Chazman

Alpha camaro. Can you live without a V8?

56 posts in this topic

If an Alpha Camaro came without a V8 option, would that be acceptable?

Personally, I think what GM does, depends alot on what Ford does with it's next gen Mustang in '13/'14.

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Sorry mods about the triple post. I was trying to post a poll but somehow screwed it up.

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I might be able to live without one. But based on PCS's posts about the new platform, I don't think we'll have to.

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For me, it probably doesn't matter, but for the car to be sold as a Camaro, it needs a V8 option even if it's a small displacement that has lower HP numbers than we're used to.

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The Camaro will need to get substantially over 30 mpg, since trucks will be averaged in the 35 mpg CAFE. I don't see how GM can offer V8's in any cars other than the Corvette and maybe the CTS-V. I don't even see how GM can offer V6's in anything other than Cadillacs to meet 35 mpg CAFE.

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There's NO acceptable reason, (even if gas stayed at $3.50+/gallon) to have

a Camaro without a V8. This is more knee-jerk stupidity.

No V8 option? not a Camaro

FWD? not a Camaro!

transverse motor? NOT a Camaro!

I think I've made myself clear.

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Will a V8 even fit in the Gamma platform?:huh:
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The Camaro will need to get substantially over 30 mpg, since trucks will be averaged in the 35 mpg CAFE. I don't see how GM can offer V8's in any cars other than the Corvette and maybe the CTS-V. I don't even see how GM can offer V6's in anything other than Cadillacs to meet 35 mpg CAFE.

From a marketing perspective, Camaro always benchmarks Mustang closely. If the next gen Mustang has a V8, Chevy will be under lots of pressure to follow suit. If Camaro's base models are equipped with I4 or turbo I4's getting 35 mpg, from a smaller, lighter Camaro - I can also imagine this smaller lighter Camaro getting over 30 mpg with a Gen 5 smallblock of around 5.0L.

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Take a look at the difference in MPG between current V8 cars and V6 cars, the difference is minimal at best.

No, I won't make that trade.

'sides, GM has been building V8 cars that can crack 30 MPG in real-world mileage for about a decade now.

Lighter cars are the answer (well, most of it).

A V8 is part of Camaro's DNA - it is a requirement.

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I have been wondering though, why so many V6 cars get such lousy MPG.

I think that might be a place to find quite a bit of improvement in the CAFE numbers.

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The Camaro will need to get substantially over 30 mpg, since trucks will be averaged in the 35 mpg CAFE. I don't see how GM can offer V8's in any cars other than the Corvette and maybe the CTS-V. I don't even see how GM can offer V6's in anything other than Cadillacs to meet 35 mpg CAFE.

It's all about the production volume, sales trends should help considerably (at least at first).

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For the love of GoD why the F*** is GM not building a modern BOP 215 like last 2005?

I'm not saying the Camaro needs a 6.0 litter or even a 5.7 liter V8, but how about a

mini-V8, PUSHROD, in two or three displacements. Like say a 3.0, 3.5 and 4.0 liter

sizes, the 3.0 being the "frugal", low compression, 87-octane drinking "STANDARD"

V8 motor for the Impala & Camaro, the 3.5 being the sporty, high volume variant &

the 4.0 being the "all out" :rolleyes: Z/28 and SS motor.

Case closed, put a fork in it!

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While I find the idea of small V8s very interesting, you can't gain enough simply by dropping the displacement. You'd have to engineer a new line of V8s with a smaller and lighter overall envelope to really get the full benefit. I like that idea in principle, but it would be enormously expensive and would have implications for anything carrying a v8 option including trucks. As much as I hate to say it, I just can't see GM springing for two different V8 families given the times.

Still, I wish that they would.

A new twist on the old big block/small block approach would be very cool.

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The 4.9L DI V8 shown in the GMC Denali XT seems promising. If they can force induce it and produce a variety of small blocks and by love of God have the HCCI ready by then, it will be a good V8 family.

If they can punch out about 400 HP N/A of that engine (I cannot see a reason why not DI 3.6 V6 = 84.4 hp/l, DI V8 = 81.6 hp/l) it will be a capable engine with decent fuel economy.

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Camino:

3/4 scale LS-series V8, reworked to accept 1:1-scale hardware (bolts, bearings etc.)

I know it's a bit more complicated than that but the superiority of a pushrod V8 in

terms of reliability and efficiency (as you said opposed to DOHC V6s) coupled with

small displacement would guarantee (imho) a virtual silver bullet solution!

As you said: BIG and small blocks.... the 21st century "small block" has 1960s BIG

block output.... time for a new gen SMALL block. :wink:

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The 4.9L DI V8 shown in the GMC Denali XT seems promising. If they can force induce it and produce a variety of small blocks and by love of God have the HCCI ready by then, it will be a good V8 family.

If they can punch out about 400 HP N/A of that engine (I cannot see a reason why not DI 3.6 V6 = 84.4 hp/l, DI V8 = 81.6 hp/l) it will be a capable engine with decent fuel economy.

Good steps for now, but what about ten years out?

If they did create a smaller V8 envelope, it could give the V8 a much longer lifespan.

Could be very, very, cool.

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Camino:

3/4 scale LS-series V8, reworked to accept 1:1-scale hardware (bolts, bearings etc.)

I know it's a bit more complicated than that but the superiority of a pushrod V8 in

terms of reliability and efficiency (as you said opposed to DOHC V6s) coupled with

small displacement would guarantee (imho) a virtual silver bullet solution!

As you said: BIG and small blocks.... the 21st century "small block" has 1960s BIG

block output.... time for a new gen SMALL block. :wink:

That's the recipe! :AH-HA_wink:

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Good steps for now, but what about ten years out?

If they did create a smaller V8 envelope, it could give the V8 a much longer lifespan.

Could be very, very, cool.

HCCI seems to be coming off age and looks promising. I think future is HCCI for the ICE. A DI with HCCI will make a good pair and GM does not have to sweat a lot for creating a good solid architecture based on their experience with V-8.

A family with 3.5L, 4.0L and 5.0L will be a good offering.

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That's the recipe! :AH-HA_wink:

EDIT:

It would also allow for Physically smaller transmissions, driveshafts, rear diffs,brakes, and so on.

A perfect driveline for smaller, lighter cars.

Imagine the "big block swaps" people would dream up!

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HCCI seems to be coming off age and looks promising. I think future is HCCI for the ICE. A DI with HCCI will make a good pair and GM does not have to sweat a lot for creating a good solid architecture based on their experience with V-8.

A family with 3.5L, 4.0L and 5.0L will be a good offering.

I have no doubt of that, just wanted to look ahead a bit farther. Of course, that tech could also apply at a 3/4 scale.

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EDIT:

It would also allow for Physically smaller transmissions, driveshafts, rear diffs,brakes, and so on.

A perfect driveline for smaller, lighter cars.

Imagine the "big block swaps" people would dream up!

Great minds think alike!!!

longitudinal mounted motors, RWD and Baby-V8s with great MPG FTW!

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Just imagine a fifth gen Camaro reproduced at 3/4 scale ( in all the "hardparts") and I think we'd have a real winner.

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Of course GM would have to pull-off a record-breaking turnaround first to be able to afford it.

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It needs a V8. It needs to offer one in a mainstream performance trim and let the folks decide whether they want it or not. I would find a 5.0L V8 acceptable. I am not sure if I'd do a stripped V8 Camaro or loaded V6 yet.

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