MT: The Escalade V Is Coming.

[El Kabong]

http://m.motortrend.com/wot/1509_cadillac_escalade_v_on_the_way_with_ctsv_power.html

So basically, it's entirely possible that the Bentley SUV will only be the world's fastest SUV for a cup of coffee. Yowza

[David]

Always wanted an ESV V

[Drew Dowdell]

Bentley will hold the title for a short minute.

[ccap41]

Are we talking top speed or a 1/4 mile pass..?

[El Kabong]

Possibly both. Depends on the strength of the LT4 install, I guess.

[ccap41]

I think it would be a nice face push if GM could "rush"(mostly meaning I hope GM has already been working on this for awhile and just finish it up) this to market so the Bentley never even gets the crown. ..The Bentey isn't for sale yet, right..?

 

I am also really curious on the output of this. I know the Z06 is 650/650 and the CTS is 640/630 . Will this be just in like with those two or a slight detune because it isn't the halo car like the Z06 and CTS-V are? It seems like that would be the case but with this being the actual LARGEST of the 3 and the one that will be able to hadle the most cooling for all of the components I could see it actually going up. If for nothing else than to upstage the Bentley.

[El Kabong]

I doubt it'll get the dry-sump. There's plenty of underhood space and you aren't really going to affect the centre of gravity by using it in something this big.

I'd say the most likely situation is it gets the full CTS-V tune and transmission. At roughly nine pounds per horsepower you could be looking at 0-60 times in line with a 392 Hemi Challenger. Top speed would require some lowering, but it might be able to get to 187. Maybe.

[Drew Dowdell]

Would be interesting if they put a variable height suspension in it. Then it could drop the height as the speed increased.

[El Kabong]

It would be nice. Variable height suspension is a cool thing. Introduce it on the Eacalade and then spread it through the lineup.

[ccap41]

Would be interesting if they put a variable height suspension in it. Then it could drop the height as the speed increased.

Kind of like the JGC's?

 

That would not only be a great idea for numbers sake but for safety's sake as well.

 

@'Bong

I think that article you linked did say they will be lowering it. For all I know it could be a 1/4 inch or 2 inches though so just saying it will be lowered is very vague.

[El Kabong]

Ya, when I read that I got the impression it would be more of a conventional drop, like a Trackhawk suspension. But air springs would be cool, fer sure.

[David]

Hopefully they will show this at Dubai and LA this year along with the XT5. That would Rock!

[ccap41]

I'm also really curious about how aggressive they will get with the aero bits; Front facia, side skirts, hood.

[oldshurst442]

Hopefully they will show this at Dubai and LA this year along with the XT5. That would Rock!

Id do Geneva and Moscow before Dubai and LA..

 

You want to have international diplomats take a look at this thing.

I bet the Russian Mafia would be LOVE this thing too...

Edited September 10, 2015 by oldshurst442

[El Kabong]

In Soviet Russia dub-twos roll on YOU!

[oldshurst442]

Just re-hashing the same post that I made over at the XT5 thread.

But still relevant for the Escalase V.

 

I came across this pic...maybe Dubai IS the place for the 'Slade V to debut

 

Nothing says prestige in 2015 as having a couple of star studded press shots with Sheikhs around your car....

[El Kabong]

Rock the Casbah, man.

[David]

 

Hopefully they will show this at Dubai and LA this year along with the XT5. That would Rock!

Id do Geneva and Moscow before Dubai and LA..

 

You want to have international diplomats take a look at this thing.

I bet the Russian Mafia would be LOVE this thing too...

 

Let's add in the Yakusa to that Bling loving look.

 

V Baby Baby, V Baby Baby!

[Drew Dowdell]

Just re-hashing the same post that I made over at the XT5 thread.

But still relevant for the Escalase V.

 

I came across this pic...maybe Dubai IS the place for the 'Slade V to debut

 

Nothing says prestige in 2015 as having a couple of star studded press shots with Sheikhs around your car....

 

Besides, they're the only ones who can afford to fuel it. 

[smk4565]

Every Air Matic Mecedes automatically lowers ride height at highway speed, I believe the Range Rover does also.  Putting an air suspension on the Escalade is easy, but you still have to deal with a .36 drag coefficient and a lot of surface area to push though the air so drag is going to limit top speed.  Plus a 6,000 weight. 

 

The Escalade now has a top speed of 113 mph (governor limited).  But you have to figure that limiter is there because of tire blow out concerns and the drag limited speed is probably not all that much higher.  I don't know where you get an extra 75 mph of top speed out of the Escalade.

 

Plus an Escalade V-series would compete more with an AMG GL63.  I don't think it would be in Bentley territory.  And what about an XT5-V to compete with the X5 M and GLE63?  Why not put a 600 hp V8 in that front wheel drive crossover Cadillac is about to launch, and they need a Porsche Macan competitor, so they need an ATS-V powertrain in an XT3 crossover.  But XT3 is rumored to be based on D2XX, so I guess that won't work either.

[balthazar]

Escalade @ .36 is pretty amazing. G-wagon is .54.

[El Kabong]

Yeah, the G-Wagen is a complete brick. I'm interested in seeing what the Bentley's Cd and frontal area are. That will tell the tale for whether a 188mph Escalade is feasible.

[smk4565]

Porsche Cayenne has a .37 cD, and the Mercedes GL is a .38 cD.

 

The Cayenne Turbo S can do 171 mph, the GL63 is electronically limited to 155 mph.  With the Escalade though, you have to look at weight and chassis too, and find tires that can support the weight and speed.   But the GM truck platform was never made for 150 mph speed, let alone 190 mph speed.  There are a lot of factors working against it getting an Escalade to add 75 mph to the top speed.

 

If they had made the XT5 and future XT3 of the Alpha platform, and did an XT7 off Omega, they could have had the chassis that would have been capable of competing with the German performance SUVs.  I'd suggest maybe an Omega platform SUV could be above Escalade, but then you mess up the naming structure because Cadillac wants it both ways with XT and CT, but then have a word name product.  It should all be one or the other.

Edited September 12, 2015 by smk4565

[oldshurst442]

Are we seriously arguing what a bonafide BOF truck platform can and cannot do with high speeds and cornering?

 

Seriously...that is some effed up shyte...

And Im the first to say WTF regarding high center of gravity SUVs and manufacturers turning them into speeding freight trains...

 

However...SMK...I wouldnt UNDERestimate if I were you...its not as if GM/Chevrolet havent done something similar before where they could learn how to do a 'Slade V properly...to handle the speed and the cornering...

 

 

I WILL SAY THIS THOUGH...MAYBE THIS IS WHERE INDEPENDENT REAR SUSPENSION COMES IN HANDY...but that quibble is meant for another poster...just enjoy the vids...

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2015 by oldshurst442

[El Kabong]

It's all theoretical really. But when you have rules and regulations impeding true progress, you tend to try to maximize what you can do in every single market segment you can.

[oldshurst442]

I ran out of time so this post is in conjuction to the post I made above...

 

I think GM with GM performance parts and Chevy with the Police Vehicle Programs and Corvette and Camaro Racing Programs along with Cadillac engineering technologies such as magnetic shocks and the like...I wouldnt worry too much about an Escalade V handling all that V8 power...

 

The Police Pack Tahoe seems to have gotten the handling down pat...

 

Let us not forget that it was GM and Cadillac that developed the Presidential Beast...this one and the next generation...

 

 

and that the Beast is on a HEAVIER DUTIER Truck platform...and I betcha that the Presidential Beast handles the twisties...like a Beast...not too mention all the CIA Suburbans that go along with it...

[smk4565]

Tahoe police package is a far cry from the level of performance we are talking about.  To get to Bentley SUV performance, we are talking about making an Escalade accelerate and have a top speed like an ATS-V or Corvette Stingray.  I don't think it can be done.   They can make a faster Escalade, it isn't going to out perform that Bentley.

[oldshurst442]

It's all theoretical really. But when you have rules and regulations impeding true progress, you tend to try to maximize what you can do in every single market segment you can.

about independent rear suspension I gather...your post is referring to?

 

And yeah, I agree. And Chevy/Cadillac engineers have done the most they could have with the rear suspension of a BOF truck...

 

The reason why I say that...its because...its a BOF truck that weighs 5000 lbs or so...and handling...up until now, was not an issue to be addressed as handling was not a quality that GM nor its customers of these behemoths were asking...

[oldshurst442]

Tahoe police package is a far cry from the level of performance we are talking about.  To get to Bentley SUV performance, we are talking about making an Escalade accelerate and have a top speed like an ATS-V or Corvette Stingray.  I don't think it can be done.   They can make a faster Escalade, it isn't going to out perform that Bentley.

Its a far cry?

 

Not really...its much closer than you think...its just that you have blinders on...

Its OK...Ive stated my case...there is no use in continuing because you just have a set agenda and you ALWAYS stick to it...

YOU are NOT interested in discussing and coming to a conclusion and middle ground...all YOU want to do is just press on through with your biased agenda...

[El Kabong]

It's all theoretical really. But when you have rules and regulations impeding true progress, you tend to try to maximize what you can do in every single market segment you can.

about independent rear suspension I gather...your post is referring to?

 

And yeah, I agree. And Chevy/Cadillac engineers have done the most they could have with the rear suspension of a BOF truck...

 

The reason why I say that...its because...its a BOF truck that weighs 5000 lbs or so...and handling...up until now, was not an issue to be addressed as handling was not a quality that GM nor its customers of these behemoths were asking...

No no, not the solid rear axle. Just the concept of driving an Escalade nearly 190mph. If you throw enough horsepower at anything it will go faster. The question then becomes will going faster be something you would then want to do.

200mph vehicles with solid rear axles are possible. Aston Martin used a DeDion rear end in nearly all its cars until the advent of the DB9. But the height and wheelbase of a big SUV would be the big hurdles.

[balthazar]

Tahoe police package is a far cry from the level of performance we are talking about.  To get to Bentley SUV performance, we are talking about making an Escalade accelerate and have a top speed like an ATS-V or Corvette Stingray.  I don't think it can be done.   They can make a faster Escalade, it isn't going to out perform that Bentley.

• Chassis has nothing to do with top speed.

• Multiple Escalades have already been built that go 0-60 solidly in 4 sec and have been tested over 130 MPH. A souped up version only needs to hit 150, IMO, not 190.

• Doesn't have to outperform anything, but a V-Sport E would be pretty cool and highly sought after anyway. At least it looks a lot more expensive & modern than the Bentley does (in pics). 

[Drew Dowdell]

SMK, Why on earth would you think that a body on frame vehicle can't go fast or handle well? 

[El Kabong]

Because the G-wagen doesn't, probably.

Edited September 13, 2015 by El Kabong

[ccap41]

Because the G-wagen doesn't, probably.

And they managed to make a performance version too..which he probably drools over.

[smk4565]

I don't think it has so much to do with body on frame or solid rear axle (although those aren't ideal for handling), as it does size and weight.  Cadillac fans praise how light the CTS or ATS are, yet call the S-class a fat pig at 4,700 lbs.  The Escalade is 5,800 lbs before you put a supercharger, bigger brakes, stiffening rods etc on, you are going to have a 6,000+ lb vehicle. 

 

I believe an Escalade V-sport makes a lot of sense, you bolt a supercharger on to the V8, put a body kit on, upgrade the brakes and suspension a bit and raise the governor to 140 mph and you could charge and extra $20k for it, and that is probably like $10-15k of extra equipment and development cost per vehicle.  That gives Cadillac $5k extra profit margin on a vehicle that already has good margins.

 

A Bentley killer with the Escalade isn't going to happen.  I don't think even Mercedes can get the GL up to 190 mph even with the V12.  I'd say only the Lamborghini SUV will topple the Bentley.

[smk4565]

G-wagen is not my cup of tea.  I think the G63 6X6 is a off road monster, that thing is pretty cool.

[El Kabong]

But that doesn't make any sense either. Bentley builds SEDANS that weigh as much as the Escalade. Don't think that the SUV will weigh much less.

If 188 is achievable for an LT4 Escalade, it will be a relatively civilized 188.

[ccap41]

At 100+mph it involves sooooo much aero it isn't even funny. The 'Slade can have 1000hp but if it's creating lift and feels floaty over 100mph it means nothing as it isn't secure or safe at all. Same for the others.

They will definitely need to do some aero playing to get it to go that fast. Things such as a "flag floor" and a good that allows air to flow out of it will go a long way. Which GM knows already because they made the ZL1 and Z/28 with similar hoods to what I'm talking about. Most cars create lift at extreme speeds but serious performance cars crest downforce securing the vehicle to the ground and giving the sense of security at extreme speeds.

For example, if I were to do 100mph in my Escape it would give me the feeling of floating and it would feel super super sketchy. But do the same in s z/28 and you'd feel as if you were going 30mph with the sense of grip that it gives due to aero(and tires and other performance bits but you know what I'm saying). Also my pervious Mach 1 did the same thing. It was not a comfortable feeling to go fast, so I never did.

Just saying it is more about just drag and power to go fast. Especially when meeting OEM requirements.

[David]

So the G63 G wagon weights in at 5622lbs with 536HP and 560lbs of torque in awd with Twin Turbo 5.5L V8. This equals 97.45hp per liter. Top speed 125mph.

 

http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicles/model/class-G/model-G63

 

Current Escalade is 5840lbs with 420HP and 460lbs of torque in normal awd with a NA 6.2L V8.

 

Current Escalade ESV is 6040lbs with 420HP and 460lbs of torque in normal awd.

 

I do not see a problem with taking the Escalade to a V edition with the Supercharged 6.2L V8 with 640HP and 630lbs of torque. This equals 103.22hp per liter. Easy to beat the performance of the AMG G Wagon.

 

Interesting to see the comparison of the escalade to the MB GL off cadillacs web site.

http://www.cadillac.com/crossover-suvs/2015-escalade/competitive-compare.html

[smk4565]

In November the AMG G65 goes on sale in the U.S.  That has 621 hp, 738 lb-ft, but the G-wagen isn't at all made for speed.  The GL would is closer in size to the Escalade, and the GL63 is faster than the G-wagen.  The G-wagen is actually smaller than a GLE or even an SRX.   When you look at the dimensions it is a pretty short vehicle and the wide of the average mid-size suv.

[FAPTurbo]

All the aforementioned vehicles are irrelevant against the Model X.

[El Kabong]

Nonsense. There are no charge ports in the woods.

[David]

All the aforementioned vehicles are irrelevant against the Model X.

The New Soccer Mom Mobile of the 21st century for the top 5%!

[FAPTurbo]

 

All the aforementioned vehicles are irrelevant against the Model X.

The New Soccer Mom Mobile of the 21st century for the top 5%!

 

So... like an Escalade then?

[ccap41]

Nonsense. There are no charge ports in the woods.

There aren' gas stations out there either..

[David]

 

 

All the aforementioned vehicles are irrelevant against the Model X.

The New Soccer Mom Mobile of the 21st century for the top 5%!

 

So... like an Escalade then?

 

Already own an ESV Platinum.

[El Kabong]

Fuel range for an SUV will, in theory, be an even larger issue in the backcountry than it is on the road, simply because off-roading is, well... off-road. You can always throw a jerry can or two in an Escalade. Good luck throwing extra batteries or a generator in the Tessie.

[David]

Fuel range for an SUV will, in theory, be an even larger issue in the backcountry than it is on the road, simply because off-roading is, well... off-road. You can always throw a jerry can or two in an Escalade. Good luck throwing extra batteries or a generator in the Tessie.

 

Whaaattttt you mean I cannot carry my spare auto quick charger pack like I do for my cell phone?

[ccap41]

Fuel range for an SUV will, in theory, be an even larger issue in the backcountry than it is on the road, simply because off-roading is, well... off-road. You can always throw a jerry can or two in an Escalade. Good luck throwing extra batteries or a generator in the Tessie.

I knew what you meant.. I was just jokin 'round.

 

Plus, at least there are cheaop gas stations in po-dunk middle of nowhere towns..I guess they might have electrical outlets as well but no "super charging" stations.

[David]

 

Fuel range for an SUV will, in theory, be an even larger issue in the backcountry than it is on the road, simply because off-roading is, well... off-road. You can always throw a jerry can or two in an Escalade. Good luck throwing extra batteries or a generator in the Tessie.

I knew what you meant.. I was just jokin 'round.

 

Plus, at least there are cheaop gas stations in po-dunk middle of nowhere towns..I guess they might have electrical outlets as well but no "super charging" stations.

 

You just have to bring your own portable charger that is being sold now by multiple companies.

 

http://delphi.com/manufacturers/auto/hevevproducts/charging-cordsets/charge-coupler-cordset/

 

http://www.plugincars.com/aerovironment-unveils-599-portable-charger-129326.html

 

So for those that have a small podunk town you can bring your own stepup charger and for the outback, just turn on the generator first.