of all that has been said, what exactly have I "exaggerated for effect?" More importantly, what "effect" is it that I'm going for, I wonder? I don't understand why it's so incredibly difficult for you to just admit how unnecessarily hard and abusive you are on your vehicles and see that your refusal to spend a couple bucks to do something the right way the first time around hurts you in the long run. If you're willing to beat on something, be willing to fix it when it breaks, too.

[daves87rs]

Cool! A 15-Pass 4WD Possum Van!

[/quote/

[Sixty8panther]

Yeah, I guess I just beat the piss out of my cars to no end.... never maintain

them properly on top of it compromise safety all the time. That's why out of

dozens of cars I've owned I've taken more than a few GM "beaters" past the

200K mark. My wife's 1992 Roadmaster which is a $200 winter beater, has a

jimmy rigged exhaust pipe and cosmetically looks like it was driven through

Afghanistan on three tours of duty & an off road rally race, but at 120+ miles

it's still running every day and has never experienced a breakdown.

There's a reason why you decided to sell me back the Banana, it's a great old

Cadillac but like so many late '70s cars, GM or otherwise, it has annoying

issues and quirky '70s wiring.

Let's think, you said you drive "five miles a day"

I drive a LOT, probably 24K on an average year, & as much as 30,000 one year

between the '86 Cadillac, '97 Cadillac, '84 Datsun & '68 Camaro.

As of the last few months (my 2nd ownership of the Banana) I've been driving

more than ever, while delivering Chinese Food I'd often times drive 150 miles

in one night... also still going back & forth to UPS.

Now with my new job, and high gas pries I'm probably averaging less than 17K

a year since I almost never go anywhere and both my jobs are close, UPS is

pretty much just across town and the other commute is just a few exits up 495.

But in any case my 40+ miles a day made any and all of the cars quirks & weak

spots surface, your commute to school and work, as you said, is close enough to

walk to.

Now instead of trying to throw me under the bus for over heating the Banana

how 'bout you think back to why I do not have a winter beater? What happened

to my high-MPG $h!-box that would super come in handy right now?

The s#itstorm that resulted when that idiot from Western Mass totaled my Datsun

three days before Christmas is still not over.

I'm assuming you also carry just basic comp. coverage through your insurance

since you'd be paying $4000 a year, so imagine for a sec. some jerk totals your

Burban, you're stuck with a useless vehicle in a wrecking yard, towing/impoud

fees are a slap in the face after (despite a witness who saw the other guy run a

red light) you see ZERO compensation. You miss work due to your resulting lower

back, knee and shoulder injury. You take time out for physical therapy 2 days a

week and on top of that not only do you NOT see a dime months later, but you

have to pay $270 worth of fines to the state of NH for "abandoning" a vehicle

that you'd much rather have kept & parted out, had it not been for the $2000 in

impound fees from the towing yard.

Someday when I get what is owed to me in small claims court I MIGHT, if I am

lucky, receive due compensation, and I will most certainly spend a chunk of that

money on the B-59 & the rest of the fleet. Having a second child on the way &

working 50-70 hours a week does not help in terms of finding free time to even

begin the work I would like to do to the B-59 and Banana.

As far as being a miser towards my cars & never spending money, WTF do you

call it when I walked into NAPA the DAY I got my UPS bonus and dropped the

ENTIRE amount on a full motor gasket set, plugs, wires, hardware, oil, trans fluid,

hoses, P.S. fluid etc. on the B-59?

You get back to me when you have an ex & pregnant wife already telling you

that you're spending way too much time/$ tinkering with your cars.

Oh how I wish I had nothing but a girlfriend, '67 Eldo, '70 deVille & '90 Burban

to worry about... I'd love to go back to college and live the life again.

So again before you go lecturing ME try getting up at 2:45 am & going into UPS

to load trucks like a crackhead on ice skates, then get out and 9am, clean up,

hit the highway & get to your next job 20 miles away, show up for 10am looking

presentable & working until 5pm and then either driving home to pass out or

driving 30 miles south to pick up your daughter at daycare before 6pm, during

rush hour traffic....

speaking of which, I've got places to be and Sofias to take on a short roadtrip.

[knightfan26917]

Possum Van or CATBUS?!

Holy.....

I can't imagine driving around town in THAT!

[Intrepidation]

Cool! A 15-Pass 4WD Possum Van!

That is a big, ugly van but it's got great proportions