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balthazar

The ACORN falls not far from The One tree

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ACORN describes itself as a “non-partisan” group devoted to helping the poor and to registering millions to vote. The organization has at least 350,000 dues-paying member families, and more than 850 chapters spread among at least 104 U.S. cities.

Selectively adding millions of Democratic names to the voter rolls remains one of ACORN’s most lucrative activities, for which this organization has been given millions of dollars by organized labor, non-profit foundations, and Democratic-controlled government agencies.

“Instead of trying to overturn ‘the system — to blow it up, as Wiley (one of ACORN's original New Leftist founders) wanted to do, ACORN burrows deep within the system,” wrote Manhattan Institute scholar Sol Stern, adding, “taking over its power and using its institutions for its own purposes, like a political ‘Invasion of the Body Snatchers.’”

-- -- -- -- --

Critics & law enforcement (FBI included) accuse ACORN of involvement vote fraud, voter intimidation, shakedowns against businesses, and the promotion of socialist class hatred and class warfare.

ACORN has a public record of highly-publicized voter fraud allegations lodged against it :: OH ('04), WI ('04), FL ('04), NM ('04), CO ('05), MO ('06), WA (2007), IN ('08), MI ('08), NV ('08), MO ('08), plus numerous other instances, numerous cases resulting in indictments and convictions.

Recent news stories have reported 1 man was bribed with cigarettes & cash, to the tune of regsitering 72 times. A dog and the lineup of the Dallas Cowboys are just some of the 4 million voters that ACORN’s Project Vote claims to have helped register nationwide.

And although Acorn is supposedly a "non-partisan" entity, they have participated in every Democratic Convention since '80 with members elected as delegates, and ACORN Votes -ACORN's national Political Action Committee- :wacko: , endorsed Obama during the '08 Democratic Presidential Primary. Let's see why:

Obama was the Illinois director of ACORN’s controversial voter registration operation, and he trained the group’s leaders in the ways of radical, confrontational politics. He also paid ACORN affiliates during his recent Democratic primary contest. Leading up to the '08 OH Democratic Primary, Obama’s campaign paid Citizens Services, Inc. (a subsidiary of ACORN) $832,598 between Feb. 25 & March 17.

Obama was its lawyer in several pivotal ACORN cases & funded a number of its activities, as well. When he sat on the board of the prestigious Woods Fund for Chicago alongside former Weather Underground terrorist William Ayers, he oversaw and approved many grants for ACORN.

The Fund’s "non-ideological" public image "enabled the Trustees to make grants to organizations that use confrontational tactics against the business and government ‘establishments’ without undue risk of being accused of partisanship." --Woods Fund Committee Report

-- -- -- -- --

Obama’s mysterious, shrouded past as a “community organizer” is closely tied to ACORN, but apparently worried by the connection, his campaign has put claims of his ties to ACORN as a leading 'denial' item on its “Fight The Smears” Web site — a site the Obama campaign created to counter what they claim are partisan lies made up against their candidate. Unfortunately for the candidate's credibility, his campaign's own websites are bathed in self-hypocrisy ~

>>"• Fact: Barack was never an ACORN community organizer."<< --fightthesmears.com

>>"When Obama met with ACORN leaders in November, he reminded them of his history with ACORN & his beginnings in IL as a Project Vote organizer, a nonprofit focused on voter rights & education.

Obama said, ‘I come out of a grassroots organizing background. That's what I did for three and half years before I went to law school. That's the reason I moved to Chicago was to organize. So this is something that I know personally, the work you do, the importance of it. I've been fighting alongside ACORN on issues you care about my entire career. Even before I was an elected official, when I ran Project Vote voter registration drive in Illinois, ACORN was smack dab in the middle of it, and we appreciate your work.” --Obama's website

>>"• Fact: ACORN never hired Obama as a trainer, organizer, or any type of employee."<< --fightthesmears.com

>>"Obama Trained Registrars And Ran Media Saturation Campaign. Chicago Magazine reported, “Within a few months, Obama, a tall, affable workaholic, had recruited staff and volunteers from black churches, community groups, and politicians. He helped train 700 deputy registrars, out of a total of 11,000 citywide. And he began a saturation media campaign with the help of black-owned Brainstorm Communications.” --Chicago Magazine, 1/93"<< --fightthesmears.com

>>"• Fact: ACORN was not part of Project Vote, the successful voter registration drive Barack ran in 1992."<< --fightthesmears.com

>>"Project Vote often coordinates voter registration campaigns with local chapters of ACORN..."<< -- wikipedia :rolleyes:

>>"The National Voter Registration Act (of 1993) Implementation Project—a partnership between Project Vote, ACORN and Demos—aims to improve voter registration services at public assistance agencies."<< -- projectvote.org

>>"Project Vote! is nonpartisan, strictly nonpartisan." -- Chicago Magazine, 1/93"<< --fightthesmears.com

>>"“Voting experts at the DNC point to surging registration in several big cities, such as Detroit, Chicago and Philadelphia. Most of that work has been done by the nonpartisan Project Vote. Its director, Sandy Newman, says his group has helped to register 150,000 new voters, almost all of them black, in Pennsylvania; 110,000 in Chicago; 70,000 in Michigan; 40,000 in Ohio; and 160,000 (with the help of the New York Public Interest Research Group) in New York City. ...most of these voters will cast their ballots for Mr. Clinton.” --Wall Street Journal, 10/92"<< --fightthesmears.com

Fact is, even tho they possibly may not have been legally linked, ACORN & Project Vote not only worked side by side & repeatedly, they were of the same ideology and involved a lot of the same people, and Obama unquestionably was involved in the practices & results both operation's utilized.

-- -- -- -- --

Because Obama had worked closely with Madeline Talbott in 1995 (one of ACORN's leaders), she specifically sought out this radical young lawyer to help craft its lawsuit to impose President Clinton’s '93 National Voter Registration Act, nicknamed “Motor Voter,” according to Chicago ACORN leader Toni Foulkes.

Obama’s ACORN lawsuit won, thereby slapping aside state officials who resisted Motor Voter because of what it soon proved to be: a 12-lane superhighway to massive voter fraud.

The Motor Voter law required bureaucrats at welfare offices, the Department of Motor Vehicles & other government offices to register as voters those who used their services. “Examiners were under orders not to ask anyone for identification or proof of citizenship. States also had to permit mail-in voter registrations, which allowed anyone to register without any personal contact with a registrar or election official.” --Wall Street Journal reporter John Fund in his book “Stealing Elections: How Voter Fraud Threatens Our Democracy.”

As a completely unrelated sidebar, "at least 6 of the 19 Sept 11th terrorists were registered voters." -- Newsmax.com

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

This is a hugely-complicated issue (there's a lot more to it that the above), but hard data has, as usual, been consistantly sparse and/or lacking, but -oh boy!- the stink is there. I have been asking for details of BO's background throughout '08, as have untold others. Even here I have asked this predominantly Democratic-supporting body of members for details, yet no one bothered to answer even 1 inquiry. I know why- you don't know either. What I don't know is- why don't you care?

All the rotten & criminal associations and back-room deals- it's ONLY and ALWAYS about money & power - Obama is no GDamned different in the LEAST. More of the same, just more subversive this time around. NO change, NO hope.

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I have been asking for details of BO's background throughout '08, as have untold others. Even here I have asked this predominantly Democratic-supporting body of members for details, yet no one bothered to answer even 1 inquiry. I know why- you don't know either.

I've been asking for McCain's economic policy for months now. Nada.

And speaking of voter fraud, how about those absentee ballot request mailers McCain sent out, you know, the ones with the "I am a registered voter" box that if unchecked would prevent the voter from getting an absentee ballot, and possibly even purge them from the rolls.

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I have been asking for details of BO's background throughout '08, as have untold others. Even here I have asked this predominantly Democratic-supporting body of members for details, yet no one bothered to answer even 1 inquiry. I know why- you don't know either. What I don't know is- why don't you care?

What are you talking about? You've found out quite a bit about Obama--you know his father was Kenyan, his mother American. He was born in Hawaii, and grew up on the south side of Chicago with his single mother after his father abandoned him. You know he was into drugs and turned his life around by becoming a community organizer. Obama went to Occidental College in Los Angeles for 2 years before transferring to Columbia and getting his BA. Then he went to Harvard Law. You know his father went back to Africa and started another family there. You know that Obama is a Christian, and used to attend the Trinity United Church of Christ. He has a beautiful wife, and two wonderful daughters.

This information isn't really all that hard to find. There's this one website that's almost a clearinghouse for information--it's called "Wikipedia," and it has even more information if you feel you need to know even more details about Barack Obama.

All the rotten & criminal associations and back-room deals- it's ONLY and ALWAYS about money & power - Obama is no GDamned different in the LEAST. More of the same, just more subversive this time around. NO change, NO hope.

And the response from ACORN on the recent raid in Nevada:

Over the past year, ACORN has worked hard to help over 80,000 people in Clark County register to vote. As part of our nonpartisan voter registration program, we have review all the applications submitted by our canvassers. When we have identified suspicious applications, we have separated them out and flagged them for election officials. We have zero tolerance for fraudulent registrations. We immediately dismiss employees we suspect of submitting fraudulent registrations.

For the past 10 months, any time ACORN has identified a potentially fraudulent application, we turn that application into election officials separately and offer to provide election officials with the information they would need to pursue an investigation or prosecution of the individual.

Election officials routinely ignored this information and failed to act. In early July, ACORN asked to meet with election officials to express our concerns that they were not acting on information ACORN had presented to them. ACORN met with Clark County elections officials and a representative of the Secretary of State on July 17th. ACORN pleaded with them to take our concerns about fraudulent applications seriously. One week later, elections officials asked us to provide them with a second copy of what we had previously provided to them. ACORN responded by giving election officials copies of 46 "problem application packages," which involved 33 former canvassers.

On September 23, ACORN had received a subpoena dated September 19th requesting information on 15 employees, all of whom had been included in the packages we had previously submitted to election officials. ACORN provided our personnel records on these 15 employees on September 29.

Today's raid by the Secretary of State's Office is a stunt that serves no useful purpose other than discredit our work registering Nevadans and distracting us from the important work ahead of getting every eligible voter to the polls.

And while I know full well you won't believe a word of it, all of those seeming "contradictions" you bolded regarding Obama and ACORN are not really contradictions.

>>"• Fact: Barack was never an ACORN community organizer."<< --fightthesmears.com

>>"When Obama met with ACORN leaders in November, he reminded them of his history with ACORN & his beginnings in IL as a Project Vote organizer, a nonprofit focused on voter rights & education.

Obama said, ‘I come out of a grassroots organizing background. That's what I did for three and half years before I went to law school. That's the reason I moved to Chicago was to organize. So this is something that I know personally, the work you do, the importance of it. I've been fighting alongside ACORN on issues you care about my entire career. Even before I was an elected official, when I ran Project Vote voter registration drive in Illinois, ACORN was smack dab in the middle of it, and we appreciate your work.” --Obama's website

His history of joining them in a lawsuit and working toward similar goals without actually being affiliated. ACORN doesn't have a monopoly on community organizing.

>>"• Fact: ACORN never hired Obama as a trainer, organizer, or any type of employee."<< --fightthesmears.com

>>"Obama Trained Registrars And Ran Media Saturation Campaign. Chicago Magazine reported, “Within a few months, Obama, a tall, affable workaholic, had recruited staff and volunteers from black churches, community groups, and politicians. He helped train 700 deputy registrars, out of a total of 11,000 citywide. And he began a saturation media campaign with the help of black-owned Brainstorm Communications.” --Chicago Magazine, 1/93"<< --fightthesmears.com

Again, ACORN isn't the only community organizing group in the United States.

>>"• Fact: ACORN was not part of Project Vote, the successful voter registration drive Barack ran in 1992."<< --fightthesmears.com

>>"Project Vote often coordinates voter registration campaigns with local chapters of ACORN..."<< -- wikipedia rolleyes.gif

>>"The National Voter Registration Act (of 1993) Implementation Project—a partnership between Project Vote, ACORN and Demos—aims to improve voter registration services at public assistance agencies."<< -- projectvote.org

Often =/= Always. Obama did Project Vote in 1992, yet your "evidence" citing a contradiction is for a 1993 partnership. Did you misread, or are you trying to obfuscate the facts?

For the record, it seems Project Vote and ACORN often work together on many things, but they are separate organizations, and it appears were more separate back in the 1980s and early 1990s than they are now.

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I'm just curious Balthy.... if McCain were involved with ACORN, would you heap the same scorn on him for it?

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ACORN suddenly is an issue with Republicans? They have been going through the courts trying to get as many Democrats as they can removed from voting lists. They intimidated the "hanging chad" counters in Dade County. They try to get laws passed to keep African-Americans and Hispanics from voting. The thing about ACORN is that all of the questionable registrations have been caught in advance. This ACORN scandal is just more AM radio nonesense.

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I have been asking for details of BO's background throughout '08, as have untold others. Even here I have asked this predominantly Democratic-supporting body of members for details, yet no one bothered to answer even 1 inquiry.

What is so critical that you need to know about him that you can't find? If you can't find it on the Internet already, then it's probably something ridiculously irrelevant. It's not like we all have a big Obama handbook of information, we know as much as you do, and find most of that information on the web just like you. Perhaps the people who you are asking simply don't want to do research for you.

Just because many of us are going to vote for Obama, doesn't mean we're a "Democratic-supporting body of members". That's one heck of a blanket statement. I personally don't care for democrats over republicans or vice versa, and I am probably voting Republican for state governor.

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Nobody take offense, because I'm going to be blunt. Anyone who believes Barack Obama instructed ACORN to illegally register voters, or even that he knew what they were doing on the ground level, is an idiot.

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Croc ->>"What are you talking about? You've found out quite a bit about Obama...."<<

I knew all that and I didn't learn it here or on wikipedia {insert obligatory :rolleyes: at wiki mention as reliable information source}. I'm not referring to his personal family past, but his credentials-for-the-job past. You listed just one single thing that has any real bearing on his intended future job; community organizer, everything else is superfluous fluff. and he has never defined what being a C.O. entailed. Why?

>>"ACORN doesn't have a monopoly on community organizing."<<

Nor does it have a monopoly on fraudulent voter registration.

But if BO feels being identified as an ACORN community organizer is to the point it needs to be debunked as a 'smear', then why did BO mention being 'in the smack dab middle' with ACORN and thank them for their work? No denouncement? Can't you see this is at odds with itself?

>>"Obama did Project Vote in 1992, yet your "evidence" citing a contradiction is for a 1993 partnership. Did you misread, or are you trying to obfuscate the facts?"<<

Did you think the NVRAIP only took a few months to design, organize, lobby, draw up & vote in, or were you purposely being obtuse?

Olds ->>"I'm just curious Balthy.... if McCain were involved with ACORN, would you heap the same scorn on him for it? "<<

Of course; the practices & events were dishonest & illegal in some instances. Facts are facts, cheating is cheating, being a grabass opportunist is being a grabass opportunist. Why would I not condemn McCain.... ahhhhh: you are assuming I support him. If so, you likewise seem to be assuming I would excuse any & every potentially damaging incident & damning accusation in order to see my candidate get in, right ? :wink:

SoCal CTS ->>"The thing about ACORN is that all of the questionable registrations have been caught in advance."<<

Then how come there were multiple indictments for registration fraud ? Why is the FBI currently involved in an investigation if everything was caught "beforehand"? How did 1 man register 72 times? Why are there efforts to pull their federal funding? You & Croc are reading an ACORN spin doctor PR piece; of course they are going to fein outrage and lie thru their teeth to protect their $$.

siegen ->>"What is so critical that you need to know about him that you can't find? If you can't find it on the Internet already, then it's probably something ridiculously irrelevant."<<

What- it's not possible that hidden information could be ridiculously damaging ? I give you two quotes:

"I did not have sex with that woman."

"In fact I DID have sex with Miss Lewinsky."

Dirt is admitted to when it's revealed and no sooner in the political world. I point you to Edwards locking himself in the hotel bathroom from reporters at 2AM. They all have dirt, some have a few tons of it. They deny & deny as long as possible. Some have alledged that BO is using a few new tactics, such as the race card, to avoid serious scrutiny. He obviosuly has shielded details about his past, because we still know only bits-n-pieces 3 weeks from the election.

What would I like to know? Thanks for asking, I hope you can provide the answers :

I'd like to know what he studied in the colleges, under who and what grades he recieved. His professional background is so skimpy, we are forced to consider schooling experience in the measure of the man.

I'd like to know details about his 'community organizer' years- with whom, under what organizations, what programs he worked on and what he accomplished.

I'd like to see a list of his clients and their case overviews that he handled as a lawyer.

I'd like to know even a little bit about his political allies and the Woods Fund's activities.

The man is a ghost.

-- -- -- -- --

Let me ask you guys this: in all honesty, is there ANYTHING about Barack Obama and his bid for president that you are able to question? Is there even ONE THING you wish was somehow different, or wish was clarified for your sake, nevermind 'the opposition's' ? An icy finger of doubt anywhere ?

Edited by balthazar
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Olds ->>"I'm just curious Balthy.... if McCain were involved with ACORN, would you heap the same scorn on him for it? "<<

Of course; the practices & events were dishonest & illegal in some instances. Facts are facts, cheating is cheating, being a grabass opportunist is being a grabass opportunist. Why would I not condemn McCain.... ahhhhh: you are assuming I support him. If so, you likewise seem to be assuming I would excuse any & every potentially damaging incident & damning accusation in order to see my candidate get in, right ? :wink:

Ok... good... cause you know this pic of McCain at an ACORN meeting surfaced today....... just sayin.

The beleaguered Democratic-leaning community group Acorn sends over this photograph: John McCain, in March of 2006, sitting beside Florida Rep. Kendrick Meek at an event Acorn co-sponsored in Florida.

The immigration event, which other photos show was packed with red-shirted Acorn member, was co-sponsored by the local Catholic Archdiocese, the SEIU, and other groups.

McCain, still spiting much of his party on immigration at the time, was the headliner.

Bertha Lewis, Acorn's chief organizer, said in a statement that came with the photo, “It has deeply saddened us to see Senator McCain abandon his historic support for ACORN and our efforts to support the goals of low-income Americans."

”We are sure that the extremists he is trying to get into a froth will be even more excited to learn that John McCain stood shoulder to shoulder with ACORN, at an ACORN co-sponsored event, to promote immigration reform," she said.

mccainacorn.jpg

He'd rather win the election than maintain his integrity.

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siegen ->>"What is so critical that you need to know about him that you can't find? If you can't find it on the Internet already, then it's probably something ridiculously irrelevant."<<

What- it's not possible that hidden information could be ridiculously damaging ? I give you two quotes:

"I did not have sex with that woman."

"In fact I DID have sex with Miss Lewinsky."

Dirt is admitted to when it's revealed and no sooner in the political world. I point you to Edwards locking himself in the hotel bathroom from reporters at 2AM. They all have dirt, some have a few tons of it. They deny & deny as long as possible. Some have alledged that BO is using a few new tactics, such as the race card, to avoid serious scrutiny. He obviosuly has shielded details about his past, because we still know only bits-n-pieces 3 weeks from the election.

What would I like to know? Thanks for asking, I hope you can provide the answers :

I'd like to know what he studied in the colleges, under who and what grades he recieved. His professional background is so skimpy, we are forced to consider schooling experience in the measure of the man.

I'd like to know details about his 'community organizer' years- with whom, under what organizations, what programs he worked on and what he accomplished.

I'd like to see a list of his clients and their case overviews that he handled as a lawyer.

I'd like to know even a little bit about his political allies and the Woods Fund's activities.

The man is a ghost.

-- -- -- -- --

Let me ask you guys this: in all honesty, is there ANYTHING about Barack Obama and his bid for president that you are able to question? Is there even ONE THING you wish was somehow different, or wish was clarified for your sake, nevermind 'the opposition's' ? An icy finger of doubt anywhere ?

If Obama in an interview is asked what organizations he worked for, or what he studied, and he dodges the question or refuses to answer, then there will be some eyebrows raised for sure. But just because bits of information here and there haven't been posted on any popular websites or attained any media attention, doesn't mean that it must be dirt! Like I said, you have the same tools as everyone else does to find the information.

I have doubts about Obama, sure, everyone does even if they don't admit it. There are positives and negatives to every single person and every single presidential candidate. I don't like it when Obama bases an argument on a criticism of McCain or Bush. I question whether or not Obama will be able to implement his health care plan how he wants to, and if it will work as well as he wants it to, and if it is good for America. I worry about how he will pull us out of Iraq, and if he will do it intelligently. Among various other worries or questions. Who doesn't have these kinds of doubts about every president? In my opinion, it's between choosing someone who is ready to be president, although he's a little new, but is an intelligent and competent person; and choosing someone who has few skills outside of politics, comes off like he would kill to get into the white house, and picks the absolute worst possible VP.

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The more I find out about B.H.O. the less I like the guy.

http://www.panasianbiz.com/2008/10/09/39-b...terry-anderson/

Too bad that McCain, although the lesser of two evils, is no shining star himself.

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I was never a big fan of Hillary Clinton, however, I sort of feel like I'd rather vote for her than either Obama or McCain. *shrugs*

+1

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I have never been, am not now, nor will ever be a fan of Hell666ry Clinton.

She's a carpet-bagger, opportunist, anit-american & liar of epic proportions.

Edited by Sixty8panther
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I also wish Hillary was the candidate. She is the most honest, sincere and intelligent candidate ever. She's religious without being hateful. She's tolerant and not at all elitist. She will be president some day.

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I also wish Hillary was the candidate. She is the most honest, sincere and intelligent candidate ever. She's religious without being hateful. She's tolerant and not at all elitist. She will be president some day.

I like Hillary, and would vote for her if she were the nominee, but I like Obama much better. I find it interesting you consider Hilary honest and sincere, because those are two qualities I find lacking in her that made me vote against her in the primary. She's a great policy wonk IMO, but her empathetic people skills leave a lot to be desired.

I do think she has a shot in 4-8 years, though.

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I like Hillary, and would vote for her if she were the nominee, but I like Obama much better. I find it interesting you consider Hilary honest and sincere, because those are two qualities I find lacking in her that made me vote against her in the primary. She's a great policy wonk IMO, but her empathetic people skills leave a lot to be desired.

I do think she has a shot in 4-8 years, though.

Obama seems to be sincere but so many questions have arisen regarding his past that while I feel he is honest, I feel Hillary is more honest.

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Obama seems to be sincere but so many questions have arisen regarding his past that while I feel he is honest, I feel Hillary is more honest.

Well, i am totally not a fan of Hillary, but i would 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000x prefer her in the white house than obama.

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Nothing Balthazar? I was hoping you were going to comment on McCain participating in ACORN events like you said you would......

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This whole campaign, running unprecedentally long, really has me wearied. BO is going to get in based on fluff and turning a blind eye to whomever he may be, and McCain is NOT my choice, either (even tho I do feel he definately has more credibility than BO). I never stumped for JM on this board (or any other), so your automatic assumption that it's nothing but 'us vs. them' or 'you vs. me' is off; the hope that I'm going to get in a snit over these much looser connections that you dismiss with a wave of the hand as completely unimportant in BO's case... ain't gonna happen. If you feel it's meaningless for BO, you must believe they're meaningless for JM, if you are approaching this entire matter levelly (tho I'm not saying that's the case).

According to all I've read, BO is far too untested, unproven & undocumented to be 'running the country', and the liberal mainstream media is nothing but a propaganda machine anymore, desperate for ratings in a shrinking market, so you certainly aren't going to see real investigative journalism from any of them. That's why this stuff needs to get out. If BO had a mainstream political background instead of a closely shielded one with a long roster of crazies & radicals, he's already have a monster lead instead of barely squeeking by with only a few weeks left.

I don't give a sh!t if he black or white or what his family situation is, but I do value his life experiences and influences, because they tell me far more about what he might do in different situations that the complete bullsh!t spewed out on the trail. Most of those experiences he's kept completely under wraps or has been brazenly obscure on, and the rest that's come out is certainly not reassuring. I value these things far more than the superfluous, but that's all we really have. It sucks- this could've been the country's Neo in reality, instead it's just a carefully crafted illusion.

RE: the pic- It should be obvious that sitting in an ACORN meeting 1 day and having your picture taken is world's away from training hundreds recruiters in questionable tactics and defending the organization in numerous lawsuits over a period of years... but you won't agree on that, I know.

What the F am I going to do in the booth on the 4th ??

Edited by balthazar
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